12-20-13 03:57 PM
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  1. ssbtech's Avatar
    It would be far simpler and cheaper to simply pay a MS Exchange email hosting company a few dollars a month, and it would provide you with 10x the functionality you have now.
    I don't want 10x the functionality I have now, I just want the functionality that I have now.

    No syncing BS, no "all your devices have the same email list" etc... Simple POP. Done.
    02-06-13 02:33 AM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar
    You are correct, My personal address is forwarded to my BB via BIS and my work mail is handled by BES, all on the same device. Seamlessly. It changes my "from" address depending on whether the email I was replying to was sent to the personal or work e-mail, and does the same based on whether the contact I'm emailing is in the address book on the device. Pure email bliss, and it's worked this way since my first BlackBerry. For me, 2 email accounts is all I need.
    So unless you're a fairly recent BB convert, that BES server must have cost you a pretty penny for a single user if you set that up before BESx was introduced, eh?


    I am not currently aware of any mail server software that supports ActiveSync for free, it's usually a paid for (expensive !) add on.
    37 Euros for 5 users as an add-on to the free edition of Axigen.

    I searched a very long time for a low-cost or free email server that didn't have a very low user limit and/or require me to cobble together a bunch of poorly supported open-source stuff and try to keep them all working properly together. I was astounded when I finally ran across their product, and even more surprised to find it's been around a really really long time. (There are one or 2 potentially usable alternatives but they tend to be things you wouldn't want to rely on - ie stuff written by one or 2 people that could just get killed-off tomorrow.)

    So far I've installed Axigen on a CentOS VM but haven't gotten around to configuring it and putting it into test mode yet. Among other things I need to get my VMware server a little more bulletproof (ie get UPS shutdown working) before I'm willing to keep any server VMs running 24x7.
    02-06-13 02:55 AM
  3. abhibh's Avatar
    Omnitech not everyone wants to change their email address or server. I work as an analyst and I handle projects and support to clients with different emails. I have 3 Work emails and 4 Personal (2 i use the other 2 i receive like 10 emails monthly). The problem with anyone cribbing about BIS is that they are used to it.

    Lets take an example:
    If you take away Apps and Games from Android and iOS what's left of it ? Who will buy it ? Same is the case with BB, the BB loyal's buy BB because they are more in communication and socializing than playing games or having entertainment apps on phone. So when you take away BIS from BB its just like any other phone. Why won't one buy Android or iOS because they handle the email same way.

    1. The TRUE PUSH is gone
    2. Encryption is gone
    3. Data compression is gone
    4. You are going to need a bigger data plan from your service provider to access the same amount of email or socializing.
    5. They introduced Video chat over mobile network. What were they thinking. Video chat over mobile network is going to eat all your data.
    02-06-13 03:08 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    Omnitech not everyone wants to change their email address or server.
    Correct. And some people stick to things out of sheer habit or momentum beyond the point where it is practicable. How old is the car you drive?


    1. The TRUE PUSH is gone
    2. Encryption is gone
    3. Data compression is gone
    4. You are going to need a bigger data plan from your service provider to access the same amount of email or socializing.
    5. They introduced Video chat over mobile network. What were they thinking. Video chat over mobile network is going to eat all your data.

    2: Can be accomplished with the right choice of email provider. Not sure if that ever applied to general web traffic anyway.

    3: Same as #2, though there may have been some BIS advantages in some areas, I don't know enough about the architecture to say for sure.

    4: How big that differential is remains to be seen, I can't test the device yet because they're not available here as of the moment. I think the main area it will impact are the people who live in countries where their cellular carrier was giving them free or very cheap (in some cases "unlimited") email/internet access via BIS, which of course meant free BBM too. There was never such an advantage here in the USA - carriers generally require data plans on any smartphone activation anyway.

    5: That feature will probably make a significant positive impact on the public's perception of the product, and it makes carriers happy (and keeps them supporting BB) when vendors like BB give them more opportunities to make money.

