[Sith_Apprentice]

That would be no different than what RIM is going through now. Even Microsoft is floundering (again) in the phone market. That partnership would undoubtedly benefit Microsoft more than RIM.

QNX is already used in many many places around the world. It has an established base, the problem is no one knows it is there. RIM, IF they do it right (big IF unfortunately), can make BBs completely "necessary" to our daily lives again. How many cars have QNX integrated? How great would it be to have everything securely link between your car and your BB? How about the in dash system being replaced with a playbook? think of the possibilities.

[Sith_Apprentice]

Yet is key, Not like RIM could throw a switch and Be WP7, so the time it would take to migrate they most likely will have the tools in place to be managed

Very true, however have you ever compared the MDM solutions? BES out does EVERYTHING on the market in terms of IT security. Its not even close. Last count on BB7 devices you have over 600 options on what to control, plus scripting your own. Thats out of the box on BES 5.0.3. Android and iOS MDM solutions arent anywhere near that, and likely wont be for quite some time. WP7 will be as far behind as RIM is in the app game when it comes out. This is RIM's last bastion of support, the enterprise security market. They can not, in any way, jeopardize that.

[tmelon]

I'm not buying whatever this RIM rep is saying. With the huge delays of PlayBook OS 2.0 they are obviously having problems getting things to work. What the guy told BGR may be a bit of an exaggeration, but it's not "Simply false".

[_StephenBB81]

That would be no different than what RIM is going through now. Even Microsoft is floundering (again) in the phone market. That partnership would undoubtedly benefit Microsoft more than RIM.

QNX is already used in many many places around the world. It has an established base, the problem is no one knows it is there. RIM, IF they do it right (big IF unfortunately), can make BBs completely "necessary" to our daily lives again. How many cars have QNX integrated? How great would it be to have everything securely link between your car and your BB? How about the in dash system being replaced with a playbook? think of the possibilities.

I've extensively thought of the possibilities!


BES enabled BlackBerry's that Bridge into Fleet Cars, such as Taxi's, repair trucks, transport trucks, even rental cars, having all the details transmitted back for expense reports, maintenance logs, and location tracking, rerouting etc.

Your BlackBerry becomes your Key with NFC on the Fleet cars, your permissions are controlled so if your permitted driving limit is 50km/h the cars permission set is done, next person gets in, they can do 80km/h done, or control via location based systems!

The 1000's of additional control moduels that could be built into BES with bridge into QNX enabled hardware is just scratching the controlled surface, it's an IT managers wet dream.


What Microsoft needs to do is say Windows Phone is dead, and throw their support behind RIM RIM gets MS Office for the BlackBerry, and Tablet, Microsoft creates tools for Tablet/PC integration and charges RIM a royalty, of say $10 device, Microsoft gets back to focusing on the PC market without making it a tablet/PC hybrid, they focus on securing Office as the ONLY Office application for Enterprise use, and they take the fight to Google with Server/Ad/search revenue, Microsoft is fighting too many fights, and Mobile is their least likely fight to Win, with Microsoft backing that puts RIM very much back in the fight

[Sith_Apprentice]

That is the only thing that would benefit this. Windows on handheld devices has failed several times now. It has never been a great alternative to anything. If Microsoft put its support (and more importantly cash) behind RIM, things would change in a BIG way. RIM could kill Docs to Go and blow past everything on the mobile enterprise market

[_StephenBB81]

That is the only thing that would benefit this. Windows on handheld devices has failed several times now. It has never been a great alternative to anything. If Microsoft put its support (and more importantly cash) behind RIM, things would change in a BIG way. RIM could kill Docs to Go and blow past everything on the mobile enterprise market

Documents to go Remains the FREE Office app for RIM phones, but inside the App the option to Purchase MS Office for BlackBerry exists,

Doc2Go is offered on Multiple Platforms, RIM should leverage it on those platforms and in the upgrade options for "Premium" it says "BlackBerry Users upgrade to MS Office for BlackBerry $XX, Android users upgrade to Doc2Go Premium $XX, iOS users upgrade to iDoc2Go Premium $XX"
All prices the same, but the people who are using Docs2Go Premium on other devices know they could get better if they went to BlackBerry!

[Sith_Apprentice]

Or offer only the premium version on other devices. Personally DTG is a glorified reader. The editing is terrible on it. There is no reason you need an extremely limited "edit" functionality for free. Think of the millions of people on iOS and Android that would have to purchase it.

