[Omnitech]

Since support for apps using Adobe's AIR application runtime environment will be dropped with BB10 OS 10.3.1, I'd like to see a list of existing BB10 AIR apps, so I have a sense of what will stop working as of 10.3.1. (Unless the developer chooses to the re-write the app, of course.)

Shall we compile an informal list here, or does someone know of an official one somewhere?

[nappp]

A comment for Speed Tester in BlackBerry World say that it will end

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

A comment for Speed Tester in BlackBerry World say that it will end

Thanks, I see that now.

[KermEd]

I have a few hundred apps I've built that will be killed. Of those maybe 40 will be immediately noticed. And 5-10 have significant enough users to warrant a 'must rewrite'

[LostOnThePianoRoll]

I have a few hundred apps I've built that will be killed. Of those maybe 40 will be immediately noticed. And 5-10 have significant enough users to warrant a 'must rewrite'

Is the rewriting a hassle or is it more copy paste into different containers?

Posted via CB10 from my Z10STL100-1/10.3.0.442

[KermEd]

Is the rewriting a hassle or is it more copy paste into different containers?

Posted via CB10 from my Z10STL100-1/10.3.0.442

Full rewrite

I have plans to abandon about a hundred - the rest under review. But some of those are BAR files kicking around CrackBerry and not in Appworld.

My good friend Joe is helping rewrite Night Ports. Secure AntiVirus and Secure Browser are 'started' in cascades. RPG Quest I may abandon. Android Reset tool, HTML Edit. Text Edit. Telnet. Fate unknown. Trying to prioritize.

Media connect has to be abandoned it can't be recreated in HTML5 or Cascades. Isheep is a dumb app I made on request for someone on here it will die. Mr Nibbles. Dat's a Bingo. Chomper. Those will go iOS and Android only.

My learning apps for people and screen saver apps (Flying Toaster etc) will either go Android only or just let em die.

My in flight AIR apps are dead as well. Including minOs - which is a Windows clone OS I was writing that uses SWF files as applications (think mini os you can install any apps). And I have a half coded RPG I'll just kill I think.

Most notably - any fixes to the above applications are also killed over the next 6 months. So if it's buggy... cei la vie

You can get an idea of what apps are impacted here:
http://supportforums.blackberry.com/...nt/bd-p/tablet

Provided the developer is active on BlackBerry support forums. Most developers aren't.

Posted via CB from my LE

[Omnitech]

Isheep is a dumb app I made on request for someone on here it will die.

Heh. Kris Simundson turned me on to that. It was funny for a while.

You can get an idea of what apps are impacted here:
Adobe AIR Development - BlackBerry Support Community Forums

Thanks, looks helpful.

From the first thread I perused, this app I've heard of (but don't use) seems to be an AIR app:

Polarbear.

[anon(4044683)]

Why can't AIR be made available on BBWorld for download like it is available on PlayStore? I guess most of the PlayBook and BB10 apps will disappear. BlackBerry should not have included AIR from the beginning if there was an issue, now after convincing a lot of devs to create AIR apps and the users will be pissed off that some of the downloaded apps will stop working. Poor planning execution by BlackBerry.

[Omnitech]

BlackBerry should not have included AIR from the beginning if there was an issue, now after convincing a lot of devs to create AIR apps and the users will be pissed off that some of the downloaded apps will stop working. Poor planning execution by BlackBerry.

I don't know about that. Platforms drop support for things all the time.

People complained loudly and bitterly when certain parts of the OS itself (ie the Settings app) were originally written in Air and were widely perceived to be slow and sluggish. And Adobe's media platforms do not have the cachet they once had. AFAIK BB10 is the ONLY mobile platform that still supports Flash, Adobe has dropped it from all the others and the Flash revision in BB10 is now so old that all sorts of modern content won't run on it anyway.

[anon(4044683)]

Average customer will get pissed off when most of the downloaded apps won't work anymore.

I don't know about that. Platforms drop support for things all the time.

People complained loudly and bitterly when certain parts of the OS itself (ie the Settings app) were originally written in Air and were widely perceived to be slow and sluggish. And Adobe's media platforms do not have the cachet they once had. AFAIK BB10 is the ONLY mobile platform that still supports Flash, Adobe has dropped it from all the others and the Flash revision in BB10 is now so old that all sorts of modern content won't run on it anyway.

[KermEd]

Average customer will get pissed off when most of the downloaded apps won't work anymore.

True. AIR apps will not be available through appworld if you have 10.3.1. And any AIR apps you have on your device will be removed when you upgrade to 10.3.1. Or at least that's how Tim Neil explained it to me.

