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  1. duth's Avatar
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    Default Launch of BB10, consider it to be Worldwide not just US/Europe

    I found this article on the web The Bottom of Pyramid Strategy | The great potential of the Bottom of Pyramid and I must say, many of us westernised people just think to narrowly about who has buying power and who is considered the target market ! I really appreciate Thorsten Heinz as CEO, because he knows which potential BB10 has around the globe. And some American analyst should not be the one to tell us what and how the launch is going to happen.


    Really looking forward to BB10
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    Well it made me smile a little (wasn't really worth responding to at the time) when you had North American people talking about advertising during the Superbowl because of the audience it gets - but the thing is, outside North America, it doesn't. They just add up the populations of the countries that take the feed and talk about a potential global audience (they're not alone in doing that). Now I don't say this to have a dig or anything, but sponsoring an Indian one day or T20 cricket match is going to get an absolutely vast TV and radio audience too, but it barely ever gets thought about, because it's not in the US or Europe - a perfect example.
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    I think the issue with Superbowl ads is more than just a bias towards north america, it is more to do with a combination of the timing of the sb and the bb10 launch lining up very closely with the need for bb10 to arrest the slide in marketshare over there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    I think the issue with Superbowl ads is more than just a bias towards north america, it is more to do with a combination of the timing of the sb and the bb10 launch lining up very closely with the need for bb10 to arrest the slide in marketshare over there.
    Oh certainly so - and I wasn't for a moment decrying the need or desirability of that over there. Just commenting that it occurred to me at the time I read it that you can get vast TV audiences elsewhere and few in our countries would be even aware of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    Well it made me smile a little (wasn't really worth responding to at the time) when you had North American people talking about advertising during the Superbowl because of the audience it gets - but the thing is, outside North America, it doesn't. They just add up the populations of the countries that take the feed and talk about a potential global audience (they're not alone in doing that). Now I don't say this to have a dig or anything, but sponsoring an Indian one day or T20 cricket match is going to get an absolutely vast TV and radio audience too, but it barely ever gets thought about, because it's not in the US or Europe - a perfect example.

    Indeed another interesting thought on the topic..I am currently searching for a topic to write my master thesis about. The thing about the Superbowl and BB10 launch creates certain analogies, which I presumably think are more count to an American/European patriotism than just with audiences. I think that it is in a certain way our condescending view upon these countries that lets us assume that their "values" are half important than ours. (with values meaning technological development etc.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    Well it made me smile a little (wasn't really worth responding to at the time) when you had North American people talking about advertising during the Superbowl because of the audience it gets - but the thing is, outside North America, it doesn't. They just add up the populations of the countries that take the feed and talk about a potential global audience (they're not alone in doing that). Now I don't say this to have a dig or anything, but sponsoring an Indian one day or T20 cricket match is going to get an absolutely vast TV and radio audience too, but it barely ever gets thought about, because it's not in the US or Europe - a perfect example.
    While there is probably too much focus from the Media on RIM and how it is doing in the US, there is an issue with this statement. Here are the launch cities, and probably the 6 markets that are wave 1: USA, Canada, UK, France, UAE and South Africa. The US has a population of more than 92 Million more than the other five countries combined at 315 Million total! The Super Bowl last year had an average of 111.5 Million viewers, or over a third of the population, and it will be more this year as it grows every year. You probably can't get more exposure with a single ad, in one of the largest markets that happens to line up the weekend after the BB10 launch. They should definitely advertise in other markets and other sporting events, but to dismiss the Super Bowl because it is almost exclusive American audience is foolish. Most people in the US would rather watch paint dry than a cricket match because it is basically a non-existent sport here, but I would never say RIM shouldn't advertise in a cricket match because US doesn't watch them. Soccer and Rugby are more popular internationally than American Football, but they also don't offer much commercial time due to the nature of the gameplay and no time off until halftime which is why you see the boards around the pitches to advertise. American Football offers plenty of opportunities for commercials. RIM needs to be advertising heavily in all the markets they launch in, and people in the US know that the Super Bowl is a great opportunity and lines up with the launch and will have more people watching it than the populations of the lowest three markets on that list of 6 launch city/country combined.
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    Superbowl ad will help to correct US consumers' mindset on BB too. In UK, Canada, and France BB is diminishing but nowhere near as badly perceived as in US. UAE and SA are still quite strong I believe. So not only will a Superbowl ad reach more people as other posters have said, it will probably be more effective in terms of gaining consumers that couldn't otherwise have been picked out through cheaper advertising methods/carrier influence.
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    You're misunderstanding me if you think I am criticising RIM should they advertise during the Superbowl. I am not remotely refuting its importance to the US market, nor the importance of the US market itself. I merely pointed out that a western-centric approach generally forgets that you can reach huge numbers of people for things that wouldn't enter a north American mindset. Responding to the initial post, nothing more. Don't read more into it than is there.
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    Superbowl placement would be great. It doesn't even have to be a commercial more than 45 seconds. I think a dramatic series (2-3) short commercials during superbowl that air chronologically during the game (not during half time) would make more sense, and be more dramatic. Now if they manage to do this, and get some product placement in some of these big movies coming out in 2013, now you are talking.

