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  1. southlander's Avatar
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    #26  

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    Quote Originally Posted by xeju View Post
    Why exactly do we think RIM is dropping BIS?
    The fact that activesync is used on the PlayBook's native email app. No BIS. I for one do not think RIM will drop BIS. But I am thinking they might allow BB10 devices to also use activesync for certain configurations (ie non enterprise email/web only). But then if you want BBM, BIS.
  2. BitPusher2600's Avatar
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    #27  

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    Carriers would love it. Since almost all of 'em roll with these tiered data plans, any compression would be a small dent in their profits, at least with those that frequently go over their tier.

    Seems goofy to me to make the NOC essentially just a BBM server or something. I surely can't be the only person out here, right or wrong, that believe in the security benefits of BIS. I can't believe they'd get rid of it.

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  3. wout000's Avatar
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    #28  

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    I don't get what sources OP heard but if you read any of the doomsday messages about RIM in the last year or so you KNOW they won't stop offering BIS.

    First reason:
    BIS is the consumer heart of the blackberry. BIS provides blackberry and carriers with one feature no one else can offer, service books.

    In a lot of articles about RIM's failure in the last year or so there is always that one light at the end, they're actually expanding in emerging markets.
    BIS is that reason. You can actually get a BIS subscription for just BBM or BBM and email or email and surfing, or whatever combo you want at a cheaper rate of getting the entire BIS package. This is instrumental in their expansion.
    BBM is they key selling point amongst new/young blackberry adopters, you think a 12 year old cares about email? No, they want a blackberry, they want BBM and they want it cheap. BIS provides this opportunity.

    Second reason:
    BBM, NOC data compression will not function without BIS. Simply will not.
    Every tried putting someone else's sim card in your blackberry without a BIS or BES subscription? You can call home but that's pretty much it.
    And while bandwidth costs keep rising compression is something carriers are asking for.

    Numero 3:
    SECURITY. ENCRYPTION. COMPRESSION.

    Provided RIM isn't changing the architecture behind their entire ecosystem, BIS won't disappear. It's impossible. Their entire NOC infrastructure will be rendered useless over time and why would blackberry still exist without BIS? A blackberry without BIS is like an iPhone without the i. Think about it.
    Last edited by wout000; 04-30-2012 at 06:02 AM.
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  4. johnyblaze's Avatar
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    #29  

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    I definitely pray that BIS is at least optional, its so cumbersome compared to pre-paid data & prevents the easy switching of providers that people like to do in a lot of developing countries.
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  5. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    #30  

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    Quote Originally Posted by southlander View Post
    The fact that activesync is used on the PlayBook's native email app. No BIS. I for one do not think RIM will drop BIS. But I am thinking they might allow BB10 devices to also use activesync for certain configurations (ie non enterprise email/web only). But then if you want BBM, BIS.
    So far I've understand ... ActiveSync is user over the NOC ...
    So, we may discuss what part of what we name BIS is used ... I personally translate it easily-roughly with "RIM dealing the data".
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  6. Whitecaps's Avatar
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    #31  

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    I want cheaper data plans!
  7. Stephen Green's Avatar
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    #32  

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    I would agree that BIS really needs to be included on bb10 devices. Email seem to be delivered quicker and more secure.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  8. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    #33  

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    I wish there was an app like Onavo (it routes traffic through it's VPN and compresses data, reducing your data usage). Maybe BlackBerry can create an Onavo like app that routes data through BIS (and BIS already compresses data). This way, you can still use your smartphone without BIS specific data plan but connect to BIS and get data-compression benefits whenever you want by installing that app.
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    #34  

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    This my first personal BlackBerry and I have always had BES working out of the box for my company phone.

    If BIS offers compression and security out of the box then it is an upgrade I am willing to pay for.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    I wish there was an app like Onavo (it routes traffic through it's VPN and compresses data, reducing your data usage). Maybe BlackBerry can create an Onavo like app that routes data through BIS (and BIS already compresses data). This way, you can still use your smartphone without BIS specific data plan but connect to BIS and get data-compression benefits whenever you want by installing that app.
    I think that's exactly how BB10 works, there is no more bis plans but that doesn't mean data is not routed trough the NOC.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  11. JR A's Avatar
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    #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Rizk View Post
    I know well what I am saying, I never said BBM will not without BIS. I just said BIS was a away to connect to BBM.