[app_Developer]

That would be no different than what RIM is going through now. Even Microsoft is floundering (again) in the phone market. That partnership would undoubtedly benefit Microsoft more than RIM.

QNX is already used in many many places around the world. It has an established base, the problem is no one knows it is there. RIM, IF they do it right (big IF unfortunately), can make BBs completely "necessary" to our daily lives again. How many cars have QNX integrated? How great would it be to have everything securely link between your car and your BB? How about the in dash system being replaced with a playbook? think of the possibilities.

Again, QNX is just a kernel. That's all it is. RIM got nothing more than that. So RIM started at exactly the same point where Android started before the Android team had even written a single line of code. Instead of Linux, they chose QNX. That's it.

Android is built on the Linux kernel. So was WebOS and MeeGo. Does that mean that Android apps somehow have some advantage in connecting to other devices that also happen to use the Linux kernel? Of course not. BMW now allows iPhone apps to display their UI on the in-dash display and use the iDrive input. The fact that the BMW system uses a different kernel than iOS has nothing to do with the work involved in that integration. For all I know, the BMW system may in fact be based on QNX. It doesn't matter.

You can't really compare QNX (a foundation) against something like WP7 (a complete building in comparison).

What concerns people is that when RIM bought QNX, they started at square one, just like MeeGo, WebOS, and Android teams when they started on their first day. And in fact *behind* where the iPhone team started when they got going because at least they had all of OS X and NeXTstep to pick from.

So if RIM had not chosen a kernel, but rather a complete OS stack (like WP7 or Android or WebOS), then at least they would be further along.

But I understand the business issues you raise. But from a development perspective, they put themselves in a quite a hole by starting their building from the foundation, when everyone else is busy remodeling the interior of their completed buildings.

[Rickroller]

This is why it's blatantly obvious that the delay is all due to BB10 not being ready. Anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.

RIM is NOT in a position where they can afford a delay of a true next-gen release just because they're being picky with chipsets. They need this released YESTERDAY.

We'll see non-LTE chips running BB10 (chips that are currently avaliable), and then it'll be even more clear that the delay was never about the hardware.

+1. It makes absolutely no sense to me to even release a non-LTE version if your just going to sit on it and wait for an LTE chip. You're just wasting time and potential sales. To say you're going to be missing out on 40% of potential LTE sales isn't right..because if people want to wait on the LTE version, they will. If they don't, they won't. You can't lose sales you didnt' have (unless you sit on something and don't release it). If people are waiting for the LTE version, they will wait or buy something different. NOT offering a new BB10 phone with non-LTE capabilityin the meantime is ludicrous imo.(but it's RIM..so hey)

[Thunderbuck]

This is why it's blatantly obvious that the delay is all due to BB10 not being ready. Anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.

RIM is NOT in a position where they can afford a delay of a true next-gen release just because they're being picky with chipsets. They need this released YESTERDAY.

We'll see non-LTE chips running BB10 (chips that are currently avaliable), and then it'll be even more clear that the delay was never about the hardware.

A late 2012 release of a product that is really no better than what the competition had out for a couple years already (but with far fewer apps) isn't going to save them.
By moving to WP7 OS they'll at least have a more tested/trusted OS with a larger assortment of apps and and a larger developer community that's already familiar with the fantastic development tools of Windows.

You're making this sound very black-and-white. The question isn't "would BB10 be ready for release in Q1?", it's "would BB10 be ready ENOUGH for release in Q1?"

I suspect they could make their original release target, perhaps with slippage to Q2. By consolidating all the engineering efforts on one chipset, though, they buy themselves some time, simplify the effort considerably, give BB7 developers more time to plan their migrations, and, most importantly, buy themselves some breathing room to pick up and regroup.

My take is that they decided to release a solid product late instead of a flawed product on time. I'm good with that.

[_StephenBB81]

+1. It makes absolutely no sense to me to even release a non-LTE version if your just going to sit on it and wait for an LTE chip. You're just wasting time and potential sales. To say you're going to be missing out on 40% of potential LTE sales isn't right..because if people want to wait on the LTE version, they will. If they don't, they won't. You can't lose sales you didnt' have (unless you sit on something and don't release it). If people are waiting for the LTE version, they will wait or buy something different. NOT offering a new BB10 phone with non-LTE capabilityin the meantime is ludicrous imo.(but it's RIM..so hey)

40% of the potential sales is Verizons US Market share, Verzion is not taking any NON LTE Smartphones in 2012, well at least not taking any NON LTE WP7 phones so it is safe to assume they wont take RIM phones either.

