[daves_25]

a service like streaming music is going to be using what? 72kbps mp3? That's already a compressed audio stream, and you're not going to save anything by re-compressing it. I would sure as heck hope things like NetFlix (which obviously doesn't need my business) would also be using some sort of data compression.

Someone else mentioned it, and I'll repeat: why the heck would you be watching HD video on a smartphone? Get a bloody television. If you're outside of the house, certainly something else is happening that's more interesting that watching HD video.

[Rootbrian]

I truly hope that data compression is within bb10. Since I have an unlimited data plan with windmobile, it doesn't matter much.

[chrispipe]

They see me trollin, they hatin..

God bless the interwebs

[Ben1232]

They see me trollin, they hatin..

God bless the interwebs

Haha. The OP lost me with jargon in the first post let alone the rest.

[sk8er_tor]

@alby4ever, you need to get a life and stop trolling. Your replies add nothing to the topic of conversation and only serve to hijack this thread.

[purijagmohan]

http://crackberry.com/blackberry-os-...-9360-and-9380

Blackberry is adding FM radio circuitry.They know their business model.They have advantage in Email, Browsing, Social Networking etc for data compression.

For listening to radio stuff do it via FM radio circuitry, no need for a data plan.That's smart.

[Jake Storm]

@alby4ever, you need to get a life and stop trolling. Your replies add nothing to the topic of conversation and only serve to hijack this thread.

Yeah, I was surprised to see alby back here again.
I thought his mom banned him from the computer cause she caught him looking at porn.

[MoolahMitch]

That was highly entertaining stuff before I retire for the night, thanks everyone.

[Guyzer]

ignore user should be a two-click operation. I had to make 4 clicks to add alby to my ignore list. had to open up on a seperate page and give me a confirmation...

please someone make ignore users 2 click operation please

[Strider2112]

Some elements transmitted on the internet can be compressed by a factor of 2 or 3 or even more.

Other elements simply cannot be further compressed by any useful factor. These are elements that have already been highly compressed, such as most video and music. The only way to reduce size here is to recompress with less information (lower quality). That is something that cannot reasonably be done on the fly.

You can check this out on any desktop computer, with applications that package and compress files into files like rar and zip. Documents will often compress well, as will HTML pages. But not music and video. This simply basic "information theory" -- check out the meaning and implications of a file's "entropy."

RIM's compression is effective for web pages, email, most email attachments. It will not be very effective for music and especially video. As music and especially video begins to dominate that data that consumers use, RIM's compression loses its advantage for consumers. It still offers advantages for enterprises, but less so as data costs drop on higher speed networks.

Did anyone even read this guy's post? He's 100% right. You can't compress most audio or video because it's already compressed (even some pictures like .jpg). All a compression does is remove some parts that aren't needed. With audio and video you can't change any facts, if a video is 60 MB, and you download it through BIS, you're going to download 60 MB.

I support BlackBerry over other devices (because it's superior), but most media streaming isn't compressed (I have a 6 GB plan and I use about 1.5-2 of it per month on slacker, youtube, etc)

[blackguy07]

Did anyone even read this guy's post? He's 100% right. You can't compress most audio or video because it's already compressed (even some pictures like .jpg). All a compression does is remove some parts that aren't needed. With audio and video you can't change any facts, if a video is 60 MB, and you download it through BIS, you're going to download 60 MB.

I support BlackBerry over other devices (because it's superior), but most media streaming isn't compressed (I have a 6 GB plan and I use about 1.5-2 of it per month on slacker, youtube, etc)

im pretty sure ppl read what he wrote. reread his posts and read how he ends all of them.
he comes off as a know-it-all clown whose trolling

[Rootbrian]

im pretty sure ppl read what he wrote. reread his posts and read how he ends all of them.
he comes off as a know-it-all clown whose trolling

I would have hit the ! Button to catch him long ago, the mods would be having a kick ball!

