[joyride]

Awesome post, thank you for that. I agree with almost everything except a couple of the details.

ck at today. You think BlackBerry has failed because haven't advertising....

They've advertised wrong. People who follow celebrities don't care about privacy, security, or office productivity. Small business owners sure do. Heads of state and Executives sure do. BlackBerry needs to advertise to that world.

BlackBerry also needs to draw a line with the app situation. Android by Blackberry for apps, BB10 for everything else. A lot of BB10 users don't care about apps. The ones that do would probably be receptive to a two phone solution with the right hardware. Assuming that's correct, Blackberry can drop support of Android apps in BB10 completely. It's a non issue moving forward. Native apps will be supported but not subsidized. A real ecosystem for BB10 will start to grow organically and the apps will be extremely high quality and purpose built. That's basic economics.

Back to the advertising point, imagine a magazine or newspaper advertisement: "For those that value SECURITY, PRIVACY, and PRODUCTIVITY" and then moves to "We created BB10 just for you."

That's all it needs to be. The target market is going to be smart enough to be able to research BB10 and find a phone that works for them.

Advertising isn't rocket science and Blackberry have done a **** poor job. This isn't something they need a lot of money for, they just need to be smart about it.

[wMarck90]

Yes maybe they can do now the marketing like you said, in the past we has asked but not for this target, but for the consumers and simple they can't do.
But i don't thing is a good idea to remove the support of Android apps, because sometimes is really useful to install an Android application when a native one isn't available.

For the rest, thanks! Hope more people join and we can do something for BB10

[anon(6038817)]

The only way to save BB10 is to make it profitable.

[slagman5]

The only way to save BB10 is to make it profitable.

That's the thing, for a product to be profitable, it isn't about how many they sell, but about how many they PLAN to sell. Remember when BB was profitable, they were actually selling fewer handsets than BB was last year. The difference is that their operations were made to sell at that volume, so they were profitable. If they restructure the BB10 department to be strictly a niche market thing, and only expect to sell in the hundreds of thousands rather than in the millions, and budget that department accordingly, they can be profitable.

Of course the ideal situation would be to sell 10 million devices, but that's just a dream at this point...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[JulesDB]

The day when the first comparison video between the Priv and Passport's speed in doing the same tasks will come out, someone will realize that BlackBerry10 is a horse race.

Android applications run on BB10's runtime nearly at the same speed of almost any other Android device.

#blackberry10elite

[DrBoomBotz]

The day when the first comparison video between the Priv and Passport's speed in doing the same tasks will come out, someone will realize that BlackBerry10 is a horse race.

Android applications run on BB10's runtime nearly at the same speed of almost any other Android device.

#blackberry10elite

Wow that's faint praise. And remember that you are talking about the small subset of android apps that actually run in the BB10 runtime. And that number gets smaller as time goes on.

[Velocitymj]

I think that people really need to see this phone to understand that there is no turning back for BlackBerry.
I spent an hour trying out The Priv the other day.
And while that's not even remotely long enough to make a full judgement call on how great a phone is or isn't, it was long enough to see that this is the new BlackBerry, just as Z10/OS10 combo was the new BlackBerry when it was released.
The Priv shows that OS10 is over in the way that OS7 was over and that BlackBerry is now and will stay Android.
The only way they won't stay Android, is if they get out of the handset business.
I won't own this phone, because with the exception of my BlackBerrys, I run my business on an Apple platform.
I'll move to iOS when that time comes.
But if you're a PC owner and you don't have a problem with Google's practices and, The Priv looks like it's going to be a good phone.
It's not going to be the pure BlackBerry experience that you're used to.
That BlackBerry experience is now reduced to a smaller footprint woven into the Android experience.
After using the Priv, with it's nice looking screen, good camera (finally), a decent pkb (albeit smaller than what we're used to) and seeing all of the apps you could need or want, I think that our OS10 phones appear featureless and clunky.
I can't write about the security issues, but my opinion is that with the diversity of utility / business apps (that now will run reliably on a BB phone) that allow for more productivity, to the gamers and media addicts, this phone is way ahead of OS10.
Where OS10 became less and less of a tool and more and more of a liability for business owners such as myself, The Priv will be a turn around..
While I've read about some glaring issues with the Calendar and Contacts on the Priv, I thought that overall, they are much better than what we have now on OS10. If they fix those bugs quickly, those two important business apps will be great again, just as they were in OS7.
People are complaining about the Hub as well. The Priv's Hub isn't the same as OS10 and not nearly as useful. But if BlackBerry fixes that and a number of other bugs that I'm reading about, you're going to have a great phone. And if they don't, well then it becomes a thing of the past and that's that.
I appreciate the intent of this thread and I like my Q10 and want to be able to use it for a long time. But the reality is I already carry an iPhone as a back up to pick up the slack. And that's a lot of slack.
Eventually (in a few years), I'm going to have to give up the use of a pbk and the intelligence of open frames and stick to the iPhone.
But if I was into Android, I'd buy The Priv

