[BigBadWulf]

What if there were a bbry shareholder revolt. We fire the whole board of directors and Chen,

Good luck fighting Prema with that, let alone gaining the confidence of the rest of the shareholders you can do better.

sell off the new acquisitions,

Which profitable acquisitions would you sell off, and how much would be left after Prema demands his investment capital be returned tout suite?

use the money to hire back the bb10 staff,

Assuming they're lounging in their pajamas, waiting for a call back, and you can convince them your plan is sound.

form a dedicated app team

There was a team. They were talented. Even paying for and doing the development in house wasn't enough to convince some to be on board. Others, ie Facebook have decided to distance themselves from BB10 after years with zero skin in the game. What will bring them in/back?

and retain an up and coming advertising firm to raise brand awareness around the world.

Trust me...awareness is not the issue. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't know of BlackBerry. You need to change brand opinion, and that will take the most amazing marketing campaign ever seen in the modern age.

I don't like the limited choices in smartphone OS, and the direction it's trending. It resembles the PC world. When Apple with it's dedicated following find themselves struggling, what chance does anyone have of breaking in or coming back? From my seat, the only way possible is a system which doesn't require apps to bring the content people want on their phones. The promise of html5 realized, and if you go looking for a company with IoT vision and talent, well...you probably just let them go.

A glimmer of hope should never rely on someone else's failure, but rather your own success.

[Uzi]

.

A glimmer of hope should never rely on someone else's failure, but rather your own success. [/COLOR][/B]

This^

[markmall]

[B][COLOR=#000066]
Trust me...awareness is not the issue. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't know of BlackBerry. You need to change brand opinion, and that will take the most amazing marketing campaign ever seen in the modern age.

You would be hard pressed to find someone who knows what BB10 is or that BB the company has even existed in the last five years.

[BigBadWulf]

You would be hard pressed to find someone who knows what BB10 is or that BB the company has even existed in the last five years.

What would you do to turn that around? There were Super Bowl ads, the most prominent F1 team carried the BlackBerry banner for years. Heck, at&t advertised the Passport. While I believe it's the best OS for my needs, I recognize it lacks what the majority of smartphone users desire. They haven't been hiding, they've been rejected.

[IndianTiwari]

What would you do to turn that around? There were Super Bowl ads, the most prominent F1 team carried the BlackBerry banner for years. Heck, at&t advertised the Passport. While I believe it's the best OS for my needs, I recognize it lacks what the majority of smartphone users desire. They haven't been hiding, they've been rejected.

Very well said . Sad but it is true .

[VanAwful]

What would you do to turn that around? There were Super Bowl ads, the most prominent F1 team carried the BlackBerry banner for years. Heck, at&t advertised the Passport. While I believe it's the best OS for my needs, I recognize it lacks what the majority of smartphone users desire. They haven't been hiding, they've been rejected.

The F1 team ad was worthless; maybe 0.3% of smart phone users were reached. AT&T advertised BB10? Really? A sign placed in the back of their stores staffed by people pushing Apple products was them advertising BlackBerry. If they ran any TV spots, they did not run long nor often.

I get the "BlackBerry?" reaction every time someone finds out I am using a BlackBerry. They say "their still around" and "that's a BlackBerry (referencing to my Z10)?". People hear BlackBerry they think BBOS5 or BBOS7 and hardware from ten years ago.

So again, advertising failed and not having an in house ap team pumping out apps people want were two of the big strikes against BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The F1 team ad was worthless; maybe 0.3% of smart phone users were reached. AT&T advertised BB10? Really? A sign placed in the back of their stores staffed by people pushing Apple products was them advertising BlackBerry. If they ran any TV spots, they did not run long nor often.

I get the "BlackBerry?" reaction every time someone finds out I am using a BlackBerry. They say "their still around" and "that's a BlackBerry (referencing to my Z10)?". People hear BlackBerry they think BBOS5 or BBOS7 and hardware from ten years ago.