[belfastdispatcher]

Did anyone even read this guy's post? He's 100% right. You can't compress most audio or video because it's already compressed (even some pictures like .jpg). All a compression does is remove some parts that aren't needed. With audio and video you can't change any facts, if a video is 60 MB, and you download it through BIS, you're going to download 60 MB.

I support BlackBerry over other devices (because it's superior), but most media streaming isn't compressed (I have a 6 GB plan and I use about 1.5-2 of it per month on slacker, youtube, etc)

So how do you explain downloading a 24mb mp3 podcast file using only 18mb of data? The original file was 24mb, the final downloaded file size on the phone 24mb, yet only 18mb of data were used. The file was downloaded but it can also be streamed. How is that different from streaming pandora or tunein?

Also how do you explain streaming tunein radio at a 35kb/s stream for over an hour while using less then 9mb(I was also navigating using bb maps at the time while roaming so the data usage measurement came straight from the carrier not even an app)

Face it, BIS compresses all data that passes trough it and it's by far the biggest benefit for me.

[M.Rizk]

I am sorry if I am joining this little flame war late,

But I have got a great knowledge about this section,
Youtube is NOT compressed by RIM Servers, If you are using the normal streaming through BlackBerry Media Player Kit to run Youtube videos and you will get the POP-UP of Streaming may cost you more which means your device is switching to WAP2 Transport which is used by the iPhone and Android devices.

RIM can't compress RTSP:// protocol at all, it doesn't even pass through their servers. However RIM can compress Youtube on the PlayBook as it passes in plain .flv files not in Streaming Protocol.

Panadora or any other streaming services is not compressed by a single KB! You guys won't feel that at the US and Canada, because your carriers usually give you like 1 GB to be used in any device not just BlackBerry and adds like a 10$ access fee to the NOC. But in the Middle East BlackBerries got a special separate plans which includes no Streaming just PURE USAGE OVER BlackBerry.net APN which compresses only Webpages, downloads, Youtube videos on PlayBook only.

----------------
Summary:
What RIM can compress:
Everything running through BlackBerry.net APN as:

1. Web pages
2. HTML5
3. Downloads
4. Pictures
5. Youtube running on the PlayBook
6. Emails & Attachments

What RIM can't compress:
Everything that requires WAP2 Transport using Generic APN (as here gprs.qtel APN for Qatar Qtel):

1. Youtube over BlackBerry Smartphones
2. Panadora, other radios
3. RTSP:// protocol
4. VoIP
5. Data through Mobile Hotspot

So Yes, the statement posted by the OP is incorrect, having BlackBerry is not what makes Pandora streams for less data unless the app has a feature to stream lower quality music which will be something from Pandora end not RIM's. I wish we see the compression available on BB10 devices as carriers here in the Middle East still respect us as BlackBerry users by Unlimited BlackBerry.net transport Data while other devices as iPhones and Androids never get Unlimited Data.

[belfastdispatcher]

With OS6 and before that would happen and BIS would get disconnected while watching a youtube video and reconnect after.

With OS7 that no longer hapens, you can watch a youtube video and your BIS is still active, bbms and emails still come trough.

Can BIS and Wap run at the same time?

[M.Rizk]

With OS6 and before that would happen and BIS would get disconnected while watching a youtube video and reconnect after.

With OS7 that no longer hapens, you can watch a youtube video and your BIS is still active, bbms and emails still come trough.

Can BIS and Wap run at the same time?

I can confirm that up to OS7.1 Youtube still uses WAP2 Transport not BIS, I can monitor the Data type in my account and it shows well the APN my device used, if it was BIS it will show BlackBerry.net APN, but if WAP2 it shows gprs.qtel

I've got a friend working as the BlackBerry Marketing Manager at Etisalat Egypt the leading HSPA+ Carrier in Egypt, he can monitor the data fully for all customers within Egypt, he confirmed what I have listed here on the forums.

Not because Youtube interface on OS7 and OS7.1 is in HTML5 that means video are in HTML5 too, no they are using RTSP for Videos.