    Honestly, if Blackberry did NOT get rid of the BIS requirement, they may have had far fewer carriers supporting their launch of this product, which would have been the biggest disaster of all. No carriers = no phone business. BIS has also been a PR disaster for them since BB is the only smartphone vendor where a glitch in their own network potentially knocks tens of millions of their customers offline.

    So while I agree that some of the BIS features were handy for certain people, it's not without its drawbacks and from a carrier-relationship standpoint they may well have had no real alternative.
    02-06-13 03:40 AM
  5. antikorr's Avatar
    Guys! I know you're all probably infuriated by this whole BIS mess, but may I ask a rather stupid question here? I just wonder HOW will the BlackBerry 10 device work if there's NOTHING BUT BIS on the user's account? Will it work at all? I mean, will it use blackberry.net APN to go to Interntet and do other stuff? Or will it just be hung and asking for a usual data plan?

    Maybe there are some happy users of Z10, who can check this out...

    I'm asking this, 'cause I even deleted the 'GPRS' option on my plan (in Russia this option allows the phone to use carrier's APN to access Internet), and I have only the BIS now. So, all the traffic goes through blackberry.net APN. I did that to preven data leaks and thus extra payments for the Internet.
    02-06-13 03:47 AM
  6. abhibh's Avatar
    Correct. And some people stick to things out of sheer habit or momentum beyond the point where it is practicable. How old is the car you drive?
    12 years OLD and still going strong after 2.5Lac KM's. Thank you very much for asking.

    2: Can be accomplished with the right choice of email provider. Not sure if that ever applied to general web traffic anyway.
    So you want me to change my email provider because the Best communication device cannot handle my email anymore ?

    3: Same as #2, though there may have been some BIS advantages in some areas, I don't know enough about the architecture to say for sure.
    There is advantage and i have tested this over the past few years. My mobile bill gives me the data usage too. I earlier had BBM + Emails only plan with APN / Mobile data plan as individual plan.
    Over the period of 1 year i used Mobile APN and next year i used full BB plan that allows me to browse and FB / Tweet etc. The data usage is like less than half of what it was on Mobile APN Plan.

    4: How big that differential is remains to be seen, I can't test the device yet because they're not available here as of the moment. I think the main area it will impact are the people who live in countries where their cellular carrier was giving them free or very cheap (in some cases "unlimited") email/internet access via BIS, which of course meant free BBM too. There was never such an advantage here in the USA - carriers generally require data plans on any smartphone activation anyway.
    BIS services start here at $2.5 which is BBM only plan. Then there is a $6 plan which has BBM + IM + 10 Emails. Moving on there is a $15 plan which has everything and browsing over device + applications like FB + Tweet and other BB apps use internet on device. The last plan is $20 which allows tethering. All these services have extra TAX on them about 12.5%. And these are extra value added services so they are not included in your monthly plan you opt when buying a new connection. Your monthly rental charges are different from the above.

    Honestly, if Blackberry did NOT get rid of the BIS requirement, they may have had far fewer carriers supporting their launch of this product, which would have been the biggest disaster of all. No carriers = no phone business. BIS has also been a PR disaster for them since BB is the only smartphone vendor where a glitch in their own network potentially knocks tens of millions of their customers offline.

    So while I agree that some of the BIS features were handy for certain people, it's not without its drawbacks and from a carrier-relationship standpoint they may well have had no real alternative.
    Yes for teens and normal people BIS is nothing but its BB's fault not to include it BB10 OS. I have BIS service and i would like to carry it over but now BB actually has given me option to consider other devices iOS, Android, Windows. Because the email is going to work the same way it does on other devices.

