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  1. walt63's Avatar
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    Default Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Im going through some Apple threads about the latest iOS 6 update. I saw a list of bugs/issues that were present during launch that the new software update is expected to fix. I see why Scott Forstall was fired. His main role and responsibility was to ensure that the iPhone 5 and the iOS 6 software was legit and clicking on all cylinders. FAIL!!

    (bare with me, I'll get to the point soon)

    Though the iPhone 5 had record breaking sales, is was released with a few of the following issues:

    1. Bug that prevents iPhone 5 from installing software updates wirelessly over the air
    2. Bug where horizontal lines may be displayed across the keyboard
    3. Issue that could caused camera flash to not go off
    4. Weak reliability of iPhone 5 and iPod touch (5th generation) when connected to encrypted WPA2 Wi-Fi networks
    5. Issue that prevents iPhone from using the cellular network in some instances
    6. Passcode Lock bug which sometimes allowed access to Passbook pass details from lock screen
    7. Bug affecting Exchange meetings


    I credit Samsung Galaxy S III for this - what I call rushed - launch of Apple's new hardware and software. IMO, this is the result of feeling the pressure...similar to what BlackBerry has done in then past. Example, the PlayBook. RIM rushed to get something out just to say, "Hey we have one. We'll iron out the wrinkles later." That strategy is what got RIM to where it is today - losing (many) supporters while also gaining (many) bashers. If you're trying to gain market share in the US, that's not going to work. You can only hope that the ole' faithful stick it out with you and we all know how far commitment goes in the mobile game.

    I know we are (or were) upset about the delay of BB10. The BlackBerry Nation wanted something fresh and new and they wanted it NOW!! However, what if RIM decided to release a half baked BB10 and OS? After reading about the Apple mess and many realistic iPhoners disappointed, I'm now somewhat, if not totally supportive of the delayed BB10 launch. All this in hopes to release BB10 with outstanding software and hardware so I hope they are learning and taking notes, while we wait. Imagine BB10 launching with similar issues. One word, DONE!!

    RIM is under the microscope. Some pulling for success, while the nay-sayers are looking for complete failure. Those nay-sayers will be the ones looking in that same microscope for ANYTHING they can find wrong. The smallest issue will be brought to the light. BB10 needs to be 99.9% flawless at launch - hopefully that's enough for the media (probably not, but whatver). Out the box, it needs to be powerful and ready to go. Any major issues or bugs, such as: maps, gps, network or wireless signal, data issues, keyboard glitches, etc - all needs to be taken care of. No BS. RIM doesn't have the luxury to put out a half-baked OS and generate record breaking sales or increase user-base. This is their one and only shot.

    As for the delay, I commend Thorsten Heins and the revamped leadership of resisting the temptation and pressure to initially release on-time. They took a Bold step to ensure that RIM delivers quality to its users. They were aware of the repercussion of the delay and stood strong. Instead of adding fuel to the fire, they used this extra time to perform major check and balances, display BB10 at the executive level, create (somewhat) buzz worthy content, and cater to the developers - which is instrumental to their success.

    You learn from your past and make adjustments. Even if the public doesn't agree, you have the past experience to live by and know what not to do in the future.
  2. kozmo68's Avatar
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    #2  

    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    #WELLSAID!!
    Hater of all things APPLE.... Innovation, really? iphone = itouch with a phone, ipad = bigger itouch... give me a break!

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  3. jonduran86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Well said. i really hope BB10 is 99.9% flawless as well, for RIM's sake
  4. bigbadben10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    I think TH knew exactly what he was doing when he delayed BB10 plus the ramification of such a move. What you stated above is 100% correct, releasing a half baked product would have spelt doom for RIM. His only option was to release a well polished and innovative line of smartphones which he will do early next year.