Forgot to tell you that 3G(UMTS and HSPA+) can create multi connections the same time, you can use Mobile Hotspot(WAP2 Connection 1) BIS(BIS Connection 1) and at the same time stream a Youtube video(WAP2 Connection 2) now we've reached 3 connections the same time! they all share the speed yeh, but you can create many connections, may last test reached 9 connections at once the test was carried using Nokia, as I was able to create a separate connection for each app.

[belfastdispatcher]

I can confirm that up to OS7.1 Youtube still uses WAP2 Transport not BIS, I can monitor the Data type in my account and it shows well the APN my device used, if it was BIS it will show BlackBerry.net APN, but if WAP2 it shows gprs.qtel

I've got a friend working as the BlackBerry Marketing Manager at Etisalat Egypt the leading HSPA+ Carrier in Egypt, he can monitor the data fully for all customers within Egypt, he confirmed what I have listed here on the forums.

Not because Youtube interface on OS7 and OS7.1 is in HTML5 that means video are in HTML5 too, no they are using RTSP for Videos.

That's not answering my question though, can BIS and Wap transport run at the same time? On OS6 they couldn't but on my 9900 BIS is active while streaming a youtube video.

By the way, I don't know about pandora but others like TuneIn. Let you choose if you want to stream using direct wap or BIS,

So radio can most definately be streamed using BIS.

[M.Rizk]

That's not answering my question though, can BIS and Wap transport run at the same time? On OS6 they couldn't but on my 9900 BIS is active while streaming a youtube video.

By the way, I don't know about pandora but others like TuneIn. Let you choose if you want to stream using direct wap or BIS,

So radio can most definately be streamed using BIS.

Yes, all BB Devices since 9000 (All that got 3G) can do multi connections, BIS and WAP the same time, also can do calls with both running in back ground! Only when under 3G coverage

[yeohda]

Thank you guys for the entertainment! Regardless of who's right or wrong, it's good to see some passion amongst the users

I think the OP had good intentions but let me take it away in a slightly different direction:
How much does compression matter? For whom (users or carriers)? How much does it save (again, users and carriers)? and also, what is the cost?
Cost has two meanings:
Firstly monetary terms: How much is data compression potentially saving me each month? How much is it saving the carrier each month (if at all)?
The second aspect of cost is the time: by requiring the NOC to compress the data and send it to my phone am I saving time through transmission of smaller file sizes or am I losing time through the compression process? Or is there no difference in time?

Lastly, someone posted the link to the CB article on data usage across different phones, that was good to see but (don't hate me now) it is only half a story without knowing how often and what the phones were being used for. What would be nice if maybe CB could do a head to head comparison: load up identical webpages or emails or videos, whatever, on an iPhone, Android and a BlackBerry (and maybe a W7P) and properly show us the difference in not just speed but also data usage. My point is, if data compression has marginal benefits but significant impacts on speed (positive of negative) then that is what matters to me. Like some people said, I don't need to watch HD videos on my phone now or in the future, but I would like to load websites quickly, have good html 5 compatibility (yay for RIM) and watch the occasional video in decent quality and do it all quickly. I don't get near my data cap (15GB) in Singapore, the highest I've got is 3GB and I have wondered whether it was due to compression because in that month I used my Bold as a modem for my laptop and used it extensively for movies, surfing the web, etc.

**Disclaimer: BlackBerry rocks.

[M.Rizk]

Thank you guys for the entertainment! Regardless of who's right or wrong, it's good to see some passion amongst the users

I think the OP had good intentions but let me take it away in a slightly different direction:
How much does compression matter? For whom (users or carriers)? How much does it save (again, users and carriers)? and also, what is the cost?
Cost has two meanings:
Firstly monetary terms: How much is data compression potentially saving me each month? How much is it saving the carrier each month (if at all)?
The second aspect of cost is the time: by requiring the NOC to compress the data and send it to my phone am I saving time through transmission of smaller file sizes or am I losing time through the compression process? Or is there no difference in time?

