[Stocklone]

I'm spent last night arguing on a Droid forum that RIM is not dead. I own Android and I am a huge fan of Android but will be switching to a Z10. The person's final reasoning RIM will die in 2013: I work at a corporate store selling phones and no one has bought a Blackberry in the past 8 months. Everyone is buying Galaxy SIIIs and iPhones.

I wanted to reach through the screen and smack them for completely wasting my time. Yet another person who doesn't know squat about BB10 or the changes RIM has made at the corporate level but somehow they know RIM will fail. The only thing their "insight" says is BB7 is a dead platform. Yeah, duh.

RIM has my favorite tech CEO at the moment (I'm becoming a Thor wh**e more and more everyday), they have a solid OS, solid hardware and a solid SDK for BB10. They have an enthusiastic fanbase that will buy the new phones and show off their phones to family, friends and co-workers to spread the good news. Especially those that haven't taken the plunge yet into the smartphone world. I'm failing to see how this translates into absolute guaranteed fail. I am also assuming RIM will launch on all four US carriers simultaneously to allow every US-based crackberry addict to buy the phone without switching carriers. The Windows Phone launch in the US has been gut wrenching. WP7 launch sucked. WP8 launch is not as bad but it's still is completely underwhelming from my view. I don't want to see that happen to BB10.

I understand it's going to be a difficult process but I hardly think it's impossible. Am I being too optimistic?

[DarioBB92]

You're not being too optimistic. Everything you said is true, RIM will be back with a vengeance with BB10, yeah we all now the current OS is practically garbage compared to whats out now, but we loyals will finally get something worth the excruciating pain of a wait.

We just have to wait for Jan 30th and laugh at all the other "*****" while we enjoy our beautiful phone with it's amazing software..

[Protocol 2001]

The most disheartening, in my view, are those who have recently switched from BB to iOS or Android devices from a BB or just got a hardware upgrade since they won't be able to get the new BB devices for another couple years now (based on the standard 3 year contracts here in Canada).

I don't know a single iOS user who hasn't lost all their data at least once or have had to bring their phone in for repairs/replacement at least once a year (often multiple times a year). Blows my mind why people still bother.

[Taigatrommel]

I for one stopped a while ago arguing with so many "Droid" fanboys out there. Most comments from them regarding any newsbit of BB10 is a usual "DoA."
What is curious though, the same guys are very exited about Ubuntu OS, which rarely is labeled as "DoA", so we have a Blackberry problem right here. I think the US is a very difficult market, probably the most difficult market RIM is manouvering at. From what I see, marketing as well as the hardware spec war is much more critical than it is on other markets. Also it seems too many US citizens are obviously fed up with Blackberry because it reminds them too much of their old, slow work-supplied phones they have/had to carry around. Something the broke free from having iPhones and those Samsungs now. I mean seriously, I often read how many people are surprised the newer BB QWERTYs have touchscreens and browsing is almost on par with the iPhone 4s or those 2011 Androids.

[anon(3310921)]

Your not too far off but your bias is showing. . .LOL. . .to say a platform with 79 million subscribers that just sold 7 Million+ "old" devices last quarter is dead is a ridiculous thing to say. . .to say they will be dead in 2013 is a also unrealistic. . .but at this point I wouldn't argue the point too much. . .let 'em hate. . .lol. . .

[alexan521]

I'm not sure about other things, but one thing I do know is that I will be RIM's fan forever.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk

[SixStringMadness]

Awesome!!

Another "I'm tired of _______" thread.

[MoolahMitch]

I'm spent last night arguing on a Droid forum that RIM is not dead. I own Android and I am a huge fan of Android but will be switching to a Z10. The person's final reasoning RIM will die in 2013: I work at a corporate store selling phones and no one has bought a Blackberry in the past 8 months. Everyone is buying Galaxy SIIIs and iPhones.

I wanted to reach through the screen and smack them for completely wasting my time. Yet another person who doesn't know squat about BB10 or the changes RIM has made at the corporate level but somehow they know RIM will fail. The only thing their "insight" says is BB7 is a dead platform. Yeah, duh.

