How do BB10 "background" apps work?

**katesbb** · 02-23-2013, 07:23 PM

How does BB10 handle the idea of "background" apps?

For example, do you still get hub notifications for FaceBook and Twitter if those apps aren't in Active Frames? Does the Hub itself poll for updates independent of those apps?

Can third-party apps update the Hub if not running as an Active Frame?

Is it possible for an app to be running in the background without counting towards the 8 app limit? I'm wondering if it's possible or practical for BeBuzz type apps to be developed for BB10. If BeBuzz was automatically quit when a 9th app was launched, that isn't going to work very well. And if BeBuzz type apps (apps which monitor email, alerts, battery, etc.) need to be Active Frames, I can see the 8 app limit being exceeded quickly.

Are the days of BBOS utility apps (the kind which run behind the scenes to modify how the device actually works) gone?

**ubizmo** · 02-23-2013, 07:32 PM

This is a very good question. If all apps have to be in the active frames queue, utilities would be impossible. But aren't there already a shortcut app and a wallpaper changer, to mention two that would need to stay active?

**joickle** · 02-23-2013, 07:34 PM

Currently, 3rd party apps cannot run in the background, yet..

**belfastdispatcher** · 02-23-2013, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by joickle

Currently, 3rd party apps cannot run in the background, yet..

Yahoo Messenger does, I tested it today

**ubizmo** · 02-23-2013, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by joickle

Currently, 3rd party apps cannot run in the background, yet..

This means that the shortcutme app that was just released has to take up an active frame... And then gets dumped if eight more apps are open? If true, this would be the most serious limitation of the OS I've heard so far.

And what's the basis for saying "yet"? Do we know true background apps are coming?

**ubizmo** · 02-23-2013, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

Yahoo Messenger does, I tested it today

And does it do notifications? There's another thread where it's mentioned that the CB app needs to be in an active frame to do notifications. CB isn't a utility of course but many utilities need to be able to do alerts etc.

**belfastdispatcher** · 02-23-2013, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by ubizmo

And does it do notifications? There's another thread where it's mentioned that the CB app needs to be in an active frame to do notifications. CB isn't a utility of course but many utilities need to be able to do alerts etc.

I got messages after I closed the active frame.

Posted via CB10

**katesbb** · 02-23-2013, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

Yahoo Messenger does, I tested it today

Did you install YM yourself? Or was it included, "built-in" with BB10?

**belfastdispatcher** · 02-23-2013, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by katesbb

Did you install YM yourself? Or was it included, "built-in" with BB10?

It's in BlackBerry World.

Posted via CB10

**joickle** · 02-23-2013, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

Yahoo Messenger does, I tested it today

It's made by RIM, to yahoo

**oddboy** · 02-23-2013, 09:15 PM

Push notifications are different from background apps. A messanger or messaging app doesnt have to be running to get a push notification.

Background apps aren't an option get, but are likely to be added (if the BlackBerry dev forums are aby indicator) . Obviously QNX allows for background apps and QNX has an api demonized programs.

**twstd.reality** · 02-23-2013, 09:21 PM

Apparently, the APIs to do this will be released to devs sometime down the road.

Stolen from another thread:

Originally Posted by M.Rizk

BlackBerry announced in Europe 2013 Jam that they will be working to release the background apps APIs soon. So it's a yes you will be able to get those apps later without active frames and won't count towards the 8 apps limit.

Apps running in background

Posted via CB10

**ubizmo** · 02-23-2013, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by twstd.reality

Apparently, the APIs to do this will be released to devs sometime down the road.

Stolen from another thread:

Apps running in background

Posted via CB10

This is disturbing. "Sometime down the road" could be a long time. Meanwhile, the many utilities that might be created to make the BB10 user experience more satisfying are on hold.

**greatwiseone** · 02-23-2013, 09:41 PM

If you check out the BB10 developer website, headless apps are on the roadmap. The problem is that a lot of apps aren't coded properly such that they use up resources while running in the background (this was a problem on legacy BBOS). BB's trying to figure out the best way for these apps to work. I listened into the session on roadmap items, and it's likely coming in the 'next' version of BB10, with BB10.1 being released when Q10's released (i.e. BB10 with keyboard support). I haven't had much use of these type of apps though. BB10's pretty awesome as is.

**sportline** · 02-23-2013, 10:17 PM

So we're still in this beta and will not see any change until Q10 launch in June? Great. No problem.