[crucial bbq]

You assume of course that this community want's to save BB10. A quick survey of the site would show you that they don't.

A decent sized user base are new around here, having migrated over fro Android Central or other parts of the Web sometime near when "powered by Android" became official. I guarantee a survey from July 2015 would solidly be in favor of BB10 versus now, and that's largely because of the newcomers.

Posted via CB10

[crucial bbq]

Awesome post, thank you for that. I agree with almost everything except a couple of the details.


They've advertised wrong. People who follow celebrities don't care about privacy, security, or office productivity. Small business owners sure do. Heads of state and Executives sure do. BlackBerry needs to advertise to that world.

BlackBerry also needs to draw a line with the app situation. Android by Blackberry for apps, BB10 for everything else. A lot of BB10 users don't care about apps. The ones that do would probably be receptive to a two phone solution with the right hardware. Assuming that's correct, Blackberry can drop support of Android apps in BB10 completely. It's a non issue moving forward. Native apps will be supported but not subsidized. A real ecosystem for BB10 will start to grow organically and the apps will be extremely high quality and purpose built. That's basic economics.

Back to the advertising point, imagine a magazine or newspaper advertisement: "For those that value SECURITY, PRIVACY, and PRODUCTIVITY" and then moves to "We created BB10 just for you."

That's all it needs to be. The target market is going to be smart enough to be able to research BB10 and find a phone that works for them.

Advertising isn't rocket science and Blackberry have done a **** poor job. This isn't something they need a lot of money for, they just need to be smart about it.

Advertising will only go so far. BlackBerry, like Windows Phone, lost out to Android and iOS because of one thing: a focus on productivity. The average consumer does not care about productivity and to a lesser extent security, privacy, and so on. Yeah, nobody wants their "profile" stolen or compromised but if the NSA snoops around who cares, right? They are looking for bad guys, anyways. At least that is the status quo in the U.S.

Android and iOS proved that consumers care more about entertainment and social media apps. The OP is very much correct, though. There is definitely a market, albeit small, for something like BB10. Why some cannot grasp this reality is beyond me.

It has nothing to do with BB10 being viable in a consumer market as much as it does with them being best positioned to serve a few niche markets and to do so well. If BlackBerry gives that up in favor of Android you bet Black Phone will step in to take its place.


Posted via CB10

[crucial bbq]

...

[jimbob89]

Exactly, it needs to be profitable. I find it hard to believe you can't be profitable selling 800,000 devices in a quarter. If I made phones and sold that, I'd be bloody delighted! Their costbase for devices is just too big, it needs to be managed better/restructured a bit.

Posted via CB10

[ChrisLeNeve]

Crack Berry, the forum where everyone knows better than Chen even if they don't know a thing about the business' financial restrictions, sales numbers or anything else.

Posted via CB10

[wMarck90]

https://twitter.com/MichaelClewley/s...81707526508545

[EchoesFX]

BlackBerry also needs to draw a line with the app situation. Android by Blackberry for apps, BB10 for everything else. A lot of BB10 users don't care about apps. The ones that do would probably be receptive to a two phone solution with the right hardware. Assuming that's correct, Blackberry can drop support of Android apps in BB10 completely. It's a non issue moving forward. Native apps will be supported but not subsidized. A real ecosystem for BB10 will start to grow organically and the apps will be extremely high quality and purpose built. That's basic economics.

