[BlackBerry Guy]

It doesn't matter for the people who know they're going to get a BB10 phone or iPhone...those people are going to get their device regardless of which launches first.

It's the people who are on the fence or those coming from feature phones that you would have to consider.

[Mystic205]

agreed, and it matters even less given we should expect everyone with an iPhone 4s to be in a contract with one year left..

So either RIM gives up and goes home to cry, or they simply work to deliver the best device/o.s. combination they can, market it effectively and see what happens.. the answer wont be out until a year after release.

There will ALWAYS be competition..

It doesn't matter for the people who know they're going to get a BB10 phone or iPhone...those people are going to get their device regardless of which launches first.

It's the people who are on the fence or those coming from feature phones that you would have to consider.

[Eumaeus]

My guess is they're going to play a waiting game to see how wp8 and bb10 pan out and then attempt to trump what what people like about them.

I doubt it. Apple does not react like that. They have gotten where they are by competing with themselves, first, foremost, and only. They did not rush to release giant phones, LTE, or stylus-driven phones just because their competitors did. The next iPhone (whether it is called "5", "4si", or, my own prediction, "[the new] iPhone") will come out when Apple is ready for it to come out. We'll know about a month ahead of time, when they announce a big media event. When they announce it, it will be present for people to hold, and it will go on sale a few weeks later.

That is a lesson RIM could take to heart (and it looks like they are taking it to heart): don't react; just act. Don't boast, tease, or promise; just deliver.

[Economist101]

That is a lesson RIM could take to heart (and it looks like they are taking it to heart): don't react; just act. Don't boast, tease, or promise; just deliver.

You nailed it.

[omniusovermind]

I don't think that's a laudable policy. iOS is boring as snot, there's pretrty much nothing at all you can do with the UI outside of stare at the same boring "grid of apps" UI, and the screen size remains the same miniscule 3.5.

Let's be real here, the iPhone's success is pure marketing combined with catering to trend followers who have very little idea about tech. This strategy has allowed them to build a huge app ecosystem, which in turn now serves to provide a solid fall-back for a sub-par and outdated device by 2012 standards.

Get anyone who's actually interested in tech and a device they can really sink their teeth into and the iPhone isn't up to the task. Get someone who's more interested in couponing clubs and their kid's soccer club, and finds some toaster ovens challenging to operate and you have your generic iPhone user. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. Where android took off was with their ability to cater to both, while also having a cool little green robot campaign. Google was the only other player willing to get down and dirty with Apple over touchscreen fun phones.

RIM never even tried until iOS and Android had already saturated the market. Same with MS. RIM's attempt was the Storm and it flopped. MS flopped with WP7. Now we have RIM taking another shot with BB10. MS's second shot involves using their already well established PC user base to get those masses onto their phones. MS has a huge unfair advantage in that respect, so RIM has quite the struggle ahead of them.

Personally I don't think RIM can hope for anything better than 3rd place unless 2 of the other 3 (iPhone, Android, or MS) make some huge mistakes in 2013. It's not because I don't think BB10 can be a great phone, it's because Google and Apple have such a big head start, plus MS just has a bigger user base and cold hard cash.

I personally detest public opinion. The market trends that are driven by the masses give us garbage quality products. Why? Because mob mentality is just that - a huge mass of stupidity. If that wasn't the case, McDonald's wouldn't have grown into the giant that boasts "6 billion morons poisoned. Thanks John Q public for putting this low grade junk at the top of the charts" below the Golden Arches. If popular opinion wasn't seriously F'd up I wouldn't be watching a herd of 300 lb people in old worn sweat pants marching into Walmart every social assistance cheque day

Now you have a pretty good idea how I view people who applaud the success of iPhones, McDonald's and Walmart. You can say all you want about RIM being fail and convincing yourself that they suck due to sales numbers, but hey... I'd rather buy a low selling decent product while you sit there busting out of a sweat suit, cramming a Mcvalue meal in your mouth and hatin' on Tapatalk with your iPhone.

