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  1. M.Rizk's Avatar
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    Default Open letter to RIM | BlackBerry 10 without BIS = RIM dead

    Hello Guys,

    I am opening this thread for discussion regarding the BlackBerry Internet Service.

    RIM has many unique features which is keeping us on board from switching to other brands, one of them is the BlackBerry Internet Service the mother of BBM, Email and everything pretty in BlackBerry.

    As we see the PlayBook OS, soon the PlayBook 4G & 3G+ also BlackBerry 10. RIM futures is coming with non exciting features. Yes QNX rocks and does what we all are dreaming of. But if no BIS we will be losing the BlackBerry branding!

    Heard from many sources that RIM decided to stop BIS because it is "limited" I am sorry RIM. BIS is not limited due to it's structure it's you RIM limiting it.

    Below are some limitations in BIS and. Proof of why RIM is blocking it not limitations in the system of BIS.

    Who says BIS can't upload, Yes it can but RIM is blocking it, Proof: You can upload videos to Youtube of file sizes up to 1.99GB. You were able to upload to Megaupload using PlayBook over Bridge RIM allows uploads to youtube, but refuses any other site, why Megaupload worked? Because it used Flash Uploader because RIM can't control flash.

    BIS can't view Youtube videos? With BB10 having Flash & HTML5 it can.

    BIS can't download over 1.99GB? It can just the Java platform limiting it

    RIM can't get PUSH to work on BB10? They don't need it they can use Active Sync normally & allow POP3 to pass, Proof: Run PlayBook over Bridge. It's email will work fine.

    RIM can't maintain BIS NOC due to costs.. Sorry RIM but that's your problem go blame who was the reason of your loss and this year's outage not us.

    Just to let you know RIM, I am Egyptian. In Egypt people don't get paid at high rates, there are many cheap Nokia phones around the only reason they are considering BlackBerry is it having Social only plans that come with unlimited BBM, Twitter, Facebook, Windows Live, Linkedin, etc.

    If BIS is getting removed from BB10 I am sorry RIM I won't be buying your product and will consider other phones and keep my BB 9900 for BBM.
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    ANTIABE (02-25-2013),  goku_vegeta (04-06-2012) 
  2. Searzy's Avatar
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    I agree, RIM needs to keep, AND IMPROVE the BIS.

    Its all about security, which is RIM's strength.

    When I read about the MS exchange issue, I was quite shocked, that it was even considered, yet alone made as decision.

    BUT

    Those were BA-Silly / Lazy-Rus decisions. it MAY be overturned...
    Z10 till I die...

    searzyOUT!!
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  3. M.Rizk's Avatar
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    I hope RIM keeps up with BIS, it has encryption, security and most important compression and yes compression matters you won't feel how it works unless you get burnt in a huge Roaming Bill.
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  4. TGR1's Avatar
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    Are you willing to pay $100/year or so for it? Or have it for free in return for ads, information gathering?

    If you are costing them too much money, you may well be a customer they cannot afford, no matter how much RIM and you might wish it otherwise.

    P.S. I hope you sent something similar to RIM. Open letters on forums are just noise.
    Last edited by TGR1; 04-06-2012 at 06:36 PM.
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  5. goku_vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGR1 View Post
    Are you willing to pay $100/year or so for it? Or have it for free in return for ads, information gathering?

    If you are costing them too much money, you may well be a customer they cannot afford, no matter how much RIM and you might wish it otherwise.

    P.S. I hope you sent something similar to RIM. Open letters on forums are just noise.
    I'd pay, since I know with BIS it's a better investment. Ads are VERY annoying and detract from anything. Wouldn't you pay to save sounds like a strange concept but change your paradigm and you'll soon see that the NOC does benefit us.
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  6. M.Rizk's Avatar
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    Actually paying 100 a month is much better than me paying 1K a Roaming bill. I need compression as I said it saves fortune. I don't need Push I believe Active Sync works fine with BlackBerry encryption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goku_vegeta View Post
    I'd pay, since I know with BIS it's a better investment. Ads are VERY annoying and detract from anything. Wouldn't you pay to save sounds like a strange concept but change your paradigm and you'll soon see that the NOC does benefit us.
    Oh, I don't disagree at all. While I don't use it currently, and while it is nice when a company can offer a great feature for "free", I am also a realist and am perfectly willing to pony up for things I think worth paying for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGR1 View Post
    Oh, I don't disagree at all. While I don't use it currently, and while it is nice when a company can offer a great feature for "free", I am also a realist and am perfectly willing to pony up for things I think worth paying for.
    Who said RIM is providing BIS for free? It's not a charity.. It takes 5$ of your bill/credit each month through your Carrier.
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  9. TGR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Rizk View Post
    Who said RIM is providing BIS for free? It's not a charity.. It takes 5$ of your bill/credit each month through your Carrier.
    It's not always broken out in monthly charges, hence the quotes as "free", i.e. perceived by customer (talking North America here).

