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  1. dd3
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    #326  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnoboy View Post
    I get that people are saying that it's a new OS, but some of these things, which has ALWAYS been part of Blackberry's OS should still be there. I'm on my third device right now, and I was hoping that Z10 would be my 4th. These things NEED to be fixed.

    "You'll want to be able to assign a different alert sound to each mail box so you can tell, with your ears... if you need to pick-up/look at the device. Currently? You get only one alert sound for all emails, regardless of which mailbox they are for. And they all have to be the same volume."

    This was a MAJOR concern for me. I have three different accounts on my 9810, and with the different sounds, I know what each email pertains to. Without different sounds, Iíll be looking at WAY more Spam than I want to .

    "The lock screen currently has just one icon for emails - ALL emails, regardless of mailbox. It has a fairly useless number for unread messages in ALL of the boxes combined e.g. "200 emails" - but maybe 198 are messages in a box you don't care for. Pretty lame because you therefore have to double-swipe into the Hub to see what messages are waiting."

    Again, I have three different accounts. Only ONE of which is REALLY important to me, and when I look at my phone, I want to know if thereís something in THAT account.


    "The device supplied ring tones/alert tones are AWFUL and you cannot set variable volume levels. Okay, you can load whatever sounds you like.. but, for example.. it let's you select .mid files for ringtone even though these aren't compatible (when someone calls, your phone will be silent). How difficult would it have been to put OS5/6/7 ringtones into the ringtones folder? So that users get some consistency out of the box?"

    I get that Blackberry didnít want to copy any of their old code, but this IS kind of a no-brainer. You KEEP the things that work and that people like, and you make them work better.


    "You'd like to set different ringtones (and volumes) depending on who's calling you? Say, so your wife can wake you up in the middle of the night, while you're travelling, but nobody else can? Nope - sorry - that feature is gone."

    This one is really a killer for me. I get so many calls in a day, and I meet with clients constantly during the day. I have one ringtone for people in my address book, one for people who AREN'T in my address book, one for my WIFE and one for my parents. When I meet with clients, I typically turn my ringer off, which I have set to make it so that only my wife gets through. (We just had a baby, so I need to know if somethingís wrong.) If Iím at the store, I want to know if itís a client calling me, and so I get the tone for my address book contacts.

    I REALLY hope these issues are resolved in an update soon. Again, I get that it's new and that Blackberry didn't want to copy old stuff, but you don't throw out what works!
    You can have a different tone for each and every contact and each contact can have a different tone for messages from calls!!! Tones can be any sound or music track on the device. Let's try to be accurate
  2. ubizmo's Avatar
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    #327  

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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyEvul View Post
    When you're trying to complete an entire operating system on a deadline, you have to prioritize. Chances are, things like that were simply moved down the chain of priority for a future update.
    Thank you for that note of sanity. I think the OP has done a service by calling attention to what has disappointed him, and others have done a service by correcting some of his points, or showing how things can be done. I think we can all agree that BB10 currently lacks some features that were not only present in BBOS7 (and earlier), but were considered to be strengths of the BB experience.

    But I don't think we should be too quick to assume that BBRY just blew these things off. It's easy for us to suppose that all these features are "easy" to implement, and to conclude that BBRY's engineers were either lazy or incompetent. The truth is, nothing is easy to implement when you're building a smartphone OS from a core that wasn't originally a smartphone OS (that would be QNX). In particular, every little feature that you implement must be tested ad nauseam to make sure it doesn't break other features. When it's all being recoded on a completely new architecture, you have nothing to fall back on. No matter how modular you try to make things, these unforeseen interactions occur, and throwing more people at the project doesn't necessarily make it go faster. The chances are, if they made it priority to implement all BBOS features that we know and love, the result would be buggy as he!!---or another year or so of development and testing cycles would be needed. At some point, you have to put certain things on hold and get the product out the door.

    In my opinion, the reason for most of these issues is simply that BBRY ran out of time. I'm not making an excuse for them; I'll leave it to people who know more than I do whether this was itself the result of negligence. I'm inclined to doubt it, but that's just me. I suspect BBRY will continue to push its programmers to work extended hours to try to get BB10 up to speed, but they have to be careful. In this market, stability trumps features. As annoyed as the OP and others are at the missing features, if it starts crashing left and right that will hit BBRY below the waterline.

    As I watch all this unfold, I honestly don't know whether I will get a Z10, but I very much doubt that what we're seeing is a result of laziness or incompetence.
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  3. SoUnCool's Avatar
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    #328  

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    here are my reasons

    poor battery life - heavy stuff wont last more than 4 hrs, light stuff email, PIM, facebooking, etc 7 to 8 hrs
    HOT back plate, did anyone notice how hot the back plate gets when using more then 2 hrs on the go?
  4. nataliefc's Avatar
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    #329  

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorstenpleasefixit View Post
    (lots of edits, all honest):



    Background: I had been waiting years for the new BB10/Z10 and while I would have preferred to get the Q10 simply for it's full clicky keyboard, I didn't want to wait another few months. Luckily I'm in the UK so got hold of a Z10 48 hours ago. In the UK we get 7 (sometimes 14) days to try out a handset risk free. Here's why I'm currently intending to send it back:

