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  1. DuexNoir's Avatar
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    #126  

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    To me, personally, it doesn't matter if I've seen all that BB10 has to offer because I am still excited to actually get my hands on what I've seen so far. However, I don't believe what we've seen is all there is to the entire system. Plus, majority of consumers will still be wowed at launch because they have not seen as much as those who follow fan sites like us.

    I'm betting there will be some people who will watch videos of the launch and the debut of BB10 with an attitude that underestimates the OS: ie. "That nice but it's not that cool"...However, once they see people or their friends using the system in real life...curiosity will pique...they start playing around with the system...and then maybe they'll think "Wow...this is actually quite neat!". I've seen that happen.
    I use BB10...the blasphemy!
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  2. kuffkuff's Avatar
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    #127  

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    Most of the leaks are planned IMHO. And you know something is up when certain things never get leaked.

    1. Processor specs have never been revealed.
    2. headline apps have never been leaked
    3. The newer functionality has only been leaked to the bare minimum - voice control, map navigation, bbm video chat, screen sharing. - these have been functional on internal builds since december


    Anyone with a keen eye will realise we keep seeing the same information being leaked over and over, just differently. What has been leaked is designed to maintain momentum and get potential buyers into the mindset that they NEED to "check out that blackberry 10" when it launches.

    The launch will serve to confirm a lot of the leaks as well as provide depth to them and introduce the headline apps and finer points of the software.
  3. derpOverflow's Avatar
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    #128  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    So you mean like BlackBerry 10 does?

    BlackBerry 10 doesn't multitask like the PlayBook does, at least not yet. There is no "all singing all dancing" like there was on the PlayBook. You can't take the video player, YouTube, Pandora, all 4 Angry Birds games and need for speed and let them all run at once and hear and see them running in the background. With BlackBerry 10, you minimize a game or a video and it stops. It pauses the instant it enters the background. The only exceptions are the same exceptions made with iOS. Apps like Pandora will play audio while in the background, but pretty much everything else pauses and in some cases gets killed to free up resources for other tasks. Browser tabs included. There is no opening the browser to a YouTube song list, then sending the browser to the background while you listen to tunes like the PlayBook allows you to do.

    Android's allegedly inferior multitasking will at least allow you to see two apps running on the same screen. I can watch a video while I compose an email or surf the internet on Android, I can't do that with BlackBerry 10. Look at the latest Galaxy devices and the ICS powered Optimus G. With those, you can actually see two apps running at once. You can see a ton of apps running at once on the PlayBook. That isn't the case with BlackBerry 10 so far. I've yet to see a single example of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than what I have seen certain ICS and Jelly Bean devices do. If you have an example, I'd love to see it.
    Suppose each of these operating systems was running on a single core CPU, only one program can run at a single time, they are just switching so fast between all of them that they appear to the end user like they are actually all running simultaneously. Each of the operating systems(iOS, Android, BB10, WP8) has a list of programs running at the same time, so they are all capable of multitasking. The difference is which operating system is the most efficient at starting and stopping programs so that it doesn't feel like they are actually switching back and forth. What makes QNX a real time OS is that it can guarantee a response time to an event, it's designed to respond to important events(that are dictated by the programmer) which is why it multitasks so well. Its certainly capable of running multiple windows at the same time....every OS is. It can already run a carousel of apps at the same time as cards, it is not magic to make two of them fill up the screen beside eachother.
  4. Admorris's Avatar
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    #129  

    Default Re: My Personal Opinion. I think we have already seen the best that BB10 has to offer

    Quote Originally Posted by derpOverflow View Post
    Suppose each of these operating systems was running on a single core CPU, only one program can run at a single time, they are just switching so fast between all of them that they appear to the end user like they are actually all running simultaneously. Each of the operating systems(iOS, Android, BB10, WP8) has a list of programs running at the same time, so they are all capable of multitasking. The difference is which operating system is the most efficient at starting and stopping programs so that it doesn't feel like they are actually switching back and forth. What makes QNX a real time OS is that it can guarantee a response time to an event, it's designed to respond to important events(that are dictated by the programmer) which is why it multitasks so well. Its certainly capable of running multiple windows at the same time....every OS is. It can already run a carousel of apps at the same time as cards, it is not magic to make two of them fill up the screen beside eachother.
    Where in the **** do you BB guys get your technical information? Good lord

    Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
  5. derpOverflow's Avatar
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    #130  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admorris View Post
    Where in the **** do you BB guys get your technical information? Good lord

    Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
    That is exactly how it works.
  6. Admorris's Avatar
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    #131  

    Default Re: My Personal Opinion. I think we have already seen the best that BB10 has to offer

    Quote Originally Posted by derpOverflow View Post
    That is exactly how it works.
    You lost cred on your very first sentence when you said one core can run only one program at a time.