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**pictus** · 02-24-2013, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by greatwiseone

If you check out the BB10 developer website, headless apps are on the roadmap. The problem is that a lot of apps aren't coded properly such that they use up resources while running in the background (this was a problem on legacy BBOS). BB's trying to figure out the best way for these apps to work.

You can see why they're trying to work out the best way of doing this, one of the common complaints on Android is that background tasks can sometimes cause battery drain and it's hard to know which one is causing it. On BB10 if it doesn't have an active frame you'd also have no way to close a background process currently.

Looking at the headless app discussions I think allowing an app to be invoked on an event (e.g. incoming Email/SMS) is preferable for some kinds of apps such as BeBuzz as they don't really need to be running in the background all the time. I hope this comes soon as I'd like to get started on an app that would use this functionality but I feel it will be some months off yet since it's still in the planning stage...

**peter9477** · 02-24-2013, 07:17 AM

It won't be in 10.1 on the Q10, but later. After BlackBerry Live in May.

Posted via CB10

**ubizmo** · 02-24-2013, 07:52 AM

So this means that things like podcast and news apps that update periodically must sit in an active frame, right? But can they be protected from being bumped?

**Damian1221** · 02-24-2013, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by ubizmo

So this means that things like podcast and news apps that update periodically must sit in an active frame, right? But can they be protected from being bumped?

Currently to actually download new podcasts/news updates it would have to be open but it could receive push notifications that new updates are available without running.

I really hope the background APIs are added soon and done correctly. IMO the ability to run apps like BeBuzz in the background or QuickLaunch that was run out of a frame was one of the great features of BBOS.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

**ubizmo** · 02-25-2013, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Damian1221

Currently to actually download new podcasts/news updates it would have to be open but it could receive push notifications that new updates are available without running.

Can the push notifications cause the app to open and download?

**peter9477** · 02-25-2013, 08:01 AM

ubizmo, yes, push can invoke an app and it can do whatever work it needs, then issue a notification and shut down again. This is how the podcast/news/messenger types of apps can do their thing already.

There is no single answer to any of this stuff... BB10 has support for numerous techniques, and will have support for many more once the "headless apps" stuff is ready (and note that even it may arrive in stages).

Part of the reason they're rolling things out this way is to give themselves time to study the use cases, and make sure devs aren't just dumping all their apps into background services the way they did on BBOS, where battery life, user privacy, and performance tend to suffer. Short term pain not having certain features, but this is a good thing for the platform, in the long run.

**ubizmo** · 02-25-2013, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by peter9477

ubizmo, yes, push can invoke an app and it can do whatever work it needs, then issue a notification and shut down again. This is how the podcast/news/messenger types of apps can do their thing already.

There is no single answer to any of this stuff... BB10 has support for numerous techniques, and will have support for many more once the "headless apps" stuff is ready (and note that even it may arrive in stages).

Part of the reason they're rolling things out this way is to give themselves time to study the use cases, and make sure devs aren't just dumping all their apps into background services the way they did on BBOS, where battery life, user privacy, and performance tend to suffer. Short term pain not having certain features, but this is a good thing for the platform, in the long run.

Thank you, this is more reassuring. I certainly want them to get it right, since getting it wrong could cause all manner of headaches. It is a real bottleneck, in terms of app development, but I guess I can have some confidence that they will put it together soon.

**world boss** · 02-25-2013, 11:32 AM

I guess the os isn't as complete as we thought it was

**Crowezine** · 02-25-2013, 12:06 PM

It shouldn't affect the hub. The Hub's features (like Facebook and Twitter) are baked in using API. Meaning that you could have 8 business apps running and can still send messages through LinkedIn for example.

If this wasn't possible, it'd make the Hub pointless, because users would end up switching in and out between the apps on their homescreen. As stated in the 'BlackBerry Experience', the idea is that you can switch between apps in one place, without closing anything.

**InvalidUser0510** · 02-25-2013, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by mtblanc

I guess the os isn't as complete as we thought it was

Are you serious? Most OS's don't allow "headless" apps. Actually, out of BB10, iOS, WP8, and Android, only Android allows it. As a former Android (Nexus 4) user, I hope that Blackberry NEVER implements this stupid strategy. You have no idea how many useful apps I had to uninstall on my N4, because they run in the background.

If BB does implement this feature, I would at least hope that it requires a "open on startup" permission that users can disable. On Android, if the app runs on startup, you have no way of disabling it. Even closing it through a task manger doesn't work. The daemon keeps bringing it back.