PS: I just had a funny thought. All 3 of those can be found in the same store! Conspiracy? dun-dun dunnnnn!

PPS: I just realized this post beats the crap out of all the RIM bashing posts ever written since the creation of crackberry.com. I am awesome. All shall love me and despair.

[brucep1]

I don't think that's a laudable policy. iOS is boring as snot, there's pretrty much nothing at all you can do with the UI outside of stare at the same boring "grid of apps" UI, and the screen size remains the same miniscule 3.5.

Let's be real here, the iPhone's success is pure marketing combined with catering to trend followers who have very little idea about tech. This strategy has allowed them to build a huge app ecosystem, which in turn now serves to provide a solid fall-back for a sub-par and outdated device by 2012 standards.

Get anyone who's actually interested in tech and a device they can really sink their teeth into and the iPhone isn't up to the task. Get someone who's more interested in couponing clubs and their kid's soccer club, and finds some toaster ovens challenging to operate and you have your generic iPhone user. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. Where android took off was with their ability to cater to both, while also having a cool little green robot campaign. Google was the only other player willing to get down and dirty with Apple over touchscreen fun phones.

RIM never even tried until iOS and Android had already saturated the market. Same with MS. RIM's attempt was the Storm and it flopped. MS flopped with WP7. Now we have RIM taking another shot with BB10. MS's second shot involves using their already well established PC user base to get those masses onto their phones. MS has a huge unfair advantage in that respect, so RIM has quite the struggle ahead of them.

Personally I don't think RIM can hope for anything better than 3rd place unless 2 of the other 3 (iPhone, Android, or MS) make some huge mistakes in 2013. It's not because I don't think BB10 can be a great phone, it's because Google and Apple have such a big head start, plus MS just has a bigger user base and cold hard cash.

I personally detest public opinion. The market trends that are driven by the masses give us garbage quality products. Why? Because mob mentality is just that - a huge mass of stupidity. If that wasn't the case, McDonald's wouldn't have grown into the giant that boasts "6 billion morons poisoned. Thanks John Q public for putting this low grade junk at the top of the charts" below the Golden Arches. If popular opinion wasn't seriously F'd up I wouldn't be watching a herd of 300 lb people in old worn sweat pants marching into Walmart every social assistance cheque day

Now you have a pretty good idea how I view people who applaud the success of iPhones, McDonald's and Walmart. You can say all you want about RIM being fail and convincing yourself that they suck due to sales numbers, but hey... I'd rather buy a low selling decent product while you sit there busting out of a sweat suit, cramming a Mcvalue meal in your mouth and hatin' on Tapatalk with your iPhone.

PS: I just had a funny thought. All 3 of those can be found in the same store! Conspiracy? dun-dun dunnnnn!

PPS: I just realized this post beats the crap out of all the RIM bashing posts ever written since the creation of crackberry.com. I am awesome. All shall love me and despair.

I won't say much about this "opinion", but dismissing the success of those companies because of marketing or the heard mentality is EXTREMELY near sighted.

Let me guess, the solution to fix RIM is to hire a new CMO?

Also, why did RIM's marketing suddenly get crappy in 2008-2011?

[omniusovermind]

I won't say much about this "opinion", but dismissing the success of those companies because of marketing or the heard mentality is EXTREMELY near sighted.

The heck it is. That fast food chain is so nasty they filmed "supersize me" about how rapidly it degraded his health, yet they're the single most popluar food chain in the world. And I'm being near sighted? lol bruce, that's comedy gold.

[avt123]

IMO the first round of BB10 devices will get blown away by iPhone "5" sales. Once the second or third round of BB10 devices come out, then I think RIM will be competing with sales numbers (if BB10 turns out to be successful).

Also, for those who keep saying every iPhone is the same, take a look at BlackBerry. If you think RIMs refreshes are bigger upgrades than what the iPhones have gotten you are out of your mind. The Bold line was basically running the exact same hardware since the 9000. The 9900 was the first one to be different again.

