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  1. eprklims's Avatar
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    Default Native Versus Android Port - Please stop the bashing

    Hi all

    I realize there are some threads with this as a discussion point somewhere embedded within it, but I wanted to put this out there to hopefully stop the bashing of Android developers porting their applications to BB10.

    I have seen way too many threads de-railed with a comment like 'Well if it's an Android port it's crap and I don't want it'. Honestly, it makes the poster sound like a spoiled child.

    We have to realize that bringing an app to ANY platform is very expensive. It's not just the cost to write the app, but the support, and ongoing updates that have to be factored in. (And all this for a couple bucks usually!!!) When it's a new or fledgling OS, like BB10, getting any support in my mind is good. Right now the limitations are mostly on BlackBerry's side - and hopefully will be fixed and improve the 'flow' when the runtime is upgraded and more capabilities are opened up.

    The analogy I use is that saying you won't use an 'Android' port just because it is Android is like saying 'Well, I won't drive that car because it's a Ford, and instead I'll walk everywhere'. It may not be the perfect 'vehicle' to get things done in terms of 'form' but often the 'function' makes up for that. I'll choose function over form every day of the week.
    A great example of an Android port that is worth checking out is SignEasy. I bugged and harassed the developer of this great app and he decided to take the plunge and port his Android version over. In my mind this is one of the best Android ports out there and it brings functionality otherwise not available on this platform. There are two people that instead of keeping quiet, decided to post negative comments on the announcement page about it being an 'Android port' and it appears they didn't even bother trying it. How do you think that is going to help this platform?? Don't you think instead you should try out the app, and see if it helps, and if there are enough people using/buying these apps then it's very likely the developer will consider a Native version in the future. By not downloading it and then bashing the developer, how do you think they'll feel about our platform? Seriously think about it. An Android port means the developer wants to test out the waters. If there's no interest, they'll likely just move on. If they get bashed, that will just expedite it and then the platform will die. Before this app came out I had to carry around my iPad if I wanted to sign a document and had to toggle wifi hotspot on/off on my 9900 and the Z10. This one 'ported' app made all that go away.

    We also have to remember there are a lot of 'native' apps that are not that useful. This is the same for any platform. I'll choose an Android port that improves my device over a 'native' one that adds no value.

    Android ports are a bridge for now - we get to decide if they're a bridge to eventual Native support, or a bridge to nowhere by our actions. Please, if you don't like Android ports for whatever petty reason you may have, just keep it to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the increased productivity and useability that they bring.
  2. Iamanonymous62's Avatar
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    "Please, if you don't like Android ports for whatever petty reason you may have, just keep it to yourself ...." Please, if you don't like people complaining about Android ports for whatever petty reason you may have, just keep it to yourself.
    tiziano27 likes this.
  3. Jean-luc_Picard's Avatar
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    Android ports were terrible on PlayBook. As in even having an Android app would make the PlayBook painfully slow even if you never opened the Android app. While that's no longer the case, many people still think of Android ports this way, and they spread their opinion wherever possible. On the Z10 nowadays, the only problems with Android ports are that the UI is inconsistent with the native apps, and Android apps tend to be a bit laggier at more intense activities. A good Android port is certainly a ton better than a bad native app, but early experience combined with the perception of Android as insecure and virus ridden make people automatically dismiss them.
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  4. kbz1960's Avatar
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    It doesn't help when a lot of peoples first experience with android ports were not good because the app didn't work or barely worked. There are some that work well, or so I hear, as I haven't had a need for any of them.
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    r0v3rT3N likes this.
  5. tiziano27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-luc_Picard View Post
    On the Z10 nowadays, the only problems with Android ports are that the UI is inconsistent with the native apps, and Android apps tend to be a bit laggier at more intense activities.
    That is the definition of poor usability and low quality.
  6. UMLD's Avatar
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    If porting an app over to BB 10 is so difficult for major developers, why has it been so easy for the single person developers to port theirs over?
  7. eprklims's Avatar
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    Yes, the PlayBook experience wasn't ideal, but it was their first version of the Android runtime and things have certainly evolved. At the beginning all ports ran in one window which was pretty rough and luckily that's improved now, and hopefully at some point there will be a more elegant way to keep the 'flow' idea of the rest of the OS.

    I think as a community it would be helpful to support these Android apps if they run properly. They may be the first experience a developer has with our community and it's better that they have a good experience than a crappy one.

    I realize my comment about 'petty reasons' could have been worded better. I just don't see how the poster immediately after my post added any value to this conversation. I said 'petty' reason because I couldn't think of a valid reason why someone would rather have nothing than something. It would have been nice if the first response to my post added some value to the conversation, but I guess I'm thankful the conversation is at least being had.
  8. eprklims's Avatar
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    @UMLD... I guess it really depends on how involved the app is ... and then the interest the developer has in the platform. Developing software is not a simple task and it really depends how it was written and what language it was written in initially. Some languages are easier to bring to BB10 than others.
  9. Mikey Gardner's Avatar
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    Some people also need to realize that even though this is blackberry, this is a whole new operating system and it's going to take some time for everything to get going like iOS and android. nobody thinks of what android and the first iphones were like they just compare to what they are like now because BlackBerry has been around for a long time and should have already had this figured out. And honestly I was wondering what was taking them so long. but the product of that wait is a very nice phone with great potential, and just like iphones it will take a little bit before they're bulletproof but there will still be problems.