So again, advertising failed and not having an in house ap team pumping out apps people want were two of the big strikes against BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

In house app team pumping out what apps? I think Microsoft has clearly shown that either pumping out your own versions of popular apps that have open API's or paying the companies that own the rights and don't issue open API's to build apps for your platform.... doesn't really work if their isn't a substantial userbase in place.

Look at BlackBerry's FaceBook App... many would love to have it back now, but it has been a source of complaints for a long time. Even before BlackBerry pulled most all development from BB10.

Sadly BB10 died way back when it was launched. They had one chance and they fumbled it being conservative on hardware, rushing the much delayed but not ready software, and counting on both developers and existing users... but giving neither a reason to support them.

[mm2061]

I don't think so...someone would destroy BlackBerry...

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

At this point anyone with a little vision is better than nothing.

I think most shareholders would look at it the other way. Having a plan to get back to $10-$15/shr is better than losing it all in a blaze of smartphone glory. Going full bore back into smartphones sounds like it could go $50/shr or $0.

You're talking about billions of dollars of people's money.

[OnTheFence001]

This could be the beginning against Google's monopoly...

In Europe vs. Google, neither side is totally right | VentureBeat | Mobile | by Evan Blass Posted via CB10

I havent seen one worthwhile response in this thread, but, yes, this is potentially a very big deal. think microsoft mid-90's and bundling explorer.

It's strange, BB could allow potentially g-apps if they didnt produce an google android variant, but now that they do, they cant even add in the open source runtime. I agree that ultimately, you must succeed in the market place, but there are also anti-competitive law to ensure an even playing field. something is amiss, imho, with the monetization of the google play store. I am suprised that another band of corporations has not come together to provide some alternative, android app marketplace. sure there are other app marketplaces, but good luck finding an app for your sony camera or samsung tv. sure you can sideload, but we all know it's not the same.

if this allows BB to keep and update the android runtime and potentially allow for the play store, then indeed it does breath new life...of course all else being equal. It also may be too little too late.

[Superdupont 2_0]

Ok. I get ya. So you're thinking the android runtime could access Google play services. That would be so far away if it ever became possible though. Blackberry might not be making phones at all by then.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

I think they still have the "blueprints" for BB10 and QNX.
I see BlackBerry as a player who could always come back, assuming that the only problem of BB10 is the lack of apps.

But let's wait and see what happenes when they asses the situation in mid of 2018.

[anon(3983727)]

I'm sure many Here will agree that the reason android is so popular is mainly due to its app control in the market. They basically have every app you can think of. Also because 90% of phone makers are using android. The day blackberry introduced their first Android shows where the shift is. As a company, if you want to make money, you have to go to Android. Google has successfully cornered the market. Now Apple is starting to lose developers. Not because they don't have the population, it's because of apples control and the only population they have is apple. Google has HTC, Samsung, MOTOROLA, Sony, LG, Asus, and many other uo and coming Brands. Not to mention third party support. More for Android. Perfect example of this is screen mirroring on Apple or lack there of I should say. You need an apple product such as Apple TV in order to mirror your phone screen to TV. Android doesn't have that issue. Why do I need to purchase additional equipment if my TV already has this capability? That's why apple is losing its foot on the ground. They are slowly losing third party support. It gets better. The younger generation of today and for the last 5 years had been using android in schools. Google has a program where schools get special discounts for their products and all the schools are using them. K through 12 are learning android. They're growing up using that ecosystem and sometime in the near future you may only see android on everything. This is why the shift from Microsoft and Apple to have some of their services running on Android is happening today. Europe may find that Google has a monopoly, but without any real competition, there's nothing anyone can do. Google argument holds true. If you can load your app to Google store and are able to use it. What is the problem. They don't have to change their ecosystem to accommodate as long as the apps work on Android.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

I don't agree with that. I believe the popularity is simply due to price and device options. The market is saturated with android devices and people who don't know what to buy will tend to go with whatever is popular. Until you can buy a new (fresh release) iPhone or windows phone for $100-200 android will remain king.

