My Personal Opinion. I think we have already seen the best that BB10 has to offer
- I agree with you somewhat (the op)... I think that RIM HAD to show EVERYTHING before launch because if they just dropped all this info and a week later said BUY IT there wouldnt be much hype. The hype has been snowballing for a couple of months and when everything is official I think even one or two 'new' new features would suffice.
Even if everything they have to offer has already been shown... im still getting one. It looks MUCH better than iOS, and everyone I know who have actually used it (admittedly only a couple) LOVE IT. With all the haters posting positive articles im really thinking that we need to make a 'Haters gonnahaterepent' banner. lol01-14-13 10:23 PMLike 0 - I honestly dont expect to see any major surprises come the 30th.
I think we've already seen the biggest features that BB10 has to offer.
The reason for this is because i read somewhere that in an interview that a RIM exec stated that their target with BB10 is 3rd, once they have 3rd wrapped up, they will shoot for second, then 1st in the mobile market.
This along with the fact that BB10, so far, offers nothing to tempt away fans of the other platforms, is what makes me think there is not much more to see from BB10. At best BB10 can grab the casual users of other platforms which by itself is no insignificant number.
There is a misconception about RIM saying they're aiming for 3rd place. They never actually said that.If you look at the quote from Thorsten (from AGM i think? or maybe BBWorld), he says he's aiming to be the 3rd mobile platform. Note how he doesn't say 3rd ranked platform. What he was trying to convey was that RIM wants to be that 3rd option on the market, as opposed to WP8 (or tizen, sailfish, firefox os etc if they ever come out). It's a given that they'll try to be ranked #1, just like it's a given that #1 will remain with apple for the time being (and #2 with android)01-14-13 10:56 PMLike 3 - I am READY for them to announce that BBM will be avilable for each and every type of cell phone OS in the world! BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! High, but false wishes lolCairnsRock likes this.01-14-13 11:45 PMLike 1
- You could be right OP. Rumor mills are becoming increasingly accurate in the tech world. Look at when the iPad Mini came out, the only thing left unknown was the price, plus the iPad 4, which was a real surprise being 6 mos after iPad 3.
If all of the UI is known as you say that leaves:
Apps
Price
Availability dates for both models.
BB10 on Playbook availability.
Anything else?magutwit likes this.01-15-13 12:11 AMLike 1 - The point being made about the General Public is a very good one. The vast majority are currently unaware that BB10 is even coming, so all the stuff we've seen leaked in the techblogsphere will come as a big surprise to them. Ultimately BB10 Launch isn't aimed at the likes of us. It is aimed at the Great Unwashed.
Lets hope they like what they see01-15-13 06:31 AMLike 3 - I know, I'm one of the person who already leaked several features that you can found in blackberry 10 OS. But, I have a feeling that what I see will not hurt RIM at all. Why, because they already safe the best for the launching. What I already saw and share is just a beta OS. And it's not a final one, a Gold OS which will you get when you purchase the BB10 Handset. No one ever saw the final BB10 OS one. Not yet. Because RIM R n D and Devs are working on to make the OS more perfect than what we see right now.
So, you can expect surprises from RIM on Blackberry 10. No need to worry about it. Btw, I even didn't do deep explore in Blackberry 10. There so many ways to make Blackberry 10 more powerful than nowadays. IMHO.Thunderbuck and magutwit like this.01-15-13 06:43 AMLike 2 - I think we need to bear in mind what hints we have been given about "mobile computing". This is what the big thing will be about -deep integration of BB10 with other devices all around us -our car, our TV, our stereo, our fridge, our desktop PCs and tablets, even our space station. What was just a mobile phone with Internet access and lots of small programmes to perform various useful functions will become a central control device linked in to all the other gadgets around us. That is the real meaning and power of BlackBerry Hub. And it will be able to do these things because QNX, the basis of BB10, is already in lots of these devices. Microsoft should be seriously worried, because Windows 8 has been poorly received, and sales of desktop PCs have dropped by about 5%. Tablets are taking over many things that PCs were used for, and BB10 is going to be in there. Remember, IBM was top dog once, and everyone thought their position was unassailable. Now where are IBM?
