[murakozi]

I have been looking forward to get Q10 as a replacement for my Bold 9900. Faster hw, new sw - both things I have been enjoying on my Playbook, and was looking forward to use also in my phone.

I am sorry to say, but this was abruptly destroyed by this article, and the realization, that BIS is gone, once I change. No BB10 for me, than.

Why? Roaming. I am traveling a lot within Europe, and roaming charges would kill me, if I didn't have BIS. If I understand corectly, from the day I change to Z10 or Q10, I will be paying the stellar roaming I would be paying with any iOS or Android phone currently.

Just to make an exmaple: I was stranded in Frankfurt for two (highly unplanned) days due to a snowstorm. I was able to do almost everything from my hotel room with BIS (Bold 9900), without paying the insane WiFi charge of the hotel (25 EUR / day, insane!), and without braking the bank (some 10 EUR additional roaming due to receiving calls).

Do I see it right, that this is gone? If yes, than goodbye RIM (sorry, Blackberry), I will go and buy me a Galaxy 4.

[dejongj]

Only until it was sent to my phone. No goldmine of data for hackers to steal.

And that is your choice how you operate it you don't have to leave it there if you don't want to, I don't get the distinction you are trying to make. It is YOUR choice whether you leave it there or not. Just like it is YOUR choice what folder structure you have on your desktop, there is no difference.

[dejongj]

I have been looking forward to get Q10 as a replacement for my Bold 9900. Faster hw, new sw - both things I have been enjoying on my Playbook, and was looking forward to use also in my phone.

I am sorry to say, but this was abruptly destroyed by this article, and the realization, that BIS is gone, once I change. No BB10 for me, than.

Why? Roaming. I am traveling a lot within Europe, and roaming charges would kill me, if I didn't have BIS. If I understand corectly, from the day I change to Z10 or Q10, I will be paying the stellar roaming I would be paying with any iOS or Android phone currently.

Just to make an exmaple: I was stranded in Frankfurt for two (highly unplanned) days due to a snowstorm. I was able to do almost everything from my hotel room with BIS (Bold 9900), without paying the insane WiFi charge of the hotel (25 EUR / day, insane!), and without braking the bank (some 10 EUR additional roaming due to receiving calls).

Do I see it right, that this is gone? If yes, than goodbye RIM (sorry, Blackberry), I will go and buy me a Galaxy 4.

To me a lot of that depends on your provider as well. In the UK I'm on Vodafone, like for like a blackberry plan is �3.33 plus 20% VAT dearer than a non blackberry plan. That is the BIS difference. Now for my international roaming I am on a deal where for �3 inc VAT I can use my call, sms and data allowance within Europe. Financial difference is non-existent.

Now I appreciate that the carriers in your home country might not do the same deals, but that is who you should be directing this to and influence that you want to extend your contract but unless they make it attractive to you, you take your business elsewhere...It is your choice

[Anthony Antakusuma1]

I have been looking forward to get Q10 as a replacement for my Bold 9900. Faster hw, new sw - both things I have been enjoying on my Playbook, and was looking forward to use also in my phone.

I am sorry to say, but this was abruptly destroyed by this article, and the realization, that BIS is gone, once I change. No BB10 for me, than.

Why? Roaming. I am traveling a lot within Europe, and roaming charges would kill me, if I didn't have BIS. If I understand corectly, from the day I change to Z10 or Q10, I will be paying the stellar roaming I would be paying with any iOS or Android phone currently.

Just to make an exmaple: I was stranded in Frankfurt for two (highly unplanned) days due to a snowstorm. I was able to do almost everything from my hotel room with BIS (Bold 9900), without paying the insane WiFi charge of the hotel (25 EUR / day, insane!), and without braking the bank (some 10 EUR additional roaming due to receiving calls).

Do I see it right, that this is gone? If yes, than goodbye RIM (sorry, Blackberry), I will go and buy me a Galaxy 4.

What he said.
My android bills is over a hundred. Vs BlackBerry bis bill of only 10 dollars


Thank you and Welcome

[Omnitech]

Please explain to me why it would be technically impossible for BIS to work on BB10.

I'm done trying to explain how things work to you, it's a fool's errand. Wasted way too many hours already on that.

At this point, I just monitor the FUD you continuously generate, rebut it if necessary for the sake of other people, not for you.