[anon(3983727)]

I think they still have the "blueprints" for BB10 and QNX.
I see BlackBerry as a player who could always come back, assuming that the only problem of BB10 is the lack of apps.

But let's wait and see what happenes when they asses the situation in mid of 2018.

I believe that with Chen in charge there is no hope for a BB10 comeback. A CEO who is completely unbiased over his own company product vs a competitors product. Shame..... Blackberry hardware should at least go down with the ship if they cant get BB10 to profitability. If android is required at this point, create a new brand or sell the app suite but stop using the Blackberry name.

[PantherBlitz]

What if there were a bbry shareholder revolt. We fire the whole board of directors and Chen, sell off the new acquisitions, use the money to hire back the bb10 staff, form a dedicated app team and retain an up and coming advertising firm to raise brand awareness around the world.

The staff is probably employed elsewhere and even those that are free would have serious trust issues regarding BlackBerry.

[anon(3983727)]

What would you do to turn that around? There were Super Bowl ads, the most prominent F1 team carried the BlackBerry banner for years. Heck, at&t advertised the Passport. While I believe it's the best OS for my needs, I recognize it lacks what the majority of smartphone users desire. They haven't been hiding, they've been rejected.

I say release a low-mid level BB10 device in the US. All touch device below $400 with a post carrier subsidy price of $99 or less. Base it on Passport hardware and outsource design and build (not that they have a choice). Whatever needs to be done to rebuild relations with carriers is VERY important. Stop with the artsy BS ads and target the flaws in Android.. showcase as a device for grownups.

[kvndoom]

I say release a low-mid level BB10 device in the US. All touch device below $400 with a post carrier subsidy price of $99 or less. Base it on Passport hardware and outsource design and build (not that they have a choice). Whatever needs to be done to rebuild relations with carriers is VERY important. Stop with the artsy BS ads and target the flaws in Android.. showcase as a device for grownups.

Won't work. "Android sucks! But Blackberry can run all Android apps!" Yeah okay.

Blackberry would have to spend almost every dollar it has left to design, build, distribute and market the phone you want, with zero evidence to show that the market would accept it. Because the market really doesn't want BB10. Contrary to the opinion on this site, the rest of the world has plenty of educated, really smart, savvy, professional, technically inclined people who do know all about BB10, and still think it's a joke and would never buy it even if the phones sold for $100 with a $200 mail in rebate. Non-Crackberry readers aren't all idiots and sheep and lemmings, and otherwise inferior human beings.

We can go back to the 90's when MS smothered Netscape and was found guilty of being anticompetitive. You know how much that hurt Microsoft's market share? Um, none. There was no sudden surge in Linux or Mac usage. Internet Exploder got unbundled in Europe and people just went and downloaded Internet Exploder when they set up their computer. In the end it really just made more inconvenience to the end user.

If everybody gets access to Google Play, so what? The 5% of phone users called "other" get more apps. In the end it'll make things worse because the money Google loses from Android (search and ads, since they give the OS away) will be made up somewhere else, probably in higher cuts out of developer's pockets for app sales and IAP's.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I havent seen one worthwhile response in this thread, but, yes, this is potentially a very big deal. think microsoft mid-90's and bundling explorer.

It's strange, BB could allow potentially g-apps if they didnt produce an google android variant, but now that they do, they cant even add in the open source runtime. I agree that ultimately, you must succeed in the market place, but there are also anti-competitive law to ensure an even playing field. something is amiss, imho, with the monetization of the google play store. I am suprised that another band of corporations has not come together to provide some alternative, android app marketplace. sure there are other app marketplaces, but good luck finding an app for your sony camera or samsung tv. sure you can sideload, but we all know it's not the same.

if this allows BB to keep and update the android runtime and potentially allow for the play store, then indeed it does breath new life...of course all else being equal. It also may be too little too late.