I could be wrong, but everything I have heard and read on this forum over the past two years strongly suggests it. So I am on the edge of my seat waiting for January 30th.01-15-13 07:36 AMLike 0 - The problem once again with RIM and Blackberry is that their marketing absolutely sucks. There is NO ONE...not one person who knows a damn thing about BB10 besides people on here. There is 0 excitement being built up in the lead up to this all or nothing launch. For this to be as make it or break it as it is, this could possibly be the worst marketing campaign in tech history...just ahead of the Playbook launch. I had hopes for BB10 a while back, but now I'm starting to understand the phrase, "the best predictor of someone's future is their past". They are making the same mistakes that got them to where they are and that will get them the same results they have always had. Just the fact that on the most celebrated BlackBerry forum in existence people are talking about no "wow" factor and a "boring" design spells doom for this release and most likely for RIM. If they have any big surprises left for launch, they will be behind the scenes stuff that the general public could care less about. Sure, techies on here may eat up some type of extra super duper security feature or whatever, but that doesn't make the average joe walking in to a store to buy a phone excited. Mark my words, this phone and launch is going to be a miserable failure and this site is going to be LOADED UP with complaints and sob stories within days of the big launch.
I will list the mistakes of this phone that will ultimately kill it in the marketplace:
1. 4.2" screen is too small this day and age. People are used to 4.5" and bigger. This will turn people away before even taking a look at the OS. Apple is starting to feel the effects of their 4" screen already (cutting production by 50%). The only reason they have hung on as long as they have is because of their past. If they continue on with their mentality, they will be insignificant in the mobile world within 4-5 years. In doubt they will make that mistake however.
2. No widgets (or eye candy) - the average joe wants their phone to look good when they turn it on. This OS looks boring...as boring as iOS. There is no consistent home screen. From what I can tell, the active icon screen disappears if they are all gone and defaults to the first page of apps? That will be confusing to most and iOS boring for all.
3. Active icons (whatever they are called) just look old and outdated. The icons should have rounded edges. Another mistake is having them constantly change based on how often you use them. They need to be able to be set up statically. I don't want to have to guess where my active icon is every time I flip to that page and I suspect most won't like that either.
4. Peek feature is a complete rehash of Android, but from the side and not top. I see no real world advantage of this over Android and once again, I suspect it will get blasted as a "copy" of android by most that take a quick look at it while browsing through their mobile store.
5. Icons look terrible...worse than iOS and considerably worse than Android...I mean bad bad bad. They are far too large for the smaller screen size (which makes the screen look even smaller).
6. As listed above... marketing. BB's marketing could be the worst marketing of any tech company in history. No lead up for a make it or break it unveiling leads to death. Look no further than the Playbook as proof of this. This will be an exact repeat of that product. While it is a decent product, most people walking in best buy or wherever to buy a tablet don't even know that the Playbook exists. And when a sales guy shows it to the customer, all the customer knows is that it's a blackberry and quickly moves on. This will happen to the BB10 as well.
7. Keyboard/camera - while the keyboard looks interesting, I can guarantee you that most will be able to type faster on a normal touchscreen keyboard and could care less about flicking words up to the screen. Sometimes things that work don't need to be changed just for the sake of change...this is one of them. The camera does nothing that the newer Samsung phones don't do. My Note 2 (as well as the S3) can change faces individually...that will be a feature that neither attracts nor pushes people away from the phone, therefore it is a dead feature (bb needs excitement, not status quo).