AFAIK BB10 is the ONLY mobile platform that still supports Flash

Good points - one important clarification though. Flash and AIR are different. iOS and Android both still fully support AIR (the hard part is implementing it at the start. Maintenance is minor effort). I haven't been able to get a straight answer from BlackBerry regarding Flash life cycle planning.

Agreed on the AIR OS experience. The problem is each IDE is good for a specific task set. AIR is great for unique UI's and small implementations (think semi transparent overlaying cards - which cascades doesn't do - or flash in a webview - also can't do). It's a bad idea for running an entire OS UI. But developers like me who built from the start had to build with AIR. It was the only package available at the time. So it kind of penalizes the older developers on BlackBerry or at least annoys us pretty good .

Developers do have an option though. If you didn't make your AIR apps targeted for BlackBerry, we are advised to port to Android and back port to BlackBerry. I warned Tim sending devs to Android is a scary suggestion. Or to rewrite them completely in WebWorks.

Be interesting to see what impact - if any - this has on some developers. I would love it if they actually would hand over an app list . Myself, it's irritating for sure. It's disheartening. And it does feel like your contributions have little value on the platform. But I will get over it

Posted via CB from my LE

[Omnitech]

Average customer will get pissed off when most of the downloaded apps won't work anymore.

Where do you come up with the claim that "most" downloaded apps from BlackBerry World for BB10 devices are AIR apps?

I cannot believe that is even remotely true.

[Omnitech]

Good points - one important clarification though. Flash and AIR are different.

I realize that - I was drawing a picture about Adobe's overall value to the platform. When BB10 was first introduced, Flash web content compatibility was one of its headline features. Now Flash is pretty much dying and something that must be continuously patched to address security vulnerabilities - which is not feasible on BB10 due to the carrier-gating of OS updates, which ends up making Flash more of a liability than a benefit. Especially since the world is mostly moving beyond Flash anyway.

It's nice to have Adobe Reader bundled with BB10 but the implementation is so crippled I'm not sure how useful it is. I cannot even view "file properties" on a PDF file, something I am constantly using on the desktop platforms to see, e.g., when a PDF file was generated. (Some people null-out that data but that's the exception - sometimes it's the only way to get a sense of the vintage of some product or technology when the vendor is otherwise unwilling to make it clear in their materials themselves.)

[KermEd]

I realize that - I was drawing a picture about Adobe's overall value to the platform.

Ah yes, no that's fair enough. Adobe application support has been tough since the PlayBook . I remember when it wouldnt even render many PDF's.

Posted via CB from my LE

[tgillan]

Full rewrite

I have plans to abandon about a hundred - the rest under review. But some of those are BAR files kicking around CrackBerry and not in Appworld.

My good friend Joe is helping rewrite Night Ports. Secure AntiVirus and Secure Browser are 'started' in cascades. RPG Quest I may abandon. Android Reset tool, HTML Edit. Text Edit. Telnet. Fate unknown. Trying to prioritize.

Media connect has to be abandoned it can't be recreated in HTML5 or Cascades. Isheep is a dumb app I made on request for someone on here it will die. Mr Nibbles. Dat's a Bingo. Chomper. Those will go iOS and Android only.

My learning apps for people and screen saver apps (Flying Toaster etc) will either go Android only or just let em die.

My in flight AIR apps are dead as well. Including minOs - which is a Windows clone OS I was writing that uses SWF files as applications (think mini os you can install any apps). And I have a half coded RPG I'll just kill I think.

Most notably - any fixes to the above applications are also killed over the next 6 months. So if it's buggy... cei la vie

You can get an idea of what apps are impacted here:
http://supportforums.blackberry.com/...nt/bd-p/tablet

Provided the developer is active on BlackBerry support forums. Most developers aren't.

Posted via CB from my LE

Wouldn't it be possible to offer the android versions of some of your apps in BlackBerry World?

Posted via CB10

[abass]

Average customer will get pissed off when most of the downloaded apps won't work anymore.

lol.. The average consumer has very few if any apps that are built in AIR. For nearly any worthwhile AIR App available in BBW, there is a better working native version of it (if not, the AIR dev now has motivation to make their app native). I personally have no AIR apps installed on my phone, nor does my mother, step-dad, brother, step-brother, aunt, uncle, or cousin. I find it interesting that you chose to use the word "most" when in reality that is not true in the slightest. Maybe one or two apps will be removed from the average consumer's phone, if any, nothing to throw a hissy-fit over. They are trying to adapt BB10 for the future and AIR is not as powerful enough, not to mention, it's a huge waste of resources for them to continue supporting it in the platform, docs, etc. It's not a big deal.