Many here think it is a big deal. They just don't think in the end Google is going to throw open their doors... lots of ways this plays out that would not mean Google giving away G-Service.



But even if today BlackBerry could install G-apps on their 4.3 version of Android... do you think suddenly sales of the Classic, Leap and Passport would surge? Apps was a Big reason for BB10's failure, but too BlackBerry just isn't in a position to compete anymore. Their hardware is always going to be more expensive (special drivers/less volume/ 3rd party builders) or less flashy. Their marketing isn't going to match even HTC's or LG's. Their support among Carriers... think the PRIV got the last support BlackBerry will see. And my biggest thing, performance.... BB10 alone might have been great. But BB10 with and Android Runtime was not.

This might help Samsung backed TIZEN, but SailFish, BB10... they'd probably die with or without apps.

[anon(3983727)]

Won't work. "Android sucks! But Blackberry can run all Android apps!" Yeah okay.

Blackberry would have to spend almost every dollar it has left to design, build, distribute and market the phone you want, with zero evidence to show that the market would accept it. Because the market really doesn't want BB10. Contrary to the opinion on this site, the rest of the world has plenty of educated, really smart, savvy, professional, technically inclined people who do know all about BB10, and still think it's a joke and would never buy it even if the phones sold for $100 with a $200 mail in rebate. Non-Crackberry readers aren't all idiots and sheep and lemmings, and otherwise inferior human beings.

We can go back to the 90's when MS smothered Netscape and was found guilty of being anticompetitive. You know how much that hurt Microsoft's market share? Um, none. There was no sudden surge in Linux or Mac usage. Internet Exploder got unbundled in Europe and people just went and downloaded Internet Exploder when they set up their computer. In the end it really just made more inconvenience to the end user.

If everybody gets access to Google Play, so what? The 5% of phone users called "other" get more apps. In the end it'll make things worse because the money Google loses from Android (search and ads, since they give the OS away) will be made up somewhere else, probably in higher cuts out of developer's pockets for app sales and IAP's.

Again.. i completely disagree.
The majority of mobile device users are not informed or overly intelligent. They would consist of the average person with the average IQ. The majority in fact now were born in the 90s as the younger demographic is the highest consumer right now. These people have no clue about Blackberry's lineage or the fact that they have a competitive product. It would be a hard sell to the younger demographic and its not feasible to go after these sales at this time. There are still millions of people 30 and up who don't care about trendy apps and device price point is the biggest deciding factor. Many of these people will never use much more than stock android with preinstalled apps (carrier supplied). Blackberry could easily hit their required sales numbers serving just these people likely in multitudes even.

[markmall]

No one knows about BB10 or anything that BlackBerry has done since about 2010. This includes business people. This includes intelligent people. This includes people that were drunk and talking to their friends while a single incomprehensible ad ran on TV during a Superbowl about four years ago.

Anyone that says that people know about BB10 should take a walk outside and start asking random people. Choose a business district and the result will be the same.

Posted via CB10

[kvndoom]

Again.. i completely disagree.
The majority of mobile device users are not informed or overly intelligent. They would consist of the average person with the average IQ. The majority in fact now were born in the 90s as the younger demographic is the highest consumer right now. These people have no clue about Blackberry's lineage or the fact that they have a competitive product. It would be a hard sell to the younger demographic and its not feasible to go after these sales at this time. There are still millions of people 30 and up who don't care about trendy apps and device price point is the biggest deciding factor. Many of these people will never use much more than stock android with preinstalled apps (carrier supplied). Blackberry could easily hit their required sales numbers serving just these people likely in multitudes even.

You can disagree with me all you want. You grossly underestimate non-Blackberry customers and grossly overestimate the worth of the Blackberry brand.

And why this thread anyway? What happened to "apps are stupid- we don't need apps"?

[anon(3983727)]

You can disagree with me all you want. You grossly underestimate non-Blackberry customers and grossly overestimate the worth of the Blackberry brand.

And why this thread anyway? What happened to "apps are stupid- we don't need apps"?