My main point in this rant is that it may very well be an OK phone, but OK is not what BB needs right now...they need something that actually attracts customers. They need something that makes a customer want to buy by just looking at it without a sales guy coming over to explain features in order to make them buy it. What I'm saying is BB10 needs to be marketed where people are going to the store to buy the phone out of excitement, not just learning about the phone for the first time while they're looking at other phones. If the latter is the case, then it will lose every time based on the things I have pointed out above. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, as competition is a great thing, but I would bet that this launch will be an abject failure.
Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2Last edited by Admorris; 01-15-13 at 08:42 AM.
01-15-13 08:10 AMLike 0 -
1. 4.2" screen is too small this day and age. People are used to 4.5" and bigger. This will turn people away before even taking a look at the OS. Apple is starting to feel the effects of their 4" screen already (cutting production by 50%). The only reason they have hung on as long as they have is because of their past. If they continue on with their mentality, they will be insignificant in the mobile world within 4-5 years. In doubt they will make that mistake however.
2. No widgets (or eye candy) - the average joe wants their phones to look good when they turn it on. This OS looks boring...as boring as iOS. There is no consistent home screen. From what I can tell, the active icon screen disappears if they are all gone and defaults to the first page of apps? That will be confusing to most and iOS boring for all.
3. Active icons (whatever they are called) just look old and outdated. The icons should have rounded edges. Another mistake is having them constantly change based on how often you use them. They need to be able to be set up statically. I don't want to have to guess where my active icon is every time I flip to that page and I suspect most won't like that either.
4. Peek feature is a complete rehash of Android, but from the side and not top. I see no real world advantage of this over Android and once again, I suspect it will get blasted as a "copy" of android by most that take a quick look at it while browsing through their mobile store.
5. Icons look terrible...worse than iOS and considerably worse than Android...I mean bad bad bad. They are far too large for the smaller screen size (which makes the screen look even smaller).
6. As listed above... marketing. BB's marketing could be the worst marketing of any tech company in history. No lead up for a make it or break it unveiling leads to death. Look no further than the Playbook as proof of this. This will be an exact repeat of that product. While it is a decent product, most people walking in best buy or wherever to buy a tablet don't even know that the Playbook exists. And when a sales guy shows it ton the customer, all the customer knows is that it's a blackberry and quickly moves on. This will happen to the BB10 as well.
RIM did run a decent television ad campaign for the PlayBook. The problem was that the product itself was priced the same as the iPad but lacked its functionality. I think just about everyone will concede that that was a blunder, but there's no evidence that BB10 will repeat it. On the contrary, BB10 gives every impression of being fully functional from day one, although we don't know about certain apps.
7. Keyboard/camera - while the keyboard looks interesting, I can guarantee you that most will be able to type faster on a normal touchscreen keyboard and could care less about flicking words up to the screen. Sometimes things that work don't need to be changed just for the sake of change...this is one of them. The camera does nothing that the newer Samsung phones don't do. My Note 2 (as well as the S3) can change faces individually...that will be a feature that neither attracts nor pushes people away from the phone, therefore it is a dead feature (bb needs excitement, not status quo).
My main point in this rant is that it may very well be an OK phone, but OK is not what BB needs right now...they need something that actually attracts customers. They need something that makes a customer want to buy by just looking at it without a sales guy coming over to explain features in order to make them buy it. Nothing I have seen so far does this...it just looks like a mix between android and iOS. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, as competition is a great thing, but I would bet that this launch will be an abject failure.01-15-13 09:13 AMLike 17 - If what you say is true, I feel bad for the vast majority of people buying phones today. I think that Android and iOS make up the vast bulk of user today because of the quantity and quality of apps and the ease of use/familiarity of user interface. The sexiness factor applies, especially with iPhone, but unless people are complete idiots, it is a distant third in the decision making process.
Just addressing your points,
1. Screen size, specifically width, for iPhone is based on the range of motion of your thumb. It's meant to maximize the ability for one-handed use. BlackBerry has increased the width slightly because it is more practical for two-thumb typing, but the keyboard, with swipe-able words on keys takes one-handed typing to a new level of efficiency. A big screen for the sake of looking at content is the Android way. Users still care about one-handed use and input efficiency.