    (btw - I understand some issues can be palmed off to other companies e.g. Gmail issues - but seriously? BB can test this stuff before they release. Ultimately they should care if the end user has a rough time! And if you claim "ah, but it's a new OS!" then sorry - no dice. It's not new - it's not even new code! This has been in production for more than a year with thousands of RIM employees using dev-handsets to refine the OS and make it good to launch (part of the original delay). How some of these issues could have slipped by RIM personnel during the years they have been making BB10, is absolutely beyond me. Think about what makes your BB experience so great. Why do you love BB vs iP or Droid? For 90% of POWER users it's things like customisable notifications. Customisable LED colours. Individual mailbox icons. Things that enhance productivity and mean you don't have to check the device (as in power up, and swipe) constantly. 'Hearing' whether you need to look at the device itself saves hours each day. Things like delete vs delete from server. It's not as if RIM forgot all these things when they started making BB10!

    1. You'll want to be able to assign a different alert sound to each mail box so you can tell, with your ears... if you need to pick-up/look at the device. Currently? You get only one alert sound for all emails, regardless of which mailbox they are for. And they all have to be the same volume.

    2. You'll want BBM to work in Landscape mode, because this mode is much more comfortable to type in, especially 2-handed. Currently? Portrait only, sorry.

    EDIT: workaround - activate via the Hub, rather than icon

    3. You'll want WhatsApp, Bloomberg Mobile and BeBuzz - top App targets on pretty much any user's list. Really, they should have been part of the 70,000 apps RIM got finished pre-launch of BB10.

    CLARIFY: not the Bloomberg for terminal login, that's available already. Bloomberg did a great App for monitoring portfolios too - that's missing. WhatsApp is the real pain here because of so many non-BB users who expect to be able to 'chat' these days.. yes, even though WhatsApp is HORRIBLY insecure and generally a poor version of BBM. There are 400 different battery monitors in the revamped App World, I would happily have jettisoned 399 of them if I could have had WA from day one.

    EDIT: You can do a port of the Droid version of WA but it won't integrate with contacts list, apparently

    4. when you click the Text Messages icon you'll want it to take you to your text messages, not the Hub.

    CLARIFY: this is a known bug related to open emails in the Hub

    5. you'll want to be allowed to set whatever lock password you want. Sometimes it's less about security and more about requiring SOMETHING to be entered before unlocking the device (stopping a kid, for example). If you want "ABAB" as your password, that is your choice. Currently? Nope - no patterns allowed.

    6. the Z10 runs damn hot. You can fry an egg on it.

    CLARIFY - might be syncing/config related to new device - may settle. May be exacerbated by the metal on the backing plate (the RIM logo)

    7. the lock screen currently has just one icon for emails - ALL emails, regardless of mailbox. It has a fairly useless number for unread messages in ALL of the boxes combined e.g. "200 emails" - but maybe 198 are messages in a box you don't care for. Pretty lame because you therefore have to double-swipe into the Hub to see what messages are waiting.

    8. opening a tenth App closes a previously opened App. It should ask you before closing the other App.

    EDIT: This is a pain if Skype, Voice or Maps is the App it closes. Yes yes do you really need 10 Apps open? Depends how you use your device!

    9. the battery % number has been removed! The current battery icon is too small to tell the difference between 30% and 15%.

    EDIT: there is an App that can do this, I leave it running constantly

    10. the screen rotation is S-L-O-W. Often you can count 1.. 2.. 3.. 4 before the screen switches orientation. Given how often you'll switch between orientations during use, it quickly gets annoying.

    CLARIFY - this was noted on a demo video and perhaps RIM know about it. You will waste a lot of time waiting for the screen to change orientation.

    11. because the auto correct option is ON the space bar, it stops you putting a space into the text you're writing. (if you don't want to accept the auto correct suggestion). You have to swipe up to circumvent this. It's annoying.

    12. the touch (capacitative, I assume?) often requires 2 or 3 presses to register - simply not good enough. It's generally not that accurate. Trying to get the cursor to the right spot to edit something is frustrating.

    EDIT: playing more with the 'cursor positioning circle' feature it's getting easier BUT - when near the edge of the screen it's still very tough AND when trying to cut/copy/paste it seems to have a mind of it's own. Appreciate I have been spoilt with a trackpad for many years...

    13. when the screen finally rotates (see point 10) the position your cursor was in in the previous orientation is lost

    14. you can't use the Calendar in Landscape mode - frustrating as typing 2 handed is much more comfortable in Landscape mode

    15. auto-correct seems to function on the assumption that the first letter is already correct.

    EDIT: often you mis-type the first letter and then the whole word before realising. Currently you need to delete the whole word (actually quite easy - swipe left on the keyboard) and start again = wasted time

    16. it's not easy to put a question/exclamation mark into text. Fine, have a sub menu for general punctuation - but not these extremely common marks.

    EDIT: which is exactly why comma and full-stop (period) are full-time keys

    17. the super-useful "delete from device OR delete from device & server" has been removed entirely!