[brucep1]

The heck it is. That fast food chain is so nasty they filmed "supersize me" about how rapidly it degraded his health, yet they're the single most popluar food chain in the world. And I'm being near sighted? lol bruce, that's comedy gold.

Right, that marketing was great for the heard mentality!

Do you know what near sighted means?

[omniusovermind]

Right, that marketing was great for the heard mentality!

Do you know what near sighted means?

Of course I do! I was so near, that I heard you the first time!

[DenverRalphy]

IMO the first round of BB10 devices will get blown away by iPhone "5" sales. Once the second or third round of BB10 devices come out, then I think RIM will be competing with sales numbers (if BB10 turns out to be successful).

Yup. BB10 devices will still suffer the current stigma, even if they are incredible devices. It will be after a few generations have consistently received positive reviews before there's any mass migration and a significant spike in sales. BB10 sales will probably produce improved numbers each quarter as long as they live up to the anticipation, but the big numbers will be a while coming.

[mithrazor]

I don't think that's a laudable policy. iOS is boring as snot, there's pretrty much nothing at all you can do with the UI outside of stare at the same boring "grid of apps" UI, and the screen size remains the same miniscule 3.5.

Let's be real here, the iPhone's success is pure marketing combined with catering to trend followers who have very little idea about tech. This strategy has allowed them to build a huge app ecosystem, which in turn now serves to provide a solid fall-back for a sub-par and outdated device by 2012 standards.

That plus for the people that don't like Android, or don't go the android route. The only other alternative is iPhone really.

And a lot of people went to iPhone after they had an Android, and it left a bad aftertaste. Pre-Gingerbread. My friend had one, hated the battery life and bugs. Those are 2 huge issues. The forced closes and all of that.

So to be fair, there really isn't much of an alternative to Android or iPhone. That's why when Verizon said they believe in a 3rd ecosystem. I have to agree with that. And I'm hoping BB10 can fill that void.

[pantlesspenguin]

IMHO, I think BB10 needs to be released first, have it be a completed product, have it marketed well, and have it include features that people didn't realize they needed. Apple does this well. Take Siri, for example. By no means is Siri the first voice assistant. The MyTouch line tried this with their "genius button" and everyone called it a gimmick. Then Apple releases Siri which is basically the same thing and suddenly everyone wants it. That's kind of how I feel about widgets on Android. I used widgets on my Windows computers and didn't get what the big deal was. Then I started using them on Android and saw how functional they could be (as opposed to purely aesthetical) and now I can't imagine not having them on my phones. I really hope BB10 has some functions and features that they can market, and isn't just a mash of features and functions that are currently available on other devices. It's one thing to have features and functions that are new to BB, and a completely different thing to have features and functions that are new to all mobile devices. I really hope BB10 employs the latter.

[jerry1962]

I don't think the iphone 5 will ruin BB10 build up because I think there is a lot more attention to BB10 because it is something new, even non BB users are watching closely (Less advertising expense).

When BB10 comes out, I think it will be like when the first man landed on the moon.

Opposed to iphone 5 which I see as just an upgrade.

[RoseBud68]

Dam ran out of popcorn....BRB..

[avt123]

I don't think the iphone 5 will ruin BB10 build up because I think there is a lot more attention to BB10 because it is something new, even non BB users are watching closely (Less advertising expense).

When BB10 comes out, I think it will be like when the first man landed on the moon.

Opposed to iphone 5 which I see as just an upgrade.

The iPhone "5" will probably sell 3-4+ million devices in the first weekend. If that wont ruin a build up to BB10, then nothing can.

[Mystic205]

your post demonstrates your total lack of understanding of the market and the success factors driving it.

The quote market unquote does not want what you personally want. nuff said. period. The "market" does not want technical supremacy.. the "market" wants easy to use, safe, predictable (read "boring if you wish") operation. The "market" wants a solid phone that does other stuff simply and easily. ..