    One of the things I remember the most about Jurassic Park as a youngin' was that they had the Mercedes Benz ML truck in the movie. That was the first time I was old enough to understand product placement; and actually thought it was cool. I wanted that truck so bad as a little 10yr old kid, because no one else had it, and it was in the biggest movie of the year. With all this being said, 27 More Days!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    You're misunderstanding me if you think I am criticising RIM should they advertise during the Superbowl. I am not remotely refuting its importance to the US market, nor the importance of the US market itself. I merely pointed out that a western-centric approach generally forgets that you can reach huge numbers of people for things that wouldn't enter a north American mindset. Responding to the initial post, nothing more. Don't read more into it than is there.
    It also seems as though you may have misunderstood the Super Bowl ad comment. There wasn't an attempt to point out a world wide marketing campaign, just merely pointing out the timing, the money, and referencing the Super Bowl based on that timing, the notorious million dollar ad spots, as well as its the only televised event I know of where large quantities of people admittedly tune in for, exclusively for the commercials. A large singular opportunity to reach a lot of people. They just happen to be mostly north american bound, but don't be fooled into thinking the Super Bowl is only viewed in the US market....
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    It also seems as though you may have misunderstood the Super Bowl ad comment. There wasn't an attempt to point out a world wide marketing campaign, just merely pointing out the timing, the money, and referencing the Super Bowl based on that timing, the notorious million dollar ad spots, as well as its the only televised event I know of where large quantities of people admittedly tune in for, exclusively for the commercials. A large singular opportunity to reach a lot of people. They just happen to be mostly north american bound, but don't be fooled into thinking the Super Bowl is only viewed in the US market....
    A couple of things there, yes it is viewed outside the US, but in international sporting terms it is tiny internationally. US sports just aren't that big around the world. The second, and by far more important point is that unless the advertising is embedded in the live feed of the action, outside countries will not see your advertising. They carry their own.

    None of which remotely ignores the importance of the event to the US market.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    A couple of things there, yes it is viewed outside the US, but in international sporting terms it is tiny internationally. US sports just aren't that big around the world. The second, and by far more important point is that unless the advertising is embedded in the live feed of the action, outside countries will not see your advertising. They carry their own.

    None of which remotely ignores the importance of the event to the US market.
    RIM is not going to blow their load on the Super Bowl, and this close minded American knows that they will market outside the US.... the super bowl is simply the first big opportunity to show off the finished product with massive exposure. Nobody expects them to stop their, even we close minded Americans....

    Just curious, what non North American event provides the equivalent exposure for your country of residence? The one where a large portion of the viewers tune in exclusively for the advertising?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    RIM is not going to blow their load on the Super Bowl, and this close minded American knows that they will market outside the US.... the super bowl is simply the first big opportunity to show off the finished product with massive exposure. Nobody expects them to stop their, even we close minded Americans....

