[qbnkelt]

I see. Maybe somebody official or in-the-know can clarify how exactly is NOC working with new BB10? Actually, it'd be an interesting article for CrackBerry to highlight differences in how BIS/NOC is being used now vs previously. Kevin and others, I am looking at you guys!

I would qualify that by saying CB admins.
Too many people spouting forth while reading manuals trying to pass themselves off as people in the know.
I don't often agree with belfastdispatcher but I recently witnessed someone arguing with him who clearly had no clue what he was saying, just reading off the manual. However much I disagree with Belfast there are times when he knows what he knows, and this other person was absolutely off in some other world.

Kevin and admin should discuss this at length, I think.

Sent from my SEXY HOT RED SGIII using Tapatalk 2

[qbnkelt]

I have specifically not bought BlackBerry because of BIS. I don't want a phone that is dependent on BlackBerry in order to work.


Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Interesting.
Without BIS and data compression I see no need to use a BB10 device. Email on BB10 will be the same as my SGIII or 4S.

Sent from my SEXY HOT RED SGIII using Tapatalk 2

[ANTIABE]

The first reason for i have a blackberry is the exclusive data plan,like bis. Without bis and use a internet ordinary service,the BB10 is nothing,but a NOKIA N9 with blackberry logo. Thanks!

[kill_9]

Interesting.
Without BIS and data compression I see no need to use a BB10 device. Email on BB10 will be the same as my SGIII or 4S.

The BlackBerry Z10 is sleek and black and feels so good in your hand as your thumb slides across the oily-to-the-touch screen. Come on qbnkelt, you know you want to try it! The dragon says, "Give in to the temptation". Meanwhile, the ferrets scream, "No, mommy! No!"

[Omnitech]

I know this is an old post but I always laugh at this comment.

I've never heard one person say "I love BlackBerry phones, but having to use BIS means I'd rather have an iPhone". Not once. Never.

Figures you would revive this thread.

The simple fact is, since so few people actually understand what BIS actually does and how it works, most people haven't the knowledge to even know whether BIS is a blessing or a curse. Start here for example.

Already there are a bunch of misconceptions repeatedly stated in this old thread. IE the claimed BIS security. BIS DOES NOT encrypt email traffic by default, it has only weak "scrambling" for BBM and PIN messages, which is trivial to intercept if you're mildly knowledgeable/determined, and is typically provided to local law enforcement upon demand anyway.
PIN encryption keys - Security Note - BlackBerry Messenger - 5.0, 6.0, 7.0
FAQ: BlackBerry Messenger & PIN Messages are NOT Encrypted - BerryReview
Is BlackBerry messaging secure? | Sci-Tech | DAWN.COM
Archived copy of RIM document on BIS 4.0 security. (Notice avoidant wording in document)

LOL. UAE is smaller than the state I live in, and you could fit 20 Egypts in the US. I don't think people realize the size of the US and the massive diversity of terrain involved. It costs much more for a carrier to fully cover the US, compared to fully cover Egypt. That is why no carrier fully covers the US.

Correct... well, more like 10 Egypts.

Email on BB10 will be the same as my SGIII or 4S.

Which could actually be a significant step forward in a variety of areas. The problem is that the non-BIS email facilities as currently implemented in BB10 appear to be substandard compared to the competition. Rumor has it some improvements are on the way, but I personally view those omissions to be a much more significant issue than the lack of BIS, especially in the USA.

BB10 needs a longer sync-horizon for IMAP/EAS, it needs more sophisticated battery-saving options in order to remain at parity with the non-BB devices that are using more battery keeping mailboxes synced, it needs basic enterprise features like certficate-based auth for Exchange (without requiring BES10) which is apparently completely missing and not even on the roadmap yet, etc.