    18. the status bar (battery, time, signal) has been removed from the screen when you are in an App

    EDIT: you'll miss time the most, probably. Comments that it gives you extra screen space. That's a fair point.. but it should be a user option.

    EDIT2: sort of workaround: Swipe up from the bottom, but not full swipe(as for minimizing the app) - just 3-4mm and you can see battery bar, time, wifi, cellular network, location, hotspot etc. Release, and you're in your app again - thanks borceg!


    19. using the browser in Landscape mode means "open in new tab" is in a fricking sub-menu! It's like the single most used feature in any browser, and unlike Apple iOS you can't just hold a press to activate 'open in new tab'. It makes for a clunky multi-tab browsing experience when browsing in Landscape.

    20. sometimes numbers are included in the on-screen keyboard, sometimes not. And not in the common sense way you might expect.

    EDIT: yes there is a shortcut (swipe down on the keyboard) but no, that's not my point!

    21. twice now my 'enter password to unlock' screen has appeared without the keyboard, meaning I couldn't enter my password.

    CLARIFY - about 2 times out of 200, or 1%

    22. new messages - why the heck couldn't you have some small icons in the status bar at the top of the screen? Why force us to swipe/double-swipe all the way to the Hub to see what messages, in which mailboxes, have come through?

    23. in the Hub, the icons for each message don't show if the message was successfully sent. This is lame. To check if an email/text was sent okay, you have to go into the message (2 levels)

    24. the 'mark as read' option is cranky with Gmail accounts - often taking

    EDIT: hours to feed through and update.

    25. you can't bulk 'mark as read' several message at once

    EDIT: REJOICE! I think you might be able to.. double-checking....

    26. you STILL can't see when a text message you received was actually sent by the other party. This is an absolute disgrace - even 10 year old Nokia phones can show this information.

    27. you STILL can't swap email accounts when forwarding a message

    28. Calendar reminders often don't trigger the red LED. In fact, the LED is generally pretty rubbish, often not flashing, or flashing only for a short while.

    29. deleting an email takes 2 clicks rather than 1

    EDIT - you can turn the delete confirm off

    30. the device supplied ring tones/alert tones are AWFUL and you cannot set variable volume levels. Okay, you can load whatever sounds you like.. but, for example.. it let's you select .mid files for ringtone even though these aren't compatible (when someone calls, your phone will be silent). How difficult would it have been to put OS5/6/7 ringtones into the ringtones folder? So that users get some consistency out of the box?

    31. there's an awkward 3 second pause between clicking Send and a text message actually sending. Why awkward? Because you then have to wait/waste 3 seconds waiting to see if your click was registered, and if the message was sent.

    32. trying to type 2-handed in portrait mode is very uncomfortable.

    33. battery life is as disappointing as you feared - about 12 hours tops, with sensible use

    EDIT - might be related to syncing/config and general playing with everything.. might settle

    34. GMAIL - boring standard message in the Inbox, no labels or anything funky - Universal Search won't find it if it's more than 1 WEEK old. And the power controls from previous BBs (Indexing, Extended Search etc)? Gone.

    35. You'd like to set different ringtones (and volumes) depending on who's calling you? Say, so your wife can wake you up in the middle of the night, while you're travelling, but nobody else can? Nope - sorry - that feature is gone.

    CLARIFY: you sort of can, but not really unless you want to set the ringtone to silent for everyone else

    36. Weird one this. The phone has stopped ringing! Checked and double-checked all Notification settings, even did a reboot but nope, phone will not ring for an incoming call!

    EDIT: a fresh reboot has fixed it thank God - I was using a 206kb mp3 which may or may not be relevant

    37. First field test of TomTom maps (Google maps is gone) wasn't that great. We wanted a chip shop and it found one 8 miles away. Fortunately the lady's 9900 using G Maps found one 500 yards away. I guess this will improve over time, and I'd love to know why G Maps is missing (assume aggressive move from Google?)

    38. it's sometimes tricky to clear Missed Calls. I think you might have to go into the Missed Calls menu? Seems a little extra effort - previously you just clicked the Dial button once to view and presto, missed call indicator cleared. Hardly a huge thing but then as with a lot on this list, it's all about saving a second here, a second there = a big saving over the day or week.

    39. Contentious I know, and certainly not a 'fault', but the charging points are gone so I can't get a desktop stand (ironic given the battery life is now more of an issue)

    40. Weird one this - the text message notifier is sometimes not played! About 1 in every 5 text messages, the vibration and LED work but the sound doesn't play. It's a .m4a file from BB5 (maybe 6) and seems to play fine most of the time.


    http://www.thorstenfixplease.co.uk/

    (returning to a trusty 9780 until I work out what to do..... overall my feeling is that in their rush to "re-launch" they have removed most of what made us all so loyal to BB in the first place!)

