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  1. lanzador49's Avatar
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    Default Too little too late

    So I'm reading about how everyone is waiting for BB10. January 30. January 30? Over a month after everybody buys each other an iphone or android?

    If I were an investor, I'd be rather upset. I'm a consumer and I'm upset. At some point, you can have the best product with the most functional features, but if you don't put the product in the hands of the consumer, what good does that do you?

    Corporate arrogance has its implications. I just wish it didn't trickle down to me.
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  2. southlander's Avatar
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    Default Too little too late

    If RIM had rushed it they'd be dead for certain and no one would benefit.

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  3. lanzador49's Avatar
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    Perhaps - but the need to do something timely has been some pretty formidable writing on the wall for at least a few years now. I run the Bold 9900...and it amazes me that there are OS releases all the time from carriers all over the world. We are way past the years of Kubrick's HAL and I just know that there are engineers who can put a concept on paper, develop it, test it, perfect it, and market it, timely. I think that Apple and Google showed us that. After all, wasn't RIM the one that catapulted the smart phone into mainstream? I vote for some better r&d for rim or it's rip
  4. aragone79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too little too late

    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    So I'm reading about how everyone is waiting for BB10. January 30. January 30? Over a month after everybody buys each other an iphone or android?

    If I were an investor, I'd be rather upset. I'm a consumer and I'm upset. At some point, you can have the best product with the most functional features, but if you don't put the product in the hands of the consumer, what good does that do you?

    Corporate arrogance has its implications. I just wish it didn't trickle down to me.
    Everyone has upset regarding this delay. But, this might be better for us as consumer and for RIM as BB brand owner. As customer, we can taste other product that already arrived and when blackberry 10 comes up, we, absolutely, can compare blackberry 10 with others and there will be no regret feeling when finally we choose blackberry 10 as our main smartphone.

    And for RIM, the delay gives them more time to find weaknesses and disadvantages of blackberry 10. And when it comes up, blackberry 10 can gain positive review and good feedback for blackberry user.

    Just keep positive for this delay.

    Still 73 days to go.
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  5. lanzador49's Avatar
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    It sure better absolutely DAZZLE! And if they're spending this much time on things, after having spent so much time on prior systems and products, it would be nice if their updates to the operating system to fix the radio, or tweak one convenience feature, or change some layout, were not like they've been for past models. Fine - take your time, RIM, but do it RIGHT.

    Possible mathematical equation... <r/d = rip 4 rim
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    I just know that there are engineers who can put a concept on paper, develop it, test it, perfect it, and market it, timely.
    I think you lost it at this point. No product is perfect, and if everything becomes perfect then there's no room for imagination. If we don't imagine and create products/things then we would we remain humans? If the old wired telephone was perfect, would we be holding cellular devices and even talking about them online?

    This thought is done with.

    /rant
    Children of tomorrow live in the tears that fall today
    Will the sunrise of tomorrow bring in peace in any way?
    Must the world live in the shadow of atomic fear?
    Can they win the fight for peace or will they disappear?

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  7. peter9477's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    So I'm reading about how everyone is waiting for BB10. January 30. January 30? Over a month after everybody buys each other an iphone or android?

    If I were an investor, I'd be rather upset. I'm a consumer and I'm upset. At some point, you can have the best product with the most functional features, but if you don't put the product in the hands of the consumer, what good does that do you?
    Apparently, and I'm not an expert (are you?) so I'm only able to regurgitate what others have said, the smartphone market in the holiday season doesn't really involve people running out and purchasing phones in a way that would have them competing with BB10. Something about only prepaid purchases during the holidays, or maybe it was no prepaid purchases. I didn't really pay attention, but from what RIM was saying, missing the holiday season wasn't really going to lose them that much. In return, they will apparently get much more exclusive attention from the carriers, who won't have five other companies with new phones at the same time, and their advertising will go way further because of less competition as well. Seems like a pretty reasonable strategy to me (as an investor, and a developer).

    As for "best product", well, clearly they don't have it ready yet, so it's sort of a moot point. They could not have shipped earlier, so wishing it were so is one thing, but ranting that they "should" have done it is just pointless. We all know they "should" have shipped a year ago, but the product wasn't ready then either. When it's ready, and "the best", then they will be delivering it to those consumers.
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  8. TomJasper's Avatar
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    Better R&D??? RIM is the top R&D spender in Canada and don't forget they tap into world famous University of Waterloo talent pool. This is an operating system (OS) built from new, one can hardly do that from a napkin sketch in a few weeks/months like you see when some other OS's just "tweek" every six months. Rome was not built in a day, hang tight my friend, time moves faster then we think, Jan.30.2013 will soon be here.
    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    Perhaps - but the need to do something timely has been some pretty formidable writing on the wall for at least a few years now. I run the Bold 9900...and it amazes me that there are OS releases all the time from carriers all over the world. We are way past the years of Kubrick's HAL and I just know that there are engineers who can put a concept on paper, develop it, test it, perfect it, and market it, timely. I think that Apple and Google showed us that. After all, wasn't RIM the one that catapulted the smart phone into mainstream? I vote for some better r&d for rim or it's rip
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    So I'm reading about how everyone is waiting for BB10. January 30. January 30? Over a month after everybody buys each other an iphone or android?