Lastly, someone posted the link to the CB article on data usage across different phones, that was good to see but (don't hate me now) it is only half a story without knowing how often and what the phones were being used for. What would be nice if maybe CB could do a head to head comparison: load up identical webpages or emails or videos, whatever, on an iPhone, Android and a BlackBerry (and maybe a W7P) and properly show us the difference in not just speed but also data usage. My point is, if data compression has marginal benefits but significant impacts on speed (positive of negative) then that is what matters to me. Like some people said, I don't need to watch HD videos on my phone now or in the future, but I would like to load websites quickly, have good html 5 compatibility (yay for RIM) and watch the occasional video in decent quality and do it all quickly. I don't get near my data cap (15GB) in Singapore, the highest I've got is 3GB and I have wondered whether it was due to compression because in that month I used my Bold as a modem for my laptop and used it extensively for movies, surfing the web, etc.

**Disclaimer: BlackBerry rocks.

For Middle East users it saves us life, we may get an Unlimited BIS Plan for a max of 80$ which gives us UNLIMITED with no fair usage policy even when Roaming!! Or may just pay 50$ or less for Unlimited local usage.

For example by Egyptian SIM card gives me Unlimited BlackBerry Roaming while in the UAE or KSA just for the same I pay for the local plan, the Local Plan is 4.5LE daily which is equivalent to less than 0.75$ per day for FULL UNLIMITED BIS USAGE!

[qbnkelt]

BB phones don't use as much data as high end smartphones because they can't do as much (Netflix, Skype, a lot of other media, etc).

You can browse the web and email all day on iPhones and Androids and still not go near the data cap. It's just when you decide to use a smartphone like a smartphone then the data starts going up. Even if Netflix and Skype were available on BB, the compression doesn't touch their services.

Good try. Didn't know people were still using the data compression card. Thought we all saw through that comical argument. I don't think the public is stupid enough to drop their favorite media apps so they can browse and email more on a BB

Skype is available on my 9930 and my 9670. Didn't know people are still using the "no Skype on a BB" card.


People won't drop their favourite media apps. The carrier will throttle their data making the use of such apps nearly impossible.

[belfastdispatcher]

Ok, maybe youtube doesn't get compressed but, if I go to my local tv station website and click on their news video I get presented with two option, save or open, if I click on open it will stream the news video and it will stream it trough BIS with compression.

[M.Rizk]

Ok, maybe youtube doesn't get compressed but, if I go to my local tv station website and click on their news video I get presented with two option, save or open, if I click on open it will stream the news video and it will stream it trough BIS with compression.

That's right, it will be counted as Downloading even if you choose to open it not save and will be compressed as it is over http protocol in a known file type as .mp4 or .3gp

[Dave79]

Just wondering if you guys think we will still see a lot of the data compression we see now on devices on the newer bb10 devices.

I was wondering the same thing. I travel often among European countries for business and I wouldnt like to have a new generation bb device without compression as I see most of iphone and android user either getting blood bath bill or either turn off data while roaming only to try to hook up to a free wifi all day long.

The European Commission should enforce a new pricing for data roaming in Europe but up to now the fees are still pretty high, if you travel a lot you need a blackberry.

I will be very disappointed if BB10 wont have the same usage of the noc, in this case I will be keep the bb7.1 devices.

[redrumsilence]

My bold 9900 hit the can a few weeks ago, insurance excess demanded something cheaper, so i replaced it with a SGSII
I use my phone for the following
wifi tether (home laptop, work laptop, Xbox Live, PlayBook, iPod Touch, Sky+ HD box)
I use TuneIn most nights overnight
30-40 emails a day
Google+, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Tumblr, 4sq
Google Reader
general web browsing
a couple of mobile online games

I'm on 3uk with one the One Plan (unltd data)
I've used 89.59GB with 4 days left

I've used much the same amount with my BB before
data compression ain't sh!t