    The anti RIM brigade will say what they will. It appears that Apple are tripping up over themselves, with shoddy implementation. Who really cares. I for one believe RIM will deliver a well executed product that will bring some true innovation to the smartphone market just like they did when they were at the top of their game. RIM is coming back in real style!
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  5. protomaxxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    there'll be plenty of bugs in the first release of bb10
  6. Gatmyer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by protofa View Post
    there'll be plenty of bugs in the first release of bb10
    Party Pooper. There always has to be one
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  7. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
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    #7  

    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    I think BB10 will be a very well polished OS when it's released. They just have to let people know that in a convincing way. And hopefully they won't have too many bugs to iron out. And hopefully nothing majorly harmful to the already fragile Blackberry reputation.
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  8. pr1nce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Even though many of us wanted or still want RIM to release BB10 now, it was the right decision to delay the launch and get it right. RIM might have just one shot at this to succeed.
  9. owadkelly's Avatar
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    Default Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    99.99% and the naysayers will still complain

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
  10. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Those are minor bugs and they don't seem to affect everybody and not all the time. Every major iteration of iOS has had minor bugs that were patched a month or two after release. Would it have been better to not have them? Of course, but that's not how software works in 2012. To suggest that Scott Forstall was fired over these bugs is.... silly. He was fired because he didn't toe the company line, simple as that.
  11. pcar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    my 9900 works fine and so does my iphone 5. I have not had any issues you so readily jumped on as a basis to declare FAIL and therefore rationalize the BB10 delay - "I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex. -Ah, come on. Nothing's more important than sex. -Oh, yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization?" ..... name that movie.
  12. knowledge_6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    a good software tester will never say an application, device etc is 100% bug free.... bugs are inevitable.. of course you want to reduce that risk of bugs, but there will always be bugs in any platform in any build etc.

    i think people have said it well here where the MAJOR bugs will be ironed out, where as those minor bugs where some people see them and some people don't will surface.. any i agree the nay slayers will always find SOMETHING wrong with it... i.e. "the Blackberry logo is too big"
  13. AT_Nepal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatmyer View Post
    Party Pooper. There always has to be one
    Today's softwares are so technically challenging that I imagine its incredibly difficult to roll out a brand new OS without bugs....
  14. walt63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by pcar View Post
    my 9900 works fine and so does my iphone 5. I have not had any issues you so readily jumped on as a basis to declare FAIL and therefore rationalize the BB10 delay - "I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex. -Ah, come on. Nothing's more important than sex. -Oh, yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization?" ..... name that movie.
    I can't name that movie, but I can elaborate on my use of the word FAIL.

    I think that it was a fail based on the fact that the guy's job was to make sure the software was good and ready and it wasnt. Well let me take that back. To the ones who are on Apple core believe the device was really evolutionary. For those who arent expressed great disappointment. They rushed it.

    The moral of the OP was to shine some light on a delayed BB10 launch. We all know that flawless is hard to come by but clearly the rules are different for RIM. Dont rush, be patient and do it right.
    Not a hippy, but I do appreciate peace, love, and happiness.
  15. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by walt63 View Post
    I can't name that movie, but I can elaborate on my use of the word FAIL.

    I think that it was a fail based on the fact that the guy's job was to make sure the software was good and ready and it wasnt. Well let me take that back. To the ones who are on Apple core believe the device was really evolutionary. For those who arent expressed great disappointment. They rushed it.
    So you're of the belief he got fired over a few minor bugs in iOS 6? WOW..... The guy who pretty much invented the iPhone got fired over a few bugs.... got fired over a few minor bugs.....

    I think most would agree it's because he was a pain in the arse to work with and he defied Tim Cook.
  16. walt63's Avatar
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    Default Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    So you're of the belief he got fired over a few minor bugs in iOS 6? WOW..... The guy who pretty much invented the iPhone got fired over a few bugs.... got fired over a few minor bugs.....

    I think most would agree it's because he was a pain in the arse to work with and he defied Tim Cook.
    Of course I speculated but maybe he did or maybe he didnt. Maybe it was years and years of continuing to put out phones with issues. Apple is still strong but Android is becoming just as strong. Apple may be stopping things before they got worse in this scenario. A company like Apple is only going to put up with mediocrity for so long.

    Sent from Bold 9930 #blackberrybychoice
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  17. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by walt63 View Post
    Of course I speculated but maybe he did or maybe he didnt. Maybe it was years and years of continuing to put out phones with issues. Apple is still strong but Android is becoming just as strong. Apple may be stopping things before they got worse in this scenario. A company like Apple is only going to put up with mediocrity for so long.