RIM has my favorite tech CEO at the moment (I'm becoming a Thor wh**e more and more everyday), they have a solid OS, solid hardware and a solid SDK for BB10. They have an enthusiastic fanbase that will buy the new phones and show off their phones to family, friends and co-workers to spread the good news. Especially those that haven't taken the plunge yet into the smartphone world. I'm failing to see how this translates into absolute guaranteed fail. I am also assuming RIM will launch on all four US carriers simultaneously to allow every US-based crackberry addict to buy the phone without switching carriers. The Windows Phone launch in the US has been gut wrenching. WP7 launch sucked. WP8 launch is not as bad but it's still is completely underwhelming from my view. I don't want to see that happen to BB10.

I understand it's going to be a difficult process but I hardly think it's impossible. Am I being too optimistic?

You are not alone and as BlackBerry fans we are more optimistic than outsiders as we are pulling for RIM to succeed but we also generally have a lot more information to base our arguments on that those on other platforms.

RIM has lost a lot of mindshare and they know this hence they came out and said they will be spending so much of that cash reserve on marketing. The success of BlackBerry 10 and the future of RIM now lies in the hands of Frank Boulben!

[Stocklone]

Your not too far off but your bias is showing. . .LOL. . .to say a platform with 79 million subscribers that just sold 7 Million+ "old" devices last quarter is dead is a ridiculous thing to say. . .to say they will be dead in 2013 is a also unrealistic. . .but at this point I wouldn't argue the point too much. . .let 'em hate. . .lol. . .

Would saying BB7 is not the long term future source of growth for RIM be a more accurate statement? I suppose dead is a strong word considering their larger presence in international markets.

[taz323]

I can say this I will move up to BB10,but would not give up my Bold 9930 for any Droid or Ithing out there, this phone owes me nothing and was worth every penny I paid for it.

[SixStringMadness]

I can say this I will move up to BB10,but would not give up my Bold 9930 for any Droid or Ithing out there, this phone owes me nothing and was worth every penny I paid for it.

I agree, the 9930 has been a great device

[RubberChicken76]

. .to say a platform with 79 million subscribers that just sold 7 Million+ "old" devices last quarter is dead is a ridiculous thing to say

Actually they shipped 6.9 but sold through 8.4! :-)

[bobauckland]

I'm spent last night arguing on a Droid forum that RIM is not dead. I own Android and I am a huge fan of Android but will be switching to a Z10. The person's final reasoning RIM will die in 2013: I work at a corporate store selling phones and no one has bought a Blackberry in the past 8 months. Everyone is buying Galaxy SIIIs and iPhones.

I wanted to reach through the screen and smack them for completely wasting my time. Yet another person who doesn't know squat about BB10 or the changes RIM has made at the corporate level but somehow they know RIM will fail. The only thing their "insight" says is BB7 is a dead platform. Yeah, duh.

RIM has my favorite tech CEO at the moment (I'm becoming a Thor wh**e more and more everyday), they have a solid OS, solid hardware and a solid SDK for BB10. They have an enthusiastic fanbase that will buy the new phones and show off their phones to family, friends and co-workers to spread the good news. Especially those that haven't taken the plunge yet into the smartphone world. I'm failing to see how this translates into absolute guaranteed fail. I am also assuming RIM will launch on all four US carriers simultaneously to allow every US-based crackberry addict to buy the phone without switching carriers. The Windows Phone launch in the US has been gut wrenching. WP7 launch sucked. WP8 launch is not as bad but it's still is completely underwhelming from my view. I don't want to see that happen to BB10.

I understand it's going to be a difficult process but I hardly think it's impossible. Am I being too optimistic?

Wonder how they felt talking to you.
Its almost impossible for anyone to talk about how BB10 will be a success based on whats released so far.
BB phones arent selling, people have a sour view of RIM products based on existing products, and all the hype about BB10 is basically hyping some features already around on other platforms, but without the app selection.
Hard to see any real reason to get excited.
Hopefully theyre holding back something truly awesome for the unveil, but at what point do you call the product DOA?
If it releases with no surprises, youve got a phone that will be behind the curve spec wise, one option out of several available for keyboards on Android, and the only plus would be a pretty cool camera trick, albeit with what would be an inferior camera to that on, say, Sonys new flagship Android.
Plus Android is getting new and better keyboards in the near future, like Fleksy, which looks exciting.
Its nice to be all in for RIM, but you cant blame people for not sharing your view, there is nothing on the existing BB OS or revealed so far for BB10 that other OSes dont already have in some way.
We can only hope that Jan 30 will come with some amazing surprises.