    And Android can have two programs actually RUNNING at the same time...like two videos. No, it's not magic, it's not an illusion...it's innovation...something no one else seems to care about over the past 3-4 years.

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  7. derpOverflow's Avatar
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    #132  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admorris View Post
    You lost cred on your very first sentence when you said one core can run only one program at a time.

    Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
    It can run a single thread at a time. Although a program can be made up of many threads so actually sometimes it can only run part of a program at a single time.

    And to the part you added in later, they could have 100 videos running at the same time if they had a good enough processor and enough memory. Its an illusion though because they aren't actually running at the same time(unless you have multiple cores), they are just switching back and forth so fast that it seems that way.
  8. samab's Avatar
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    #133  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    So you mean like BlackBerry 10 does?

    BlackBerry 10 doesn't multitask like the PlayBook does, at least not yet. There is no "all singing all dancing" like there was on the PlayBook. You can't take the video player, YouTube, Pandora, all 4 Angry Birds games and need for speed and let them all run at once and hear and see them running in the background. With BlackBerry 10, you minimize a game or a video and it stops. It pauses the instant it enters the background. The only exceptions are the same exceptions made with iOS. Apps like Pandora will play audio while in the background, but pretty much everything else pauses and in some cases gets killed to free up resources for other tasks. Browser tabs included. There is no opening the browser to a YouTube song list, then sending the browser to the background while you listen to tunes like the PlayBook allows you to do.

    Android's allegedly inferior multitasking will at least allow you to see two apps running on the same screen. I can watch a video while I compose an email or surf the internet on Android, I can't do that with BlackBerry 10. Look at the latest Galaxy devices and the ICS powered Optimus G. With those, you can actually see two apps running at once. You can see a ton of apps running at once on the PlayBook. That isn't the case with BlackBerry 10 so far. I've yet to see a single example of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than what I have seen certain ICS and Jelly Bean devices do. If you have an example, I'd love to see it.
    The only multitasking that matters is that QNX/BB10 will run the actual cellular telephone functions, the whole GUI and your apps all together. iOS and Android both have to use a second OS (iOS uses ThreadX) to run the cellular telephone functions.

    It is this distinction that QNX (as a real time operating system) will never allow you to drop a telephone call while you launch your Angry Birds game --- also allows you to play a HD video in the background without any stuttering. The playing of a HD video in the background without stuttering is just a bonus in terms of multitasking. The real prize is running the baseband telephone calls under a single OS along with the GUI and your apps.
    sf49ers likes this.
  9. Admorris's Avatar
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    #134  

    Default Re: My Personal Opinion. I think we have already seen the best that BB10 has to offer

    Quote Originally Posted by derpOverflow View Post
    It can run a single thread at a time. Although a program can be made up of many threads so actually sometimes it can only run part of a program at a single time.

    And to the part you added in later, they could have 100 videos running at the same time if they had a good enough processor and enough memory. Its an illusion though because they aren't actually running at the same time(unless you have multiple cores), they are just switching back and forth so fast that it seems that way.
    I hope you're kidding. And I hope you're not working in the tech industry.

    Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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  10. derpOverflow's Avatar
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    #135  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admorris View Post
    I hope you're kidding. And I hope you're not working in the tech industry.

    Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
    That's how it works
  11. Rickroller's Avatar
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    #136  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    The only multitasking that matters is that QNX/BB10 will run the actual cellular telephone functions, the whole GUI and your apps all together. iOS and Android both have to use a second OS (iOS uses ThreadX) to run the cellular telephone functions.

    It is this distinction that QNX (as a real time operating system) will never allow you to drop a telephone call while you launch your Angry Birds game --- also allows you to play a HD video in the background without any stuttering. The playing of a HD video in the background without stuttering is just a bonus in terms of multitasking. The real prize is running the baseband telephone calls under a single OS along with the GUI and your apps.
    I'm not sure how this is a distinction to QNX, seeing's how I'm able to do this currently on my Android phone.
    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all." -Sam Ewing
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  12. Rickroller's Avatar
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    #137  

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    That's how it works
    - Said the uninformed consumer
    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all." -Sam Ewing
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  13. edyb's Avatar
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    #138  

    Default My Personal Opinion. I think we have already seen the best that BB10 has to offer

    I agree with the original poster.

    RIM has made the most revolutionary change in it's history ever going from their OS7 to OS10. That itself was a monumental feat that consumed the company for 2 years, but it was an investment in themselves to allow them going forward for the next 10 years and ability to expand and build upon this QNX platform.

