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  1. 1REDRUM's Avatar
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    #51  

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    All I know is my friend who was sat through a live demo with a final unit said it can do everything the Apple and Samsungs of the world can do but does it faster...as it relates to the browser....I specifically asked if it was on LTE and he said no it was on wifi
  2. #52  

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    All I can see is that the javascript issue is still there (the hanging on the end of the loading. the page is all there, but javascript is still being processed so the bar doesn't finish loading).

    For the rest, the test does not pitch both devices in the same condictions so it can't really be a reference. Have both devices on the same networkl both with sim cards in and then we can do testing. Even better if both are sim-less and on wifi, so signal strenght doesn't get in the way.
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  3. calicocat2010's Avatar
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    #53  

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    Anybody notice how the bb10's keyboard takes up a little more screen space than the Iphone 5 and SG3?
    I wait for the future...to COME back to BlackBerry!
  4. big bb's Avatar
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    #54  

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    I am not sure about the iPhone 5 or S3, but the nexus 4 and the Dev Alpha keyboard is the same it just the nexus 4 keyboard sits higher on the screen because of the on screen buttons.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Browser on BB10 "A game changer"-img-20121217-00230.jpg  
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  5. Double_J75's Avatar
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    #55  

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    I started another thread but figured I'd post it here as well.

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  6. Double_J75's Avatar
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    #56  

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    Gah sorry guys I didn't realize this has been posted already
  7. samab's Avatar
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    #57  

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    Quote Originally Posted by diegonei View Post
    All I can see is that the javascript issue is still there (the hanging on the end of the loading. the page is all there, but javascript is still being processed so the bar doesn't finish loading).
    Multiple crackberry members including xsacha (the guy who wrote the Playbook rooting software) had stated that the dev alpha A is downclocked from 1.5 GHz to 1 GHz. And dev alpha B users have posted about the same sunspider scores as dev alpha A users --- thus the dev alpha B is also downclocked from 1.5 GHz to 1 GHz.

    So of course the Galaxy S3 is going to be faster because it has a 1.5 GHz dual krait core (which is faster than cortex A9) CPU vs. dev alpha B with a downclocked 1 GHz dual core cortex A9 CPU.

    If you interpolate the sunspider scores, a fully clocked 1.5 GHz Blackberry 10 will have about the same sunspider score as the iphone 5 --- which is going to be a lot faster than the Android counterparts.
  8. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #58  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Multiple crackberry members including xsacha (the guy who wrote the Playbook rooting software) had stated that the dev alpha A is downclocked from 1.5 GHz to 1 GHz. And dev alpha B users have posted about the same sunspider scores as dev alpha A users --- thus the dev alpha B is also downclocked from 1.5 GHz to 1 GHz.

    So of course the Galaxy S3 is going to be faster because it has a 1.5 GHz dual krait core (which is faster than cortex A9) CPU vs. dev alpha B with a downclocked 1 GHz dual core cortex A9 CPU.

    If you interpolate the sunspider scores, a fully clocked 1.5 GHz Blackberry 10 will have about the same sunspider score as the iphone 5 --- which is going to be a lot faster than the Android counterparts.
    You may be right, but it's dangerous to interpret sunspider scores like that. The basic formula for calculating sunspider scores is not solely dependent on the CPU, and we really have no BB10 units running at a different clock speed to see the actual performance ratio (I don't think we do anyway, correct me if I'm wrong).

    Case in point, the iPad and iPhone (pre iOS6 versions), when upgraded to iOS6 (which had a newer nitro javascript engine) showed about a 20% improvement in JS performance without any change in CPU at all.
    Another example, the stock Android JB browser has considerably better Sunspider scores than Chrome running on the same device.

    This shows that:

    1. RIM can improve the JS performance without any changes to the actual hardware
    2. You can't directly predict JS performance based on clock speed alone
    3. Sunspider is not an accurate measure of overall CPU performance
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  9. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar

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    #59  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    You may be right, but it's dangerous to interpret sunspider scores like that. The basic formula for calculating sunspider scores is not solely dependent on the CPU, and we really have no BB10 units running at a different clock speed to see the actual performance ratio (I don't think we do anyway, correct me if I'm wrong).

    Case in point, the iPad and iPhone (pre iOS6 versions), when upgraded to iOS6 (which had a newer nitro javascript engine) showed about a 20% improvement in JS performance without any change in CPU at all.
    Another example, the stock Android JB browser has considerably better Sunspider scores than Chrome running on the same device.