    Which can make explicitly charging for it trickier for RIM.
  10. mtint's Avatar
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    Looks like some misconceptions about BIS. The BlackBerry internet service was created at a time when mobile bandwidth was very limited. It is questionable do we need the compression anymore - well, understand the roaming charges, but from general user perspective sounds like not a must.

    On BB10, looking at how the platform develops on PlayBook - and some feedback from people I know at RIM and carriers, there is not going to be BIS (charges).
    BIS has nothing to do with having functions like BBM, Facebook, push (email - in QNX case it will be Exchange/ActiveSync, or anything else) etc etc. All this can (will) be implemented even not having BIS. The question is, as at the moment BBM service is paid - part of BIS charges, is RIM going to charge for those services. Personally I doubt it will be the case, but let see.

    Actually, personally believe the move BB10 to be able to work without the need of BIS is very right move. Very often, the general consumer when hears the need to pay extra 10 USD on the top of the voice+data package every month, simply moves to other platform.

    My understanding is, and I hope, the functionality of next RIM's platform will be the same as the current one, but without the encryption and compression. For the ones (corporations mostly I guess) who require encryption of the traffic, and maybe compression - not sure on this tbh, there is BlackBerry Fusion. Probably, for the consumers, and SMBs, the carriers will offer Fusion package - which will bring the encryption and (maybe) compression.

    Just trying to say more options, I guess, on how to use a device with BB10. Don't want to pay 10 USD on a top of regular package - still having functionalities but without encryption and compression. Want all including encryption and compression - fine, get Fusion package
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtint View Post
    Looks like some misconceptions about BIS. The BlackBerry internet service was created at a time when mobile bandwidth was very limited. It is questionable do we need the compression anymore - well, understand the roaming charges, but from general user perspective sounds like not a must.

    On BB10, looking at how the platform develops on PlayBook - and some feedback from people I know at RIM and carriers, there is not going to be BIS (charges).
    BIS has nothing to do with having functions like BBM, Facebook, push (email - in QNX case it will be Exchange/ActiveSync, or anything else) etc etc. All this can (will) be implemented even not having BIS. The question is, as at the moment BBM service is paid - part of BIS charges, is RIM going to charge for those services. Personally I doubt it will be the case, but let see.

    Actually, personally believe the move BB10 to be able to work without the need of BIS is very right move. Very often, the general consumer when hears the need to pay extra 10 USD on the top of the voice+data package every month, simply moves to other platform.

    My understanding is, and I hope, the functionality of next RIM's platform will be the same as the current one, but without the encryption and compression. For the ones (corporations mostly I guess) who require encryption of the traffic, and maybe compression - not sure on this tbh, there is BlackBerry Fusion. Probably, for the consumers, and SMBs, the carriers will offer Fusion package - which will bring the encryption and (maybe) compression.

    Just trying to say more options, I guess, on how to use a device with BB10. Don't want to pay 10 USD on a top of regular package - still having functionalities but without encryption and compression. Want all including encryption and compression - fine, get Fusion package

    EDIT: I forgot to mention the compression, not everyone uses an unlimited data plan or can get an unlimited data plan


    Agreed, although the PlayBook also DOES use the NOC when it's connected to BES/Mobile Fusion as well as for the initial set up. What worries me is the fact that they're saying the infrastructure is getting too expensive for them to maintain. Initially I was thinking that everyone who pays for some sort of data on a BlackBerry whether is the full data or the social networking plan, a certain portion of it goes to RIM. I thought that was enough to support their NOC infrastructure, at least that's what I had thought.