    So in a nutshell its BB fault not consumers or carriers. They need to get their $h!t together regarding BIS.
    02-06-13 04:00 AM
  7. Polina Armen's Avatar
    Ok guys, I have the new Z10, probably the first in UK, I had a BB plan with my BOLD 9900, I had my sim cut, inserted in the Z10, and the BB service is running like it did on the BOLD. I have noticed that I can't use the internet nor get email if the BB SERVICE logo is not showing (it happens sometimes because of network interruptions), which I am assuming means, that I still go through the BB server, otherwise it doesn't make sense. So I think everything work as it used to with the BB 7. I still get emails as fast as I did, and BBM works great.
    antikorr likes this.
    02-06-13 04:28 AM
  8. Polina Armen's Avatar
    My plan costs 5 pounds per month everything included, browsing bbm and email. So I don't understand what every one is worried about, if you still want your BB service, just add that to your contract, if you don't need the service, now you can use the BlackBerry like an iphone or android, I think it is great for people who don't need the secure email and bbm.
    02-06-13 04:33 AM
  9. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Does this mean we're going to lose the data compression we currently get with with a BB vs the iCrap or Android?
    Who cares about compression when you can get a 6 GB plan for $20/month and with wifi everywhere? If you can't afford a cell phone, you can always use a pay phone.
    xweb10 likes this.
    02-06-13 04:35 AM
  10. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    I know here all of our BIS plans are unlimited on-device browsing and anything that runs through BIS such as BBM voice, IM+ Skype Voice, etc are also free and unlimited.

    So now I'm going to chew through my 1GB cap easily like when I upload a good couple hundred 5MB photos to Facebook which is normally free on BIS as its under the 8MB limit.

    We don't pay a cent for BIS, its included in plans and prepaid at no extra cost.

    Thanks BlackBerry. You're also going to lose a lot of third world customers as BIS is the rage there as its cheap and normally unlimited for a fixed fee.
    You got it all wrong! BIS sucks. This is a momentous occasion for Blackberry. Those cheap BIS plans are money losers designed to get low income people addicted to a smartphone. I think this is predatory on the part of the cell phone companies. Enticing people who can't afford it, to get addicted to a smartphone.

    Good riddance BIS and the cheap plans that came along with it.

    The reason I went to android and Apple was because of the limitations of BIS. When I traveled abroad, I was not able to use my Blackberry without paying huge roaming fees. Apple and Android allowed me to buy a prepaid data SIM at my overseas destination. I was no longer handcuffed to BIS.

    If you travel around the world, you would know BIS/BES sucks because of the huge roaming fees.
    02-06-13 04:41 AM
  11. PiotrJot's Avatar
    Ok guys, I have the new Z10, probably the first in UK, I had a BB plan with my BOLD 9900, I had my sim cut, inserted in the Z10, and the BB service is running like it did on the BOLD. I have noticed that I can't use the internet nor get email if the BB SERVICE logo is not showing (it happens sometimes because of network interruptions), which I am assuming means, that I still go through the BB server, otherwise it doesn't make sense. So I think everything work as it used to with the BB 7. I still get emails as fast as I did, and BBM works great.
    My plan costs 5 pounds per month everything included, browsing bbm and email. So I don't understand what every one is worried about, if you still want your BB service, just add that to your contract, if you don't need the service, now you can use the BlackBerry like an iphone or android, I think it is great for people who don't need the secure email and bbm.
    Will you be here around after receiving your monthly bill to share your experience then ?
    I truly hope it won't be very painful...
    02-06-13 05:45 AM
  12. antikorr's Avatar
    Polina, thanks a bunch for this info. Your experience leaves a chance for hope, that BIS is not yet dead with BB10.
    02-06-13 06:17 AM
  13. ssbtech's Avatar
    Correct. And some people stick to things out of sheer habit or momentum beyond the point where it is practicable. How old is the car you drive?
    You're suggesting I change all 5 of my @shaw.ca accounts over to Outlook.com or Gmail accounts then go and find any and all sender, be it friends, family, co-workers, subscriptions, etc... and change them over to the new accounts. Then I have to go into Outlook, start over with a new PST file, reconfigure ALL my message rules (of which there must be a couple dozen or more)...

    What a messy job just to try out a new phone.

    No thanks.
    02-06-13 12:08 PM
  14. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    You're suggesting I change all 5 of my @shaw.ca accounts over to Outlook.com or Gmail accounts then go and find any and all sender, be it friends, family, co-workers, subscriptions, etc... and change them over to the new accounts. Then I have to go into Outlook, start over with a new PST file, reconfigure ALL my message rules (of which there must be a couple dozen or more)...