    This shows that:

    1. RIM can improve the JS performance without any changes to the actual hardware
    2. You can't directly predict JS performance based on clock speed alone
    3. Sunspider is not an accurate measure of overall CPU performance
    This is 100% correct. The BB10 Dev browser is NOT the same browser as the full device. It is close, but things have been removed/crippled. I forgot to test the sunspider results last week when I was playing with one lol.
    mithrazor likes this.
  10. aha
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    #60  

    Default Browser on BB10 "A game changer"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    Blackberry clearly faster
    For the test where lots of colored dots moving fast on screen, there way more dots on GSIII's screen than BB10 Dev Alpha.
  11. samab's Avatar
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    #61  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    You may be right, but it's dangerous to interpret sunspider scores like that. The basic formula for calculating sunspider scores is not solely dependent on the CPU, and we really have no BB10 units running at a different clock speed to see the actual performance ratio (I don't think we do anyway, correct me if I'm wrong).

    Case in point, the iPad and iPhone (pre iOS6 versions), when upgraded to iOS6 (which had a newer nitro javascript engine) showed about a 20% improvement in JS performance without any change in CPU at all.
    Another example, the stock Android JB browser has considerably better Sunspider scores than Chrome running on the same device.

    This shows that:

    1. RIM can improve the JS performance without any changes to the actual hardware
    2. You can't directly predict JS performance based on clock speed alone
    3. Sunspider is not an accurate measure of overall CPU performance
    Webkit javascript performance is directly related to how close you are to the main webkit's JavaScriptCore development tree. Apple also has the advantage by rewriting the javascript engine from scratch in-house and then dump the entirely new (and formerly proprietary) javascript engine to the open source webkit community afterwards. Then other open source webkit participants have to spend months trying to understand those newly dumped formerly proprietary source code --- while Apple has months of head start and claims the javascript speed record. This is the main reason for these big Apple speed jumps.

    The last time Apple dumping a brand new javacript engine onto the webkit community was back in March --- the only thing that matter is whether RIM has incorporated this javascript engine into the BB10 browser.

    New low level JavaScript interpreter to boost WebKit performance more than 200%

    We are sufficiently close to the BB10 launch that I don't see any chance of RIM suddenly migrates to a different webkit JavaScriptCore branch right now --- and there is no new Apple dumping brand new javacript engine in the last couple of months. The source code that RIM posted was based on webkit source code back in August 2012. Nothing extraordinary happened from August to December.

    https://github.com/blackberry/WebKit...0_09/ChangeLog

    Right now, RIM is fixing bugs and maybe even adding new "chrome" features (like bookmarking abilities). What you see basically on the dev alpha's is going to be on the final BB10 browser --- as far as webkit core and JavaScriptCore are concerned.

    PS: the dot's benchmark in the video is really about benchmarking the GPU --- which the other smartphones have dual core GPU's or triple core GPU's vs single core GPU on the dev alpha B.
    Last edited by samab; 12-17-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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  12. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #62  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Webkit javascript performance is directly related to how close you are to the main webkit's JavaScriptCore development tree. Apple also has the advantage by rewriting the javascript engine from scratch in-house and then dump the entirely new (and formerly proprietary) javascript engine to the open source webkit community afterwards. Then other open source webkit participants have to spend months trying to understand those newly dumped formerly proprietary source code --- while Apple has months of head start and claims the javascript speed record. This is the main reason for these big Apple speed jumps.

    The last time Apple dumping a brand new javacript engine onto the webkit community was back in March --- the only thing that matter is whether RIM has incorporated this javascript engine into the BB10 browser.

    New low level JavaScript interpreter to boost WebKit performance more than 200%

    We are sufficiently close to the BB10 launch that I don't see any chance of RIM suddenly migrates to a different webkit JavaScriptCore branch right now --- and there is no new Apple dumping brand new javacript engine in the last couple of months. The source code that RIM posted was based on webkit source code back in August 2012. Nothing extraordinary happened from August to December.