    GOOD POINTS:
    You know how AWFUL the previous BBs were for browsing, taking photos, looking at photos, looking at videos.. basically anything media based? That's all fixed, and fixed really really well! The hardware is also pretty special in terms of build. But I would happily sacrifice ALL of that if I could get back power control of profiles, emails, universal search etc. The reviews that say the call quality is bad are off the mark, if you ask me. Maybe it's because I'm in the UK (3G) but they sound great. And the speaker? VERY GOOD. Certainly adequate for a conference call type scenario with the device in the middle of the table! The handset is a good weight, feels substantial but not heavy. The headphone socket on the top makes for easier tune-listening when it's in your pocket. Did I mention how GREAT browsing esp in Landscape is? Ooooo-la-la. It's much easier to move icons around and sort them into folders. It's great being able to see 16 big icons per screen. BBM is sublime, as always. The way pictures/videos are played back is finally updated - on the 9780 it would regularly crash the whole device.

    FIXED
    - BBM in Landscape workaround.. open it via the Hub not the icon - thanks BBThemes
    - delete multiple emails, there is a multi-select, it's just in a sub-menu and not immediately obvious - thanks BBThemes - can't seem to make it work for multiple-select "Mark Message as Read"
    Wow... I'm really glad I read your post before getting one. I was originally planning to get one from Rogers on the release date, now I'm not so sure anymore
  5. SoUnCool's Avatar
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    #330  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ubizmo View Post
    Thank you for that note of sanity. I think the OP has done a service by calling attention to what has disappointed him, and others have done a service by correcting some of his points, or showing how things can be done. I think we can all agree that BB10 currently lacks some features that were not only present in BBOS7 (and earlier), but were considered to be strengths of the BB experience.

    But I don't think we should be too quick to assume that BBRY just blew these things off. It's easy for us to suppose that all these features are "easy" to implement, and to conclude that BBRY's engineers were either lazy or incompetent. The truth is, nothing is easy to implement when you're building a smartphone OS from a core that wasn't originally a smartphone OS (that would be QNX). In particular, every little feature that you implement must be tested ad nauseam to make sure it doesn't break other features. When it's all being recoded on a completely new architecture, you have nothing to fall back on. No matter how modular you try to make things, these unforeseen interactions occur, and throwing more people at the project doesn't necessarily make it go faster. The chances are, if they made it priority to implement all BBOS features that we know and love, the result would be buggy as he!!---or another year or so of development and testing cycles would be needed. At some point, you have to put certain things on hold and get the product out the door.

    In my opinion, the reason for most of these issues is simply that BBRY ran out of time. I'm not making an excuse for them; I'll leave it to people who know more than I do whether this was itself the result of negligence. I'm inclined to doubt it, but that's just me. I suspect BBRY will continue to push its programmers to work extended hours to try to get BB10 up to speed, but they have to be careful. In this market, stability trumps features. As annoyed as the OP and others are at the missing features, if it starts crashing left and right that will hit BBRY below the waterline.

    As I watch all this unfold, I honestly don't know whether I will get a Z10, but I very much doubt that what we're seeing is a result of laziness or incompetence.
    I think it was more of a make or break and hail merry deal for RIM aka BB. With the hype build up of BB10 people were not expecting such things, and now we are getting disappointed
  6. Brickleberry's Avatar
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    With the exception of number 4 I don't think I would ever look for these other "features". Then again I never had a BlackBerry before so nothing lost.

    Q10 should cater more to the BB die hards - 3.5% of the market or so
    Z10 should cater more to the the remaining 96.5% that have moved on and are currently using iPhone or Android devices
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    #332  

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    Quote Originally Posted by dd3 View Post
    You can have a different tone for each and every contact and each contact can have a different tone for messages from calls!!! Tones can be any sound or music track on the device. Let's try to be accurate
    Can you PROVE this please? I have read that you CAN'T do this from at least 10 people who now OWN the device. I'm not calling you a liar, but I have yet to see anyone OTHER than you say this is true. I'd freakin' LOVE for you to show us this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvalidUser0510 View Post
    Great. So I guess your only choice is the legacy BB OS as no modern OS on the market can do this. Good luck
    You understand that what has happened is that there's a functionality that has been REMOVED, right? If they knew how to do this in an older, less sophisticated OS, why wouldn't they have it be in their new OS? I think it's a very valid thing to be concerned about if it's one of the main things that you LIKE about your device. Also, why be snarky about it? I don't get that.
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    #334  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnoboy View Post
    You understand that what has happened is that there's a functionality that has been REMOVED, right? If they knew how to do this in an older, less sophisticated OS, why wouldn't they have it be in their new OS? I think it's a very valid thing to be concerned about if it's one of the main things that you LIKE about your device. Also, why be snarky about it? I don't get that.
    I don't see how it has been removed if it was never to be there in the first place.

    "Not a single line of code from legacy BBOS is in BB10."
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithrazor View Post
    I don't see how it has been removed if it was never to be there in the first place.

    "Not a single line of code from legacy BBOS is in BB10."
    Yes, I know that quote, and YOU know exactly what I meant. It's a functionality that's been in every version of a BB OS since at least 2007, and I was saying that it's now been removed from what the OS offeres. You know full-well that that's what I meant. By your rational, it would be ok if the Z10 didn't have texting, because ... " it was never to be there in the first place. Not a single line of code from legacy BBOS is in BB10."