PLUS the BBX Launch is for the US Market where it will be rated against Android devices with LTE, not having LTE will just be another point brought against it, the loss of potential sales by delay is less than the loss of sales by continuous bad reviews, they must minimize those bad reviews

The reasons to bring NON LTE out at a later date are for the NON LTE Markets such as the UK which has no short term plans for LTE deplayment, so Bringing out lower cost models after makes perfect sense, hello Curve model.

[_StephenBB81]

Again, QNX is just a kernel. That's all it is. RIM got nothing more than that. So RIM started at exactly the same point where Android started before the Android team had even written a single line of code. Instead of Linux, they chose QNX. That's it.

Android is built on the Linux kernel. So was WebOS and MeeGo. Does that mean that Android apps somehow have some advantage in connecting to other devices that also happen to use the Linux kernel? Of course not. BMW now allows iPhone apps to display their UI on the in-dash display and use the iDrive input. The fact that the BMW system uses a different kernel than iOS has nothing to do with the work involved in that integration. For all I know, the BMW system may in fact be based on QNX. It doesn't matter.

You can't really compare QNX (a foundation) against something like WP7 (a complete building in comparison).

What concerns people is that when RIM bought QNX, they started at square one, just like MeeGo, WebOS, and Android teams when they started on their first day. And in fact *behind* where the iPhone team started when they got going because at least they had all of OS X and NeXTstep to pick from.

So if RIM had not chosen a kernel, but rather a complete OS stack (like WP7 or Android or WebOS), then at least they would be further along.

But I understand the business issues you raise. But from a development perspective, they put themselves in a quite a hole by starting their building from the foundation, when everyone else is busy remodeling the interior of their completed buildings.

RIM's obsession with control is why they went from the ground up, IF this is to save their company they need it fully integrated into the system and the culture, they need a BlackBerry UI evolved to make existing Blackberry users happy, and bring non blackberry users over. as pretty as WebOS was, it wasn't the UI I would have wanted to be using every day, actually as it stands I'm not as much of a fan of the PlayBook UI as I am with OS7 UI, so we'll see how that goes.

from an Enterprise security standpoint buying QNX and bringing it in, and building from the ground up exactly what they want was smarter than bringing another package in and trying to hack it into their infrastructure. mind you! that said their method is taking a long time, AND they failed to deliver on numerous occasions in 2011 making the need for speed even more important, it's almost a catch 22 for them

[darkmanx2g]

Its so sad. Every mobile nations podcast Kevin gets ridiculed even by Derek the webos guy cause of RIMs delays and bad news after bad news. We all thought Kevin was gonna have a bbx phone on hand at devcon. LOL RIM is indeed on edge and another blunder will put the nail on the coffin for RIM.

[app_Developer]

mind you! that said their method is taking a long time, AND they failed to deliver on numerous occasions in 2011 making the need for speed even more important, it's almost a catch 22 for them

Well, if they do pull it off, I will be extremely impressed. And the RIM developers and managers will deserve a LOT of credit.

If they catch up, from a standing start, to what ICS and iOS5 are now, that development team will get some very interesting job offers from other companies! That's like showing up for a marathon an hour late, and starting at the same start line as everyone else, and *still* catching the leaders by the 2 hour mark. Impressive.

[CDM76]

another crock! I've got a bionic and it gets better life (and FAR MORE USE) than my storm. I have 4G 24/7. Next question...

And the Storm is HOW old ? thats like comparing an ipod to the old cassette based sony walkman !!!

[sosumi11]

Please though
I want to know how RIM is looking out for it's best interest pushing a product out missing 40% of it's potential customers, and allowing that 40% to be heavily leveraged against the RIM platform with what ever Android flavour of the month is out?

is it not in RIM's best interest to have every carrier at the same time saying "Buy BlackBerry" or would it be in their best interest to have the second largest Carrier say "don't buy that blackberry let us show you it's short comings stay with verizon"


RIM's best interest is distribution channels and marketing support

They are not apple, they don't have their own distribution network

As I said the logic is sound, but it doesn't stop the bleeding TODAY.