    Regarding the extra fees this only applies on the US Carriers where they do their best to take your money, but everywhere else that doesn't happen. In Egypt I get Unlimited BIS for 20$ but iPhones get 10GB data for 50$!!

    In Qatar I pay 20$ for Unlimited BIS but for an iPhone I need to pay 110$ monthly for Unlimited Data!

    US Carriers are the ones who always keeps moaning about services costing them. US Carriers are failures with the poorest coverage in the world! I can't imagine when I went to Florida in 2010 & 2011 dude I couldn't even get 2 EDGE bars from either Tmo or AT&T in Shopping malls and outlets!!! Like if they can't offer Coverage in malls! Where are they offering it then!!
    In Washington DC it took AT&T over 3 hours to authorize my line for Roaming!! Come to Egypt the "Third World Country" Egypt is full covered by H+ signal literally FULLY COVERED BY H+!!, UAE is full covered by H+ even Canada coverage is much much better than US Carriers!


    My advice to RIM never depend on US Carriers who can't even provide a quality service to their customers but depend on other countries who care about you as Indonesia & Middle East!
    It was your phone.

    Were you using your Egypt bought phone in the US? If that's the case, even though it's a GSM phone, it doesn't have the exact GSM bands as the US phones.

    I got perfect reception from both AT&T and TMo when I was in Florida.


    Besides, to compare Egypt "the third world country" reception to the US after experiencing shoddy reception in one location (which could after all be due to a foreign GSM phone with mismatching bands) is a bit of hyperbole. I'm sure you wouldn't get reception out in the desert or other remote areas in Egypt but I wouldn't hold that against Egypt or the carriers there. But, to play on the same token, I could say Egypt gets CRAPPY reception since majority of its land mass doesn't even get reception when in fact my state (California) spans more square kilometers of inhabitable living space than your country and gets great reception. So yeah...


    Anyway, to get to the point of NO BIS = DEAD BLACKBERRY is one way of looking at it. It's not BlackBerry's fault that this is a price matter, but your country's carriers. I mean, it's not BlackBerry charging you $100/mo for data, it's your carrier.

    If your carrier wasn't charging so much for data it wouldn't matter if BIS was still around or not. So, I guess it's those damn Egyptian carriers that are "failures" as you put it. They have the "poorest" data plans in the world!

    My advice to you is to never depend on Egyptian carriers to be fair who can't even provide reasonably priced data plans to it's faithful customers even though they provide great reception that's better than horrible US carriers...


  12. ssbtech's Avatar
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    #37  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Nguyen View Post
    Thank god, I finally can understand that BIS make some sense overseas because in the US, BIS is nonsense for consumer like me. BIS requirement is the main reason why BB phones sell so badly in the US.
    I know this is an old post but I always laugh at this comment.

    I've never heard one person say "I love BlackBerry phones, but having to use BIS means I'd rather have an iPhone". Not once. Never.

    BlackBerry phones are selling poorly not because they came with a service that reduces data usage and improves email functionality but because the hardware and OS were quickly becoming surpassed by the competition.
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  13. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    #38  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    I think that's exactly how BB10 works, there is no more bis plans but that doesn't mean data is not routed trough the NOC.
    I think you are mistaken. Only some data (eg: BBM) is routed through NOC. Emails used to get routed via BIS/NOC but that's not the case anymore. It'd be cool if BlackBerry offered an app (like Onavo). Install that app, and your smartphone then makes a VPN connection to BlackBerry NOC/BIS and then all data gets routed through BIS/NOC with data compression etc. It could be made available as a paid app. This way, it all works on regular data plan.
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  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #39  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    I think you are mistaken. Only some data (eg: BBM) is routed through NOC. Emails used to get routed via BIS/NOC but that's not the case anymore. It'd be cool if BlackBerry offered an app (like Onavo). Install that app, and your smartphone then makes a VPN connection to BlackBerry NOC/BIS and then all data gets routed through BIS/NOC with data compression etc. It could be made available as a paid app. This way, it all works on regular data plan.
    That's what I thought at first too but it appears if the BlackBerry symbol is not beside the signal indicator (NOC connection) neither emails or browsing are working. This tells me the data is still routed trough the NOC but obviously not in the same way as bis emails did before.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  15. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    #40  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    That's what I thought at first too but it appears if the BlackBerry symbol is not beside the signal indicator (NOC connection) neither emails or browsing are working. This tells me the data is still routed trough the NOC but obviously not in the same way as bis emails did before.
    I see. Maybe somebody official or in-the-know can clarify how exactly is NOC working with new BB10? Actually, it'd be an interesting article for CrackBerry to highlight differences in how BIS/NOC is being used now vs previously. Kevin and others, I am looking at you guys!
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  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #41  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    I see. Maybe somebody official or in-the-know can clarify how exactly is NOC working with new BB10? Actually, it'd be an interesting article for CrackBerry to highlight differences in how BIS/NOC is being used now vs previously. Kevin and others, I am looking at you guys!
    I agree, somebody needs to dig up this information.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
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  17. Whitecaps's Avatar
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    #42  