Really, you need a more productive hobby.

[Omnitech]

Why? Roaming. I am traveling a lot within Europe, and roaming charges would kill me, if I didn't have BIS. If I understand corectly, from the day I change to Z10 or Q10, I will be paying the stellar roaming I would be paying with any iOS or Android phone currently. [...]

Do I see it right, that this is gone? If yes, than goodbye RIM (sorry, Blackberry), I will go and buy me a Galaxy 4.

This reasoning never made any sense to me. If the only reason RIM/Blackberry ever had you as a customer was your carrier's BIS roaming plan, that's an awfully tenuous basis from which to pick a highly complex, multi-faceted personal-assistant product. Why would you want a Samsung device anyway? These claims strike me as grandstanding.

Blackberry does not dictate what your carrier chooses to charge you. Data traffic from users over the last few years is SKYROCKETING. Most modern digital cameras today produce image files so large that you can't even attach 2 photos to an email before that email is too large for a BIS-connected device to download. Should mobile carriers keep the same prices forever, despite an explosion in usage? It's strange thinking.

Also, time after time I have seen people here in recent weeks claim to be disappointed in the dropping of BIS in Blackberry 10 over the "roaming charge" issue, only to have someone who lives in the same country they do come along and point out that they weren't knowledgeable of the lower priced billing options available to them.

It all seems a little strange to me.

[bobauckland]

I'm done trying to explain how things work to you, it's a fool's errand. Wasted way too many hours already on that.

At this point, I just monitor the FUD you continuously generate, rebut it if necessary for the sake of other people, not for you.

Really, you need a more productive hobby.

Actually, this post is misleading. As are most of your threads and posts.

Nobody knows why or if it would be technically impossible for BIS to work with BB10.
I bet even BlackBerry never expected that, and I still hope one day they will figure out how to make them play nice together.

There is absolutely no proof available that BIS would be technically impossible to use with BB!0.
Why not just admit that? There's no harm in not knowing all the answers, it's far better to admit that than just make stuff up.

[Omnitech]

My android bills is over a hundred. Vs BlackBerry bis bill of only 10 dollars

I would love to see a comparison of the actual data traffic generated on both devices.

Because I have a funny feeling that, like many other people, you are consuming lots of data on that Android device - ie video, audio, image files - not because it's missing "magical BIS compression" (since most of those things aren't compressible anyway), but because it's actually just easier to consume more data on it.

Since because it is not saddled with BIS overhead, it's far more enjoyable to watch videos, and listen to music, and shoot/share photos without the slowdown imposed by BIS.

[Omnitech]

Actually, this post is misleading. As are most of your threads and posts.

Pretty outrageous claim you got going there. Let's see you back it up.

Nobody knows why or if it would be technically impossible for BIS to work with BB10.

Please demonstrate for us where I or anyone else claimed here that it was "technically impossible".

What I wrote, after pointing out the various issues, was that it would be "impossible to compete effectively".

Thanks for playing.

I bet even BlackBerry never expected that

And I guarantee that you are wrong about that.

and I still hope one day they will figure out how to make them play nice together.

You'll be waiting a very long time then.

There is absolutely no proof available that BIS would be technically impossible to use with BB!0.
Why not just admit that? There's no harm in not knowing all the answers, it's far better to admit that than just make stuff up.

Nothing to admit. You're projecting your own insecurities I'm afraid.

Now stop trolling the thread.

[bobauckland]

Pretty outrageous claim you got going there. Let's see you back it up.

Any poster that feels the need to create a thread labelled FAQ, which is non official and based on their own limited understanding of technical information, without even possessing the phone for whom this is all applicable, is misleading others. More so when they then spend most of their time linking to their own posts and threads, from just about every other thread in the forum.


Please demonstrate for us where I or anyone else claimed here that it was "technically impossible".

The poster asked you a simple question about the technical impossibility and you resorted to personal insults.

What I wrote, after pointing out the various issues, was that it would be "impossible to compete effectively".

This is your opinion. One which, luckily, a lot of people do not share.

Thanks for playing.

???




And I guarantee that you are wrong about that.

Your opinion again. It's clear enough to those with open minds, BIS was supposed to remain as a tiered paid service, no mention of BIS being dropped even on the day of the worldwide launch, as I say, it's clear enough unless you're intentionally wearing blinkers.


