[Kevin Michaluk]

I know we're all looking forward to BlackBerry 10 for a LOT of reasons. It's a new platform and whole new foundation for BlackBerry to build on for years to come. At the same time, we're leaving the old BlackBerry OS behind. And as much as RIM needed to upgrade to a whole new platform, there's a lot in the old BlackBerry OS that we love. BlackBerry 10 shares no legacy code with the old BlackBerry OS. Not one line. It's all new. And being all new, that means there are also some things that are not going to carry over from the BBOS to BB10.

I'd like to get a post of the homepage summarizing the what we'll gain vs. what we'll be giving up. I thought it be fun to get the community it involved in this.... I'd love some quotes to work into the post from the forums here, especially when it comes to how you'll feel about certain things that are missing and what you're most looking forward to gaining. So let's the ball rolling....

Things We'll Gain in BlackBerry 10:
- Gesture-Based OS, designed ground up for touch!
- Much improved platform for apps!
- Easy Over the Air OS Updates
.....

Things We'll Lose in BlackBerry 10:
- trackpad, call/end/menu/back physical buttons
- keyboard shortcuts? (maybe? not totally sure on this)
- no third party themes :/
....

Ok, there's three of each to get the ball going. Keep at it!

[Snipperdo17]

I'm having a hard time thinking about what I love that won't be there for bb10. I am hoping for keyboard shortcuts but its not a deal breaker if not. I'm just looking forward to better quality apps and the ease of navigating around the os with gestures.

[Bla1ze]

Things We'll Gain in BlackBerry 10:
- Much improved gaming experience.
- Better browsing experience than ever before.
- Enhanced media / consumption experience
- Even further app integration.
- Better app support due to no longer being on an arcane OS.
- Faster boot / reboot times.
- LTE speeds

Things We'll Lose in BlackBerry 10:
- That frackin' spinny clock. :P

[southlander]

Gaining a modern app install process (ie. Fast installs without needing system restarts).

Gaining LTE phones.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[The Me]

We will lose easy copy/paste with the "alt + trackpad to copy" and "shift + trackpad" to paste.
We will lose convenience keys.
We will lose Solid heavy weight brick made devices with metal.
We will lose charging contacts.
We will lose an OS with 0 exploits to it (QNX (PlayBook OS has dingleberry)).
We will lose amazing battery life. (My Bold 9900 discharge rate hovers around 1.7% and 2.5% per hour)

We will gain a front facing camera.
We will gain a faster processor.

Edit: By the way, I'm looking SUPER FREAKING FORWARD TO BLACKBERRY 10, but I know it will not come near what BBOS7 has in terms of ease of use, especially shortcuts and using that trackpad to select, and pressing "b" on a page to go to the bottom and "t" to go back up (or in emails or whatever) and that it won't have the "r" to reload or "w" to switch tabs, or "g" to open homepage front or "k" to lock the phone on the homescreen or all my apps that are shortcutted "g" gtalk, "l" calendar, "b" browser, "u" calculator, "d" notepad, "s" search, "n" bbm, "m" messages..... All of those gone!

[Reubechs]

The gains will likely outweigh the losses from what I can determine, although I'm still trying to figure out why I'm a tad miffed over no themes on BB10 considering I own a 9930 and haven't really missed them.

[Kevin Michaluk]

Edit: By the way, I'm looking SUPER FREAKING FORWARD TO BLACKBERRY 10, but I know it will not come near what BBOS7 has in terms of ease of use, especially shortcuts and using that trackpad to select, and pressing "b" on a page to go to the bottom and "t" to go back up (or in emails or whatever) and that it won't have the "r" to reload or "w" to switch tabs, or "g" to open homepage front or "k" to lock the phone on the homescreen or all my apps that are shortcutted "g" gtalk, "l" calendar, "b" browser, "u" calculator, "d" notepad, "s" search, "n" bbm, "m" messages..... All of those gone!

I think what's interesting here is that what we'll lose on BB10 is "power user ease of use".... for a lot of "average" consumers, the BBOS was not a easy to use OS. People used it for the absolute basics, and never learned all the awesome ways to use it... including all the shortcuts mentioned above. If the features are not easily discoverable, they're not really there for a lot of users. So I think BB10 will be a lot easier to use for a lot of people, as there's only the one way to use it.. and it's all discoverable. I think what we're lacking will be an "advanced way to use it"... which is what we have now on BBOS.