    What a messy job just to try out a new phone.

    No thanks.
    Having an ISP email is asinine. So you expect to be with Shaw for the rest of your life? What if Telus has a better deal next month for internet?

    Your email should be ISP independent and web based. I use Gmail. Message rules are set up once and everything goes into respective folders.

    Get a new email from Gmail or Outlook. On Shaw, set up auto forwarding to your new email and an autoresponse: "I know longer use this email anymore. My new email is......".

    Also, send out an email message to everyone in your address book advising of your new email.

    If I was Shaw, I would double your fees right now because it looks like you are never going to leave them no matter what. You are handcuffed to them over an email service that is very poor.

    Dude, what if you moved and you could not get Shaw in your new location. What if Shaw stopped doing email? What if Shaw was sold or went out of business? You are exposed to unnecessary risks with an ISP email.

    Change is inevitable don't fight it.
    02-06-13 12:27 PM
  15. ubizmo's Avatar
    If you travel around the world, you would know BIS/BES sucks because of the huge roaming fees.
    Tmobile US offers an unlimited interenational BB email option for $20/month, pro-rated if you go abroad for less than a month. Last year I spent two weeks in Taiwan and was able not only to read and send as much email as I wanted but also to use email to upload photos to FB. It's strictly a BB option, and I won't be surprised if it's not supported with BB10.
    02-06-13 12:39 PM
  16. ssbtech's Avatar
    Having an ISP email is asinine. So you expect to be with Shaw for the rest of your life? What if Telus has a better deal next month for internet?
    I don't bother ISP hopping to save $5 a month. I've been with Shaw for 12 years and have no plans to switch to Telus's crappy servi


    Your email should be ISP independent and web based. I use Gmail. Message rules are set up once and everything goes into respective folders.
    I don't think Hotmail and Gmail accounts sound particularly professional. Not only that, but I don't want everything in the cloud, a sentiment expressed by many here.


    Get a new email from Gmail or Outlook. On Shaw, set up auto forwarding to your new email and an autoresponse: "I know longer use this email anymore. My new email is......".
    Again, a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.


    what if you moved and you could not get Shaw in your new location. What if Shaw stopped doing email? What if Shaw was sold or went out of business? You are exposed to unnecessary risks with an ISP email.
    I have no plans to move and I hardly see Shaw going out of business any time soon. I'll deal with the issue if it comes up and I'm forced to.

    Right now, moving from BBOS6 to BB10 is a move that I don't have to make, and the lack of BIS isn't helping to get me excited about the product.


    I just had a client of mine call me asking about his email. He was trying to get his PlayBook to check Telus mail, so the Telus tech had him change everything to IMAP and it all went to ****. Telus tech said "we're having problems and they should be corrected by the end of the month".

    Funny, I've neve had problems dealing with my POP account. A day or two with a BIS outage? I'll take that over the nightmare syncing of IMAP.
    02-06-13 12:50 PM
  17. ssbtech's Avatar
    Who cares about compression when you can get a 6 GB plan for $20/month and with wifi everywhere? If you can't afford a cell phone, you can always use a pay phone.
    Those plans are few and far between. I've got a 6GB/$30 plan and those come around perhaps once per year if you're lucky.


    If you travel around the world, you would know BIS/BES sucks because of the huge roaming fees.
    Perhaps that's just your plan? Plus with the BIS data compression squeezing email and websites down to 1/10 their initial size you're saving lots in roaming there too.
    02-06-13 12:52 PM
  18. jeffawa's Avatar
    I have been a BB user since the 957 on the mobitext network. I had 5 accounts through BIS on my 9900. I bought my Z10 yesterday. I use Google Apps (Free) and set up using the active sync option and it is working fine. I don't mind not having BIS, HOWEVER there are some email features that I would like to be incorporated into BB10.
    1. Gmail (google apps) ability to add labels and archive (yes I read the deleting on the Z10 archives them)
    2. Gmail (google apps) "remote" search my entire inbox on gmail. I used this feature weekly.
    3. Filters - This is feature I am missing the most - I used Filters to stop specific (duplicate) emails from being forwarded to my BB. I use google apps and I have consolidated 4 other email accounts into my main google apps account. Messages that are sent to my other accounts are consolidated on my main account and sent via the main account - I cannot reply and change the "from" email. With Filters I did not send the messages to my bb and I just set up the other accounts in BIS and I received the messages and responded from the correct account.