If people want to see carrier support for BB drop even further, keep insisting on that extra cost passed-on to all your carrier's customers and/or data usage given away for nothing instead of charging for it like happens with all your competitor's products. My personal opinion is Blackberry has zero interest even writing the code into BB10 that would be necessary to support BIS - which would of course have to be all re-written from scratch. At least when the QNX people implement something like EAS or IMAP or SMS functions, they are creating code that could be useful in some of their other platforms, like the interactive car platforms. Writing a big chunk of specialized BIS code is of absolutely no use to them outside of a very limited future on smartphones.

The BIS train has already left the station.

[marko01]

hi to crackberry.

As I'm a big fan of BB it might be so confuse and slightly disappoint here in South Africa that BB will lose many of it customers because of loosing BIS from the companies like MTN, Vodacom and Cell C that it would give a big shock to the people that was looking forward the new phones but end up with no BIS and sound like BB will went down in the market.

As i sent u this website to explain everything and what the people think about it and say about it...... MTN kills unlimited BlackBerry BIS | News24
RIM need to wake up to think about their customers as they must know how to their marketing.

[greatg67]

I was curious to see what was going to happen to BIS on Rogers, so I called the tech line yesterday. I was informed that come Jan 30, 2014, Rogers would be discontinuing BIS service. Sounds, like the carriers never liked this offering? I thought this was going to be a paid option moving forward with the Z10?

[pkcable]

Seems more like an OS discussion to me, moved to BB10 OS forum.

[ssbtech]

Figures you would revive this thread.

The simple fact is, since so few people actually understand what BIS actually does and how it works, most people haven't the knowledge to even know whether BIS is a blessing or a curse. Start here for example.

I wasn't the one who revived it, but since you're offering to help I have a question

On BB10, what replaces the BIS feature that allowed me to filter out messages based on certain criteria? I often get updates from various sources that I don't want on my phone. My carrier's BIS page lets BIS ignore these messages and refrain from pushing them to my phone because it's acting as the "middleman". With a Z10 checking POP accounts directly, how can these messages be ignored?

[kbz1960]

I wasn't the one who revived it, but since you're offering to help I have a question

On BB10, what replaces the BIS feature that allowed me to filter out messages based on certain criteria? I often get updates from various sources that I don't want on my phone. My carrier's BIS page lets BIS ignore these messages and refrain from pushing them to my phone because it's acting as the "middleman". With a Z10 checking POP accounts directly, how can these messages be ignored?

Make some rules in the Web access.

[ssbtech]

Make some rules in the Web access.

What web access?

[Omnitech]

I wasn't the one who revived it, but since you're offering to help I have a question

My apologies, what you did was followup to a 9-month-old comment.

On BB10, what replaces the BIS feature that allowed me to filter out messages based on certain criteria? I often get updates from various sources that I don't want on my phone. My carrier's BIS page lets BIS ignore these messages and refrain from pushing them to my phone because it's acting as the "middleman". With a Z10 checking POP accounts directly, how can these messages be ignored?

First of all, as we have hashed/rehashed elsewhere a million times already, POP3 is not where email is going these days. It is fading away.

While I assume one of the key objectives of RIM's design of BIS in the first place was to provide enhanced ways to deal with POP3 mail which gave RIM an advantage over their competitors back then, POP3 is less and less important these days to most of the world so that particular BIS value is fading away fast.

The first PDA that had a desktop sync/backup feature was the Palm Pilot. That was the reason I bought one when they were first introduced. In those days, sync was done over a serial (RS232) port. Eventually Palm devices used USB for local/cabled sync, since USB was/is the future, and fewer and fewer computers even had an RS232 port.

Your continued advocacy for POP3-specific BIS features strikes me as not unlike someone trying to bitterly contest the removal of RS232 syncing features on a Palm Pilot.

The market has moved-on, and the platform must adapt to the current market realities. Specifically, the majority of the world today does not use POP3 email.

It would certainly be nice if every feature that every customer anywhere wanted could all be thrown in to a new platform, "just in case". But in reality, engineering and support and device and network resources are limited, and priorities have to be made.