    Just my little rant, even though Ko one cares I just had enough of the people who are so lazy that they can't do something because they don't have an app. Or blah blah blah its actually sad, maybe I'm not a ceo that needs certain things but if it's not here for you now then just wait and let the people who want to test it out go through the headaches.

    Posted on my Z10
  10. dbmalloy's Avatar
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    #10  

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    What in essence is being said is Android in an inferior product and thus not worthy of being on the BB Platform.... Are some unstable or slow... sure but not all of them by any stretch of the imagination..... whether we like it or not... users look for a plethora of apps good or bad when deciding what phone to buy.... If HTML5 actually takes off this will all be a moot point and BB will be in the forefront of the expected revolution....
  11. ubermanx's Avatar
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    I see it like this...

    Developer A thinks there is no reason to develop a BlackBerry App as "no one uses BlackBerry anymore" and all that crap circulating around.

    The BlackBerry then says "you know we have Android compatibility on BB10 so it will take you about 30 seconds once you are set up to re-sign your app to run."

    Developer A says okay. Releases the port and we devoted CrackBerry addicts download in the millions.

    Developer A all of a sudden sees that BlackBerry isn't dead. There is money to be made here.

    So then they ask BlackBerry for the tools and help making the app native. And we are all happy.

    So even if the android app sucks I still download and try it for myself. Let the developer see we are interested.

    Of course this theory can fall apart at so many levels. BlackBerry needs to make the Android Player work better which they have from OS2 to BB10. The vetting process has to be strict to ensure Android apps in BlackBerry World run as well as possible, we need to support the apps as much as reasonably possible without paying for cap, etc.

    Native Apps will not happen if we can't convince developers to make them.




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  12. filmgirl's Avatar
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    #12  

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    Here's the problem: most of the ports suck. Whether it is poor coding on the Android side or poor performance on the Android runtime VM, I don't know, but 95% of the Android ports I've downloaded have been bad. Now, to be fair, most of the native apps I've downloaded for the Z10 suck too. The general developer skill on BB10 just doesn't appear to be as good as on iOS. You see this on Windows Phone too -- and even Android. Apps I bought for the iPhone in 2008 were often better coded and more developed than a 2013 BB10/Windows Phone 8/Android app -- it is what it is.

    I can understand not wanting to demoralize devs that port their apps. It's awesome that SignEasy (an app I've been using since like 2010, awesome app) ported for you, seriously, they deserve serious props. Still, at the same time I've spent about $75 testing various apps for my job (I'm a tech journalist/analyst) and while I can expense the purchase, the average user can't. If I paid for a crappy port (and SignEasy is free and from what I can tell a decent port, not talking a out them), I would be PISSED.

    That's the problem.

    Even apps from companies I like -- such as Songza (their CEO is in my address book, I love Songza) are going to get an earful from me when their ported app fails and crashes when attempting to do a Facebook login (that embarrassingly has a "download FB for Android link in the iframe). It's amateur hour and I put most the blame on BlackBerry for being way too lax in trying to push as many Android ports as possible.

    Here's my biggest issue with ports: 99% of those developers never even tested their app on an actual BB10 device. Instead they just ran it through the converter, passed the unit test and hit submit. If that's all a dev is going to do (making an exception for port requests like SignEasy), why should we give them a golf clap for showing up?

    And for what it's worth -- I say the same thing about Android apps that are clearly recycled iOS ports. In a lot of cases, if you can't do it right, I'd rather it not exist at all. That isn't to say a good port isn't possible, but it's going to take more than 10 minutes with an emulator and converter.
    allengeorge and CJH_ like this.
  13. Masahiro's Avatar
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    #13  

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    If it's a free app, I don't mind. My issue is when I pay for an app and then find out afterwards that it's an Android port.
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  14. RECOOL's Avatar
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    Ports suck.There's crashes,unstable lags,black bars on some apps probably some kind of ad.Poor navigation basic bb10 apps make these ports look slow and poorly designed with the touch options, with no peek and no swiping I hit delete asap im done with ports they suck.

    At the minimum repackage the app with bb10 framework once I cant swipe its over for the app its geting deleted..
    Last edited by RECOOL; 03-05-2013 at 04:06 AM.
  15. CJH_'s Avatar
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    Not every Android Port is rubbish, it depends on the quality of the original app.
    My issue with Ports is a little different, I've spotted several apps in BBW that are Android apps yet the original dev(s) didn't port the app over. Basically, someone's profiting from another's hard work - that needs to stop.