You'll be waiting a very long time then.

More opinion



Nothing to admit. You're projecting your own insecurities I'm afraid.

Now stop trolling the thread.

Sigh. Pathetic.

[Omnitech]

The poster asked you a simple question about the technical impossibility and you resorted to personal insults.

This is the only thing I am going to respond to, as none of the other deserves a response.

The individual in question I have literally spent many hours attempting to help him understand email technology that he did not understand and kept asking questions about over and over and over and over and over.

It became clear to me that it was obviously not his intent to learn and evolve his thinking, he simply asked questions until he could find something that he thought he could turn into an excuse to criticize it. That's why I finally concluded that any more time spent answering him was a fool's errand.

Shame you'd rather cast aspersions without considering the context. And the context there is very, very long. Someone else actually wrote a post a while back summarizing a bunch of his own long string of responses that went nowhere.

Once again: stop trolling the thread.

[robsteve]

I think something needs to be clarified. BIS is more than just email and some carriers still require a BlackBerry plan is on the Z10. We have two Z10 and after the initial few days, the data usage is not much more than the OS7 phones we had prior. Is the way the Z10 deals with data perhaps a little more frugal than other smart phones?

[Omnitech]

I think something needs to be clarified. BIS is more than just email and some carriers still require a BlackBerry plan is on the Z10. We have two Z10 and after the initial few days, the data usage is not much more than the OS7 phones we had prior. Is the way the Z10 deals with data perhaps a little more frugal than other smart phones?

Not really, but most people are not very scientific when it comes to gauging their data usage.

Which is why Blackberry 10 could really use one of those data monitoring utilities that shows you all the things that use data, what times of day, etc. Very useful on other platforms, but until BB10 supports background or "headless" apps, not convenient to have something like that taking up an active frame just to sit there monitoring.

[bobauckland]

This is the only thing I am going to respond to, as none of the other deserves a response.

The individual in question I have literally spent many hours attempting to help him understand email technology that he did not understand and kept asking questions about over and over and over and over and over.

It became clear to me that it was obviously not his intent to learn and evolve his thinking, he simply asked questions until he could find something that he thought he could turn into an excuse to criticize it. That's why I finally concluded that any more time spent answering him was a fool's errand.

Shame you'd rather cast aspersions without considering the context. And the context there is very, very long. Someone else actually wrote a post a while back summarizing a bunch of his own long string of responses that went nowhere.

Once again: stop trolling the thread.

The thread is supposedly a FAQ about BIS on BB10 and you have no clue what you're talking about.
Which isn't a personal dig, no one, not even the CrackBerry team can put out a FAQ about BIS in BB10 because nobody knows what's going on. Not CrackBerry, not carriers, and certainly not you.

Only BlackBerry know, and they haven't said anything.

I know the context, you pollute every thread telling people they don't, and didn't need BIS. It's getting old. You then try and explain your understanding of email and sync on BB10, the kicker being that you're not using it and so don't face the problems users like myself are actually facing.

Misleading posts and opinion passed off as fact? I'm sorry, there's only one troll here, and it's the OP. (That's you)

[dejongj]

I think something needs to be clarified. BIS is more than just email and some carriers still require a BlackBerry plan is on the Z10. We have two Z10 and after the initial few days, the data usage is not much more than the OS7 phones we had prior. Is the way the Z10 deals with data perhaps a little more frugal than other smart phones?

I've had smart phones with data plans for at least the last decade and haven't noticed any difference between them to be honest. The only thing that changes is the price plans are getting better and better, i.e. cheaper or to be more accurate you get more for the same amount....

[dejongj]

The thread is supposedly a FAQ about BIS on BB10 and you have no clue what you're talking about.
Which isn't a personal dig, no one, not even the CrackBerry team can put out a FAQ about BIS in BB10 because nobody knows what's going on. Not CrackBerry, not carriers, and certainly not you.

Only BlackBerry know, and they haven't said anything.

I know the context, you pollute every thread telling people they don't, and didn't need BIS. It's getting old. You then try and explain your understanding of email and sync on BB10, the kicker being that you're not using it and so don't face the problems users like myself are actually facing.