RIM will bleed to death waiting for a chipset that won't exist till mid 2012. RIM needs to show the world (outside of Verizon) that they are still a player and that their QNX platform is rock solid.

That is, of course, unless there is another reason for the delay...

The distribution channel doesn't matter if the product is good enough to cause a demand.

Build it and they will come.

[uncltom]

What is really funny to me is how many Sprint customers were sold WiMax 4G phones here in Spokane, WA when it hasnt been nor ever will be rolled out to our area now that Sprint went LTE. It's not a bad move for Sprint but sucks for everyone that got a Wimax phone on a 2 year deal and paid $10 per month for a service that will never exist.

That's when it sucks to be on a contract!

[_StephenBB81]

As I said the logic is sound, but it doesn't stop the bleeding TODAY.

RIM will bleed to death waiting for a chipset that won't exist till mid 2012. RIM needs to show the world (outside of Verizon) that they are still a player and that their QNX platform is rock solid.

That is, of course, unless there is another reason for the delay...

The distribution channel doesn't matter if the product is good enough to cause a demand.

Build it and they will come.

Soo wrong!

There are 1000's of products that die every year that are amazing, but die because they don't have the distribution channels to get them out, nor the advertising to justify the price of the invention

the reason Verizon is a key is that verizon WILL push Android, and Will have a lower cost phone with the same SPECS as the BBX devices launched without LTE,

RIM's bleed in the US will continue for a few more months, but it is better to solidify a long term plan with a good market strategy that stops the bleeding and starts a transfusion that to start a transfusion from 1 hole, but continue to bleed for another hole

[melb_me]

Your image is everything. Take note RIM. Hopefully someone has clued them in on that. Anyhow their new phone simply has to be the best phone on the market when it is launched. Why? Because that will fix their IMAGE.
"Look they still can make the world's best phone" "Rim rocks" and other things that go with being the best. It's their only hope of survival at this point.
IMHO......QNX can do that. Sure it's taking a long time to come out but there ain't nothing like having the best operating system....and it has to be REVIEWED that way. It can't have a blemish like for example coming out on G3 only ...I mean WTF!

[BBBrooklynFAN]

Your image is everything. Take note RIM. Hopefully someone has clued them in on that. Anyhow their new phone simply has to be the best phone on the market when it is launched. Why? Because that will fix their IMAGE.
"Look they still can make the world's best phone" "Rim rocks" and other things that go with being the best. It's their only hope of survival at this point.
IMHO......QNX can do that. Sure it's taking a long time to come out but there ain't nothing like having the best operating system....and it has to be REVIEWED that way. It can't have a blemish like for example coming out on G3 only ...I mean WTF!

Sorry, QNX can't do that.

It's an operating system. The only thing consumers care about an OS is how many programs it can run or if it can run some specific programs. You don't buy a Toshiba or Dell laptop because of the operating system. Windows won over Apple back in the day primarily because so many more programs were available on PC but not on Apple. Unless an OS is notoriously bad like the vista, people don't care. The best OS is an OS that functions as an afterthought.

In 12 months, the software environment for QNX is going to be even more behind the top two than it is now. An emulator is not going to make up the difference.

[sosumi11]

Soo wrong!

There are 1000's of products that die every year that are amazing, but die because they don't have the distribution channels to get them out, nor the advertising to justify the price of the invention

Name one truly amazing product that did not get recognition for what it is and died. With the internet, great ideas go viral in mere days.

the reason Verizon is a key is that verizon WILL push Android, and Will have a lower cost phone with the same SPECS as the BBX devices launched without LTE,

RIM's bleed in the US will continue for a few more months, but it is better to solidify a long term plan with a good market strategy that stops the bleeding and starts a transfusion that to start a transfusion from 1 hole, but continue to bleed for another hole

We are going in circles.

LTE is NOT RIM's savior. Developer support is. And the only way to get developer support is to get the product out.

This is tech.

Tech is moving at 100 mph and RIM is stuck in neutral. Now RIM is blaming the chip makers for their ineptness.

RIM did the right thing by developing powerful software first then wait for the hardware to catch up, but they are not supposed to announce it then sit on their hands while waiting (which they say they are).

[_StephenBB81]

We are going in circles.