    Don't be silly.
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  11. ealvnv's Avatar
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    #336  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnoboy View Post
    Can you PROVE this please? I have read that you CAN'T do this from at least 10 people who now OWN the device. I'm not calling you a liar, but I have yet to see anyone OTHER than you say this is true. I'd freakin' LOVE for you to show us this.
    Said it before and will say it again, open the contacts app, open a contact and hit edit, at the very bottom you have an option to set ringtone for calls and messages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnoboy View Post
    Yes, I know that quote, and YOU know exactly what I meant. It's a functionality that's been in every version of a BB OS since at least 2007, and I was saying that it's now been removed from what the OS offeres. You know full-well that that's what I meant. By your rational, it would be ok if the Z10 didn't have texting, because ... " it was never to be there in the first place. Not a single line of code from legacy BBOS is in BB10."

    Don't be silly.
    just out of curiosity i will ask you this? have you ever written code for a mobile device, do you think is easy to adapt the experience to a whole new level, the kernels are completely different between the playbook and BB10 devices let alone BBOS devices, now to say is been removed is a little adventurous, lets just say have not been implemented which is a completely different story.

    People who thinks is really easy to port functions from the Java based BBOSto QNX which is an UNIX os according to wikipedia really has no idea how complicated things can be.

    Seriously people if you think is easy you are fooling yourselves, do any of you have an idea how long has microsoft been working WP8? and yet you can see how many features is lacking.

    Now since most people who complaint seems to think it was just a matter of them being lazy why do not you develop your own application to fix issues like the colored led and ringtones?, let me guess, is not that easy.
    "If you can't find anything wrong with your OS of choice, you might be a fanboy, if you can't find anything RIGHT with the smartphone OSes you DON'T use, you're definitely a fanboy." - Ashley Esqueda

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  12. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #337  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ealvnv View Post
    just out of curiosity i will ask you this? have you ever written code for a mobile device, do you think is easy to adapt the experience to a whole new level, the kernels are completely different between the playbook and BB10 devices let alone BBOS devices, now to say is been removed is a little adventurous, lets just say have not been implemented which is a completely different story.
    Um...no they're not. The PB and BB10 run on the same QNX kernel.
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  13. ealvnv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Um...no they're not. The PB and BB10 run on the same QNX kernel.
    PlayBook Kriptographic kernel 5.6.0.41945

    DevAlpha B kriptographic kernel 5.6.2.44214
    "If you can't find anything wrong with your OS of choice, you might be a fanboy, if you can't find anything RIGHT with the smartphone OSes you DON'T use, you're definitely a fanboy." - Ashley Esqueda

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    #339  

    Default 33 (now 35) reasons why I will be sending my Z10 back :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by ealvnv View Post
    PlayBook Kriptographic kernel 5.6.0.41945

    DevAlpha B kriptographic kernel 5.6.2.44214
    They're both 5.6. That's like saying BB OS 6.0.1.100 runs a completely different kernel from OS 6.0.1.345
    Go get some apps!
    DocuShortcut - Free homescreen shortcuts(Built For BlackBerry)
    Symptom Journal - Track medical symptoms and causes (Built For BlackBerry)
    SkinEd for Minecraft - Create and share Minecraft skins
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    #340  

    Default Re: 33 (now 35) reasons why I will be sending my Z10 back :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by ealvnv View Post
    Said it before and will say it again, open the contacts app, open a contact and hit edit, at the very bottom you have an option to set ringtone for calls and messages.
    While this is true.. I thought others were reporting that despite doing this, the system is still overriding it and only playing one sound?


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  16. ealvnv's Avatar
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    #341  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    They're both 5.6. That's like saying BB OS 6.0.1.100 runs a completely different kernel from OS 6.0.1.345
    OS version is not the same as kernel version, the 5.6 is the base kernel which is QNX base, the rest is what makes the diffence, and for the record BBOS runs on 3.8.xxxx kernel
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  17. ealvnv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    While this is true.. I thought others were reporting that despite doing this, the system is still overriding it and only playing one sound?


    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    no is not, at least not in my Z10 but does it on devalpha
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  18. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #343  

    Default 33 (now 35) reasons why I will be sending my Z10 back :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by ealvnv View Post
    OS version is not the same as kernel version, the 5.6 is the base kernel which is QNX base, the rest is what makes the diffence, and for the record BBOS runs on 3.8.xxxx kernel
    You completely missed the point. You think they drastically changed tr kernel in a point release? Ugh, apologists :S
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  19. mike-berry's Avatar
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    #344  

    Default Re: 33 (now 35) reasons why I will be sending my Z10 back :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    You completely missed the point. You think they drastically changed tr kernel in a point release? Ugh, apologists :S
    you think only a few lines of code change between thousands of builds?