    https://github.com/blackberry/WebKit...0_09/ChangeLog

    Right now, RIM is fixing bugs and maybe even adding new "chrome" features (like bookmarking abilities). What you see basically on the dev alpha's is going to be on the final BB10 browser --- as far as webkit core and JavaScriptCore are concerned.
    Nobody is forced to use Apple's contributions, RIM included. Take Google's V8 JS engine for example.
    Again, you may be right that RIM will not do any further optimizations to the JS engine, but again there's nothing stopping them from doing so.
  13. Professional_Tickle_Fighter's Avatar
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    #63  

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    Super-zippy, lol
  14. samab's Avatar
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    #64  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Nobody is forced to use Apple's contributions, RIM included. Take Google's V8 JS engine for example.
    Again, you may be right that RIM will not do any further optimizations to the JS engine, but again there's nothing stopping them from doing so.
    Google does the same thing as well. Android manufacturers that make the Nexus flagship gets preferred OS access --- months ahead of everybody else.

    There is NOTHING to do further optimization on. The big speed difference is going to be whether RIM incorporated the new javascript engine (Low Level Interpreter). Any further optimization would be the speed increase between ios 6 to ios 6.01 to ios 6.1 --- not very much.

    Webkit Core and JavascriptCore are two pieces of critical browser components that have to be fully betatested --- it means that RIM certainly won't spring a brand new webkit core or a brand new javascriptcore onto the final BB10 handset without testing them on the dev alpha.
  15. eve6er69's Avatar
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    #65  

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    again brings me back to the score and performance. yes a higher score but thats numbers. looks good on paper. in real life looks to load a little more info than the i5 because of the full html so there for it ran a tad slower. id like to see them clear the cache of both devices and go to about 10 websites to see which is faster on average.
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  16. lorax1284's Avatar
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    #66  

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    So what RIM needs to do is release both Bridge and the BB10 Browser as standalone apps on Android and iOS. But keep BBM as platform exclusive.
    I was tapering off. I'm all tapered out now.
  17. samab's Avatar
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    #67  

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    Quote Originally Posted by eve6er69 View Post
    again brings me back to the score and performance. yes a higher score but thats numbers. looks good on paper. in real life looks to load a little more info than the i5 because of the full html so there for it ran a tad slower. id like to see them clear the cache of both devices and go to about 10 websites to see which is faster on average.
    The iphone 5 with a dual core 1.3 GHz CPU vs. a downclocked dual core 1 GHz dev alpha b --- the hardware in iphone 5 is a lot faster.
  18. mithrazor's Avatar
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    #68  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    The iphone 5 with a dual core 1.3 GHz CPU vs. a downclocked dual core 1 GHz dev alpha b --- the hardware in iphone 5 is a lot faster.
    TI OMAP 4470 1.5Ghz dual core on Dev Alpha B. iPhone processor is still a lot better.
  19. samab's Avatar
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    #69  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mithrazor View Post
    TI OMAP 4470 1.5Ghz dual core on Dev Alpha B. iPhone processor is still a lot better.
    Numerous postings from veteran crackberry members (including xsacha who wrote the Playbook rooting software) have stated dev alphas have 1.5 GHz OMAP CPU's that are downclocked to 1 GHz.

    The LTE Playbook which sports a full speed 1.5 GHz OMAP4460 but runs on ancient Playbook OS 2.01 --- gets a better sunspider score (1400 sunspider) than people with dev alpha's (which is around 1500 sunspider).

    BlackBerry PlayBook 4G LTE hands-on
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    #70  

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    I think the real test will come when we have our hands on the actual hardware, NOT A Dev Alpha, and when we have some gold code, NOT some crippled alpha developer only software! That being said what is shown in the videos does look promising, and what little we have been shown of production like hardware has looked good too. I'm pumped!
    diegonei likes this.
  21. missing_K-W's Avatar
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    #71  

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    RIM has the technology to guarantee the fastest browsing experience. Just how it is folks

    RIM patent app will have you barely browsing the web at incredible speeds
    "I gotta Z10......I gotta Z10....Hey...Hey...Hey....Hey"........
  22. aha
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    #72  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double_J75 View Post
    I started another thread but figured I'd post it here as well.

    I5 clearly wins on loading the ad banner at 2:43
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    #73  

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    #74  

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    Skip to 0:45 for the dramatic differences.
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    #75  

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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Skip to 0:45 for the dramatic differences.
    There is a huge difference in CPU speed as well. A Krait core is 20-30% faster than a Cortex A9 core running at the same speed. A dual Krait core at 1.5 GHz is going to be close to twice as fast as a dual Cortex A9 core at 1 GHz.
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