This is a horrible idea, and would be the double tap to finish off BB10's zombie corpse. Let's analyze what this would accomplish:

Phones *that were already sold to consumers* would become significantly less useful to those consumers, causing them to dump the platform. Instead of being in "maintenance mode" where what worked in 2016 can reasonably be expected to work for the life of the hardware, this idea takes away things that are critical for the device to meet its owner's needs. BB10 dies, and these users move on to Android, but they choose another manufacturer because BlackBerry just turned their phones into useless paperweights.

If your goal is to kill BB10 in a manner that makes the PlayBook's EOL look like it was handled well with every step taken to avoid generating ill will towards the company, getting BB10 users "hooked" on Android apps and then killing the ability to use them would do it.

Posted via CB10

[ChrisLeNeve]

Exactly. Dropping the android runtime is only the way forward if people are buying and native development is going well. Remember it was supposed to be dumped for the PlayBook, and never was because it wasn't big enough a success. I for one would give up on bb10 if it didn't have Skype for instance.

Posted via CB10

[EchoesFX]

Exactly. Dropping the android runtime is only the way forward if people are buying and native development is going well. Remember it was supposed to be dumped for the PlayBook, and never was because it wasn't big enough a success. I for one would give up on bb10 if it didn't have Skype for instance.

Posted via CB10

Unfortunately even IF native dev was going well and people were buying, giving us Amazon meant that Android Runtime and BB10 can never break up without it killing BB10. If I lost access to over 260 apps that I do use, I'd probably switch.

Unfortunately if I switch, I still lose access to a lot of paid apps on BB10, as well as the app I wrote and published myself. Thankfully I have 4 BB10 devices to use and still plan to get a red Passport, so it will be some time before I have no choice but to move on. The phrase "cold dead hands" applies here.

What can the community do to "save" (prolong the life of) BB10? I know, and I will tell you.

That thing everyone did with the PlayBook? The complaining, the doom and gloom, etc... Yeah, don't do that. If you're capable, go grab yourself a copy of Momentics and make something. Just. Make. Something. And make it fill a need. Grab the last version of Unity that could build for BB10 and use it to make a game if you don't want to do productivity stuff. I said this with the PlayBook, and I'll say it here. It is up to us in the community to keep a stiff upper lip and make the apps that we want to see made. If we as a community aren't willing to do this, then it's over. And everyone should just go buy something with another OS.

Even if you aren't a dev, learn some basic stuff and play around. You might end up like me, find you enjoy doing it again, and change your life and career.

Posted via CB10

[paulschulte]

While I don't disagree with some of the negative comments here, I also don't find the "problems" with BB10 to be as big as either some you are asserting. I've been using my Z10 almost since the day they were released. It's a solid device with a solid OS. Sure there are some rough spots here and there, but nothing that significant. In fact, for its out-of-the-box cohesion, it still looks like a better user experience than Android. (Third-party app availability notwithstanding.)

Posted via CB10

[Apple Aya]

Cool thread. BlackBerry has tried to resist the market but ultimately the market dictates where things go. BB10 is great but if there is no market for it and it is unprofitable, it just doesn't make business sense to save it.

I'll continue using it for as long as I can. I like it and I have all the apps I need.

[Droidophobe]

What can the community do to "save" (prolong the life of) BB10? I know, and I will tell you.

That thing everyone did with the PlayBook? The complaining, the doom and gloom, etc... Yeah, don't do that. If you're capable, go grab yourself a copy of Momentics and make something. Just. Make. Something. And make it fill a need. Grab the last version of Unity that could build for BB10 and use it to make a game if you don't want to do productivity stuff. I said this with the PlayBook, and I'll say it here. It is up to us in the community to keep a stiff upper lip and make the apps that we want to see made. If we as a community aren't willing to do this, then it's over. And everyone should just go buy something with another OS.

Even if you aren't a dev, learn some basic stuff and play around. You might end up like me, find you enjoy doing it again, and change your life and career.