    It'll be interesting to see how this rolls out.
    Last edited by goku_vegeta; 04-06-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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    I wonder if the carries would like to see BIS go away?
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    I bet they would. They would get more profit from the data services. I really blame Verizon for the decline of BlackBerry. They used to push them now they lure people to other devices and discourage people from buying them. Verizon is the largest BlackBerry provider. At least they used to be. I don't know why I brought that up but it's how I feel.
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    BIS is the reason for the small data usage. Thru device analyzer, I concluded that 500 MB a month is enough for me.

    BIS makes stuff small and compresses it.

    Yes, this is also because of the security.
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    Where is this info that BlackBerry is dropping BiS coming from?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9860, no QWERTY required.
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  16. M.Rizk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goku_vegeta View Post
    EDIT: I forgot to mention the compression, not everyone uses an unlimited data plan or can get an unlimited data plan


    Agreed, although the PlayBook also DOES use the NOC when it's connected to BES/Mobile Fusion as well as for the initial set up. What worries me is the fact that they're saying the infrastructure is getting too expensive for them to maintain. Initially I was thinking that everyone who pays for some sort of data on a BlackBerry whether is the full data or the social networking plan, a certain portion of it goes to RIM. I thought that was enough to support their NOC infrastructure, at least that's what I had thought.


    It'll be interesting to see how this rolls out.
    I know well what I am saying, I never said BBM will not without BIS. I just said BIS was a away to connect to BBM.

    Regarding the extra fees this only applies on the US Carriers where they do their best to take your money, but everywhere else that doesn't happen. In Egypt I get Unlimited BIS for 20$ but iPhones get 10GB data for 50$!!

    In Qatar I pay 20$ for Unlimited BIS but for an iPhone I need to pay 110$ monthly for Unlimited Data!

    US Carriers are the ones who always keeps moaning about services costing them. US Carriers are failures with the poorest coverage in the world! I can't imagine when I went to Florida in 2010 & 2011 dude I couldn't even get 2 EDGE bars from either Tmo or AT&T in Shopping malls and outlets!!! Like if they can't offer Coverage in malls! Where are they offering it then!!
    In Washington DC it took AT&T over 3 hours to authorize my line for Roaming!! Come to Egypt the "Third World Country" Egypt is full covered by H+ signal literally FULLY COVERED BY H+!!, UAE is full covered by H+ even Canada coverage is much much better than US Carriers!

    My advice to RIM never depend on US Carriers who can't even provide a quality service to their customers but depend on other countries who care about you as Indonesia & Middle East!
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    Got some news now from 2 more valid sources that I trust. That BIS is not going away.

    I agree with thise, Why? Because PlayBook & BB10 tablets got Bridge included like if no more BIS why have Bridge and not just tethering?.

    BlackBerry Internet Service websites state BlackBerry Tablet setup is not possible from here. That means there is another way to support it.

    RIM is currently fixing a new NOC in India and Singapore I think. If NOC costs them. Why are they starting new ones?
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    BIS is not going away as it should support for many years ahead the BB devices which need BIS/BES to work on the network - OS5/6/7/7.1. The discussion is about BB10 and BIS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtint View Post
    BIS is not going away as it should support for many years ahead the BB devices which need BIS/BES to work on the network - OS5/6/7/7.1. The discussion is about BB10 and BIS.
    BIS will never leave the old devices. What I care about is BIS joining the new devices.
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    Seems I've read many times that people hate the NOC due to it making things slow that aren't slow on other platforms.
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    Thank god, I finally can understand that BIS make some sense overseas because in the US, BIS is nonsense for consumer like me. BIS requirement is the main reason why BB phones sell so badly in the US.

    There're a lot of topics of people new to BB asking about BIS, but most of the wise guys on Crackberry replied as if they have no idea what BIS is going on in other countries. Really, I went over 20 pages of comments in some certain topics to find out but still didn't get it. But now I do. Thanks for your topic.

    I love Blackberry Bold 9900 even though people around me think I'm crazy for liking a dying Blackberry. Its oddly high price is truly crazy, but its beautiful design and awesome keyboard really got me. So I bought it and then found out that my current Unlimited Data Plan was not enough. I need to pay more for BIS just to be able to use my data plan normally.

    I think BIS is stupid in the US where 3G/4G is not expensive, BIS is. T-Mobile offers $30/m prepaid plan that includes voice, unlimited messaging, unlimited Data Plan. But I need to pay $10 extra every month if I want to use Mail app, BBM, BB Map, and almost everything else, otherwise the unlimited 3G plan is just enough for Bold 9900 to be a basic phone, can't even be a GPS navigation. That's how RIM is doing very well to keep people away.