[howarmat]

we gain, for better or worse im not sure...FLASH

[louzer]

I think what's interesting here is that what we'll lose on BB10 is "power user ease of use".... for a lot of "average" consumers, the BBOS was not a easy to use OS. People used it for the absolute basics, and never learned all the awesome ways to use it... including all the shortcuts mentioned above. If the features are not easily discoverable, they're not really there for a lot of users. So I think BB10 will be a lot easier to use for a lot of people, as there's only the one way to use it.. and it's all discoverable. I think what we're lacking will be an "advanced way to use it"... which is what we have now on BBOS.

I'm not sure that I agree. This might be the case at first, but the UI will mature over time. What we're losing is a menu system filled with menu shortcuts. BBOS is incredibly rich with these shortcuts only because they make navigation of the menu structure paradigm quick and efficient. Peek and Poke (or whatever it's called) is a completely new and different paradigm compared to traditional menu navigation. The major difference between the two is the addition of touch functionality baked into the OS (as compared to OS7 which basically just maps trackpad events to the touch screen). Keyboard shortcuts are great now because they're very quick and available with the single touch of a key. BB10's UI will handle shortcuts with a consistent thumb swipe physically moving you throughout an experience as opposed to having to guess that a certain key performs a certain function. Designed from the 'hub' out, I am getting the feeling that the BB10 experience will provide the efficiency we have grown used to. As the UI matures, pretty much everything we like about the current platform will exist in BB10. I don't think we're really losing the "power user ease of use" as much as just changing it to fit a new paradigm.

Also, please visit http://forums.crackberry.com/crackbe...llenge-735950/. We need help getting to 50K posts before the similar thread on Android Central. If you're not sure what to do there, you can probably get the general idea from this video:

[Kevin Michaluk]

Yeah, you're right. Peek and Flow are definitely duplicating "advanced type" user experience we love, but making it easy and accessible for all. So should be best of both worlds.

[louzer]

Yeah, you're right. Peek and Flow are definitely duplicating "advanced type" user experience we love, but making it easy and accessible for all. So should be best of both worlds.

The learning curve won't be as bad as people think. The Playbook has showed this. After all, how many Playbook owners who use OS7 devices have tried to swipe their OS 7 devices? Swipe is the key - especially on the BB10 keyboard.

[dkonigs]

I think what we'll lose is the depth of functionality on BBOS, which only exists because it has evolved over so many years. When you look at what's available on the PlayBook (as in settings/options/features/etc), its like the kiddie pool versus the deep end on BBOS. Since its new, BB10 is likely to just be the shallow end of the adult pool. Hopefully it'll grow over time. This covers both the featuresets/configurability of the system itself, and what APIs are available for 3rd party apps to integrate with it.

However, what we'll gain is a truly modern OS with all the trimmings. Pretty much everything that actually annoys us in BBOS will be gone in BB10. This includes, but is not limited to:
- A shared JVM in which all the apps compete for resources
- That annoying spinning clock (the JVM's garbage collector running)
- The need to reboot on app updates (since they're not cleanly separated from each other)
- Leaks requiring regular battery pulls (likely caused by something here too)
- Annoying bugs caused by every place RIM had to poke a hole in the JVM for performance (WebKit, SQLite, Video playback, and everywhere Java apps try to integrate with these)
- The phone's filesystem going *poof* every time you plug it into a PC (which also causes problems with apps that depend on it)
- The nightmare of trying to reliably use the Internet from within apps (just ask any dev about WAP2 vs CarrierTCP vs BIS/BES vs WiFi)
- Developers having to support ancient versions of BBOS to capture all the users, because upgrades are too hard for average people (or held back by carriers, or require new device purchases)

Sorry if I got a bit technical. I am a developer.

[sleepngbear]

Unfortunately, I have no idea of exactly what we'll lose. As I've noted in a few other threads, I use my phone first and foremost as a communications device. Web browsing has slowly worked its way up the list, but it's still a pretty distant second to voice and text-based communications as a whole. That being said, I am curious as to how well BB10 will address those fundamental needs for me without the signature BlackBerry interface tools (specifically the trackpad).

I have no doubt that the platform itself will provide the means to deliver some features and capabilities that will have the competition playing catch-up, which should be great for RIM. But for me personally, I still need the something that has me using a BB now instead of something -- anything -- else. Will BB10 still provide that?

Regardless of that, BB10 should also bring a more consistent user experience between BB phones and the PlayBook. In addition to giving the tablet OS another likely facelift, this will be a good thing for consumers in establishing more of a brand identity. And hopefully, if BB10 does gain traction, it will bring a little more attention to the PlayBook, along with all the love that goes with it.