That's not to say that a 3rd-party could not provide a lot of those POP3 features if there were still a demand for them. That's the reason I ended up installing "Logicmail" on my BBOS6 device, because it provided email capabilities that RIM's embedded email app did not.

Nothing would prevent someone from doing the same sort of thing with BB10, and including features like POP3 server-side filtering. (It's still a crappy way to accomplish that compared to how it's done on ie IMAP, but you can still kluge that if you really really really think it's useful. Might even work. If you're lucky. )

[Omnitech]

On BB10, what replaces the BIS feature that allowed me to filter out messages based on certain criteria?

Another option: use a service like mailstart.com to act as your POP3 retriever/proxy/web interface.

Then you can almost fool yourself into thinking you're using a modern IMAP-based email system.

[ssbtech]

Another option: use a service like mailstart.com to act as your POP3 retriever/proxy/web interface.

Then you can almost fool yourself into thinking you're using a modern IMAP-based email system.

... again, more half-a55'd workarounds to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place (the removal of BIS)

IMAP isn't a solution either - keeping everything synchronised is a nighmare for people who get lots of emails and don't want them all cluttering up their device.

But I suppose of you're the sort of person who likes this kind of clutter:



Then I guess a "modern IMAP based email system" is right for you

[Omnitech]

... again, more half-a55'd workarounds to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place (the removal of BIS)

IMAP isn't a solution either - keeping everything synchronised is a nighmare for people who get lots of emails and don't want them all cluttering up their device.

But I suppose of you're the sort of person who likes this kind of clutter:

http://knowyourcellphone.net-genie.c...0/0/342990.gif

Then I guess a "modern IMAP based email system" is right for you

You can keep your IMAP inbox as uncluttered as you want.

I may as well point to your Outlook 2003 and say "OH MY, look at all those folders!!!!"

Silly.

[kbz1960]

What web access?

Guess I should've asked what type of account. Most email, gmail, outllook, hotmail whatever you can log in thru the browser and set rules etc. what emails go to what folder from there.

[ssbtech]

You can keep your IMAP inbox as uncluttered as you want.

So I can clear all the emails off my phone and have them remain on the server to download later?

I may as well point to your Outlook 2003 and say "OH MY, look at all those folders!!!!"

I have many different folders in Outlook and set up message rules to sort messages on download by who or what they're from. This way I don't have one giant list of emails from multiple senders in one row (unlike how the BB10 hub shows messages from multiple sources in one messy long list). A quick skim down the folders list in Outlook shows me where I have unread emails. I don't need all my Crackberry.com thread reply notifications in the same view as my workplace DVR camera alerts, and when a client emails me, all their emails are sorted into a folder with their name on it automatically.

Nothing is on the server, nothing is in the hands of someone else and I have complete control of, and access to my data.

[Omnitech]

So I can clear all the emails off my phone and have them remain on the server to download later?

Yep.

Nothing is on the server, nothing is in the hands of someone else and I have complete control of, and access to my data.

You are forgetting:

1. Your email data is most likely easily accessible in transit over the internet to anyone who manages to sniff traffic because most POP clients are not using encryption and most email transfers are done over the internet via SMTP in clear text.
2. Your ISP has access to everything you send/receive since it all passes through their infrastructure, both as traffic over their network and messages that are on their email server(s) for some period of time.

[ssbtech]

1. Your email data is most likely easily accessible in transit over the internet to anyone who manages to sniff traffic because most POP clients are not using encryption and most email transfers are done over the internet via SMTP in clear text.
   
2. Your ISP has access to everything you send/receive since it all passes through their infrastructure, both as traffic over their network and messages that are on their email server(s) for some period of time.