[Thunderbuck]

I don't know how much we need to "evangelize" to users on other platforms, anyway. If someone asks me for advice, I give them my point of view, but at the end of the day people really are entitled to make their own choices. If someone just bought an iPhone 5 last week, it does me no good to tell them what a sucky idea that was, because all it does is insult them. They're not going to be able to upgrade for 2-3 years anyway, why would I go out of my way to make them feel bad?

If I run into someone who is THINKING about getting a new phone, that's a bit of a different story. I have what I think are some very good reasons to at least wait and look at BB10 (and my wife is DEFINITELY buying when they come out). Even so, if they have their hearts set on an iPhone or a 'droid, it's not up to me to try to make them feel bad about it. It's all about choice.

[BBThemes]

BB phones arent selling

this`ll come as a shock to ya then. in the last Quarter RIM shipped 6.9m phones, and sold about 8.4m.

in the ENTIRE life cycle of WP7, Nokia sold a global total of apx 7m Lumia phones. yea, you read that right, RIM sold more phones in a poor quarter than nokia lumias could sell in almost 18 months!! (we`re talking pre wp8 devices).

[Stocklone]

Wonder how they felt talking to you.
Its almost impossible for anyone to talk about how BB10 will be a success based on whats released so far.
BB phones arent selling, people have a sour view of RIM products based on existing products, and all the hype about BB10 is basically hyping some features already around on other platforms, but without the app selection.
Hard to see any real reason to get excited.
Hopefully theyre holding back something truly awesome for the unveil, but at what point do you call the product DOA?
If it releases with no surprises, youve got a phone that will be behind the curve spec wise, one option out of several available for keyboards on Android, and the only plus would be a pretty cool camera trick, albeit with what would be an inferior camera to that on, say, Sonys new flagship Android.
Plus Android is getting new and better keyboards in the near future, like Fleksy, which looks exciting.
Its nice to be all in for RIM, but you cant blame people for not sharing your view, there is nothing on the existing BB OS or revealed so far for BB10 that other OSes dont already have in some way.
We can only hope that Jan 30 will come with some amazing surprises.

Sony? Have you seen any pictures from their camera? I haven't. If you have a link, I would love for you to share it. Please tell me you are not just going off of the 13MP number.

Can you show me any other currently available OS that uses gestures as the main way to navigate the OS? Cause everything I see relies on small on-screen buttons or physical buttons. I haven't played with BB10 yet but I have a feeling based on my experience with the Playbook, I will be able to navigate the OS far quicker and with less effort than anything happening on Android.

Can you show me any other OS that makes communication a first class citizen above apps? I think that's pretty unique. For everyone else communication is just a collection of apps. No more important or less important than any other app as far as the OS is concerned.

Haven't tried Fleksy yet. Big fan of Swiftkey though. I can type on my phone without even looking at the screen. Just muscle memory and their excellent auto-correction engine. Looks intriguing though.

I'm well versed in Android. Owned many phones and tablets. I read about Android news every single day of the week. Nothing happening on Android is making me less excited about BB10. It's just making more excited about Android finally having it all come together. It's been a frustrating couple of years. ****, I can actually recommend Android phones that cost less than $199 on contract. That's amazing to me. Cheap Android phones used to be a death sentence. You might as well have signed a contract for someone to punch you in the face for two years. Now you can get a good experience instead of a laggy unresponsive piece of crap that was trash in almost every respect. I personally don't understand why me loving Android has to mean I have to have a pessimistic view of BB10.

[kevinnugent]

I don't know a single iOS user who hasn't lost all their data at least once or have had to bring their phone in for repairs/replacement at least once a year (often multiple times a year). Blows my mind why people still bother.

I never have, and I don't know anyone who has. There, see we're now equal.

[Stocklone]

I don't know how much we need to "evangelize" to users on other platforms, anyway. If someone asks me for advice, I give them my point of view, but at the end of the day people really are entitled to make their own choices. If someone just bought an iPhone 5 last week, it does me no good to tell them what a sucky idea that was, because all it does is insult them. They're not going to be able to upgrade for 2-3 years anyway, why would I go out of my way to make them feel bad?

If I run into someone who is THINKING about getting a new phone, that's a bit of a different story. I have what I think are some very good reasons to at least wait and look at BB10 (and my wife is DEFINITELY buying when they come out). Even so, if they have their hearts set on an iPhone or a 'droid, it's not up to me to try to make them feel bad about it. It's all about choice.

