Ding dong BIS is Dead!!!
I don't know about you but I am ecstatic that they killed off that terrible BIS garbage.
Why was it garbage:
-Browsing was terribly slow
-Compression dogged any video streaming
-Weird Service Book problems
-Crappy POP3 email support (now you can refresh your pop3 with a swipe, without waiting for that 15 minutes NOC interval)
-I don't need a plan to use the device. If I want a "iPod touch" all I have to do is use Wifi, and the device works minus phone calls and texting
-My email keeps working when the NOC goes down. No more yearly "OMG RIM SUCKS"
-Programmers don't need to write weird detection logic in code (Do I have BIS, do I have BES, does their carrier allow direct connections). You know those weird setup detection wizards in apps! Now they are gone!!!
-No more weird attachment limits
-They don't try and mess with my HTML email
-No more lame download limits
-Downloads start right away... Not waiting for all that lag for the NOC to wake up
Bottom line, anybody who thinks BIS getting killed off is a bad thing is crazy. Killing of BIS will be one of the most important things to make BB10 perform the way everyone wants! Fast, speedy and without limits!
- 02-10-13, 08:54 PM #3
Don't forget the ability to insert a new sim card and have data right away! No more asking your carrier to push settings and register BIS and what not. Also, you now have the ability to use sim cards from an Android/iOS device and have data as the plans are the same
- 02-10-13, 09:02 PM #5
- 02-10-13, 09:19 PM #7
- CrackBerry Addict
02-10-13, 09:27 PM #8
- 982 Posts
Legacy BIS is dead (as far as QNX-based products including the PlayBook, BlackBerry 10 and Z10 / Q10, are concerned but still fully supported for devices running BlackBerry OS 7.x and below), long live modern BIS (BBM platform, BlackBerry World, BlackBerry ID based services).
Last edited by b320; 02-10-13 at 09:47 PM.
- CrackBerry Master
02-10-13, 09:39 PM #9
- 1,202 Posts
- 02-10-13, 10:23 PM #12
- 02-10-13, 10:58 PM #14
Now I'm just too bored to bother with the rest of your "faults".
Killing off BIS sucks.
-You don't get data compression that can save you valuable money when you go over your data limits or are roaming
-You get **** poor email management without BIS supporting POP3 (device gets cluttered with emails you don't want because you can't set up filters on the BIS account, deleting messages deletes them from the server and makes them impossible for anoyher computer checking the account to retrieve)
-Parents loved the "social" plans because it saved them money and their kids could text all they want - now those are impossible to set up on a BlackBerrry with no BIS.
Everyone says non-BIS plans are cheaper. I wonder, if I upgrade my 9800 to a Z10, will I get my data plan for $5/mo less? Doubt it.
BIS was also a massive revenue generator for BlackBerry. If they didn't have it, they likely wouldn't have gotten through the last few years.
1) BIS slowed down downloading the page... Before it even started to render... Trust us developers when we tell you BIS was a HUGE network latency bottle-neck
2) My BlackBerry was never for business, it was for my own personal use for fun. That's what the Pearl was all about and got me hooked. This kind of thinking is why BlackBerry has been tanking for years. Thank goodness they figured it out!
3) Many people had Service Book problems... TONS OF PEOPLE... Some apps even would not work if you did not have the service books. Verizon even tried to block service books to keep you using texts, although that practice has stopped.
4) Setup a gmail account, and you can setup "send as"... Most ISP's allow for authentication of their SMTP server. My backwater ISP in the middle of nowhere allows for that. I suspect you are talking about a very small percentage of people
5) If BIS could have supported ActiveSync as easily as you described how come they never did it? It's the same thing with why the BlackBerry OS was so laggy, and rebooted every time you installed an App. Old BBOS had limits, and they hit them long ago.
6) Not everyone wants to pay a monthly fee for data... It's nice to know you can do that now. Pop in a SIM... Don't get data... and be on Wifi... It's a nice feature for some.
7) Those outages you speak of were some of the most damaging disasters to the BlackBerry brand. I am glad they will be over now, for the most part.
1) Thank goodness they are no longer compressing data. Honestly data compression algorithms they used did not save that much data... Their OS sucked so bad, and their BIS limitations were so bad that you never could use your data in the first place... That's WHY BlackBerry's used less data.
2) That's total BS. It's way better.
3) Parents should not get kids smartphones... It's like giving a kid a live hand grenade...
4) In the USA we did not have BlackBerry discounts. Sometimes it would cost more to have one.
5) Actually they would have sold more devices. If they would have had QNX and no BIS all these years... Man oh man BlackBerry would have stayed on top.
Bottom line old BBOS and BIS were the primary reason for their demise... They got the message... Sounds like some of their old time users have not...
- CrackBerry Addict
02-10-13, 11:40 PM #16
- 982 Posts
In reply to post by ssbtech:
The bottom line is that it NOT make sense for BlackBerry to continue providing BIS email services for strategic reasons. Please consider the following points:
1. After BlackBerry helped carriers drive smartphone adoption in mid-2000s, carriers came to disfavor BlackBerry because BIS + legacy BlackBerry devices DID NOT drive data revenues as much as data-hungry devices like the iPhone and Android. If this was not a factor, You would not see Sprint signing contracts guaranteeing Apple $15.5 billion in revenue to just be able to sell the iPhone.