    I returned the phone and continue using my sluggish Samsung Vibrant (but not useless without BIS).

    You may call me cheap, but I'm sure that people who are not hardcore BB fans won't be willing to pay that nonsense extra cost. People love BIS because its security. ok. But why RIM don't give us choice? Who need that high level security, go BIS, and those who can live perfectly fine without BIS, go normal 4G.

    RIM can not live with only government and hardcore fans' support, RIM need more normal consumer like me to buy its phone. I'm willing to pay $600 for Bold 9900 when Google is selling one of the finest Android phone for only $399. There's nothing to argue that Google Galaxy Nexus can do much much more than a BB, but I still like Bold 9900 because of its keyboard and straight forward UI for basic tasks of a phone. Dropping BIS or give people choice not using BIS but normal data plan is the BEST thing that RIM should have done a long long time ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Rizk View Post
    Hello Guys,

    I am opening this thread for discussion regarding the BlackBerry Internet Service.

    RIM has many unique features which is keeping us on board from switching to other brands, one of them is the BlackBerry Internet Service the mother of BBM, Email and everything pretty in BlackBerry.

    As we see the PlayBook OS, soon the PlayBook 4G & 3G+ also BlackBerry 10. RIM futures is coming with non exciting features. Yes QNX rocks and does what we all are dreaming of. But if no BIS we will be losing the BlackBerry branding!

    Heard from many sources that RIM decided to stop BIS because it is "limited" I am sorry RIM. BIS is not limited due to it's structure it's you RIM limiting it.

    Below are some limitations in BIS and. Proof of why RIM is blocking it not limitations in the system of BIS.

    Who says BIS can't upload, Yes it can but RIM is blocking it, Proof: You can upload videos to Youtube of file sizes up to 1.99GB. You were able to upload to Megaupload using PlayBook over Bridge RIM allows uploads to youtube, but refuses any other site, why Megaupload worked? Because it used Flash Uploader because RIM can't control flash.

    BIS can't view Youtube videos? With BB10 having Flash & HTML5 it can.

    BIS can't download over 1.99GB? It can just the Java platform limiting it

    RIM can't get PUSH to work on BB10? They don't need it they can use Active Sync normally & allow POP3 to pass, Proof: Run PlayBook over Bridge. It's email will work fine.

    RIM can't maintain BIS NOC due to costs.. Sorry RIM but that's your problem go blame who was the reason of your loss and this year's outage not us.

    Just to let you know RIM, I am Egyptian. In Egypt people don't get paid at high rates, there are many cheap Nokia phones around the only reason they are considering BlackBerry is it having Social only plans that come with unlimited BBM, Twitter, Facebook, Windows Live, Linkedin, etc.

    If BIS is getting removed from BB10 I am sorry RIM I won't be buying your product and will consider other phones and keep my BB 9900 for BBM.
    Sorry, but you got things mixed up, RIM is not blocking uploads or downloads on BIS, even old BBs can upload to youtube and BBOS6 and 7 already have html5.
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  23. xeju's Avatar
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    Why exactly do we think RIM is dropping BIS?

    Also, I believe carriers probably like it because it vastly reduces bandwidth due to compression.

    If a carrier or other entity (Google or third world governments) wants to harvest personal info, it tends to make that harder. (Except when RIM caves and allows governments to snoop.)

    It's part of what I like about RIM, but clearly that security is eroding for BIS - I think RIM should clamp down and market its security with BIS.
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    If They (i don't know who Exactly) Allowed Full BIS Services in Middle East, or just add the Service Around the Global (Some Countries Don't Have BIS At All) i would Accept ALL of what you've said...

    i Just want to Open "Facebook", "App World", "Twitter", and the Most Important app "Blackberry Protection" without any Wi-fi Available...
    Still though i'm Sticking with my BB

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Crackberry's App
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    BIS/BES is a key feature for RIM (their most profitable activity is there).
    On both companies and customer side, it improves security & speed and lower costs (in brief). On carriers side, it deals with bandwidth and infrastructure concerns (which are major ones).

    I haven't read anywhere that RIM was neither having troubles with BIS (upload : what problem ?) nor planning to get rid of it ...
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