    Sent from Bold 9930 #blackberrybychoice
    Do you even read the news? Android is outselling iOS at greater than 4 to 1. It's not even close anymore. Every release of every smartphone OS has had minor bugs. That's not something that's going to change for a long time. If you want to continue believing that Forstall got fired because iOS 6 was released with something like 7 minor bugs, then please feel free to do so. It doesn't really coincide with reality, but that's your choice.
  18. walt63's Avatar
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    Default Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Do you even read the news? Android is outselling iOS at greater than 4 to 1. It's not even close anymore. Every release of every smartphone OS has had minor bugs. That's not something that's going to change for a long time. If you want to continue believing that Forstall got fired because iOS 6 was released with something like 7 minor bugs, then please feel free to do so. It doesn't really coincide with reality, but that's your choice.
    Well there you go. You just validated the OP. The software was rushed because of Androids incline in sales which is the MAIN point, not Forstall's firing. I honestly can care less about why he was fired. Trust me, he'll land another job or just retire rich.

    Feel free to dwell on Forstall all you like.

    P.S. Forstall was hired for his brain, not attitude or ability to mesh with the CEO. A good CEO wouldn't let someone like him go because of that. At that career level, companies pay big bucks for intelligence. Personality is secondary. At the end of the day, its about results.

    Sent from Bold 9930 #blackberrybychoice
    Not a hippy, but I do appreciate peace, love, and happiness.
  19. mikeo007's Avatar
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    Default Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by walt63 View Post
    Well there you go. You just validated the OP. The software was rushed because of Androids incline in sales which is the MAIN point, not Forstall's firing. I honestly can care less about why he was fired. Trust me, he'll land another job or just retire rich.

    Feel free to dwell on Forstall all you like.

    P.S. Forstall was hired for his brain, not attitude or ability to mesh with the CEO. A good CEO wouldn't let someone like him go because of that. At that career level, companies pay big bucks for intelligence. Personality is secondary. At the end of the day, its about results.

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    Apple never hired forstall at all, they bought him.
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  20. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by walt63 View Post
    Well there you go. You just validated the OP. The software was rushed because of Androids incline in sales which is the MAIN point, not Forstall's firing. I honestly can care less about why he was fired. Trust me, he'll land another job or just retire rich.

    Feel free to dwell on Forstall all you like.

    P.S. Forstall was hired for his brain, not attitude or ability to mesh with the CEO. A good CEO wouldn't let someone like him go because of that. At that career level, companies pay big bucks for intelligence. Personality is secondary. At the end of the day, its about results.

    Sent from Bold 9930 #blackberrybychoice
    Oh wow.... so rife with contradiction and error..... The MAIN point of the the OP was that iOS 6 was rushed because of Android's incline (your word) in sales??? I don't see the word "Android" anywhere in the OP. Android has been on a positive trajectory since the day it was released. If this is new to you, you haven't read tech news in over 3 years.

    You're original point was that Forstall was fired because of the minor bugs in the iOS 6 software.

    Quote Originally Posted by walt63 View Post
    I see why Scott Forstall was fired. His main role and responsibility was to ensure that the iPhone 5 and the iOS 6 software was legit and clicking on all cylinders. FAIL!!
    And then you go on to list the bugs that iOS 6.0.1 fixes.

    As for Forstall's brain.... I guess you never heard of corporate politics or power struggle.
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    This is what I'm worried about being an early adopter, I was thinking of waiting out on the first wave of BB10 phones and going for an A-series a little bit later for some of the bugs to be fixed. I was due for a phone upgrade since September and I'm still struggling if I should just get an android for a little while, testing it out and then go for the A-series. My phone contracts gets me a renewal every year. Would A-series come out in Nov 2013?
  22. jakie55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    BB10 will do what it is designed to do. There will be bugs...that is life. It will still be a great device, and worth owning. As are Android phones, WP8 phones, feature phones, and yes...Iphones.

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  23. walt63's Avatar
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    Default Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    @Roo Zilla

    Let me guess, you saw Apple and Forstall and went directly into defense mode. Im going to recommend that the read the entire OP, and not just the lead paragraph.

    I also eluded that SGSIII (which used the Android OS) was coming on strong and having great success which may have forced Apple to rush the iPhone 5 and iOS6. So technically/metaphorically, I did mention Android.