[KermEd]

Wouldn't it be possible to offer the android versions of some of your apps in BlackBerry World?

Posted via CB10

Good questions.

If the developer didn't use any BlackBerry SDK's, isn't BFB and doesn't use anything like shared folders on the phone - you certainly could.

Some developers like me are taking this opportunity to start focusing on Android more directly. The question I am asking myself is why build for Cascades (bbry only) when we can cover 2 platforms by building native for Android?

It's a good question that I think we investigate as individuals

...the AIR dev now has motivation to make their app native...

As for the suggestion above... That's a nice, but you have 2 apps (I think) in BlackBerry World... And that took you six months or so to get them out? I may rewrite 2 or 3 for BlackBerry users. But the opportunity for us isn't to go to Cascades - its to go to native Android.

The android runtime is constantly improving. And BlackBerry will always keep that support alive. I see less value in Cascades so I can limit my life to QML, JavaScript and a single platform.

Posted via CB from my LE

[miguel89to]

I do have a feeling once and if BlackBerry picks up, they'll drop the runtime.


Posted via CB10 app with my trusty Z10

[KermEd]

I do have a feeling once and if BlackBerry picks up, they'll drop the runtime.

Posted via CB10 app with my trusty Z10

It's possible, but based on BlackBerry timeliness and history... I think they are more likely to drop webworks first and push those developers through the android runtime.

Either way at least in that case - our apps are still available on Android.

Posted via CB from my LE

[abass]

Good questions.

If the developer didn't use any BlackBerry SDK's, isn't BFB and doesn't use anything like shared folders on the phone - you certainly could.

Some developers like me are taking this opportunity to start focusing on Android more directly. The question I am asking myself is why build for Cascades (bbry only) when we can cover 2 platforms by building native for Android?

It's a good question that I think we investigate as individuals



As for the suggestion above... That's a nice, but you have 2 apps (I think) in BlackBerry World... And that took you six months or so to get them out? I may rewrite 2 or 3 for BlackBerry users. But the opportunity for us isn't to go to Cascades - its to go to native Android.

The android runtime is constantly improving. And BlackBerry will always keep that support alive. I see less value in Cascades so I can limit my life to QML, JavaScript and a single platform.

Posted via CB from my LE

Going the Android route is just fine. I mean you don't have to go to cascades, why not consider going to HTML5 as it'd be cross platform and definitely supported for a while. Sure for the short-term BlackBerry will have the Android Runtime, but that'd be the next thing they axe if they ever do decide to axe anything else (even 5 years down the line). The safest bet is probably HTML5 if you want cross platform native and to be around for a while.

It's possible, but based on BlackBerry timeliness and history... I think they are more likely to drop webworks first and push those developers through the android runtime.

Either way at least in that case - our apps are still available on Android.

Posted via CB from my LE

Strongly disagree.. Webworks is here to stay, it's the most cross platform of them all, so much can be said by the simple fact that the BB10 browser is built off of HTML5 (Webworks). I personally am not a big fan of webworks, but I would never entertain the idea that they would axe it. Ultimately what would be best would be for all platforms to move to webworks and all the same apps could be on all platforms. This whole BS with different platforms having different native code is irritating to devs and not conventional for growing the ecosystems. Webworks is getting better each and every day, if anything the Android Runtime is the band-aid fix, not webworks. I love Cascades and highly recommend learning it, it's not that complex and all and it's so robust. But then again, you'd be committing to the BlackBerry ecosystem and ignoring android, but you'd sell much more on blackberry then you ever would with an android port, so it's a tradeoff. You just have to decide what ecosystem you can make more money from, for me it's BlackBerry so I love cascades and embrace it. And my user-base appreciates that my app is native cascades rather than being like an Android port.

[KermEd]

...why not consider going to HTML5 ...
...Webworks is getting better each and every day...

A couple of quick points. I already have a dozen webworks apps . ADT gives me a much bigger bang on Android. And html5 is not consistent enough across platforms for me. The apps I have are not conducive to moving to HTML5. And Cascades does not support features I need for others.

...you'd sell much more on blackberry then you ever would with an android port, so it's a tradeoff...

That assumes selling primarily on BlackBerry. I do well on iOS and Android as it is. I wouldn't make a single penny more if I spent 8 months recoding my AIR apps to Cascades or WebWorks. At best I could sustain my current blackberry income, which is not a great incentive.

TBH, I don't have a single reason to stand by BlackBerry at this point. It's just as easy to uproot to Android / iOS . And certainly more attractive than wasting 8 months building what I can into Cascades just to get no farther ahead.

