[JSmith422]

OK, so assuming bb10 doesn't survive much longer, eventually we're all going to have to migrate to a new platform.

While many on this site have debated the security (or lack thereof) of Blackberry Android vs BB10.

I haven't seen any debates about Blackberry Android vs IOS. Unfortunately, even for us diehards, it seems eventually we're going to have to make that choice....Blackberry Android or IOS?

The term security gets tossed around a LOT, and it means something different to everyone. So for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that Blackberry did its job with Blackberry Android and it's secure from EXTERNAL threats, and that with IOS being fairly locked down, it is as well.

Where these OS's seem to be lacking "security" is in data mining and user data privacy . So we will define security as just that......keeping your data, as YOUR data. Not Google's, not Apples, and not some App's you downloaded. So anything from your contact list, photos, emails, usage, location, etc etc.

With that in mind, which do you all think is more "secure " (less data mining, more privacy) and why?

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[Troy Tiscareno]

Both are about the same. Both platforms will allow you to turn off sharing of this data (or, in most cases, you can choose not to turn it on in the first place). Of course, you'll quickly find that so many handy, important things cease to work - or will work with many extra steps - if you don't have this data sharing enabled to allow data to be linked to and transferred from one app to another or to be backed up on the cloud. Modern versions of either device are designed to use cloud storage and backup of your contacts, photos, etc., and alternative backup options are clunky and sometimes limited.

Neither company sells your data - it would be CRAZY for them to sell your data, in fact, because they could only get money for that data once (plus, of course, their customers would be livid). By them keeping your data private, they maintain control of their ad systems and sell anonymous access to you to advertisers. Advertisers don't get to see who you are or anything about you unless you buy something from them and give them that data (which they'd have regardless if you bought from them) - rather, if an advertiser is selling, say, socks, then that advertiser could build a profile of likely sock buyers, and pay for 100,000 ad impressions, and Google would then see to it that that group (who, again, the advertiser gets no individual data for) would see the ad.

Most people who are worried about Apple or Google having access to your data probably shared their data with BB - or they got used to many of their apps (even native, pre-installed BB apps) being VERY clunky to use. Those same people likely also use either Chrome or Safari to browse, so Apple and Google likely have plenty of data about you anyway.

With the one iCloud breach aside, Apple and Google have proven to be very good stewards of user data - both suing the government over transparency issues and routinely fighting against unreasonable data requests. With the money they have, they can afford to hire the best network and data security people in the world - and they have done just that.

Of course, everyone has their own ideas, but between these two, there isn't a ton of difference - they both do more-or-less the same things the same way.

[Elephant_Canyon]

Privacy - Approach to Privacy - Apple

[Old_Mil]

Android permits the most data mining. Every app you install demands permission to access some combination of your calls, texts, emails, contacts, microphone, and camera and transmit that to whichever servers they want. Then there is the way android harvests data about nearby WiFi networks and transmits that to Google. The os was basically designed as one giant corporate espionage tool to track everything about its users.

IOS and Windows phone are better because they give you some degree of control over what different apps access. Windows 10 does quite a bit of monitoring on behalf of Microsoft by default but you can turn quite a bit of that off (unlike with android where you can't turn off much of anything).

The sad thing about the androidberries is that they don't even offer the same degree of control over permissions that the one secure / private android to date - the blackphone - did.

[JSmith422]

Seems like most people feel IOS is more secure/private.....and I guess I agree, but man do I dislike their functionality (or lack thereof of). Every time I pick one up I'm constantly reminded of all the things the iphone can't do that my old BB10 phone does easily. The android devices are better at many of those things, but then you're subject to a high degree of data mining. So what's a guy to do? Seems like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

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[Elephant_Canyon]

Every time I pick one up I'm constantly reminded of all the things the iphone can't do that my old BB10 phone does easily.

For example?

[markmall]

It is a disgrace that our governments allow Google and app makers to mine data and own our data when we really have so few alternatives.

Anyone ever wonder what would happen if China purchased Google? Or more realistically smaller app companies that have collected reams and reams of our data? How about organized crime buying app companies and extorting people with compromising information?

After bb10 becomes unusable, we can use iOS or get data mined whether we like it or not. I hope the new government in the US changes everything and calls out Google.



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[anon(9353145)]

For example?