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  16. msps's Avatar
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    #16  

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    No problem with android ports sideloaded, you take a risk,

    The problem starts, when lagging, hardly usable 'professionally ported with BB assistance' droid app shows up in BB world
    and new BB user has no idea why the app he's just paid for sucks so much.
  17. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #17  

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    One important thing to remember is that the vast majority of people do not complain about android ports, they complain about bad android ports and unfortunately for those people producing good ones, the bad ones seem to be more common and also leaving a more lasting association of bad and android too.
    msps likes this.
  18. CJH_'s Avatar
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    #18  

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    Quote Originally Posted by filmgirl View Post
    Here's the problem: most of the ports suck. Whether it is poor coding on the Android side or poor performance on the Android runtime VM, I don't know, but 95% of the Android ports I've downloaded have been bad. Now, to be fair, most of the native apps I've downloaded for the Z10 suck too. The general developer skill on BB10 just doesn't appear to be as good as on iOS. You see this on Windows Phone too -- and even Android. Apps I bought for the iPhone in 2008 were often better coded and more developed than a 2013 BB10/Windows Phone 8/Android app -- it is what it is.

    I can understand not wanting to demoralize devs that port their apps. It's awesome that SignEasy (an app I've been using since like 2010, awesome app) ported for you, seriously, they deserve serious props. Still, at the same time I've spent about $75 testing various apps for my job (I'm a tech journalist/analyst) and while I can expense the purchase, the average user can't. If I paid for a crappy port (and SignEasy is free and from what I can tell a decent port, not talking a out them), I would be PISSED.

    That's the problem.

    Even apps from companies I like -- such as Songza (their CEO is in my address book, I love Songza) are going to get an earful from me when their ported app fails and crashes when attempting to do a Facebook login (that embarrassingly has a "download FB for Android link in the iframe). It's amateur hour and I put most the blame on BlackBerry for being way too lax in trying to push as many Android ports as possible.

    Here's my biggest issue with ports: 99% of those developers never even tested their app on an actual BB10 device. Instead they just ran it through the converter, passed the unit test and hit submit. If that's all a dev is going to do (making an exception for port requests like SignEasy), why should we give them a golf clap for showing up?

    And for what it's worth -- I say the same thing about Android apps that are clearly recycled iOS ports. In a lot of cases, if you can't do it right, I'd rather it not exist at all. That isn't to say a good port isn't possible, but it's going to take more than 10 minutes with an emulator and converter.
    Thanks for common sense.
    Since Android became more popular, more new apps have have debuted on that platform than iOS. Eventually, we'll see less and less new apps on all platforms as stagnation sets in.

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  19. allengeorge's Avatar
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    Or maybe someday people will start using all HTML5 apps (unlikely, but I can dream :P)
    Terminal Musings: http://www.allengeorge.com
  20. CJH_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allengeorge View Post
    Or maybe someday people will start using all HTML5 apps (unlikely, but I can dream :P)
    You want a Firefox phone then. ><

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  21. dbarz's Avatar
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    #21  

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    What people forget is for android phones owners,which is the largest base of smart phone owners, they ONLY have android apps. When android gets an app everyone cheers, when blackberry gets the exact same android app everyone frowns and label it as a bad app?

    Don't get me wrong, I prefer native but android apps are good enough for the millions of Android users so don't bash it.
    Plus even on Android phones the android apps are not native because the Android platform is not made for any specific hardware.

    posted via the CB app on my Z10
  22. UMLD's Avatar
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    Just give me apps that work. Many many of the Android apps work very well, and yet they still get irrationally slammed in the reviews for not being native. You can just tell by reading the reviews, and the names of the reviewers, that there's people out there simply going through the apps looking for android ports to put up a whiney "Whaaaa! It should be native!", and not even mentioning if the app works well or not. It's just plain silly imo.
  23. Majestic Lion's Avatar
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    Yes, because wanting (more) secure apps where the user has control over what kind of access is granted to varying info on the OS, specifically built for their platform of choice, is unreasonable. Poor Android devs, life is so unfair.


  24. toujours_frais's Avatar
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    Android port apps are good... FOR NOW!
  25. Darlaten's Avatar
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    I completely disagree with the OP. I have always maintained from day one that android on any blackberry product was, and is, a mistake. I will never put an android app on my device and see nothing wrong wrong with telling developers why I will not download or purchase their apps.

    Certainly, I agree that you don't néed to go out and bash the developer and resort to name calling or other rude comments as what has occurred on some reviews. Thats childish and unacceptable. But indicating your preference for native apps - there is nothing wrong with that.

    My wallet is more then open to support those individuals who go native. I'm more than happy to pay for that and will go out of my way to download apps that I may not even use if they are native just to show my support to these developers. But it is completely closed for Android. And always will be.
    The Z10 will be my last BB phone; switching platforms.
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