    Just curious, what non North American event provides the equivalent exposure for your country of residence? The one where a large portion of the viewers tune in exclusively for the advertising?
    I'm really not sure why you're so defensive on this. The Superbowl is massively important for the north American market in terms of advertising all sorts of things, not just mobile phones. It's a given, it's a known, and it's something that's extremely important. For RIM, who do need to win back US market share, it's one possibly way they can do it.

    All I was doing was making the point that there are sporting events outside of your country - and mine, this is the point! - that get massive audiences too, yet don't appear on the radar for most of us. Hence the example of a cricket match involving India.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    I'm really not sure why you're so defensive on this. The Superbowl is massively important for the north American market in terms of advertising all sorts of things, not just mobile phones. It's a given, it's a known, and it's something that's extremely important. For RIM, who do need to win back US market share, it's one possibly way they can do it.

    All I was doing was making the point that there are sporting events outside of your country - and mine, this is the point! - that get massive audiences too, yet don't appear on the radar for most of us. Hence the example of a cricket match involving India.
    Not defensive, sarcastic....

    Carry on, I'll leave you alone now.......
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    We should all agree its too bad that the World Cup isnt this year!

    Quote Originally Posted by FIFA
    The 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa™ was shown in every single country and territory on Earth, including Antarctica and the Arctic Circle, generating record-breaking viewing figures in many TV markets around the world. The in-home television coverage of the competition reached over 3.2 billion people around the world, or 46.4 per cent of the global population, based on viewers watching a minimum of over one minute of coverage. This represents an eight per cent rise on the number of viewers recorded during the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany™.

    Based on viewers watching a minimum of 20 consecutive minutes of coverage, the 2010 tournament reached nearly a third of the world population with 2.2 billion viewers, or three per cent higher than in 2006, according to data compiled by KantarSport on behalf of FIFA. The average in-home global audience for each match was 188.4 million, up six per cent on 2006, while the highest average audience measured was for the final at 530.9 million, up five per cent on 2006.
    ~S_A
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    Not defensive, sarcastic....

    Carry on, I'll leave you alone now.......
    Pretty defensive. But to answer your specific point about a non-north American event that provides equivalent exposure in the UK to the Superbowl, the answer would be almost any major sporting event anywhere. American football isn't very popular at all amongst the wider population. The matches that are held at Wembley here give a misleading impression about the game's popularity because it's a special event people can go to, and expats also pile in as you'd expect. It does OK, and there's an interest level without question. But it's not a major event, any more than for example Premier League football in the US. That too has an audience and a passionate one at that - but not a big one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    Pretty defensive. But to answer your specific point about a non-north American event that provides equivalent exposure in the UK to the Superbowl, the answer would be almost any major sporting event anywhere. American football isn't very popular at all amongst the wider population. The matches that are held at Wembley here give a misleading impression about the game's popularity because it's a special event people can go to, and expats also pile in as you'd expect. It does OK, and there's an interest level without question. But it's not a major event, any more than for example Premier League football in the US. That too has an audience and a passionate one at that - but not a big one.
    Why do I even attempt this..... (sarcasm). I wrote my own post, I wrote it intending to be mostly sarcastic, I think I would know this about my own intent.......

    For the record, I didn't ask what event gets equal coverage as the Super Bowl where you live. I asked what is your equivalent to the American event. For example, does the Tour de France garner the level of viewership in France, as the the Super Bowl does in the US? I know that it does not, but what is that sport in your country of residence? I'm asking for the sake of asking, because I'm curious, not because I'm adding to the worldwide marketing campaign discussion for RIM (sarcasm). What event in your country do viewers tune in to, so they may watch and enjoy the commercials? You cannot possibly say every sporting event and be serious.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    Why do I even attempt this..... (sarcasm). I wrote my own post, I wrote it intending to be mostly sarcastic, I think I would know this about my own intent.......