Showing someone the advantages of BB10 is not the same thing as telling them their phone sucks. My immediate family has Android, iOS and WP all based on my suggestions. I try to fit the phone to the person. Not the person to the phone. I'm always demoing new tech to friends, family and co-workers regardless of it they are in the immediate market for one or not. I show them what it has to offer and explain what it does well and why I value that. If it didn't have some advantage, I wouldn't have bought it. The result: I'm one of the first if not the first people they talk to when they finally go to buy a new whatever.

[Stocklone]

I never have, and I don't know anyone who has. There, see we're now equal.

If they have iCloud, I don't see how that's possible for people to lose all their data. My sister's iPhone broke. The speaker died like a month after she got it. Coming from Android, I have the background of rooting and backing stuff up with Titanium Backup Pro and other various apps to the microSD. So I start reading up on how we can backup everything for the replacement iPhone. Pretty quick, I realized we didn't have to do a single thing. The second she signed up for iCloud when she first got it, she was good to go. Doesn't make me want to switch to iOS but I'm happy my sister has access to the service with her phone.

[bobauckland]

Sony? Have you seen any pictures from their camera? I haven't. If you have a link, I would love for you to share it. Please tell me you are not just going off of the 13MP number.

Can you show me any other currently available OS that uses gestures as the main way to navigate the OS? Cause everything I see relies on small on-screen buttons or physical buttons. I haven't played with BB10 yet but I have a feeling based on my experience with the Playbook, I will be able to navigate the OS far quicker and with less effort than anything happening on Android.

Can you show me any other OS that makes communication a first class citizen above apps? I think that's pretty unique. For everyone else communication is just a collection of apps. No more important or less important than any other app as far as the OS is concerned.

Haven't tried Fleksy yet. Big fan of Swiftkey though. I can type on my phone without even looking at the screen. Just muscle memory and their excellent auto-correction engine. Looks intriguing though.

I'm well versed in Android. Owned many phones and tablets. I read about Android news every single day of the week. Nothing happening on Android is making me less excited about BB10. It's just making more excited about Android finally having it all come together. It's been a frustrating couple of years. ****, I can actually recommend Android phones that cost less than $199 on contract. That's amazing to me. Cheap Android phones used to be a death sentence. You might as well have signed a contract for someone to punch you in the face for two years. Now you can get a good experience instead of a laggy unresponsive piece of crap that was trash in almost every respect. I personally don't understand why me loving Android has to mean I have to have a pessimistic view of BB10.

Sony traditionally put great sensors in their camera phones. No reason to doubt this will be any different.
But yeah, heres some sample shots taken at CES.
Sony Xperia Z & ZL first camera samples

Thats way better than anything Ive taken with my Razr I 8MP shooter, look at the detail when you zoom in.
And its absolutely in a different league to the pics taken with my 9900.
Bear in mind, like most of the Motorola new phones, the Z is water resistant, in fact its water proof.
A hardware feature that wouldnt go amiss on BlackBerries.

Neither iOS nor Android use gestures to navigate the OS. My PlayBook does. Sadly theres very little to multitask between because theres nowt to do on a PlayBook. Ill take the very slightly inferior multitasking on an Android device to the graveyard that is the PlayBook any day of the week. Most people would which is why PlayBooks hardly sell.

Fleksy is about to start a beta but its based on blind people typing, so the prediction has to be good, Im not good enough with Swiftkey yet to type without looking so that would be a huge bonus as I do miss the physical keyboard of my 9900.

And I really dont get how anyone can say BBOS or BB10 puts communication as a priority.
Thats just not true, at least with the info out yet.
Communication with other BB users is alright. Not great, alright. Communication with most of the worlds population without a BB is awful, worse than Symbian.
Other OSes have video chat, more robust picture sharing.
BBOS is awful communication wise, you can type to people and thats it. Voice with non BB users or over 3g? Forget about it.
For most consumers the email attachment limitations mean legacy BBOS is an inferior email solution compared to other OSes as you can attach large files or mp3s.
How is that making communication a priority?

Considering the predictive text for BB10 is by Swiftkey, and will likely be on Android shortly as well, given whats been shown off so far, Im finding it hard to get psyched for BB10.
All thats been shown is a keyboard and camera app, and neither is mind blowing, made worse by the fact that the keyboard is already on Android with other options, and the camera app devs have been bought out by Nokia.