I'd say native BlackBerry Hub is a thousand times better than native iOS mail. And Gmail is superior to iOS mail. Yes you can get third party apps but...

Google and BB10 keyboards are superior to native iOS keyboard (prediction engine is subpar, again imho).

Bb10 active frames and Android recent windows flow better than iOS double tap method...

iPhone definitely has the best designed third party apps on the other hand but then you're potentially opening yourself up for privacy, etc.

Used iPhone for years and had lots of third party apps myself, just saying.

[Elephant_Canyon]

I'd say native BlackBerry Hub is a thousand times better than native iOS mail. And Gmail is superior to iOS mail. Yes you can get third party apps but...

Google and BB10 keyboards are superior to native iOS keyboard (prediction engine is subpar, again imho).

Bb10 active frames and Android recent windows flow better than iOS double tap method...

So no real examples of functional things that are not possible on iOS. Just navigational preferences and a dislike of the built-in email client, which can be replaced.

[anon(9353145)]

So no real examples of functional things that are not possible on iOS. Just navigational preferences and a dislike of the built-in email client, which can be replaced.

Definitely a personal preference, yes. Didn't mean to sound snarky, apologies if I did.

[Elephant_Canyon]

Definitely a personal preference, yes. Didn't mean to sound snarky, apologies if I did.

You didn't sound snarky, but I always do. No worries

[JSmith422]

For example?

First couple of things that come to mind that it's lacking are fully customizable notification profiles on an account by account basis, truly functional multitasking, customizable file management/hierarchy and IOS has a limited browser experience (apple may have improved this, but it's still not on par with bb10), I regularly have 150 to 200 tabs open in my browser for research purposes.....haven't been able to find an iPhone yet that can have 200 tabs open.

You guys tell me if I'm wrong on those things, I don't play with an iPhone regularly enough to keep completely current on functionality.

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[syplex]

I regularly have 150 to 200 tabs open in my browser for research purposes.....haven't been able to find an iPhone yet that can have 200 tabs open.

Can you have that many tabs open on your BB10 phone? Or on Android? My BB10 browser crashes regularly and seems to crash more frequently the more tabs I have open.

[Ment]

It is a disgrace that our governments allow Google and app makers to mine data and own our data when we really have so few alternatives.

Anyone ever wonder what would happen if China purchased Google? Or more realistically smaller app companies that have collected reams and reams of our data? How about organized crime buying app companies and extorting people with compromising information?

After bb10 becomes unusable, we can use iOS or get data mined whether we like it or not. I hope the new government in the US changes everything and calls out Google.



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All large company mergers and acquisitions get reviewed and okayed by the government so Google would never be sold to an unfriendly country, just like the sale of Blackberry would be able to be vetoed by Canada. GOOGLE market cap is so huge that it'd have to split apart to be sold anyway.

If you are worried about privacy leakage I'd be more concerned about your credit card company, carrier and other web entities as they have no problem actually selling your raw data. There is a whole industry of data brokers that collect and sell info as their business model. In fact Facebook uses those companies to get access to that info to supplement its own data.

So is Google a concern, yes but its far down the list from the above.

[JSmith422]

All large company mergers and acquisitions get reviewed and okayed by the government so Google would never be sold to an unfriendly country, just like the sale of Blackberry would be able to be vetoed by Canada. GOOGLE market cap is so huge that it'd have to split apart to be sold anyway.

If you are worried about privacy leakage I'd be more concerned about your credit card company, carrier and other web entities as they have no problem actually selling your raw data. There is a whole industry of data brokers that collect and sell info as their business model. In fact Facebook uses those companies to get access to that info to supplement its own data.

So is Google a concern, yes but its far down the list from the above.

....the credit card companies are notorious for this. Makes me cringe. But it's a "choice" to use a credit card, I have the option to pay in cash if I'd like to. Whereas with cell phones, it would be tough to be a functioning member of society and hold many (most) jobs available to people in the western world.

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[Ment]

....the credit card companies are notorious for this. Makes me cringe. But it's a "choice" to use a credit card, I have the option to pay in cash if I'd like to. Whereas with cell phones, it would be tough to be a functioning member of society and hold many (most) jobs available to people in the western world.

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Thats true but people who harp on Google and don't take obvious more effective steps like limiting CC/loyalty/store card use just can't be taken seriously other than to have an ax to grind.