    I don't expect to see everything, and I hope not to. I think we see BB10 helping to stop the loss of Blackberry users for now and maybe winning some back. I expect more dev support over time, more must-have apps, and more efficient RIM concentrating on a few devices (like Apple) so it becomes a more profitable company.

    I want RIM to give us a solid experience, not one with many features that are half-baked or buggy. So if it takes time, let them take time and do it right. We don't want another "Mapplegate" or similar problem.

    Let us hope for a solid BB10 adoption and slow but steady growth that puts them ahead of Windows phone. Rome was not conquered in a day.


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  14. derpOverflow's Avatar
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    #139  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    - Said the uninformed consumer
    That is literally how it works.

    jeez I thought I was complimenting Android by saying it can multitask!!
    Last edited by derpOverflow; 01-16-2013 at 01:49 PM.
  15. Rickroller's Avatar
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    #140  

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    Quote Originally Posted by derpOverflow View Post
    That is literally how it works.

    jeez I thought I was complimenting Android by saying it can multitask!!
    I thought you were saying that only QNX does "real" multitasking, while the Android multitasking is simply an illusion, making me think it's running two programs at once when it's simply switching back and forth so fast that my mind thinks it's running them simultaneously. Much like how David Blaine tricks me into thinking he's levitating when *SPOILER ALERT* he's really not.
    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all." -Sam Ewing
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  16. Saiga's Avatar
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    #141  

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    I'm still waiting to see an example of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than Android.

    Rickroller had no trouble finding a great example of how well Android can multitask. Seems like it would be even easier to find evidence of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than that. Considering that for months we've seen people going on and on about "real-time os" that and "industry leading multitasking" this.

    I think a lot of people here should lower their expectations a tad bit. I'm sure BlackBerry is capable of doing some great things. But so far, I haven't seen any evidence of it doing any of those great things. I certainly haven't seen it multitask as well as Android will.

    High expectations = a invitation for disappointment.
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  17. derpOverflow's Avatar
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    #142  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    I thought you were saying that only QNX does "real" multitasking, while the Android multitasking is simply an illusion, making me think it's running two programs at once when it's simply switching back and forth so fast that my mind thinks it's running them simultaneously. Much like how David Blaine tricks me into thinking he's levitating when *SPOILER ALERT* he's really not.
    No I'm saying Android and Qnx both work that way. So yes it is switching back and forth every few extremely small fractions of a second but it happens so fast that you can't tell the difference.
  18. samab's Avatar
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    #143  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    I'm not sure how this is a distinction to QNX, seeing's how I'm able to do this currently on my Android phone.
    Except that Android OS doesn't run the baseband functions --- there is a second OS that runs the baseband functions on Android phones.
  19. Rickroller's Avatar
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    #144  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Except that Android OS doesn't run the baseband functions --- there is a second OS that runs the baseband functions on Android phones.
    If the end result is the same, then what is the difference?
    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all." -Sam Ewing
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  20. Admorris's Avatar
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    #145  

    Default Re: My Personal Opinion. I think we have already seen the best that BB10 has to offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    I'm still waiting to see an example of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than Android.

    Rickroller had no trouble finding a great example of how well Android can multitask. Seems like it would be even easier to find evidence of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than that. Considering that for months we've seen people going on and on about "real-time os" that and "industry leading multitasking" this.

    I think a lot of people here should lower their expectations a tad bit. I'm sure BlackBerry is capable of doing some great things. But so far, I haven't seen any evidence of it doing any of those great things. I certainly haven't seen it multitask as well as Android will.

    High expectations = a invitation for disappointment.
    You won't find an example today, you won't find one a month from now...the reason being is that it doesn't and will not exist any time in the near future.

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  21. Rickroller's Avatar
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    #146  

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    Quote Originally Posted by derpOverflow View Post
    No I'm saying Android and Qnx both work that way. So yes it is switching back and forth every few extremely small fractions of a second but it happens so fast that you can't tell the difference.
    I see. As a consumer, I suppose the only thing that matters to me is the end result. This is a big question I hope to get answered when BB10 is released, will I be able to perform multiple functions at the same time, similiar to what can be done with the Note 2 (and now GS3 i believe). Obviously this level of muti-tasking might not be useful for everyone, but I do find it useful and use it in almost every situation with my Note 10.1 tablet.
    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all." -Sam Ewing
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  22. samab's Avatar
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    #147  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    I'm still waiting to see an example of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than Android.

    Rickroller had no trouble finding a great example of how well Android can multitask. Seems like it would be even easier to find evidence of BlackBerry 10 multitasking better than that. Considering that for months we've seen people going on and on about "real-time os" that and "industry leading multitasking" this.