Only a fool would truly think that marketing can establish and maintain a dominant market position.. Marketing can improve the initial adoption rate, and increase the initial penetration %, but marketing can not now, or ever has, enabled a bad product to sell sustainably well past the reality check that consumers and users enact.

So rant about mob mentality all you like, but it is you who is out of touch..not them. They simply want to USE their phone, not root/hack/jailbreak or d/l the os leak of the week.

I don't think that's a laudable policy. iOS is boring as snot, there's pretrty much nothing at all you can do with the UI outside of stare at the same boring "grid of apps" UI, and the screen size remains the same miniscule 3.5.

Let's be real here, the iPhone's success is pure marketing combined with catering to trend followers who have very little idea about tech. This strategy has allowed them to build a huge app ecosystem, which in turn now serves to provide a solid fall-back for a sub-par and outdated device by 2012 standards.

Get anyone who's actually interested in tech and a device they can really sink their teeth into and the iPhone isn't up to the task. Get someone who's more interested in couponing clubs and their kid's soccer club, and finds some toaster ovens challenging to operate and you have your generic iPhone user. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. Where android took off was with their ability to cater to both, while also having a cool little green robot campaign. Google was the only other player willing to get down and dirty with Apple over touchscreen fun phones.

RIM never even tried until iOS and Android had already saturated the market. Same with MS. RIM's attempt was the Storm and it flopped. MS flopped with WP7. Now we have RIM taking another shot with BB10. MS's second shot involves using their already well established PC user base to get those masses onto their phones. MS has a huge unfair advantage in that respect, so RIM has quite the struggle ahead of them.

Personally I don't think RIM can hope for anything better than 3rd place unless 2 of the other 3 (iPhone, Android, or MS) make some huge mistakes in 2013. It's not because I don't think BB10 can be a great phone, it's because Google and Apple have such a big head start, plus MS just has a bigger user base and cold hard cash.

I personally detest public opinion. The market trends that are driven by the masses give us garbage quality products. Why? Because mob mentality is just that - a huge mass of stupidity. If that wasn't the case, McDonald's wouldn't have grown into the giant that boasts "6 billion morons poisoned. Thanks John Q public for putting this low grade junk at the top of the charts" below the Golden Arches. If popular opinion wasn't seriously F'd up I wouldn't be watching a herd of 300 lb people in old worn sweat pants marching into Walmart every social assistance cheque day

Now you have a pretty good idea how I view people who applaud the success of iPhones, McDonald's and Walmart. You can say all you want about RIM being fail and convincing yourself that they suck due to sales numbers, but hey... I'd rather buy a low selling decent product while you sit there busting out of a sweat suit, cramming a Mcvalue meal in your mouth and hatin' on Tapatalk with your iPhone.

PS: I just had a funny thought. All 3 of those can be found in the same store! Conspiracy? dun-dun dunnnnn!

PPS: I just realized this post beats the crap out of all the RIM bashing posts ever written since the creation of crackberry.com. I am awesome. All shall love me and despair.

[MartyMcfly]

I don't think that's a laudable policy. iOS is boring as snot, there's pretrty much nothing at all you can do with the UI outside of stare at the same boring "grid of apps" UI, and the screen size remains the same miniscule 3.5.

Let's be real here, the iPhone's success is pure marketing combined with catering to trend followers who have very little idea about tech. This strategy has allowed them to build a huge app ecosystem, which in turn now serves to provide a solid fall-back for a sub-par and outdated device by 2012 standards.

Get anyone who's actually interested in tech and a device they can really sink their teeth into and the iPhone isn't up to the task. Get someone who's more interested in couponing clubs and their kid's soccer club, and finds some toaster ovens challenging to operate and you have your generic iPhone user. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. Where android took off was with their ability to cater to both, while also having a cool little green robot campaign. Google was the only other player willing to get down and dirty with Apple over touchscreen fun phones.