2. By widgets, I'm guessing you mean functional home screen objects... like the Active Frames, Search and Camera icons, the things most people want at the ready. Android will always win on customization, but many customers are frustrated by skins and widgets imposed by manufacturers and want a clutter-free, minimalist look.
3. You're argument is that they are not rounded... okay. Though not announced, Kevin and others have discussed a "hanging frame" function that pins active frames in place. Seems like a no-brainer that will likely be implemented.
4. Peek isn't a pull-down notification menu. It looks at your notifications AND your actual unified inbox "Hub" and lets you decide whether to go into the Hub or not. From any app.
5. You're right, I don't like many of the native app icons either, but third party icons are essentially the same as on any other OS. Clearly you though the extra row of icons on the iPhone 5 was groundbreaking.
6. Mainstream marketing can be found on retail (Futureshop) and carrier websites, as well as major print newspapers. I think the web campaign has been pretty good so far. Positive buzz is being created on major tech blogs with the harshest RIM critics like Gizmodo, Engadget and the Verge. Retail locations will be setup with demo hardware and staff trained to show people the greatness of the product.
7. Refer to point 1. The size, layout, and software underlying the keyboard already makes it the best typing experience on glass. Flicking up words may be unnecessary for fast two thumb typers, but it will blow away the competition in one-handed typing. And not to say that the time-warp feature doesn't exist elsewhere, but Apple has built an empire on making old features sexy. It's a great, practical feature and if RIM has nailed the implementation, it will attract the shutterbugs.
Not trying to be troll here, but your entire rant is a subjective view from a user accustomed to Android. Android manufacturers are doing quite well doing their Android thing, those that can turn a profit anyway. RIM isn't looking to make a big-screened phone with a shotgun approach to features. It is focusing on what it does best in order to best meet the needs of its target market.01-15-13 09:20 AMLike 0 - If what you say is true, I feel bad for the vast majority of people buying phones today. I think that Android and iOS make up the vast bulk of user today because of the quantity and quality of apps and the ease of use/familiarity of user interface. The sexiness factor applies, especially with iPhone, but unless people are complete idiots, it is a distant third in the decision making process.
Just addressing your points,
1. Screen size, specifically width, for iPhone is based on the range of motion of your thumb. It's meant to maximize the ability for one-handed use. BlackBerry has increased the width slightly because it is more practical for two-thumb typing, but the keyboard, with swipe-able words on keys takes one-handed typing to a new level of efficiency. A big screen for the sake of looking at content is the Android way. Users still care about one-handed use and input efficiency.
2. By widgets, I'm guessing you mean functional home screen objects... like the Active Frames, Search and Camera icons, the things most people want at the ready. Android will always win on customization, but many customers are frustrated by skins and widgets imposed by manufacturers and want a clutter-free, minimalist look.
3. You're argument is that they are not rounded... okay. Though not announced, Kevin and others have discussed a "hanging frame" function that pins active frames in place. Seems like a no-brainer that will likely be implemented.
4. Peek isn't a pull-down notification menu. It looks at your notifications AND your actual unified inbox "Hub" and lets you decide whether to go into the Hub or not. From any app.
5. You're right, I don't like many of the native app icons either, but third party icons are essentially the same as on any other OS. Clearly you though the extra row of icons on the iPhone 5 was groundbreaking.
6. Mainstream marketing can be found on retail (Futureshop) and carrier websites, as well as major print newspapers. I think the web campaign has been pretty good so far. Positive buzz is being created on major tech blogs with the harshest RIM critics like Gizmodo, Engadget and the Verge. Retail locations will be setup with demo hardware and staff trained to show people the greatness of the product.