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  20. S180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    You completely missed the point. You think they drastically changed tr kernel in a point release? Ugh, apologists :S
    A 2-digit difference can mean several thousand bug fixes and a few design changes. It can also mean maybe 50 bug fixes. That means it's hard to make out the changes in the two versions unless you are working on the product.
  21. ealvnv's Avatar
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    No i dont think, i am sure they did, the kernel had to be adjusted to the deal with the hardware differences and lte radios and various function on OS, that is the reason why we have not seen BB10 for the PB, if it was the same you would think the DevAlpha releases would work on the PB without any glitches.
    How drastically it changed i can't tell you, the whole point is that people keeps complaining for the "removed" functions without understanding what goes into building the whole OS, certainly the differences between what runs on the PB and what runs on BB10 is big, now compare it to BBOS
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    dam so many edits lol. but OP you gotta remember one thing no phone that gets released comes out perfect. look at the iphone 5 it wasnt perfect when it came out

    Quote Originally Posted by thorstenpleasefixit View Post
    (lots of edits, all honest):



    Background: I had been waiting years for the new BB10/Z10 and while I would have preferred to get the Q10 simply for it's full clicky keyboard, I didn't want to wait another few months. Luckily I'm in the UK so got hold of a Z10 48 hours ago. In the UK we get 7 (sometimes 14) days to try out a handset risk free. Here's why I'm currently intending to send it back:

    (btw - I understand some issues can be palmed off to other companies e.g. Gmail issues - but seriously? BB can test this stuff before they release. Ultimately they should care if the end user has a rough time! And if you claim "ah, but it's a new OS!" then sorry - no dice. It's not new - it's not even new code! This has been in production for more than a year with thousands of RIM employees using dev-handsets to refine the OS and make it good to launch (part of the original delay). How some of these issues could have slipped by RIM personnel during the years they have been making BB10, is absolutely beyond me. Think about what makes your BB experience so great. Why do you love BB vs iP or Droid? For 90% of POWER users it's things like customisable notifications. Customisable LED colours. Individual mailbox icons. Things that enhance productivity and mean you don't have to check the device (as in power up, and swipe) constantly. 'Hearing' whether you need to look at the device itself saves hours each day. Things like delete vs delete from server. It's not as if RIM forgot all these things when they started making BB10!

    1. You'll want to be able to assign a different alert sound to each mail box so you can tell, with your ears... if you need to pick-up/look at the device. Currently? You get only one alert sound for all emails, regardless of which mailbox they are for. And they all have to be the same volume.

    2. You'll want BBM to work in Landscape mode, because this mode is much more comfortable to type in, especially 2-handed. Currently? Portrait only, sorry.

    EDIT: workaround - activate via the Hub, rather than icon

    3. You'll want WhatsApp, Bloomberg Mobile and BeBuzz - top App targets on pretty much any user's list. Really, they should have been part of the 70,000 apps RIM got finished pre-launch of BB10.

    CLARIFY: not the Bloomberg for terminal login, that's available already. Bloomberg did a great App for monitoring portfolios too - that's missing. WhatsApp is the real pain here because of so many non-BB users who expect to be able to 'chat' these days.. yes, even though WhatsApp is HORRIBLY insecure and generally a poor version of BBM. There are 400 different battery monitors in the revamped App World, I would happily have jettisoned 399 of them if I could have had WA from day one.

    EDIT: You can do a port of the Droid version of WA but it won't integrate with contacts list, apparently

    4. when you click the Text Messages icon you'll want it to take you to your text messages, not the Hub.

    CLARIFY: this is a known bug related to open emails in the Hub

    5. you'll want to be allowed to set whatever lock password you want. Sometimes it's less about security and more about requiring SOMETHING to be entered before unlocking the device (stopping a kid, for example). If you want "ABAB" as your password, that is your choice. Currently? Nope - no patterns allowed.

    6. the Z10 runs damn hot. You can fry an egg on it.

    CLARIFY - might be syncing/config related to new device - may settle. May be exacerbated by the metal on the backing plate (the RIM logo)

    7. the lock screen currently has just one icon for emails - ALL emails, regardless of mailbox. It has a fairly useless number for unread messages in ALL of the boxes combined e.g. "200 emails" - but maybe 198 are messages in a box you don't care for. Pretty lame because you therefore have to double-swipe into the Hub to see what messages are waiting.

    8. opening a tenth App closes a previously opened App. It should ask you before closing the other App.

    EDIT: This is a pain if Skype, Voice or Maps is the App it closes. Yes yes do you really need 10 Apps open? Depends how you use your device!

    9. the battery % number has been removed! The current battery icon is too small to tell the difference between 30% and 15%.

    EDIT: there is an App that can do this, I leave it running constantly

    10. the screen rotation is S-L-O-W. Often you can count 1.. 2.. 3.. 4 before the screen switches orientation. Given how often you'll switch between orientations during use, it quickly gets annoying.

    CLARIFY - this was noted on a demo video and perhaps RIM know about it. You will waste a lot of time waiting for the screen to change orientation.

    11. because the auto correct option is ON the space bar, it stops you putting a space into the text you're writing. (if you don't want to accept the auto correct suggestion). You have to swipe up to circumvent this. It's annoying.

    12. the touch (capacitative, I assume?) often requires 2 or 3 presses to register - simply not good enough. It's generally not that accurate. Trying to get the cursor to the right spot to edit something is frustrating.