    If I were an investor, I'd be rather upset. I'm a consumer and I'm upset. At some point, you can have the best product with the most functional features, but if you don't put the product in the hands of the consumer, what good does that do you?

    Corporate arrogance has its implications. I just wish it didn't trickle down to me.
    Peter summed it up pretty well, but I'd add that by releasing in Q1 next year, it's a relatively slow time. RIM will have a much easier time getting media attention for its launch than they would now. Look at all the stuff that's launching this quarter: iPhone 5, Windows Phone 8, Windows 8, Surface (and other Win RT tablets), Wii U, etc, etc. There's a lot of chatter in the technosphere right now, and it would be hard to break through that.

    Also, by delaying sales until Q1, RIM gets a nice bump from pent-up demand, and it winds up looking better against the Q1 sales of its competitors.
    Knightcrawler and bungaboy like this.
  10. cgk
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    Default RE: Too little too late

    There is a big "if
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  11. BBMINI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    Corporate arrogance has its implications.
    Huh?? I don't see how a company taking extra time to make sure they introduce a worthwhile and totally revamped product, especially when doing so increases the risk to their corporate health and viability, can be seen as "corporate arrogance". What their delay implies to me is that RIM realized they had to completely renovate their system and market approach to remain a competitor in the smartphone industry. As southlander said, if they had decided the top priority was to rush new product to market (OS, handsets, whatever) regardless of the quality of the product, RIM would probably be dead by now. But instead they've kept people, customers, companies and the industry interestedly waiting to see what they reveal, which at least gives them a belated chance to rev things up again and confirm whether they've got what it takes to compete aggressively and creatively in order to win back market share.
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  12. lanzador49's Avatar
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    I hope that RIM does revolutionize the industry - I'm a big fan and have always been. My fear is that they're already perceived as being so far behind the mark that the catch-up game will be difficult, and with financing the way it is, the question becomes whether the company will remain viable enough to meet the expectations we all have. Kind of reminds me of the US Auto Industry in the 1970's as it stayed with behemoths and then tried to catch up with such slick models like the Ford Granada that looked "just like a Mercedes...!" AMC had the Matador and the Pacer...look how that ended up.

    Still I'll stick by my original comment - too little too late. Hope they prove me wrong!
  13. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    ...Still I'll stick by my original comment - too little too late. Hope they prove me wrong!
    You're entitled to your opinion, as long as you don't confuse it with prophesy. To be fair, there are many financial analysts who share your opinion.

    Personally, I'm more optimistic, but while I feel I have good reasons for my optimism, I don't have much more evidence to support my opinion than you do for yours.

    I'm content to let the market decide whether RIM's effort truly is "too little, too late" or not.
  14. peter9477's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    My fear is that they're already perceived as being so far behind the mark that the catch-up game will be difficult, and with financing the way it is, the question becomes whether the company will remain viable enough to meet the expectations we all have.
    It all depends on where you stand. Many do perceive them as being far behind the mark. Others of us perceive them as having almost completed a perfect end-run around everyone else, with the January 30 launch likely to make some jaws drop and some stomachs to get that sinking feeling in the offices of their competitors.

    This "... with financing the way it is"... what's that about? RIM has several billion in the bank. They don't exactly need to go begging the banks for capital any time soon, do they? And remember, they've almost completed a program to cut $1B in expenses, so that even though their revenue stream will have dropped yet again this quarter, nobody expects them to be in a really tight position financially any time soon.
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  15. Knightcrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    My fear is that they're already perceived as being so far behind the mark that the catch-up game will be difficult
    People need to understand that perceptions are not permenant, and subject to change very quickly. Rim itself is a prime example of that.

    5 years ago i could just as easly have said "i dont think apple's iphone will do well because people precieve BB's as the dominant smartphone, and apple has no experience in the smartphone game".

    Perceptions are meaningless, its marketing that counts.
  16. kbz1960's Avatar
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    Meh, every day there is how many people getting a new phone? There will the holidays next year if they survive.
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  17. jimpilot's Avatar
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    #17  

    Default Too little too late

    I think in the end it will all come down to the aps. If BB 10 has the apps most people use it will go, if not then it will fail.
  18. Roberto Felesie's Avatar
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    damn 69 days.... i want it right now :P
  19. edgephoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    I hope that RIM does revolutionize the industry - I'm a big fan and have always been. My fear is that they're already perceived as being so far behind the mark that the catch-up game will be difficult, and with financing the way it is, the question becomes whether the company will remain viable enough to meet the expectations we all have. Kind of reminds me of the US Auto Industry in the 1970's as it stayed with behemoths and then tried to catch up with such slick models like the Ford Granada that looked "just like a Mercedes...!" AMC had the Matador and the Pacer...look how that ended up.

    Still I'll stick by my original comment - too little too late. Hope they prove me wrong!
    Well it was not too long ago that Apple was in a similar downward spiral. Look how that ended up.