[mikeplus1]

I think what's interesting here is that what we'll lose on BB10 is "power user ease of use".... for a lot of "average" consumers, the BBOS was not a easy to use OS. People used it for the absolute basics, and never learned all the awesome ways to use it... including all the shortcuts mentioned above. If the features are not easily discoverable, they're not really there for a lot of users. So I think BB10 will be a lot easier to use for a lot of people, as there's only the one way to use it.. and it's all discoverable. I think what we're lacking will be an "advanced way to use it"... which is what we have now on BBOS.

Louzer said it better than I probably could have below, but I was thinking like going from being a power user in DOS to Windows and many thought they would become point and click zombies, maybe some did.

I'm not sure that I agree. This might be the case at first, but the UI will mature over time. What we're losing is a menu system filled with menu shortcuts. BBOS is incredibly rich with these shortcuts only because they make navigation of the menu structure paradigm quick and efficient. Peek and Poke (or whatever it's called) is a completely new and different paradigm compared to traditional menu navigation. The major difference between the two is the addition of touch functionality baked into the OS (as compared to OS7 which basically just maps trackpad events to the touch screen). Keyboard shortcuts are great now because they're very quick and available with the single touch of a key. BB10's UI will handle shortcuts with a consistent thumb swipe physically moving you throughout an experience as opposed to having to guess that a certain key performs a certain function. Designed from the 'hub' out, I am getting the feeling that the BB10 experience will provide the efficiency we have grown used to. As the UI matures, pretty much everything we like about the current platform will exist in BB10. I don't think we're really losing the "power user ease of use" as much as just changing it to fit a new paradigm.

I hope the UI matures very quickly and I had hoped for some customization abilities, but not sure now.

Also, please visit http://forums.crackberry.com/crackbe...llenge-735950/. We need help getting to 50K posts before the similar thread on Android Central. If you're not sure what to do there, you can probably get the general idea from this video:

^THIS^

The learning curve won't be as bad as people think. The Playbook has showed this. After all, how many Playbook owners who use OS7 devices have tried to swipe their OS 7 devices? Swipe is the key - especially on the BB10 keyboard.

I have never tried to swipe my OS7 screen, my laptop screen or my PC screen, but do swipe my PlayBook screen constantly.

I think what we'll lose is the depth of functionality on BBOS, which only exists because it has evolved over so many years. When you look at what's available on the PlayBook (as in settings/options/features/etc), its like the kiddie pool versus the deep end on BBOS. Since its new, BB10 is likely to just be the shallow end of the adult pool. Hopefully it'll grow over time. This covers both the featuresets/configurability of the system itself, and what APIs are available for 3rd party apps to integrate with it.

However, what we'll gain is a truly modern OS with all the trimmings. Pretty much everything that actually annoys us in BBOS will be gone in BB10. This includes, but is not limited to:
- A shared JVM in which all the apps compete for resources
- That annoying spinning clock (the JVM's garbage collector running)
- The need to reboot on app updates (since they're not cleanly separated from each other)
- Leaks requiring regular battery pulls (likely caused by something here too)
- Annoying bugs caused by every place RIM had to poke a hole in the JVM for performance (WebKit, SQLite, Video playback, and everywhere Java apps try to integrate with these)
- The phone's filesystem going *poof* every time you plug it into a PC (which also causes problems with apps that depend on it)
- The nightmare of trying to reliably use the Internet from within apps (just ask any dev about WAP2 vs CarrierTCP vs BIS/BES vs WiFi)
- Developers having to support ancient versions of BBOS to capture all the users, because upgrades are too hard for average people (or held back by carriers, or require new device purchases)

Sorry if I got a bit technical. I am a developer.

Not too technical at all, I agree completely and I am going to miss a lot of things, but NOT the spinning clock!

Unfortunately, I have no idea of exactly what we'll lose. As I've noted in a few other threads, I use my phone first and foremost as a communications device. Web browsing has slowly worked its way up the list, but it's still a pretty distant second to voice and text-based communications as a whole. That being said, I am curious as to how well BB10 will address those fundamental needs for me without the signature BlackBerry interface tools (specifically the trackpad).

I have no doubt that the platform itself will provide the means to deliver some features and capabilities that will have the competition playing catch-up, which should be great for RIM. But for me personally, I still need the something that has me using a BB now instead of something -- anything -- else. Will BB10 still provide that?