    For the record, I didn't ask what event gets equal coverage as the Super Bowl where you live. I asked what is your equivalent to the American event. For example, does the Tour de France garner the level of viewership in France, as the the Super Bowl does in the US? I know that it does not, but what is that sport in your country of residence? I'm asking for the sake of asking, because I'm curious, not because I'm adding to the worldwide marketing campaign discussion for RIM (sarcasm). What event in your country do viewers tune in to, so they may watch and enjoy the commercials? You cannot possibly say every sporting event and be serious.....
    It's not remotely how it came across, but OK, let's put it down to a misunderstanding.

    I don't think there is an equivalent in terms of the advertising. Truly I don't think there is. When I read people talking about the importance (and cost!) of advertising in the Superbowl, I don't think there's any kind of comparison. Now, you would know this better than me as to whether it's a reasonable point they make, but I've seen people write here that Superbowl adverts are part of the TV experience, and it's absolutely, totally the opposite here. It's when people go and make a cup of tea, go to the loo, do absolutely anything except watch adverts. In the advertising industry it's a known phenomenon that the British are incredibly hard to gain the attention of for television commercials, because for cultural reasons we loathe being sold to.

    And this is why, when you have something that captures the national imagination, and is shown on multiple channels, people will watch it on the BBC rather than the commercial channel - without fail and without exception, the BBC will dominate the ratings. No adverts there you see...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    It's not remotely how it came across, but OK, let's put it down to a misunderstanding.

    I don't think there is an equivalent in terms of the advertising. Truly I don't think there is. When I read people talking about the importance (and cost!) of advertising in the Superbowl, I don't think there's any kind of comparison.
    ...
    This is my point entirely. The Super Bowl is the only televised event where we throw large parties (there is an annual one at my home each year) and spend money to feed and entertain on a grand scale. It is the only event where during the commercials, viewers stay in front of the TV, and don't head for the restroom or drink refills. The single and only event of the year like this.

    Yes, advertisement spots are grossly expensive, but are also planned and produced with their significance in mind. The following day, even the morning news programs will recap the "top ten" commercials of the event. No other sporting event comes close, no other televised event can think of attempting this level of interest.

    So for RIM to capitalize on this opportunity, so close to launch is just golden because it's the only time, especially early in the game, large amounts of potential buyers will be listening to what they (RIM) have to say. That doesn't mean an American recognizing the opportunity, is dismissing the importance of advertising elsewhere. Nor does it mean they think a Super Bowl ad is worldwide reaching and the end all be all.....

    RIM won't be the first, and surely won't be the last (should they even decide to advertise via the Super Bowl) to debut a new product with a kick rear ad during the Super Bowl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    This is my point entirely. The Super Bowl is the only televised event where we throw large parties (there is an annual one at my home each year) and spend money to feed and entertain on a grand scale. It is the only event where during the commercials, viewers stay in front of the TV, and don't head for the restroom or drink refills. The single and only event of the year like this.

    Yes, advertisement spots are grossly expensive, but are also planned and produced with their significance in mind. The following day, even the morning news programs will recap the "top ten" commercials of the event. No other sporting event comes close, no other televised event can think of attempting this level of interest.

    So for RIM to capitalize on this opportunity, so close to launch is just golden because it's the only time, especially early in the game, large amounts of potential buyers will be listening to what they (RIM) have to say. That doesn't mean an American recognizing the opportunity, is dismissing the importance of advertising elsewhere. Nor does it mean they think a Super Bowl ad is worldwide reaching and the end all be all.....

    RIM won't be the first, and surely won't be the last (should they even decide to advertise via the Super Bowl) to debut a new product with a kick rear ad during the Super Bowl.
    But I have never remotely suggested that is not the case in the US. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say?

    Can you answer for what a cricket match is like in India? IPL viewing figures for example? The importance and cost of advertising for said IPL matches?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    But I have never remotely suggested that is not the case in the US. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say?