Right, and setting the phone up to use Shaw's EAS webmail makes this more secure... as long as there's POP access, security can't be guaranteed. Besides, once I've downloaded my emails, I have full access to them even if my internet connection goes awry. Once downloaded, my data is no longer in the hands of a 3rd party provider and I have a permanent copy of everything from the last 10 years.

You're still not getting the fact that I DO NOT want a synchronised email configuration.

[Omnitech]

You're still not getting the fact that I DO NOT want a synchronised email configuration.

What I'm getting is not that you don't want synchronized email (as I have already pointed-out that there are various ways to accomplish what you claim to want to accomplish, ie "clean inbox on mobile device"), but that you obviously don't want to change ANYTHING from what you've been doing the last 10 years, and will seemingly look for any convoluted rationale to essentially keep making that same point.

[Omnitech]

Right, and setting the phone up to use Shaw's EAS webmail makes this more secure... as long as there's POP access, security can't be guaranteed.

I can't figure out what point you are trying to make there. I have already debunked these assertions that "POP is more secure" and "BIS is more secure".

Besides, once I've downloaded my emails, I have full access to them even if my internet connection goes awry.

Neither IMAP, Exchange or EAS preclude that. You can archive back to the dinosaur age if you want, Outlook 2003 supports that with any of those server access methods.

[ssbtech]

I can't figure out what point you are trying to make there. I have already debunked these assertions that "POP is more secure" and "BIS is more secure".

You're stating that POP isn't secure, but switching to my ISP's Webmail (EAS) interface would still leave a security hole as there's no way to disable POP access to the account.

Neither IMAP, Exchange or EAS preclude that. You can archive back to the dinosaur age if you want, Outlook 2003 supports that with any of those server access methods.

I was unaware that emails could immediately be automatically sorted into various folders upon download. As long as the "archive" folder and subfolders can be accessed the same way as the "Inbox" folder and subfolders, then EAS might work.

Does the Z10 have an option to delete emails only from the device? My PlayBook clears them off the server when I delete an email. I was under the impression when using EAS you're actually just using your phone as a "window" or "tunnel" to the server, and not actually managing content on the device.

[nocturnal123]

I would like the data compression because this thing is a hog. I've gone through a quarter of my data package and am only 10 days into cycle. Which for me is bad since I truly haven't done much other than browsing, BBM and watched a couple short YouTube video's

Posted via CB10

[adrenaline_x]

don't automatically download attachments or images. That will save you alot data.

One of the reasons bis was left out is that in the consumer market everything is about speed of the browser, speed of the device, speed of everything on the phone.. In order to enjoy the benefits of bis's compression etc, you pay a penalty when loading anything data intensive like browsing or streaming content. Why? because with bis, your content is compressed on the noc (before transmitting to your phone) and then decompressed by your phone before it loads.

think about it this way.. Every time data is sent to your phone you have to use winzip or winrar to compress the files then transmitt is and then unzip it when it arrives. not only does it take extra time to do this on both ends, your device has to use more resources to decompress it.. The battery drain may be a wash between the two.

Compression is still used with devices attached to BES 10. I'm actived on bes, and the work browser that filters through our BES 10 server is alot slower then the personal browser.

[Omnitech]

I would like the data compression because this thing is a hog. I've gone through a quarter of my data package and am only 10 days into cycle. Which for me is bad since I truly haven't done much other than browsing, BBM and watched a couple short YouTube video's

BIS is going to do exactly nothing to compress a YouTube video because that content is already compressed. Furthermore, BIS is a terrible choice for streaming YouTube videos, my understanding is it creates all sorts of problems and sometimes prevents it working entirely.

Any video, no matter what the size, is going to be 100's of times bigger than a month's worth of emails with no attachments or BBM messages. If it's HD video, even worse.

Streaming audio on all day? Massive data consumer.

Honestly there are so many things that people do with smartphones streaming to millions of people the same content at the same time, they would mostly all be better off turning on the radio or the TV.

Or at the very least, making sure you're on WiFi before you do that stuff.