    I think a lot of people here should lower their expectations a tad bit. I'm sure BlackBerry is capable of doing some great things. But so far, I haven't seen any evidence of it doing any of those great things. I certainly haven't seen it multitask as well as Android will.

    High expectations = a invitation for disappointment.
    As I said earlier, the only thing that matters is that QNX runs the baseband (as well as the GUI and the apps) --- which is not the case in Android and iOS. Everything else (i.e. playing a HD video in the background without stuttering) is just a by-product of that. That is just the bonus.

    Each Android manufacturer decides on which "modem" chipset to run and which RTOS to run the baseband.

    Baseband Processor Boot ROM - MILEDROPEDIA

    BP firmware - MILEDROPEDIA

    Many Android phones use Nucleus RTOS to run the baseband (which Apple also used Nucleus OS in iphone 1 - iphone 3).

    Mentor Embedded Nucleus Real Time Operating System Used in Over 2.3 Billion Mobile Platforms, Reports VisionMobile Study - Mentor Graphics

    Some uses a Qualcomm integrated chipset which requires a hypervisor, a RTOS and Android OS --- that's 3 operating systems.

    Open Kernel Labs Embedded Hypervisor Enriches First Android Phone : VMblog.com - Virtualization Technology News and Information for Everyone

    You run 3 operating systems and you are going to lose a lot of CPU power just on that overhead. That's the real benefit of BB10's multitasking --- there is no CPU power wasted on a hypervisor.
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  23. derpOverflow's Avatar
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    #148  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    I see. As a consumer, I suppose the only thing that matters to me is the end result. This is a big question I hope to get answered when BB10 is released, will I be able to perform multiple functions at the same time, similiar to what can be done with the Note 2 (and now GS3 i believe). Obviously this level of muti-tasking might not be useful for everyone, but I do find it useful and use it in almost every situation with my Note 10.1 tablet.
    I'm hoping they do this with the Playbook BB10, so that you can have two screens side-by-side...especially browser tabs. As far as the phones go though, you are out of luck for dual screen. I'm positive I saw a youtube video of an interactive frame with a video playing...hopefully they let you set it to showcase mode like on the Playbook that just eats away at your battery but looks nice lol
  24. samab's Avatar
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    #149  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    I see. As a consumer, I suppose the only thing that matters to me is the end result. This is a big question I hope to get answered when BB10 is released, will I be able to perform multiple functions at the same time, similiar to what can be done with the Note 2 (and now GS3 i believe). Obviously this level of muti-tasking might not be useful for everyone, but I do find it useful and use it in almost every situation with my Note 10.1 tablet.
    Probably not --- even the Playbook ships with default multitasking NOT at the all singing all dancing mode.

    There are 2 main benefits to QNX --- it is a RTOS and it is "safety" certified.

    RTOS means that there is no need for a second OS to run the baseband functions. If you have an iphone or a non-Qualcomm integrated chipset Android phone --- that's the set-up --- one RTOS (nucleus RTOS or ThreadX RTOS for the baseband processor) and iOS/Android OS for the application processor. If you have a Qualcomm integrated chipset Android phone --- the set-up is a hypervisor + a baseband RTOS + Android OS.

    "Safety" certified means that there is no need for to boot up a second "safety" certified OS anytime when you tried to watch netflix, make a mobile payment, or do corporate email --- which is what Android is doing anytime you watch netflix HD.

    You take out the CPU overhead and you are going to have a faster phone with better battery life.
  25. Rickroller's Avatar
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    #150  

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    Quote Originally Posted by derpOverflow View Post
    I'm hoping they do this with the Playbook BB10, so that you can have two screens side-by-side...especially browser tabs. As far as the phones go though, you are out of luck for dual screen. I'm positive I saw a youtube video of an interactive frame with a video playing...hopefully they let you set it to showcase mode like on the Playbook that just eats away at your battery but looks nice lol
    If BB10 is set up the way I'm thinking it will be set up, then side by side screens may not be necessary (on the phones at least). Side by side screens are great for things like watching a video or browsing the web while also being able to reply to a message without pausing the video or losing your web page. However, if the Hub works in the way I'm thinking it will, you could be watching a video, get a message, swipe left to open the Hub (which should leave the video still playing in the background), open your message and reply, and then swipe right to get back to your still playing video. This essentially is accomplishing the same task, albeit in a different way. How the Hub will actually work is a big question, as i'm wondering if you're in the Hub and open a SMS convo, if you swipe right to go back to whatever you were doing before, if that convo is left open in the Hub, or if it goes back to it's default screen (as this would mean having to re-open the Hub, and then re-open the SMS convo, taking more steps than needed). How all this is handled will probably be the deciding factor as to whether I jump on board and try it, or wait for the GS4.
    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all." -Sam Ewing
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