    EDIT: playing more with the 'cursor positioning circle' feature it's getting easier BUT - when near the edge of the screen it's still very tough AND when trying to cut/copy/paste it seems to have a mind of it's own. Appreciate I have been spoilt with a trackpad for many years...

    13. when the screen finally rotates (see point 10) the position your cursor was in in the previous orientation is lost

    14. you can't use the Calendar in Landscape mode - frustrating as typing 2 handed is much more comfortable in Landscape mode

    15. auto-correct seems to function on the assumption that the first letter is already correct.

    EDIT: often you mis-type the first letter and then the whole word before realising. Currently you need to delete the whole word (actually quite easy - swipe left on the keyboard) and start again = wasted time

    16. it's not easy to put a question/exclamation mark into text. Fine, have a sub menu for general punctuation - but not these extremely common marks.

    EDIT: which is exactly why comma and full-stop (period) are full-time keys

    17. the super-useful "delete from device OR delete from device & server" has been removed entirely!

    18. the status bar (battery, time, signal) has been removed from the screen when you are in an App

    EDIT: you'll miss time the most, probably. Comments that it gives you extra screen space. That's a fair point.. but it should be a user option.

    EDIT2: sort of workaround: Swipe up from the bottom, but not full swipe(as for minimizing the app) - just 3-4mm and you can see battery bar, time, wifi, cellular network, location, hotspot etc. Release, and you're in your app again - thanks borceg!


    19. using the browser in Landscape mode means "open in new tab" is in a fricking sub-menu! It's like the single most used feature in any browser, and unlike Apple iOS you can't just hold a press to activate 'open in new tab'. It makes for a clunky multi-tab browsing experience when browsing in Landscape.

    20. sometimes numbers are included in the on-screen keyboard, sometimes not. And not in the common sense way you might expect.

    EDIT: yes there is a shortcut (swipe down on the keyboard) but no, that's not my point!

    21. twice now my 'enter password to unlock' screen has appeared without the keyboard, meaning I couldn't enter my password.

    CLARIFY - about 2 times out of 200, or 1%

    22. new messages - why the heck couldn't you have some small icons in the status bar at the top of the screen? Why force us to swipe/double-swipe all the way to the Hub to see what messages, in which mailboxes, have come through?

    23. in the Hub, the icons for each message don't show if the message was successfully sent. This is lame. To check if an email/text was sent okay, you have to go into the message (2 levels)

    24. the 'mark as read' option is cranky with Gmail accounts - often taking

    EDIT: hours to feed through and update.

    25. you can't bulk 'mark as read' several message at once

    EDIT: REJOICE! I think you might be able to.. double-checking....

    26. you STILL can't see when a text message you received was actually sent by the other party. This is an absolute disgrace - even 10 year old Nokia phones can show this information.

    27. you STILL can't swap email accounts when forwarding a message

    28. Calendar reminders often don't trigger the red LED. In fact, the LED is generally pretty rubbish, often not flashing, or flashing only for a short while.

    29. deleting an email takes 2 clicks rather than 1

    EDIT - you can turn the delete confirm off

    30. the device supplied ring tones/alert tones are AWFUL and you cannot set variable volume levels. Okay, you can load whatever sounds you like.. but, for example.. it let's you select .mid files for ringtone even though these aren't compatible (when someone calls, your phone will be silent). How difficult would it have been to put OS5/6/7 ringtones into the ringtones folder? So that users get some consistency out of the box?

    31. there's an awkward 3 second pause between clicking Send and a text message actually sending. Why awkward? Because you then have to wait/waste 3 seconds waiting to see if your click was registered, and if the message was sent.

    32. trying to type 2-handed in portrait mode is very uncomfortable.

    33. battery life is as disappointing as you feared - about 12 hours tops, with sensible use

    EDIT - might be related to syncing/config and general playing with everything.. might settle

    34. GMAIL - boring standard message in the Inbox, no labels or anything funky - Universal Search won't find it if it's more than 1 WEEK old. And the power controls from previous BBs (Indexing, Extended Search etc)? Gone.

    35. You'd like to set different ringtones (and volumes) depending on who's calling you? Say, so your wife can wake you up in the middle of the night, while you're travelling, but nobody else can? Nope - sorry - that feature is gone.

    CLARIFY: you sort of can, but not really unless you want to set the ringtone to silent for everyone else

    36. Weird one this. The phone has stopped ringing! Checked and double-checked all Notification settings, even did a reboot but nope, phone will not ring for an incoming call!

    EDIT: a fresh reboot has fixed it thank God - I was using a 206kb mp3 which may or may not be relevant

    37. First field test of TomTom maps (Google maps is gone) wasn't that great. We wanted a chip shop and it found one 8 miles away. Fortunately the lady's 9900 using G Maps found one 500 yards away. I guess this will improve over time, and I'd love to know why G Maps is missing (assume aggressive move from Google?)