    RECOMMENDATION: Without BIS a filter system inside BB10 to apply the filters before putting in the message box would be a great NEW feature. Add allow bcc Filtering as well (this was only provided through BES).

    For now I have developed a work around.
    In my main Google Apps account I have set up a filter to bypass the inbox for messages coming in from other addresses (on inbox messages seem to be sent to BB10). I set up the other accounts on my Z10 and can receive and respond from the proper email account. It does make me use the ALL MAIL function in Google Apps to see everything.
    02-06-13 01:06 PM
  19. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Tmobile US offers an unlimited interenational BB email option for $20/month, pro-rated if you go abroad for less than a month. Last year I spent two weeks in Taiwan and was able not only to read and send as much email as I wanted but also to use email to upload photos to FB. It's strictly a BB option, and I won't be surprised if it's not supported with BB10.
    We don't have that kind of deal in Canada!
    02-06-13 01:33 PM
  20. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    I don't think Hotmail and Gmail accounts sound particularly professional. Not only that, but I don't want everything in the cloud, a sentiment expressed by many here.
    A Shaw email does not sound particularly professional either. You should get your own domain email.
    02-06-13 01:36 PM
  21. abhibh's Avatar
    A Shaw email does not sound particularly professional either. You should get your own domain email.
    I have that, rather i have 3 of those POP3 and i want them POP3 leaving a message on server as the same email is needed on my laptop, PC and tablet. And i want BIS so i can actually use my phone to do productive things like talk to people for instance and socialize without getting my battery life eaten by handset email polling.
    ssbtech likes this.
    02-06-13 01:45 PM
  22. ubizmo's Avatar
    We don't have that kind of deal in Canada!
    As far as I know, only Tmobile offers it in the US. I assume it's due to data compression in BIS making it feasible, which is why I don't expect to see it for the Z10...when it finally gets to Tmobile.
    02-06-13 01:46 PM
  23. ssbtech's Avatar
    I have that, rather i have 3 of those POP3 and i want them POP3 leaving a message on server as the same email is needed on my laptop, PC and tablet.
    Now you're just going to get bombarded with commends saying you need to use IMAP or EAS to "sync" all your devices.

    Guess what, I don't want to sync email deletions. I only want it removed from the device I'm deleting it from, not the server. I don't know why some people can't understand that.
    Chriz likes this.
    02-06-13 01:51 PM
  24. abhibh's Avatar
    Now you're just going to get bombarded with commends saying you need to use IMAP or EAS to "sync" all your devices.

    Guess what, I don't want to sync email deletions. I only want it removed from the device I'm deleting it from, not the server. I don't know why some people can't understand that.
    Haha i know. Even if BB10 has IMAP I don't mind it, but they don't have EMAIL RECONCILATION options of Delete from Mailbox & Handheld or Delete from Handheld only.
    I know a lot of guys here have been saying change is needed, you should adapt to it. But change is good only if it bring good things and from my outlook it actually does not. Yes services working without BIS on normal internet plan looks good, but you take away good things then that change is no GOOD.
    Chriz and ssbtech like this.
    02-06-13 02:45 PM
  25. 7thedon7's Avatar
    Will you be here around after receiving your monthly bill to share your experience then ?
    I truly hope it won't be very painful...
    Ouch... I'll be here crossing my fingers hoping that they don't charge him. Honestly, because that's my biggest concern at the moment. And I wonder why no one has clarifed if setting the VPN to blackberry.net does the trick for us BIS users.
    02-06-13 03:00 PM
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