Regardless of that, BB10 should also bring a more consistent user experience between BB phones and the PlayBook. In addition to giving the tablet OS another likely facelift, this will be a good thing for consumers in establishing more of a brand identity. And hopefully, if BB10 does gain traction, it will bring a little more attention to the PlayBook, along with all the love that goes with it.

I am pretty sure that we will gain time travel with BB10, so really gonna be worth it in my opinion.

[Qaxl]

Things We'll Gain in BlackBerry 10:
- Freshness in the world of smartphones
- Front Facing Camera
- Worlds Best Touch Typing Experience
- APPLICATIONS
- Large Screens
- Ugly Icons
- Street Cred
- Not having to carry another phone just for apps
- Thinness
- That feeling that Blackberry is Awesome again !

Things We'll Lose in BlackBerry 10:
- Simplicity
- Simple Menu System ( Playbook has Best, OS 5 has Second Best, OS 6 is my ongoing Nightmare with Options Menu )
- Side Swipe Bezel Gesture for Super Amazing App Switching ala Playbook
- Dedicated Lock and Mute Buttons
- Cheap and Cheerful Devices ( like the curve series ) currently it seems BB10 devices are gonna cost an arm and a leg
- Dock Charger ( Come on RIM gimme a dock with HDMI out, Data over USB, Magnetic Charger, and Stereo Audio Output )
- There should Never be a Limit on the number of Running Apps

Not Sure About:
- Where are my SUPER APPS ??
- Bedside Mode
- Standard Sim Size
- Dedicated Camera Button with Half Press for Auto Focus
- Google Maps ( Plz be there i miss u on Playbook, and u r stuck in the 19th century on my BB Phone )
- Super Detailed Profile Settings, with Option of making Custom Profiles
- BB10 has shown us some terrible Icon design
- Start Dialling a Number, without Opening any "Dialer or Phone App"
- Screen Susceptible to Shattering like the iPhone 4 ?
- Will a Keyboard Device EVER be Flagship again ?

Personally i think BB10 will eventually be the downfall of Physical Keyboards, maybe we will still get a few devices in 2013, 2014, but i dont expect any hardware keyboard device by 2015 ( i hope and i wish that im wrong on this one )

[Reubechs]

Unfortunately, I have no idea of exactly what we'll lose. As I've noted in a few other threads, I use my phone first and foremost as a communications device. Web browsing has slowly worked its way up the list, but it's still a pretty distant second to voice and text-based communications as a whole. That being said, I am curious as to how well BB10 will address those fundamental needs for me without the signature BlackBerry interface tools (specifically the trackpad).

I have no doubt that the platform itself will provide the means to deliver some features and capabilities that will have the competition playing catch-up, which should be great for RIM. But for me personally, I still need the something that has me using a BB now instead of something -- anything -- else. Will BB10 still provide that?

Regardless of that, BB10 should also bring a more consistent user experience between BB phones and the PlayBook. In addition to giving the tablet OS another likely facelift, this will be a good thing for consumers in establishing more of a brand identity. And hopefully, if BB10 does gain traction, it will bring a little more attention to the PlayBook, along with all the love that goes with it.

I had a 9550, after using a keyboard 'Berry. My two biggest gripes were not being able to use a trackpad, especially in apps, and not being able to navigate the menu with the keyboard. Going back to a keyboard was akin to a struggling swimmer finally reaching solid ground. Web pages could zoom, apps not so much. Also, the endless scrolling. Quicklaunch went far to alleviate the problem areas, with being able to round out the BB menu as well as provide ease of use lacking without the physical keyboard and trackpad. So my hope is that if one person can provide that much functionality and improve the user experience with just a single app, an entire corporation with a bent to staying in business shouldn't have that much trouble with an entire OS.

It should be noted that not only do I not own a Playbook, I've never set eyes on one either. So I'm not familiar with the in's and out's of the OS, nor how it relates to BB10, aside from what I've seen here on CB.

[Reubechs]

Things We'll Gain in BlackBerry 10:
- Freshness in the world of smartphones
- Front Facing Camera
- Worlds Best Touch Typing Experience
- APPLICATIONS
- Large Screens
- Ugly Icons
- Street Cred
- Not having to carry another phone just for apps
- Thinness
- That feeling that Blackberry is Awesome again !

