[Kevstra]

I recently switched to Bell from Telus when I picked up this new Passport. When I was on Telus with my Z30, I would see the service as '4GLTE' in the top right corner. Now, with my Passport on Bell, I see just 'LTE'. What is the difference?

Just curious. Searched, but nothing was immediately obvious.

Posted via CB10

[Al moon]

real lte is much faster

[double_fault]

4GLTE - LTE = 4G

Posted via CB10

[Morten]

There is no saying what the difference is.. '4G' is not a defined standard, and is used as label for many different technologies, depending on the carrier.

ITU who is the organization who set the standard names 2G and 3G, has many times now tried their best to explain that '4G' is undefined, they have no such standard..

It's all because of some marketing people for carriers, with no tech knowledge, who started that name, and ignorant bloggers who don't know much more, has kept the name alive, and instead of educating the public, they add to the confusion.

The data standards today are HSPA, HSPA+, LTE, LTE+ and LTE Advanced

Some carriers labels their HSPA as '4G', some label LTE+ and some LTE Advanced..

The Technology behind HSPA/+ and LTE/+ is 'comparable', and build on 3Gpp standard..

The only 'next generation' standard, is LTE Advanced.. but, that is Not '4G' either.. 4G is not a defined standard..

Because of all this nonsense from the different carriers, BlackBerry must work with them and use the labels they require, .. so the same device, same OS version, can show different service name, depending on which carriers SIM is in the phone..

So the Only one who can tell you What is the difference between '4G' and '4GLTE', and 'LTE', will be your own carrier. All three versions can be the same service, depending on the carrier.

I just wish that tech bloggers would show a little bit more knowledge, and stop helping the carriers spread misinformation, and instead call it for what it is...

By using '4G' the carriers can make it sound like they have some brand new technology to sell, when it really is just a modification of their existing 3G network.

It's kinda strange that this is not yet picked up by Consumer protection agencies...

Just because ignorant companies, and people, keep repeating the wrong words, misinformation, does Not make it right...

[joeldf]

In this particular case, they are the same. The "LTE" is in both carrier's terminology, so LTE is the common denominator. Right now, no one is really using LTE Advanced (actually, I'm not sure what Verizon is trying to do), and all BlackBerry phones top out at regular LTE.

To take the post above a step into why one carrier says one and the other says something else, I use AT&T as an example.

Back when T-Mobile first started calling their HSPA+ network "4G", AT&T could have called them out on it, instead, they said "hey, we are using HSPA+, we'll call ours 4G too".

But once the real 4G came along in the form of LTE, what were these carriers to do to differentiate from what they had already been calling 4G for at least a year prior? Call it 4G-LTE, of course.

My son's Galaxy S4 indicates "4G LTE". But my Z10 just says "LTE". We are both on AT&T, and both are on LTE. It's just how AT&T decided to indicate the same network on each phone.

Usually, right after I do a clean autoloader of the OS, my network will say "4G LTE", and then once the phone is fully tied back into the AT&T network, it changes within about a minute to just "LTE". If I get too far outside of a good LTE signal, the network will drop to show just "4G", which I know on AT&T's network is really just HSPA+.

It's simply how each carrier you were on has decided to call the same network technology. Meaning, there is no difference.


Posted via CB10

[Morten]

..
But once the real 4G came along in the form of LTE, what were these carriers to do to differentiate from what they had already been calling 4G for at least a year prior? Call it 4G-LTE, of course.

It's simply how each carrier you were on has decided to call the same network technology. Meaning, there is no difference.

(didn't really want to rant here, but many times or week I have to explain this to so called "professors" and students,.. and I have explained here in CB many times as well... so just a little bit more ranting.. Its Easter only once pr year...)

What the carriers are doing, is basically to re-define already established definitions ....

Immagine how it would be if this happened to the definitions of Inch and foot.
1 AT&T foot could then end up being 12 Inches
1 Rogers foot could be 6 inches
1 T-Mobile foot could be 31 inches

well - that is what happens with "4G"!

Ask ITU what "4G" is..., we did ...
"4G" is undefined! they say.. but the first technology that can be considered to be next generation after 3G - 4G, is LTE Advanced and WirelessMAN-Advanced.
HSPA , HSPA+, LTE, LTE+ are all "comparable" technologies, building on 3gpp ... so 3G, not 4G!

the carriers could just as well have called it "12G" , would be just as meaningless

the stupidness in this whole thing is, How can the carriers be allowed to call different products the same thing, - just to confuse the consumer, and just as a way to make consumers more easily open their wallet and accept to pay more for a "next generation" service, which technically is not a next generation at all..

If we look at how consumers sees it, - they use the "G"s as a indicator of data speed

some carriers has "upgraded" their existing GSM/UMTS networks to HSPA+, they call it "4G" ..
it is not really an upgrade, it is an extension of what they already had, - Voice still use GSM/UMTS, the "4G" only relates to data..

these carriers who try to make their product look better than it is, by calling it "4G", some don't have the infrastructure in place to handle the datas peeds that can be achieved with HSPA+, but instead deliver speeds just a little bit more than what the users got with EDGE and UMTS.

A typical LTE+ network delivers in real life more data speed than HSPA+, but they are more or less just two different approaches to the same goal, - to extend the life of existing 3gpp networks...

Into the mix is also MC-HSPA,(Multi Carrier HSPA)
MC-HSPA in 3GPP R8 enables peak data rates of 42Mbps and twice the HSPA+ data rates across the coverage area by enabling users to simultaneously receive data through two 5MHz HSPA+ channels. MC-HSPA also enables operators to significantly increase the capacity to support users with bursty traffic.



and as if that was not enough, there are many minor versions of all of the above, with differences in how many download packages can be sent before upload of 1 package can happen etc... lots of small differences that for the end user can mean a lot for the total data speed experience.