    Well, let's see.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    Well it made me smile a little (wasn't really worth responding to at the time) when you had North American people talking about advertising during the Superbowl because of the audience it gets - but the thing is, outside North America, it doesn't. They just add up the populations of the countries that take the feed and talk about a potential global audience ......
    Its amuses me when people assume what Americans are thinking....

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    Can you answer for what a cricket match is like in India? IPL viewing figures for example? The importance and cost of advertising for said IPL matches?
    I'm an engineer by trade, I can research anything you like, but for this discussion I wont. So I'll just ask two questions; Does the sports largest event line up with the release of BB10? Do those not interested in the sport watch said event for the advertising?

    What about........

    Does the IPL have any competition events in the UK?

    Does the NFL have any competition events in the UK?

    Should I repeat myself, advertising during the Super Bowl is not the end all be all for BB10 marketing, and Americans don't expect it to be....
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    Nope, you've managed to take offence where no slight was intended. Well done. But you have amused me by deciding to know what this British person was thinking - physician, heal thyself.

    It is entirely true that the Superbowl is not a big event outside the US. Why do you seem to think that it is? It's massive domestically for you, and great. But internationally? No. Relatively few sports are truly global, football is, and so is basketball. That's about it. American football is not an international sport to any extent. As for the point about adding up the populations of those countries showing it, that's entirely true. And again (sorry, you obviously took this as a personal slight) they're not alone in doing it that way. I've seen idiotic claims for the FA Cup in England on the same basis.

    The questions you ask are pretty irrelevant to the points I was making since I wasn't talking about RIM specifically - something you said further up yourself, but now apparently you are. You do seem to want to shift the debate to suit your own individual post at any given moment.

    To go back to the very first point, it talked in general terms about outside north America and Europe. Quite why you are bringing the UK into it is beyond me, last time I checked it was definitely in one of North America or Europe.

    Oh and by the way, yes the IPL timing is spot on. But you don't know what the IPL is do you? Which is precisely the point. There's no reason why you should know what it is. It doesn't appear on your radar because cricket is something that has no interest to Americans. Same applies to Europeans with the sole exception of the English.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    Nope, you've managed to take offence where no slight was intended. .
    Wrong....

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    It is entirely true that the Superbowl is not a big event outside the US. Why do you seem to think that it is?.
    I don't, never said I did, only you assume I think that, so wrong again. How many times must I repeat mys..... oh screw it, I'd rather pull my own teeth out at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    (sorry, you obviously took this as a personal slight)
    oops, wrong again.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    The questions you ask are pretty irrelevant to the points I was making since I wasn't talking about RIM specifically - something you said further up yourself, but now apparently you are. You do seem to want to shift the debate to suit your own individual post at any given moment.
    Didn't know I wasn't allowed to ask questions, and I wasn't debating you. I've been trying to clarify what you assumed I was thinking, posing a few questions here and there. How hard it is to get this through in this English language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    To go back to the very first point, it talked in general terms about outside north America and Europe. Quite why you are bringing the UK into it is beyond me, last time I checked it was definitely in one of North America or Europe.
    Those darn curiosity questions again.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    Oh and by the way, yes the IPL timing is spot on.
    Fantastic, you answered my question, and guess what, it was just a question, not a sparring jab in a debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    But you don't know what the IPL is do you? There's no reason why you should know what it is.
    Quite the contrary, but good job assuming again.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    But you have amused me by deciding to know what this British person was thinking - physician, heal thyself
    Glad I could be of service, it was most undelightful for me.



    There I went, breaking my own rule....... how could I have been so foolish to allow this to happen. Shame on me for not recognizing what this was sooner.
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    Nope, you've been argumentative and downright sulking through, when it was a simple point. And once again above. If you wish to ask questions being more constructive helps.

    I've long lost interest.

    Have a wonderful weekend.
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    ...yawn....
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