7. Refer to point 1. The size, layout, and software underlying the keyboard already makes it the best typing experience on glass. Flicking up words may be unnecessary for fast two thumb typers, but it will blow away the competition in one-handed typing. And not to say that the time-warp feature doesn't exist elsewhere, but Apple has built an empire on making old features sexy. It's a great, practical feature and if RIM has nailed the implementation, it will attract the shutterbugs.
Not trying to be troll here, but your entire rant is a subjective view from a user accustomed to Android. Android manufacturers are doing quite well doing their Android thing, those that can turn a profit anyway. RIM isn't looking to make a big-screened phone with a shotgun approach to features. It is focusing on what it does best in order to best meet the needs of its target market.
Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 201-15-13 09:35 AMLike 3 - I don't consider you a troll at all...I enjoy thoughtful, intelligent responses. If anything, people probably consider me a troll for playing the devils advocate on here...Lol. I guess we just have a difference of opinion on what defines a successful launch for BB10. Most on here (and yourself) consider it a successful event if BB fires up its base of users. I don't consider that a success. I believe in order for BB10 to be considered a success, it HAS to pull customers away from Android and iOS and build its base. And based on that theory, it has to separate itself from those two with new and exciting features. I just don't see that they are doing that. They are joining the game late with very similar features and in some cases, less features. I don't see how that is a winning formula. Hope I'm wrong!
Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2Admorris likes this.01-15-13 09:38 AMLike 1 -
Actually, as far as Apple, you should check their sales in the first and even second years, they were nowhere near an overnight success.01-15-13 10:08 AMLike 0 - Indeed, with the incessant need for some people to leak stuff, a regular visitor to sites like this is going to have less surprises than other people, but there will still be some.01-15-13 10:15 AMLike 0
- if i knew that i wouldnt be surprised
but for the sake of argument, lets try some hypothetical examples
something BB10 integrates with your car's qnx system allowing you to give voice commands on the move, which can be used from anything like making phone calls, playing music or asking to navigate to a loacation. spoken through your bb10 phone and appearing on your car's qnx screen.
As for what surprises will be shown off come Jan 30, I agree with the OP and don't expect anything mind blowing to be demonstrated. I'm hoping to see some demos of some actual multi-tasking similiar to what Samsung's are currently able to do. I'd also like to see some DLNA abilities for wirelessly streaming and whatnot, although I know these things aren't important to everybody. I also am hoping for some confirmation on the supposed Apollo series, as this rumoured 5" beast really has peaked my curiousity.Blacklatino likes this.01-15-13 10:15 AMLike 1 - 1. Screen size, specifically width, for iPhone is based on the range of motion of your thumb. It's meant to maximize the ability for one-handed use. BlackBerry has increased the width slightly because it is more practical for two-thumb typing, but the keyboard, with swipe-able words on keys takes one-handed typing to a new level of efficiency. A big screen for the sake of looking at content is the Android way. Users still care about one-handed use and input efficiency.01-15-13 10:20 AMLike 0
- At this point, I have a similar concern. However, I want the best BlackBerry that RIM can build- today. RIM needs to focus on getting back in the game with new devices with specs that are "on point" with current devices on the market or better. Refreshes will probably cause some concern......pending on what is actually upgraded.
sent from my sexy PlayBook using Tapatalk2 (*_~)01-15-13 10:26 AMLike 0 - one thing we havent seen confirmed and only hinted at that would be a good "wow" factor is the screen sharing. I think this is cool and to have that built in is fantastic. Hopefully we see it at launch and it will wow some people01-15-13 10:35 AMLike 3
- I don't think for ONE second that we have seen all the features. WHY on earth would RIM give phones to devs fully loaded with all the integrated features?? So they can leak them? It's been said many times that "RIM has made sure some things have been kept well hidden before that launch". It makes no sense to release dev alpha phones with a fully loaded os only to be leaked, I doubt they are that dumb.01-15-13 11:27 AMLike 0
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My Personal Opinion. I think we have already seen the best that BB10 has to offer
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