2. Carriers control mobile phone distribution and, more importantly, network access, especially in the most lucrative Western markets (read North America + Europe). Carriers prioritize devices that are "hot" and "trendy" (iPhone line, Galaxy lines, etc). Neither the media nor the public consider BIS email services as something that makes a device hot. Show me one review from past three years that states that a BlackBerry is a must have *because* of BIS email services.
3. Carriers absolutely HATE paying BlackBerry for BIS. This revenue has been getting squeezed ever since late 2000s and would go away sooner or later (see BlackBerry's statements to investors from the past few years). If BlackBerry continued offering BIS email, it would be sooner or later be provided at a significant loss.
4. While many people say that they're willing to pay extra for BlackBerry services, when you ask them to their money where they're mouth is, they behave differently. Not having to pay for BES with carriers was a big reason people switched to devices allowing business email access on cheaper non-BES plans just as many institutions switched from BES to Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync when Microsoft started throwing in Exchange ActiveSync licensing for free. In the US, T-Mobile and Virgin Mobile Prepaid both charge extra monthly charge for BIS on top of data plan fee. Guess what? In the past 2 years, BlackBerry devices have completely GONE AWAY as devices marketed for prepaid by either of those carriers in lieu of various low-end (and lower quality) Android devices, even though BlackBerry has been making in-roads all over the world by marketing BlackBerry 7 devices in markets where where low-to-mid-range smartphone growth was key.
5. In most cases, Carriers provide terrible support for it (i.e. blaming BlackBerry, lying about supported features, making access to BIS email account troubleshooting very difficult). This put BlackBerry in unenviable position of poor support when things are going wrong but not being able to help BlackBerry users directly.
BIS email became a losing proposition very quickly as most smartphone users accepted the less sophisticated email services offered on iOS, Android and other platforms and as bigger data revenue, not more efficient data transmission, became the overriding concern for carriers.
If you feel that BIS email is a must have, tell your carrier that you MUST have it and that you want them to offer it. BlackBerry listens to carriers and if carriers hear demand for BIS email, they will demand it from BlackBerry. However, I'm willing to bet that in most cases, your carrier has trained its staff to respond by trying to sell you on switching to an Android device or an iPhone instead as the profits are better there for the carrier.
- 02-13-13, 08:35 AM #17
- 02-13-13, 08:40 AM #18
Apps are what makes BB10's weaknesses even more glaring. When you have the app support iOS has, your weaker points are pretty much a moot point because there are clear advantages to picking that platform.
Faster, than an iPhone 5? That's a bit stretching it. Really Multitask until you open the 10th app and it starts punting others off the list? Swappable battery isn't an issue when your phone doesn't have mid-tier Android device battery life. Keyboard is totally subjective. BB10 doesn't manage messages any better than Android, iOS, or Windows Phone. BBM Video has been on iOS since 2010 - it's called FaceTime, and it's even easier to use. Screen Sharing is niche and the only people looking forward to that are IT support personnel to easily fix device issues (provided the device can run well enough to use the feature at that time). BBM Voice most iOS users will simply use Facebook Messenger or Skype - both of which have free VoIP calling and neither of which can be blocked by a carrier as they aren't built-in features.
However... iOS does have the apps and that means my ridiculously huge OneNote notebooks aren't useless on that platform, for example (don't mention EverNote, as it is useless compared to OneNote). It means apps that I've grown to depend on like Coach's Eye, YouTube, Tapatalk, Snapseed, Google Reader, SkyDrive, Facebook Messenger, OfficeSuite Pro (Connects to SkyDrive) or high quality equivalents (like iWorks instead of OfficeSuite, for example) exist there.
This is not even mentioning the terrible quality of some apps that are there - like the Facebook and Twitter apps.
I'm completely ignoring games, as well, especially since iOS tends to get more high-end exclusives than any other platform.
- 02-13-13, 08:51 AM #19First thing we all need on on a work phone is streaming video.
What if you want to watch training videos that are work related, like for a new Office or Windows version being rolled out?
Your views are short-sighted and your whining is becoming unbearable.
Off you go.
- 02-13-13, 08:57 AM #20
I'm not talking about switching between apps - but Multitask?
and thank God for all the choices we have - not having to stick with one brand or one device - instead we use what we have to use to get the job done.
- 02-13-13, 09:13 AM #22
- 02-13-13, 09:44 AM #23
I would have responded but there is no need. The previous two did a good job. My point stands.... appart from apps, what does iOS do what BB10 doesn't. I won't argue that apps are important for a lot of people and many rely on some specific ones, but, well, many don't, myself included.
02-13-13, 09:57 AM #24
- 483 Posts
With respect to the overall experience (inclusive of apps), then I think the established players have the advantage here. So items like screen share is nice, but if iOS/Android users want it, they’ll get it. The idea of a swappable battery is nice but when you don’t have to do battery pulls then what’s the point.
The BB10 Keyboard is great, but how long until iOS updates theirs and Android (or swiftkey) replicate? Screen share is avail on Cisco... device agnostic...
Multitasking, really.... I guess that ties back to being able to replace the battery.
To bring this back on topic, Blackberry killed when email wasn’t secure (BIS/BES) and instant chat wasn’t widely available on mobile devices (BBM). Active synch puts all other devices on par w/ an out of the box BB device and iMessage, Whatsapp, wechat, IMO, FB Chat... It’s a different world now... faster nibble players (app makers)... the barriers to entry is ridiculously low for anything (sans balance) that BB10 offers.
- CrackBerry User
02-13-13, 11:00 AM #25
- 30 Posts
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