Things We'll Lose in BlackBerry 10:
- Simplicity
- Simple Menu System ( Playbook has Best, OS 5 has Second Best, OS 6 is my ongoing Nightmare with Options Menu )
- Side Swipe Bezel Gesture for Super Amazing App Switching ala Playbook
- Dedicated Lock and Mute Buttons
- Cheap and Cheerful Devices ( like the curve series ) currently it seems BB10 devices are gonna cost an arm and a leg
- Dock Charger ( Come on RIM gimme a dock with HDMI out, Data over USB, Magnetic Charger, and Stereo Audio Output )
- There should Never be a Limit on the number of Running Apps

Not Sure About:
- Where are my SUPER APPS ??
- Bedside Mode
- Standard Sim Size
- Dedicated Camera Button with Half Press for Auto Focus
- Google Maps ( Plz be there i miss u on Playbook, and u r stuck in the 19th century on my BB Phone )
- Super Detailed Profile Settings, with Option of making Custom Profiles
- BB10 has shown us some terrible Icon design
- Start Dialling a Number, without Opening any "Dialer or Phone App"
- Screen Susceptible to Shattering like the iPhone 4 ?
- Will a Keyboard Device EVER be Flagship again ?

Personally i think BB10 will eventually be the downfall of Physical Keyboards, maybe we will still get a few devices in 2013, 2014, but i dont expect any hardware keyboard device by 2015 ( i hope and i wish that im wrong on this one )

I've seen worse icons, and there's ALWAYS a limit to what's running on any system, be it a smartphone or a supercomputer. I hope keyboards don't die, but that all depends on how well typing on glass gets. I've used other phones and not had much trouble at all, but the one I used the most reaffirmed my opinion that the keyboard needs to stay. Besides, the keyboard BlackBerry is iconic - I can see RIM keeping it around "just because".

Although, that might also be what could be termed as "the old image", and this is the sunset of the keyboard era.

[kbz1960]

We'll gain a BB does that also and yes that is also available for bb.

What we lose is, you're still using a pos bb.

[Houshinto]

Not really a feature par se, but I'm hoping that with BB10, what's lost is the idea Blackberry's are dinosaurs that cannot do jack compared to the other "futuristic" smartphones on the market.

Precision scrolling with the trackpad I'll miss a lot.

[Qaxl]

Ive seen "worse Icons" too, doesn't make what we have seen so far any better, there is a number of talented designers out there, I'm sure RIM can pull off Great Icons, if they tried. The icons are the least of my worries, i know rim can make great icons, i know its still in Build Phase and there is lots RIM has yet to show us.

"there's ALWAYS a limit to what's running on any system, be it a smartphone or a supercomputer"
True that, but do they need to enforce it with software code ? who came up with the number 8? why is 6 too less or 10 too many ? why not let the hardware decide what its capable of ? I don't think RIM needs to intervene here.

[Reubechs]

Ive seen "worse Icons" too, doesn't make what we have seen so far any better, there is a number of talented designers out there, I'm sure RIM can pull off Great Icons, if they tried. The icons are the least of my worries, i know rim can make great icons, i know its still in Build Phase and there is lots RIM has yet to show us. "there's ALWAYS a limit to what's running on any system, be it a smartphone or a supercomputer"True that, but do they need to enforce it with software code ? who came up with the number 8? why is 6 too less or 10 too many ? why not let the hardware decide what its capable of ? I don't think RIM needs to intervene here.

Not sure what that means, I've never had anything tell me I had a finite limit to what's running. Usually I've found out by maxing out on memory and subsequently crash. Always on purpose, by the way.

[Qaxl]

Not sure what that means, I've never had anything tell me I had a finite limit to what's running.

Well RIM decided to put a limit on the number of running apps, that number is 8, if u decide a launch a ninth app, least recent used app will be closed to make way for the new app, and you will be back to eight apps.
I think Rim sees this as a way of giving users a "better experience" seeing that they wont get to max out memory and crash their phones even if they tried.
Maybe 8 is all we need but MAYBE i want to run 9 apps or 14.

[h20work]

We'll lose a convenience key....

And if pbos is any indication, we'll also lose a logical file structure the has folder and subfolder support.

Why has no one mentioned the email experience on bb10 yet????? Peak, flow, swipe, slide, whatever..... Can you easily add attachments?

[dkonigs]

And if pbos is any indication, we'll also lose a logical file structure the has folder and subfolder support.

Thankfully, PBOS is not a meaningful indication here. The file picker components are already in the BB10 API, and they most definitely pay attention to folder structure (thank goodness).

[kritchie]

I'm most concerned about losing deep enterprise integration. I don't know to what extent some of the advanced features in BB OS7 will be lost. If enterprise integration turns out to be just on par with iOS and Android, then what's the point? My list of concerns are in the following post. Perhaps some of you with dev devices could confirm or deny existence in BB10.

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...bb-os7-734696/