I get how you feel. But it's disheartening for me and clearly they have no value on my time or effort. But whatever - that was their decision and they expect a handful of folks like me to be irritated collateral damage.

Posted via CB from my LE

[Omnitech]

And Cascades does not support features I need for others.

Caveat: I am not a developer and I have not reviewed the various available development platforms in detail.

That said, it is my impression that Cascades - while certainly useful - has some annoying UI limitations that prevent you from solving certain problems in an app.

The one that I often encounter relates to navigation, ie scrolling and paging. I do NOT want all scrolling to be "endless scrolling", because I think it's a resource hog and it prevents me from going back to a particular place easily. I also do not like the end-of-page mechanism, case in point CB10. I cannot tell you how many times I have accidentally gone to the next page in that app simply because the "bounce at the bottom of page" is too inclined to go to the next page when you hit it unexpectedly while scrolling to the bottom trying to read the last post on that page.

I don't know if that specific thing is endemic with Cascades but I can tell you that there are a variety of similiar navigational issues that seem to be consistently limited in Cascades apps. I also think that Cascades UI elements often waste a huge amount of screen space, particularly on the small square screen like Q10. I've never personally owned one of them but when I was helping a friend with theirs recently I was shocked at how much of that smaller screen was taken-over by oversized UI junk that made it seem smaller than it already is.

In short: I think Cascades needs to be aggressively improved over time, to address its own limitations.

TBH, I don't have a single reason to stand by BlackBerry at this point. It's just as easy to uproot to Android / iOS.

I certainly understand the numerical draw of the huge Android ecosystem, but by the same token it's far easier to be "invisible" on that platform unless you have a truly amazing app. (Or a lot of connections, or something.)

[KermEd]

In short: I think Cascades needs to be aggressively improved over time, to address its own limitations...

I certainly understand the numerical draw of the huge Android ecosystem, but by the same token it's far easier to be "invisible" on that platform unless you have a truly amazing app. (Or a lot of connections, or something.)

I'm still surprised you aren't actually! You're a technical person with a good understanding of systems - it should be a natural fit for you. And you can take criticism, so I'd think it would be natural for you in that regard too (as balancing ROI is a challenge)

Your absolutely right - there are a couple additional issues for me with Cascades that cause very specific issues. I love it's possibilities but it isn't all encompassing. Oddly, I have 2 applications I can't bring simply because the web view in cascades doesn't support flash and it's required for those integrations.

Your last point is what has exactly keep me bouncing around a bit. Plus I know I'm annoyed with BBRY, so trying not to make a rush decision.

What I have found, oddly, is that apps I released with no advertising and at 99c saw 10x the sales on iOS over Android. But my freebie apps - sans marketing - see a surprising larger download number on Android.

I'm hoping to get an inapp & advert based set of games out in the next few months to complete my analysis (assuming I ignore rebuilding the AIR apps). Most of the code is done for both... But the motherboard on my laptop needs to be replaced (I got carried away fixing an Arduino on my Robo 3D printer... and discovered the hard way my USB port didn't have a diode blocking voltage back up the line - sizzle sizzle pop! Aww f...). But at least I fixed the printer.

Posted via CB from my LE

[Omnitech]

I'm still surprised you aren't actually! You're a technical person with a good understanding of systems - it should be a natural fit for you. And you can take criticism, so I'd think it would be natural for you in that regard too (as balancing ROI is a challenge)

Thanks for the kudos. Just too many fish to fry, and learning programming - while something that's in the "big list" - is not anywhere near the top of that list.

What I have found, oddly, is that apps I released with no advertising and at 99c saw 10x the sales on iOS over Android. But my freebie apps - sans marketing - see a surprising larger download number on Android.

Not sure why that would be surprising. I thought it was an accepted fact that Android users are obsessed with Free Stuph, and iOS users are not afraid to pay money for things. (As have Apple customers been for years, or they wouldn't be paying premiums for Apple products all that time)

But the motherboard on my laptop needs to be replaced (I got carried away fixing an Arduino on my Robo 3D printer... and discovered the hard way my USB port didn't have a diode blocking voltage back up the line - sizzle sizzle pop! Aww f...).

Oh man, that sux. Damn cheapo hardware, that's a good reminder. About the cheapo Arduino port and the fact that if you break a single port on a laptop, you're typically screwed.. (So wait - you're saying not just the USB port fried but the voltage zapped the entire board? Ewwww...)

I wonder if I should worry about the Raspberry Pi I have here in that respect too.

[Gearheadaddy]

My Mini Cooper manual no longer works "Mini on Track" needs Air to work. Darn shame...

Trusted Member Genius on Verizon 10.3.0.296/442