The only things we can say for sure about the constructed alias "4G",are:

- 4G is NOT the standard you think it is...(many tech blogs write about a 4G Standard that is HSPA and LTE.. well it not true!)

- ITU Int, defined back in 2010 2 technologies as 4G: LTE Advanced, and WirelessMAN-Advanced
(ITU paves way for next-generation 4G mobile technologies)

- BlackBerry10 devices SUPPORT LTE Advanced! with up to 300Mbs
(List of devices with LTE Advanced - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

- 4G with one carrier is NOT the same as with a different carrier

- 4G does NOT say anything about the real speed you can experience on your phone

- 4G is NOT a next generation after 3G, it IS 3G, just with modernizations, better electronic and protocols

- HSPA+ networks can give similar speed for the handset as LTE+, it all depends on how the carrier has implemented it

- If you enable Only LTE / HSPA radio, you will not get any calls or text messages, LTE/HSPA is only for data! You also need to have UMTS or GSM enabled to use the normal GSM voice network...

- Carriers around the globe is still experimenting with Voice Over LTE and Voice Over HSPA, which is basically a version of IP Phone... but this also needs to be supported on the phone to work, not only the network

- LTE / HSPA radio consumes a lot of battery, so if your carrier permits, and you need to conserve battery, but still receive small emails, consider switching OFF the "4G", LTE, HSPA radio on your phone.. some carriers will then use EDGE instead, much slower, but much less battery drain. Some carriers will allow you to change which band/radio system is active, other carriers have locked this down and force you to always have them on...

- The radio bands used for all the technologies above, varies around the globe. So if you have a phone supporting LTE, that does NOT mean you will get LTE with Your carrier. It all depends on which frequencies/band they use. A few smartphones support all common frequencies such as the BlackBerry Passport. supporting the standards around the globe.. One device to conquer them all :-)

Modern phones, support all common frequency / bands for GSM, and only varies on the high-speed data part (HSPA/LTE), so most phones can be used as phones, world wide, - just not on the data network.

The facts talks for themselves, and when I see how ignorant the media is around these technologies, I wonder what knowledge some of the so called "journalists" have. And it is also strange, how BlackBerry has allowed carriers to dictate and control the label used for the different technologies, which leads to the confusing situation today, where one carries show 4G for HSPA , one carrier do it correct and show HSPA , one show 4G for LTE, and H+ for HSPA... It is a total Chaos!

The only truth is:
3G HSPA is HSPA or H
3G HSPA+ is HSPA+ or H+
3G LTE is LTE
3G LTE+ is LTE+
4G LTE Advanced


So please, lets stop using the word 4G, unless it is LTE Advanced we are talking about.

[double_fault]

Huh?

Posted via CB10

[Zeridialous]

The display of "4GLTE" vs "LTE" on your BlackBerry device is simply cosmetic, there's no change in the actual service. The phone detects how it should be displayed based on the SIM installed by loading various carrier-specific settings when the phone is started up.

For an example, see below:

TELUS -- Rogers (Comparison in how service type is displayed)
4G LTE -- LTE
H/H+ -- 4G

[Kevstra]

Wow, that explains a lot. Thanks everyone for the in-depth responses!

Posted via CB10

[ALToronto]

Thank you Morten and joeldf. I had no idea. So the Telus H+ service that I had on my Torch 9810 was essentially comparable to the Telus 4GLTE that I get on my Passport now? And the only reason for the difference in speed is the absence of data compression on the Passport?

Yes, I'm one of the ignorant consumers who had fallen for the terminology inflation that you described in your posts. I will ask more questions next time.

Now, does either of you know if Telus has plans for offering LTE Advanced in the near future?

Posted via CB10 from my awesome Passport

[Warios]

Here in DK is only 4G no LTE ! And there is no speed difference .

"So the real question is, can you feel a difference between 4G and LTE networks? Is the speed of loading a page or downloading an app on your handheld a lot faster if you have LTE technology built in? Probably not. While the difference between slower 3G networks and new 4G or LTE networks is certainly noticeably faster, most of the 4G and “true 4G” networks have upload and download speeds that are almost identical. For now, LTE is the fastest connection available for wireless network."

[thurask]

Thank you Morten and joeldf. I had no idea. So the Telus H+ service that I had on my Torch 9810 was essentially comparable to the Telus 4GLTE that I get on my Passport now? And the only reason for the difference in speed is the absence of data compression on the Passport?

Not at all.

From fastest to slowest:

LTE
H+
H
EDGE

You may notice that there's no 3G/4G in there, since whatever technical definitions they may be have been co-opted by marketers, making them frivolous marketing terms used by carriers who want to pass off slower services as top of the line.

[jope28]

On my phone, 4GLTE is the only "4G" that ever shows up. After that, the next one is H+.
I'm guessing that it all depends on what carrier one is on.


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[m3mb3rsh1p]

it bothers me too that my Wind network is displayed as 4G. I've seen it displayed as 3G a couple of times too. I know Wind uses HSPA+ only and falls back to Rogers' GSM network for roaming but it's another example of a carrier forced by marketing shenanigans to mislabel their technology.

Oh BTW one post above stated that HSPA is for data only i.e. no voice so it would be interesting to know how Wind pulls it off since they use 1700/2100 so definitely outside the "regular" GSM frequencies.