I was certain at the time that they were holding something back but as time goes by and nothing gets leaked to keep people interested, Im worried there really isnt much more.

Surely some leaks have to keep dropping to keep people interested, if theres more to leak?

[bobauckland]

this`ll come as a shock to ya then. in the last Quarter RIM shipped 6.9m phones, and sold about 8.4m.

in the ENTIRE life cycle of WP7, Nokia sold a global total of apx 7m Lumia phones. yea, you read that right, RIM sold more phones in a poor quarter than nokia lumias could sell in almost 18 months!! (we`re talking pre wp8 devices).

And how many of those are in developing countries?
BBs in developing countries like where Im from are cheap, seen as a cheaper option than others for the data packages.
As data becomes cheaper and Android low end devices target these users with more features on cheap phones, BB mindshare is eroding.
Add to that the poor build quality of newer devices like the 9900, I went through 2 in about 6 months, friends gone through 3, with bizarre problems like the wifi antenna just suddenly conking out one day, and BB fans are going through multiple devices in short time spans.
BB plans in places like South Africa are very popular as I believe they offer unlimited data, even with tethering.
When BB10 drops, and video chat is possibly in BBM, the data usage for BBs will go up significantly as the features they offer should come closer to what other smartphones have been offering for years.
If BB plans go up in price in developing countries as carriers deal with the increased data consumption, and given the BB10 devices announced so far are high end devices, very different from the curves that are currently selling like hotcakes around the world, that could be a dangerous shift in target markets.

[pillswoj]

this`ll come as a shock to ya then. in the last Quarter RIM shipped 6.9m phones, and sold about 8.4m.

in the ENTIRE life cycle of WP7, Nokia sold a global total of apx 7m Lumia phones. yea, you read that right, RIM sold more phones in a poor quarter than nokia lumias could sell in almost 18 months!! (we`re talking pre wp8 devices).

In Canada, Curves are $0 and Bolds are $50 on three year plans, this combined with unlimited social networking (twitter, facebook, bbm) 0 data plans make them a low cost option for teenagers. This is not a market then BB10 will be competing in for for a while based on device leaks and pricing. This is why looking at sales of OS7 devices and current installed base for BlackBerry tells you little about the future success of BB10.

[calicocat2010]

Showing someone the advantages of BB10 is not the same thing as telling them their phone sucks. My immediate family has Android, iOS and WP all based on my suggestions. I try to fit the phone to the person. Not the person to the phone. I'm always demoing new tech to friends, family and co-workers regardless of it they are in the immediate market for one or not. I show them what it has to offer and explain what it does well and why I value that. If it didn't have some advantage, I wouldn't have bought it. The result: I'm one of the first if not the first people they talk to when they finally go to buy a new whatever.

That's good. Use those communication skills and knowledge to sell BlackBerry 10.

[rasalom1]

I too am switching back as soon as BB10 is released. Android is a great OS, BB is Home for me.

[lorax1284]

I won't try to argue on taste. Clearly bobauckland you like Android.

BB phones arent selling

The "iPod Classic" isn't selling as well as the iPhone, either, so people should look at the iPod Classic and conclude that since it's sales are trending downward, the iPhone won't be a success. Hmm.

people have a sour view of RIM products based on existing products,

No argument there, but that "sour view" of BB10 based on BB7 products and RIM management of 2 years ago is, in a word "unfair". It's like saying that "National Treasure" with Nicholas Cage wasn't a good movie because all his other movies are twaddle.

The OP is frustrated by this attitude... justifying a negative view of RIM / BB10 based on what he and I believe are irrelevancies. You may believe they are relevant, I disagree.

In Canada, Curves are $0 and Bolds are $50 on three year plans

Curves should be free on 1 year plans. Bolds should be $199 on a 1 year plan. Locking people into 3 year plans on BB7 devices isn't doing the customer or RIM any favours. I love my Torch 9810 and moving to BB10 wouldn't be a risk at all if it was a slider and had a trackpad... but I'm still wary about an all touch screen device because my experience with Android and iOS as communications devices has been unsatisfying, and the reason why I call my Torch my "beloved Torch" is down to the trackpad / keyboard / touchscreen combo.

So I'll get a Z10 now and a slider when they inevitably arrive. First world solutions to first world problems.