    38. it's sometimes tricky to clear Missed Calls. I think you might have to go into the Missed Calls menu? Seems a little extra effort - previously you just clicked the Dial button once to view and presto, missed call indicator cleared. Hardly a huge thing but then as with a lot on this list, it's all about saving a second here, a second there = a big saving over the day or week.

    39. Contentious I know, and certainly not a 'fault', but the charging points are gone so I can't get a desktop stand (ironic given the battery life is now more of an issue)

    40. Weird one this - the text message notifier is sometimes not played! About 1 in every 5 text messages, the vibration and LED work but the sound doesn't play. It's a .m4a file from BB5 (maybe 6) and seems to play fine most of the time.


    http://www.thorstenfixplease.co.uk/

    (returning to a trusty 9780 until I work out what to do..... overall my feeling is that in their rush to "re-launch" they have removed most of what made us all so loyal to BB in the first place!)

    GOOD POINTS:
    You know how AWFUL the previous BBs were for browsing, taking photos, looking at photos, looking at videos.. basically anything media based? That's all fixed, and fixed really really well! The hardware is also pretty special in terms of build. But I would happily sacrifice ALL of that if I could get back power control of profiles, emails, universal search etc. The reviews that say the call quality is bad are off the mark, if you ask me. Maybe it's because I'm in the UK (3G) but they sound great. And the speaker? VERY GOOD. Certainly adequate for a conference call type scenario with the device in the middle of the table! The handset is a good weight, feels substantial but not heavy. The headphone socket on the top makes for easier tune-listening when it's in your pocket. Did I mention how GREAT browsing esp in Landscape is? Ooooo-la-la. It's much easier to move icons around and sort them into folders. It's great being able to see 16 big icons per screen. BBM is sublime, as always. The way pictures/videos are played back is finally updated - on the 9780 it would regularly crash the whole device.

    FIXED
    - BBM in Landscape workaround.. open it via the Hub not the icon - thanks BBThemes
    - delete multiple emails, there is a multi-select, it's just in a sub-menu and not immediately obvious - thanks BBThemes - can't seem to make it work for multiple-select "Mark Message as Read"
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    Here is an easy solution(for anybody), if you don't like the phone or don't want to stick around for any potential updates, then go buy another phone,such a simple solution. 14 pages of he said/she said is getting no place and frankly very redundant.

    I much rather see a dedicated sticky where people with no potential ulterior motives actually go over line items, real or imagined and work out a solution/s , much the same way developers do it on developer blogs. Last time I checked developer blogs I have NEVER seen a developer put up a personal website to air their views, rather they worked together to find issues needing updating, real or imagined. Is that not the true spirit of Crackberry.com or is this just about high jacking the community spirit of Crackberry.com with external linked website/s that in my opinion detract from Crackberry.com spirit.
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    #349  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ealvnv View Post


    just out of curiosity i will ask you this? have you ever written code for a mobile device, do you think is easy to adapt the experience to a whole new level, the kernels are completely different between the playbook and BB10 devices let alone BBOS devices, now to say is been removed is a little adventurous, lets just say have not been implemented which is a completely different story.

    People who thinks is really easy to port functions from the Java based BBOSto QNX which is an UNIX os according to wikipedia really has no idea how complicated things can be.

    Seriously people if you think is easy you are fooling yourselves, do any of you have an idea how long has microsoft been working WP8? and yet you can see how many features is lacking.

    Now since most people who complaint seems to think it was just a matter of them being lazy why do not you develop your own application to fix issues like the colored led and ringtones?, let me guess, is not that easy.
    No. I haven't. Would you like to know why? That's not MY job. Blackberry has had this device and it's OS delayed for, what... TWO years? I thought that the whole point of them employing people who do this stuff is for THEM to get it right. I stick by my guns on this. If there was a standard functionality that many people used in the old OS, I FULLY expect that same functionality in the new OS. It's up to Blackberry to provide the loyal consumers the same type of functionality that we've become used to. If Thor was being interviewed on TV and someone asked why certain features are no longer there, and HE said, "Hey... that's really had to do." how do you think that would go over? Blackberry would TANK. I'm not saying that ANY of this is easy. I'm saying that, after all of the delays, it should be DONE. The product hasn't been out a week yet, and people are already talking about what needs to be in the first update. That's not good, boys and girls. Not good at all.
    BigAl_BB9900 and brianatbb like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnoboy View Post
    No. I haven't. Would you like to know why? That's not MY job. Blackberry has had this device and it's OS delayed for, what... TWO years? I thought that the whole point of them employing people who do this stuff is for THEM to get it right. I stick by my guns on this. If there was a standard functionality that many people used in the old OS, I FULLY expect that same functionality in the new OS. It's up to Blackberry to provide the loyal consumers the same type of functionality that we've become used to. If Thor was being interviewed on TV and someone asked why certain features are no longer there, and HE said, "Hey... that's really had to do." how do you think that would go over? Blackberry would TANK. I'm not saying that ANY of this is easy. I'm saying that, after all of the delays, it should be DONE. The product hasn't been out a week yet, and people are already talking about what needs to be in the first update. That's not good, boys and girls. Not good at all.
    easy there, clearly this device and OS does not fill your needs.....you know what's next
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