    The main point of the story (read the title please) is that RIM delayed the BB10 for the better. Not rushing it out to keep up.

    If you read the entire post, you would have made the connection between what Apple has done recently (I pointed it out in the lead paragraph) and what RIM has done in the past (I pointed this out later in OP) and how they made strides to do better.

    Look, don't over think it.



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  24. jasonvan9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Quote Originally Posted by walt63 View Post
    Example, the PlayBook. RIM rushed to get something out just to say, "Hey we have one. We'll iron out the wrinkles later." That strategy is what got RIM to where it is today - losing (many) supporters while also gaining (many) bashers. If you're trying to gain market share in the US, that's not going to work. You can only hope that the ole' faithful stick it out with you and we all know how far commitment goes in the mobile game.

    I know we are (or were) upset about the delay of BB10. The BlackBerry Nation wanted something fresh and new and they wanted it NOW!! However, what if RIM decided to release a half baked BB10 and OS? After reading about the Apple mess and many realistic iPhoners disappointed, I'm now somewhat, if not totally supportive of the delayed BB10 launch. All this in hopes to release BB10 with outstanding software and hardware so I hope they are learning and taking notes, while we wait. Imagine BB10 launching with similar issues. One word, DONE!!

    RIM is under the microscope. Some pulling for success, while the nay-sayers are looking for complete failure. Those nay-sayers will be the ones looking in that same microscope for ANYTHING they can find wrong. The smallest issue will be brought to the light. BB10 needs to be 99.9% flawless at launch - hopefully that's enough for the media (probably not, but whatver). Out the box, it needs to be powerful and ready to go. Any major issues or bugs, such as: maps, gps, network or wireless signal, data issues, keyboard glitches, etc - all needs to be taken care of. No BS. RIM doesn't have the luxury to put out a half-baked OS and generate record breaking sales or increase user-base. This is their one and only shot.

    As for the delay, I commend Thorsten Heins and the revamped leadership of resisting the temptation and pressure to initially release on-time. They took a Bold step to ensure that RIM delivers quality to its users. They were aware of the repercussion of the delay and stood strong. Instead of adding fuel to the fire, they used this extra time to perform major check and balances, display BB10 at the executive level, create (somewhat) buzz worthy content, and cater to the developers - which is instrumental to their success.

    You learn from your past and make adjustments. Even if the public doesn't agree, you have the past experience to live by and know what not to do in the future.
    If we had an estimate on the number of software engineers currently working on BB10 (core OS, UI, etc) and the hours they were working, I'm sure we could come up with some sort of percentage estimate on failure rate/ errors that will be present in BB10. But its a safe bet that their previous launch target of Q4 was barely missed, so they decided to move the launch a quarter which added substantially more time than they needed... (speculation only)

    I remember hearing the announcement from THOR about the final delay to Q1 2013 saying that the engineering teams were off in their time till completion date, im assuming because this is a completely new software and they were in the process of building and integrating the templates they'll be using and tweaking for the next 10 years, they mis calculated, it happens when you're working with new software and components.

    My best guess right now is they were on target for the Q4 launch, but as we've heard mentioned before, they werent 100% confident in releasing it to the public (learning from their mistakes) by the time the deadline came up so they pushed it back a quarter, but they didnt really need all the time to finish building and integrating the software pieces, so the majority of this time (# of software engineers x hours) has been spent going over everything they have done with a fine tooth comb fixing and correcting every error in the system. This should prove to be a very clean, stable, and reliable build right out of the box, approaching the 99% complete mark easily, but that last 1% as every programmer knows is always done after release once the customer gets their hands on the product and finds new problems using combinations you couldnt even imagine to cause chaos.

    Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall-exponentialgraph.jpg
    Take this exponential graph as an example, there is a point where its "complete enough" and than you launch, it then takes substantially more time to achieve small gains in the software and debug and fix any issues. This is the natural cycle programming takes, its going to happen, but the extra time RIM has kept BB10 under wraps is definitly going to help the launch code when it finally gets into our hands
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  25. Qaxl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Delaying BB10 May Not Be So Bad Afterall

    Nice Graph !
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