Misleading posts and opinion passed off as fact? I'm sorry, there's only one troll here, and it's the OP. (That's you)

That is the best line I've read in a long time, don't agree with it though...But these 'friendly' boards just keep on wanting to accuse people of being trolls...I think I am slowly realising why it it is called crackberry...

On topic...I wonder whether those that really really really want to use BIS and BIS plan (alternative much cheaper plans are available but hey), whether that would work and should be provisioned on the Balance side in BB10?

I still don't see the need but hey **...

[belfastdispatcher]

The thread is supposedly a FAQ about BIS on BB10 and you have no clue what you're talking about.
Which isn't a personal dig, no one, not even the CrackBerry team can put out a FAQ about BIS in BB10 because nobody knows what's going on. Not CrackBerry, not carriers, and certainly not you.

Only BlackBerry know, and they haven't said anything.

I know the context, you pollute every thread telling people they don't, and didn't need BIS. It's getting old. You then try and explain your understanding of email and sync on BB10, the kicker being that you're not using it and so don't face the problems users like myself are actually facing.

Misleading posts and opinion passed off as fact? I'm sorry, there's only one troll here, and it's the OP. (That's you)

For the second time today I find myself forced to agree with you.

[bobauckland]

For the second time today I find myself forced to agree with you.

The more you do it, the easier it gets

[Omnitech]

The more you do it, the easier it gets

Lube helps.

[dejongj]

I still don't see the need but hey **...

LOL There is a profanity filter for h o that is hilarious....

[kbz1960]

As has been said before.

Just a few examples, the push alternatives to BIS aren't yet as reliable, the sync isn't reliable for mail or contacts, the delete on server option being gone, the 30 day limit, the data compression is gone, the roaming charges.

Also, as has been said before

It's actually kinda funny if you look at it sort of impartially.
When the 9900 was the flagship, people here were talking about how you should choose a 9900 over the competition for 'true push email' and 'world class data compression'
Right until the launch of BB10 where BIS was unceremoniously dumped.

Now suddenly it's 'BIS was holding BlackBerry back' and 'Grow up, we don't need it'
The blindness is almost on Apple levels, and if the same thing happened to Apple and Apple users CrackBerry and it's users would be all over them.

Also, when the BIS infrastructure is up, anyone who thinks BB are choosing to do away with it, probably hasn't considered all the possibilities.
They couldn't get BBM on the PlayBook in 2 years.
Something tells me that they couldn't get QNX to play nice with the NOC except in very specific situations and that's the only reason it's been dropped, otherwise it would have at least remained as a paid option.
No one chooses to just drop a system that they're famous for, that's still making them money.

The second part you get with everything and not just bb fans, if you don't have it, it's not needed. When you get its the best thing ever. I've seen it a lot. I will miss the data compression if I find out I'm using much more but from what I do I don't think I will be but will have to wait and see.

Seems I've heard rumors that carriers hate BIS and if true I'm sure that was a factor along with perhaps QNX not playing well if true for both, but doesn't BBM and few other things still rely on the NOC?

[Omnitech]

Just BBM at this point, I'm pretty sure.
No more PIN messages.
Though there was some sort of rumbling about some new future service, thought I heard somewhere.

[kbz1960]

Another question, didn't some in other countries say they are still using their BIS plan with their Z10?

[Omnitech]

Yeah, for some reason there are carriers in the UK, and apparently at least one in Canada that seem to think they need to still sell customers "BIS SIMs".

I think they may just be confused.

[bobauckland]

The second part you get with everything and not just bb fans, if you don't have it, it's not needed. When you get its the best thing ever. I've seen it a lot. I will miss the data compression if I find out I'm using much more but from what I do I don't think I will be but will have to wait and see.

Seems I've heard rumors that carriers hate BIS and if true I'm sure that was a factor along with perhaps QNX not playing well if true for both, but doesn't BBM and few other things still rely on the NOC?

You need an NOC connection for most data related activities, at least at this point, including emails and browsing. At least that's my experience, and the experience of everyone I know with a Z10.

Re carriers, it really depends on who you're talking to. When BIS was dropped people started saying that carriers always hated it. In my opinion this is just pure rumor.
When BIS was mandatory I kept reading about how carriers loved BlackBerry and their data system because it was so data efficient and meant networks could be more efficient and streamlined.

What's telling is there's never been any official statement from any carrier saying that they hated BIS.
That should, I think, tell you all you need to know.