    Apple in the mid to late 90s was trying to get the next generation OS completed. It was called Copland. Delay after delay. Pieces of it ended up in their then current OS. Finally Apple bought NeXT computer and Steve Jobs came back to Apple and started trimming the fat and refocusing the company. NeXT OS was the basis of Mac OS X. Once they got their focus back they became a behemoth.

    I think BlackBerry is trying to refocus their efforts. If BB10 is a hit they will stave of bankruptcy but they have to follow that with another string of hits. I hope to see them survive as competition is good for everyone, especially the end user.

    I have a BB 9900 that is company issued. My first BlackBerry product. I have to say I am underwhelmed. It seems to have a lot of crashes and freezes randomly. The telephone portion is excellent, the best reception I have ever had with a cell phone. I rarely use anything other than email and calendar on it. I did buy a Playbook to use with bridge, which works excellent. Makes the BB experience really nice. If RIM is going to get it right the phone and Playbook have to run on the same OS. This is needed so I can buy apps that will work on either device. This is where Apple shines. If RIM wants to comes back from the near dead they need to make developers want to develop apps for their platform. When Apple was circling the drain they actually paid developers to develop software, they also partnered with Microsoft. Microsoft did it because they were to make a killing in stock and also by not letting their competitor go under they helped prevent more anti-trust lawsuits. RIM does not have a single competitor like Microsoft did. It will be to their benefit to make the stuff "just work" much like Apple. Stop making different OSes based on carrier.

    If BB10 is not going to be the same on phones and playbook RIM I will switch to Apple as soon as my company goes to bring your own device. We are going that way within the next year.
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  20. peter9477's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgephoto View Post
    If BB10 is not going to be the same on phones and playbook RIM I will switch to Apple as soon as my company goes to bring your own device.
    You know that it will be the same, right? (I'm a bit puzzled why you'd make that comment if you knew that, however, so I'm pointing it out just in case you did not.)
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  21. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    My fear is that they're already perceived as being so far behind the mark that the catch-up game will be difficult
    This is 'high tech'. The industry can change pretty quick and has shown in mobile that this is very, very possible.


    too little too late.
    This is such a cliche statement. How do you know it's "too little"? Have you used it? Where does it "fall short"? And as for "too late?" Too late for what? Most mobile devices still aren't smartphones and the smartphone market has nowhere near peaked yet. Even despite the endless press beating, RIM has more users now than they ever have in their entire existence. Why is it "all or nothing?"

    Look at how quickly the tides changed for RIM, for Palm, for HTC and others. Even in my wee social circle, i've seen a half dozen feverish iPhone users switch to the Samsung Galaxy in the last three months. These were committed "Apple can do no wrong!" people that are now sporting Samsungs. They got tired of the iPhone!

    The point is that I think anything can happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    So I'm reading about how everyone is waiting for BB10. January 30. January 30? Over a month after everybody buys each other an iphone or android?

    If I were an investor, I'd be rather upset. I'm a consumer and I'm upset. At some point, you can have the best product with the most functional features, but if you don't put the product in the hands of the consumer, what good does that do you?

    Corporate arrogance has its implications. I just wish it didn't trickle down to me.
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is the most unoriginal person on the face of the universe.

    " I don't usually post about rim, but when I do I title my posts with old borrowed everyone heard of sayings like too little too late. "
    "Instead of stay thirsty, keep trolling my friends."

    Yawn go buy your holiday itoy and we will see you in line for the NEW OS to be released in January. Make sure your in line on time or you may be too little too late for keeping up with leaders
  23. lanzador49's Avatar
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    To the last statement - unbelieveable. I made a rather poignant observation (let me know if you need help following along...). You can agree or disagree. Without knowing me, who I am, where I am, what I do, my race, religion, creed, or color, what is your problem? Sheesh! You have an issue with my comment, great...you have a problem with me as a person, well, that's a different story.

    I do know about corporate finance; I do know about marketing; I do know a bit about technology; I do know a bit about a lot of the things to which some of you self-proclaimed pundits seem to think I'm oblivious. But if you can't keep up with "the pack" in a very highly competitive technology world, you get left in the dust, and it's unfortunately pretty clear that RIM has not kept up with the pack. I do hope it does succeed with an amazing product - once again, I'm a huge fan. Over the past few years, however, the next best latest and greatest things that they've released are rather lackluster at best, and don't have the features that many consumers are craving. It's no accident that companies like Apple and Samsung who are vested in so many other technology aspects are doing well, while RIM with its limited product line and fairly antiquated (in the timeline of technology that is) guts and style is lagging behind.

    Some of you people sure do get yourselves worked up over this stuff...
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  24. southlander's Avatar
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    Default Too little too late

    Quote Originally Posted by lanzador49 View Post
    Perhaps - but the need to do something timely has been some pretty formidable writing on the wall for at least a few years now.
    Too late for timely. Just have to accept it and see how things go.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
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    No, wait, I thought I was the most unoriginal face on the person of the universe! Darn.
    We are all keenly aware of everything BlackBerry, but for most I fear, BlackBerry doesn't even appear on the radar. None of my many friends or family members has a BB, so I don't even bother using BBM. Would it be realistic to say that ownership will continue to trickle downwards in North America even after we are enjoying BB 10?
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