Really? You're telling BB owners that if they want apps for their phones, to get busy and make the apps themselves, even if they aren't a developer? Maybe we could draw names and see who gets the privilege of fixing Link too. And we can sell the fruits of our labors and give the proceeds to the BB tech people so they can take a nice Caribbean vacation.

This forum is the only one I've ever seen where it's routinely argued that it's consumers' responsibility for keeping a company alive.

[EchoesFX]

Really? You're telling BB owners that if they want apps for their phones, to get busy and make the apps themselves, even if they aren't a developer? Maybe we could draw names and see who gets the privilege of fixing Link too. And we can sell the fruits of our labors and give the proceeds to the BB tech people so they can take a nice Caribbean vacation.

This forum is the only one I've ever seen where it's routinely argued that it's consumers' responsibility for keeping a company alive.

Nice fallacy, but your reading comprehension skills have failed you. I was not speaking about keeping BlackBerry alive as a company, but specifically keeping BB10 handsets useful as the company winds down BB10 as a failed attempt at creating a new platform and transitions to a software provider and MAYBE an Android OEM if the sales of the Priv are where John Chen and the shareholders want to see them.

Let's face it, BB10 lost the battle and BlackBerry is being assimilated into the collective of Android OEMs. Most signs point to 10.3.3 and 10.3.4 simply being maintenance updates, and there are no known BB10 devices coming in the future. BB10 is "supported" just like the PlayBook was "supported" with a few minor updates before EOL. Keeping BB10 a useful operating system is eventually going to fall upon independent developers and hobbyists in the community just like keeping any "dead" operating system useful does. Common sense. That's all the time I intend to waste on you.

Posted via CB10

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

I would be pleased to create apps in my free time if I knew how to do it. If you, people, suggest the users should create apps, post a link for learning how to do that.

Posted via CB10

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

I am still waiting for Blaze to post on this thread that he is willing to help us to keeping BlackBerry 10 alive or at least help us find out what is the real future of BlackBerry 10 so we will not be so confused about it. Anyway, still rocking on the Z10 and planning to buy the Passport SE. I know that the existing BlackBerry 10 will cover all my needs for at least 3 years from now better than Android. I don't want Google services and I think that BlackBerry and Android written on same device doesn't make sense.

Posted via CB10

[akavbb]

I am still waiting for Blaze to post on this thread that he is willing to help us to keeping BlackBerry 10 alive or at least help us find out what is the real future of BlackBerry 10 so we will not be so confused about it. Anyway, still rocking on the Z10 and planning to buy the Passport SE. I know that the existing BlackBerry 10 will cover all my needs for at least 3 years from now better than Android. I don't see Google services and I think that BlackBerry and Android written on same device makes sense.

Posted via CB10

Buying the SE will be the best thing to do. After a while Z10 will seem to you like a child toy.

Nothing like my SE.

[Jiggy1971]

Before talk with BlackBerry, me too thinked BlackBerry 10 is dead. But i have thinked wrong.
BlackBerry 10 is in maintenance mode how i already said. No one in BlackBerry want kill him and they know how is powerful than Android.

Migrate to Android is like to migrate from a Ferrari

Attachment 373268

To a Fiat Panda

Attachment 373269

In all this time Google has tried to fix all the issues of Android with some talents from the webOS World. Isn't a coincidence Android is becoming usable with the release 4.x thanks to Matias Duarte. But some of the issues of Android isn't fixable. First is the performance issue. You are going to see this also on the BlackBerry Priv.

So i'm not going to migrate to Android. If there is also a little hope, i'm here to stay and fight with the community to make BlackBerry 10 alive.
Android has stopped the evolution for the mobile world like Windows do in the desktop world. Instead of Android if we have still MeeGo and webOS, imagine how we can benefit and how is more better the mobile market.
So, thanks, but NO. I'm here to stay with BB10.

They need to make a beast mode BlackBerry 10 device. They've needed to for some time. Spec it way out
Try it BB

Sent from Jiggy's Priv. . . .

[Bogdan Tudor Dan]

Buying the SE will be the best thing to do. After a while Z10 will seem to you like a child toy.

Nothing like my SE.

You can be sure I'll do that. I also edited my post because I wrote the opposite of what I want in the last phrase. Lol

Posted via CB10