RIM never even tried until iOS and Android had already saturated the market. Same with MS. RIM's attempt was the Storm and it flopped. MS flopped with WP7. Now we have RIM taking another shot with BB10. MS's second shot involves using their already well established PC user base to get those masses onto their phones. MS has a huge unfair advantage in that respect, so RIM has quite the struggle ahead of them.

Personally I don't think RIM can hope for anything better than 3rd place unless 2 of the other 3 (iPhone, Android, or MS) make some huge mistakes in 2013. It's not because I don't think BB10 can be a great phone, it's because Google and Apple have such a big head start, plus MS just has a bigger user base and cold hard cash.

I personally detest public opinion. The market trends that are driven by the masses give us garbage quality products. Why? Because mob mentality is just that - a huge mass of stupidity. If that wasn't the case, McDonald's wouldn't have grown into the giant that boasts "6 billion morons poisoned. Thanks John Q public for putting this low grade junk at the top of the charts" below the Golden Arches. If popular opinion wasn't seriously F'd up I wouldn't be watching a herd of 300 lb people in old worn sweat pants marching into Walmart every social assistance cheque day

Now you have a pretty good idea how I view people who applaud the success of iPhones, McDonald's and Walmart. You can say all you want about RIM being fail and convincing yourself that they suck due to sales numbers, but hey... I'd rather buy a low selling decent product while you sit there busting out of a sweat suit, cramming a Mcvalue meal in your mouth and hatin' on Tapatalk with your iPhone.

PS: I just had a funny thought. All 3 of those can be found in the same store! Conspiracy? dun-dun dunnnnn!

PPS: I just realized this post beats the crap out of all the RIM bashing posts ever written since the creation of crackberry.com. I am awesome. All shall love me and despair.

Hey,no need to bad mouth Mcdonalds. I *heart* their fries.


Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk

[pantlesspenguin]

I don't think the iphone 5 will ruin BB10 build up because I think there is a lot more attention to BB10 because it is something new, even non BB users are watching closely (Less advertising expense).

When BB10 comes out, I think it will be like when the first man landed on the moon.

Opposed to iphone 5 which I see as just an upgrade.

Same thing could be said about WP7, though. That was a lot different than 6 or 6.5, and it released with not a lot of fanfare either. If BB10 does anything less than knock it out of the park I can see the same thing happening with them as the WP7 launch.

[Frosty_Power]

The iphone 5 will be successful regardless of what BB10 turns out to be. Rim can only hope it puts a dent in Apple's sales. A lot of current BB users will buy it, including myself, but in order for other to switch to it, it must be out before the iphone 5 with rave reviews(which I don't think will happen even if it turns out to be the best OS available).

[ADozenEggs@aol.com]

Keyword being "we"..

One more thing..that would mean Apple doesn't have an LTE iphone until 2013, while Android had some in th ebeginning of 2011.

There will be a new phone this
years.

Apple times it's iPhone releases to coincide with expiring contracts. A new phone the upgrade cycle.

Some folks from Wharton's Business school identified it in 2010 and predicted that the 2011 iPhone(4s) would only be an upgrade. They were right.

2007 - iPhone
2008 - iPhone 3G(New Phone)
2009 - iPhone 3Gs(Upgrade)
2010 - iphone 4(New Phone)
2011 - iPhone 4s(Upgrade)
2012 - New iPhone(New design and specs)
2013 - New iPhone X?(Upgrade)

They have this model down to a science. No matter what you're contract cycle, you will always have access to the latest iPhone.

I also believe the will do away with the Numbering as technically this will be the 6th iteration oh the phone.

[bobauckland]

This is quite possibly the stupidest post Ive read, not just on this forum, but on the internet.
This is a classic example of why this forum should never ever be included on all BB10 devices, people will wrongly think all BB fans are morons.

I don't think that's a laudable policy. iOS is boring as snot, there's pretrty much nothing at all you can do with the UI outside of stare at the same boring "grid of apps" UI, and the screen size remains the same miniscule 3.5.