I really don't know what other members stance is on apps here but I personally don't care about Google services. Even the most popular apps are really aimed at tweens. If i REALLY need an app it is nice to have the ability to run it in the ART but i seldom have that issue. I prefer the webpage if there is one available and would love to see a more web based experience combined with the app like notifications we have grown to love. Opening up GPS will just prove a point that apps are not what sell devices though. If market share is not changed with forked android and non android OSes gaining traction than you know there is more to it.

[BigBadWulf]

I havent seen one worthwhile response in this thread, but, yes, this is potentially a very big deal. think microsoft mid-90's and bundling explorer.

It's strange, BB could allow potentially g-apps if they didnt produce an google android variant, but now that they do, they cant even add in the open source runtime. I agree that ultimately, you must succeed in the market place, but there are also anti-competitive law to ensure an even playing field. something is amiss, imho, with the monetization of the google play store. I am suprised that another band of corporations has not come together to provide some alternative, android app marketplace. sure there are other app marketplaces, but good luck finding an app for your sony camera or samsung tv. sure you can sideload, but we all know it's not the same.

if this allows BB to keep and update the android runtime and potentially allow for the play store, then indeed it does breath new life...of course all else being equal. It also may be too little too late.

Anti-competitive...even playing field...
Pardon me, but with few exceptions that's nothing but socialist mumbo-jumbo. You invent widget A, and you're saying you can't patent and sell it till someone creates A+?!?

Google created their ecosystem, just as BlackBerry and Apple created theirs. They all started on an even playing field. Well, technically not, since BlackBerry was first. They blew their head start.

The only thing "unfair", is we're losing the OS we love. As disappointed as I am, this doesn't even register as a blip on the radar of my life challenges.

[app_Developer]

There are still millions of people 30 and up who don't care about trendy apps and device price point is the biggest deciding factor.

[Emphasis mine]

But if you're a niche player with higher production costs than the big players, why would you intentionally target a price sensitive segment?

[southlander]

I think they still have the "blueprints" for BB10 and QNX.
I see BlackBerry as a player who could always come back, assuming that the only problem of BB10 is the lack of apps.

But let's wait and see what happenes when they asses the situation in mid of 2018.

Why stage a comeback in a market where profits are moving away from devices and more to recurring services in "the cloud"? BB had the right idea with the SAFs on BBOS. In fact that was flipping brilliant.

So then what service can BlackBerry build into BlackBerry 10, now, that no one else can copy or access, and that a majority of all the worlds top cellular providers would be willing to specially provision on their systems for only BlackBerry customers?

Sounds impossible to me.

Apple has managed to sort of do this with iMessage. There is no doubt that students in colleges and many young people in general are buying iPhones over Android, in order to be able to use iMessage over WiFi and do group messages with their buddies.

BB's issues go beyond apps now. Bad reputation, not top hardware, not top software, high prices relative to value and no apps to boot.

[anon(3983727)]

[Emphasis mine]

But if you're a niche player with higher production costs than the big players, why would you intentionally target a price sensitive segment?

High production costs are one hurdle that needs to be addressed. Outsourcing or even sticking to more obsolete hardware might be the key.
Blackberry needs to build a brand awareness all over again and gain public trust. It should be damage control mode right now more than anything with goals of future success rather than an immediate turn around. Before the "They wouldn't survive long enough" people chime in, they failed with the Priv yet decided to continue with 2 MORE android devices. Why would they not have attempted this with BB10 first? Don't even mention the Leap or Z3 since they were never US/1st world release devices. They only released the Passport and Classic which are extremely niche devices that should have expected low volumes. The android hail-mary strategy sacrificed their ability to regain Blackberry brand popularity and just reinforced their main competitor's brand. The fact that they prominently display bugdroids at their events and overshadow their own logo with the android logo is disturbing. Google is in the exact same competing market and the only thing Blackberry had was their own OS and now they have publicly acknowledged it is inferior to Android by abandoning it.