LTE is NOT RIM's savior. Developer support is. And the only way to get developer support is to get the product out.

This is tech.

Tech is moving at 100 mph and RIM is stuck in neutral. Now RIM is blaming the chip makers for their ineptness.

RIM did the right thing by developing powerful software first then wait for the hardware to catch up, but they are not supposed to announce it then sit on their hands while waiting (which they say they are).

I agree FULLY that LTE is not the savior, and that we are going in circles

my Argument FULLY is based on Market penetration and market perception of the new Platform, RIM needs as many allies as possible to get Market penetration, and increase market perception to gain mindshare of App developers.

Verizon is not accepting any WP7 Phones in 2012 without LTE, so the assumption is RIM also must have LTE to be accepted by Verizon,
and as I said many times, RIM needs partners, and they need a united front for the launch of BBX, so they Need to have what Verizon will take, which in this case is LTE, but if RIM were to release an LTE device that required the hacking and alterations that the Android LTE devices need to get 11.5h of use (North American business day) then they would be a non starter device.

I DO agree that it is support is important, AND IF the major set back is hardware they best have some good plans for the ecosystem while they are waiting on the hardware

[_StephenBB81]

Sorry, QNX can't do that.

It's an operating system. The only thing consumers care about an OS is how many programs it can run or if it can run some specific programs. You don't buy a Toshiba or Dell laptop because of the operating system. Windows won over Apple back in the day primarily because so many more programs were available on PC but not on Apple. Unless an OS is notoriously bad like the vista, people don't care. The best OS is an OS that functions as an afterthought.

In 12 months, the software environment for QNX is going to be even more behind the top two than it is now. An emulator is not going to make up the difference.

Did you Join Crackberry just to be negative?
I don't see any posts of you asking for help
Nor any posts of you having any actual desire to see RIM successful, just negativity from the start.

[vlade31]

I agree FULLY that LTE is not the savior, and that we are going in circles

my Argument FULLY is based on Market penetration and market perception of the new Platform, RIM needs as many allies as possible to get Market penetration, and increase market perception to gain mindshare of App developers.

Verizon is not accepting any WP7 Phones in 2012 without LTE, so the assumption is RIM also must have LTE to be accepted by Verizon,
and as I said many times, RIM needs partners, and they need a united front for the launch of BBX, so they Need to have what Verizon will take, which in this case is LTE, but if RIM were to release an LTE device that required the hacking and alterations that the Android LTE devices need to get 11.5h of use (North American business day) then they would be a non starter device.

I DO agree that it is support is important, AND IF the major set back is hardware they best have some good plans for the ecosystem while they are waiting on the hardware

You do realize there are other carriers in the US besides Verizon, right? RIM is just using the LTE excuse just like they used the dual core in phones excuse to say BBX phones wont get her til early 2012. The truth is much simpler, the ain't ready, plain and simple. The other item to note here is that people are becoming more and more invested in ecosystems they are currently in which means even if RIM comes out with badass BB10 phone in late 2012 and it has all the big name apps, its going to be tough to convince the consumer to switch and buy the apps all over again. Time is the real enemy here for RIM.

[sosumi11]

my Argument FULLY is based on Market penetration and market perception of the new Platform, RIM needs as many allies as possible to get Market penetration, and increase market perception to gain mindshare of App developers.

Mindset begins with getting the product out and into the hands of reviewers and developers. If the product is good, then demand will follow. If demand is high, RIM's "partners" will push the product accordingly. Depending on a third party for marketing is not a good plan. Verizon is pushing every product they sell and the key is to get the consumer to ignore the noise and demand BlackBerry. No matter what the sales guy says.

Verizon is not accepting any WP7 Phones in 2012 without LTE, so the assumption is RIM also must have LTE to be accepted by Verizon,
and as I said many times, RIM needs partners, and they need a united front for the launch of BBX, so they Need to have what Verizon will take, which in this case is LTE, but if RIM were to release an LTE device that required the hacking and alterations that the Android LTE devices need to get 11.5h of use (North American business day) then they would be a non starter device.

RIM is not Microsoft. Microsoft can wait five years to get an LTE phone to Verizon. RIM doesn't have that luxury. Besides, Verizon is probably saying they don't want a new OS unless its LTE. Microsoft has not been a player with Verizon in recent years. RIM still is.

The chip is not the answer to long battery life. Power management software is.