Let's be real here, the iPhone's success is pure marketing combined with catering to trend followers who have very little idea about tech. This strategy has allowed them to build a huge app ecosystem, which in turn now serves to provide a solid fall-back for a sub-par and outdated device by 2012 standards.

Get anyone who's actually interested in tech and a device they can really sink their teeth into and the iPhone isn't up to the task. Get someone who's more interested in couponing clubs and their kid's soccer club, and finds some toaster ovens challenging to operate and you have your generic iPhone user. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. Where android took off was with their ability to cater to both, while also having a cool little green robot campaign. Google was the only other player willing to get down and dirty with Apple over touchscreen fun phones.

RIM never even tried until iOS and Android had already saturated the market. Same with MS. RIM's attempt was the Storm and it flopped. MS flopped with WP7. Now we have RIM taking another shot with BB10. MS's second shot involves using their already well established PC user base to get those masses onto their phones. MS has a huge unfair advantage in that respect, so RIM has quite the struggle ahead of them.

Personally I don't think RIM can hope for anything better than 3rd place unless 2 of the other 3 (iPhone, Android, or MS) make some huge mistakes in 2013. It's not because I don't think BB10 can be a great phone, it's because Google and Apple have such a big head start, plus MS just has a bigger user base and cold hard cash.

I personally detest public opinion. The market trends that are driven by the masses give us garbage quality products. Why? Because mob mentality is just that - a huge mass of stupidity. If that wasn't the case, McDonald's wouldn't have grown into the giant that boasts "6 billion morons poisoned. Thanks John Q public for putting this low grade junk at the top of the charts" below the Golden Arches. If popular opinion wasn't seriously F'd up I wouldn't be watching a herd of 300 lb people in old worn sweat pants marching into Walmart every social assistance cheque day

Now you have a pretty good idea how I view people who applaud the success of iPhones, McDonald's and Walmart. You can say all you want about RIM being fail and convincing yourself that they suck due to sales numbers, but hey... I'd rather buy a low selling decent product while you sit there busting out of a sweat suit, cramming a Mcvalue meal in your mouth and hatin' on Tapatalk with your iPhone.

PS: I just had a funny thought. All 3 of those can be found in the same store! Conspiracy? dun-dun dunnnnn!

PPS: I just realized this post beats the crap out of all the RIM bashing posts ever written since the creation of crackberry.com. I am awesome. All shall love me and despair.

[Blackberry_boffin]

You know I am one of those RIM is guaranteed a sale. Even if the iphone 5 (the 'new iphone' as they will probably call it) comes with Siri II that fetches beers and will do my barbecue etc.
Even the SIII is guaranteed to be a beast but I will take my BB10 thank you.
But the reality is RIM has to think long and hard about going head to head with an iphone launch.

[Chrisy]

BB10 is in the best position. It's the ONLY platform coming out with something new! For example, 2 people in my class last night are going away from iPhone. The prof upgraded to an Android. He's not sure he likes it but wanted a bigger screen. Unfortunately I couldn't recommend a BlackBerry to him...yet. Another student has had iPhones and is bored with the small, incremental changes. Um, sound familiar. He says Siri doesn't work great and that it's not as handy as the hype made it out to be.

IPhone is the new old BBOS and BB10 is the new innovation. Google phones are good but they are all over the place in OS, apps, security. I warned my profile about apps and maybe not doing any banking on his Android.

Very excited.

[DrSoupDragon]

good afternoon

put simply its the OS and how this blends with the hardware.

QNX is far better than anything current, and its potential vast.

RIM is aware of what it has bought [QNX/TAT] - the secret ingredient is physical design,
crack that and its game on.

Joe Public is tiring of Apple and its OS.

RIM reminds me of the transition that NeXT brought to Apple in the 1990's, for NeXT put QNX add design and RIM becomes the next Apple.