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    3rd world countries pay very little already for their data plans, so it wont make much difference i bet
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    #43  

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    I'm also upset about not having BIS anymore. Its actually the only reason I've stayed with BB for so long.
  19. Whitecaps's Avatar
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    #44  

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    Yeah.. I used to pay only $50 but now i pay almost double that
  20. Apollo_IV's Avatar
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    #45  

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    Stop being so dramatic. BIS needs to go away as much as BBM needs to go cross-platform. No one would be able to touch them if that were to happen.

    PS: Easy on the commas and full stops buddy; they aren't going anywhere
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    #46  

    Default Open letter to RIM | BlackBerry 10 without BIS = RIM dead

    Quote Originally Posted by sotgl3000 View Post
    This my first personal BlackBerry and I have always had BES working out of the box for my company phone.

    If BIS offers compression and security out of the box then it is an upgrade I am willing to pay for.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
    Well said. TH mentioned going multi-layered service revenue model going forward (which by the way is a great idea, I think, as it gives us choices), and I was expecting that introduced with debut of Z10. I for one am perfectly willing to pay for BIS access (like I am now but not by choice) but BBRY needs to demonstrates how BIS helps eg. security and how, compression but by how much, and any potential downsides like latency and speed cap when streaming media.

    I hope TH was not talking about BES at the time.

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    #47  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbtech View Post
    I know this is an old post but I always laugh at this comment.

    I've never heard one person say "I love BlackBerry phones, but having to use BIS means I'd rather have an iPhone". Not once. Never.

    BlackBerry phones are selling poorly not because they came with a service that reduces data usage and improves email functionality but because the hardware and OS were quickly becoming surpassed by the competition.
    I have specifically not bought BlackBerry because of BIS. I don't want a phone that is dependent on BlackBerry in order to work.


    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  23. lnichols's Avatar
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    LOL. UAE is smaller than the state I live in, and you could fit 20 Egypts in the US. I don't think people realize the size of the US and the massive diversity of terrain involved. It costs much more for a carrier to fully cover the US, compared to fully cover Egypt. That is why no carrier fully covers the US.

    Now as for BIS, I believe that RIM should have kept it as an option in BB10. The lack of BIS is going to make my International business travels much more expensive, or I'm going to need to start switching SIMs, which I don't want to do. I used to be able to have my carrier turn on the International BlackBerry plan and get unlimited web, e-mail, and BBM, and people could reach me on my number if their was an issue.
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    #49  

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    LOL. UAE is smaller than the state I live in, and you could fit 20 Egypts in the US. I don't think people realize the size of the US and the massive diversity of terrain involved. It costs much more for a carrier to fully cover the US, compared to fully cover Egypt. That is why no carrier fully covers the US.

    Now as for BIS, I believe that RIM should have kept it as an option in BB10. The lack of BIS is going to make my International business travels much more expensive, or I'm going to need to start switching SIMs, which I don't want to do. I used to be able to have my carrier turn on the International BlackBerry plan and get unlimited web, e-mail, and BBM, and people could reach me on my number if their was an issue.
    ^Yep. I wish I knew why they did it, why its not an Option?
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    #50  

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    poor little dead horse is still getting beaten..
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