[JSmith422]

Thats true but people who harp on Google and don't take obvious more effective steps like limiting CC/loyalty/store card use just can't be taken seriously other than to have an ax to grind.

Totally agreed. My gripe with all of these companies is that they aren't forthright and most consumers are ignorant to the practices. I don't have a problem with people knowingly exchanging their data and privacy for compensation via free products, services and discounts. I just wish companies disclosed it in a straight forward manner....."we're going to give you a 5% discount on cheerios, but we're going to collect, sell, and distribute information about you....and it's really personal stuff, like if you have a lactose issue, bowel problems, hemorrhoids, how big your willy is, how often you use it, if you (or your partner) require extra lubrication, if you have trouble sleeping, if you're an alcoholic, have high blood pressure or cholesterol, etc. etc." These are all things that are tracked and patterned through loyalty programs and credit cards. Somehow, I think the "loyalty" in the loyalty programs would be lower if consumers understood that's what they're tracking. I wrote an extensive post on disclosure on another thread essentially saying the same thing....burying it all in 100 pages of take-it-or-leave-it legalese isn't disclosure, it's concealment through inundatation. In my opinion, that's just not fair to the average consumer, it seems deceptive, and I think people genuinely have a right to know how their information is collected and used.

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[grimlok]

I personally would much rather go back to a "dumb phone" and a Franklin Covey planner before becoming a data mine for Microsoft, Apple, and Google. Google is the single greatest threat to privacy with the others not far behind. From selling data to corporations and governments. And no matter what Blackberry does, unless they build their own version of Android completely devoid of Google, then to me it will never be secure.

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[Ment]

I personally would much rather go back to a "dumb phone" and a Franklin Covey planner before becoming a data mine for Microsoft, Apple, and Google. Google is the single greatest threat to privacy with the others not far behind. From selling data to corporations and governments. And no matter what Blackberry does, unless they build their own version of Android completely devoid of Google, then to me it will never be secure.

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After you insulate yourself from Google, please investigate your MVNO StraightTalk. If you don't know what their privacy policies are then you're one of the 'harpers'. Betting you didn't even check them out before signing up as ATT is one of the worst on privacy. I'm not trying to make this personal but its reflective of the debate. People hone in on one aspect, in this case Google, and let everything else fly by.

[JSmith422]

After you insulate yourself from Google, please investigate your MVNO StraightTalk. If you don't know what their privacy policies are then you're one of the 'harpers'. Betting you didn't even check them out before signing up as ATT is one of the worst on privacy. I'm not trying to make this personal but its reflective of the debate. People hone in on one aspect, in this case Google, and let everything else fly by.

Ment, if ATT is one of the worst, who do you feel is the best?

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[JSmith422]

I personally would much rather go back to a "dumb phone" and a Franklin Covey planner before becoming a data mine for Microsoft, Apple, and Google. Google is the single greatest threat to privacy with the others not far behind. From selling data to corporations and governments. And no matter what Blackberry does, unless they build their own version of Android completely devoid of Google, then to me it will never be secure.

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I loved my old school flip phones.....I miss those days.

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[JSmith422]

Can you have that many tabs open on your BB10 phone? Or on Android? My BB10 browser crashes regularly and seems to crash more frequently the more tabs I have open.

On my Z30 I get 150 easily; it starts getting a little sketchy around 175 if a bunch of them are resource heavy (graphics, video, very large, etc.) but I do see 200+ on a regular basis....especially if I close the resource heavy ones.

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[Ment]

Ment, if ATT is one of the worst, who do you feel is the best?

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Sadly in the US probably Sprint, then Tmobile. ATT used to have a NSA installed super-router before it was found out and scuttled and they still have a building in NYC housing one of the major ATT data trunks sharing building space with the NSA. ATT says there is no mass data collection there. Verizon has the supertrackers and bought into the ad business a few years ago.

[markmall]

I'm less worried about NSA and the US government than organized crime, ID thieves or extortionists (in not too distant future).

Also, even if the credit card companies sell info on what we purchase, this is not as bad as what we are searching which can reflect our most private thoughts/fears/aspirations.

Imagine searching "herpes treatments" in 2017 and someone extorting you in 2027 because they got a hold of your search data.

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[svein99]

App tracking is a privacy concern, but probably taking 2nd place to the OS. Both my Mac and iPad are being frequently updated with "improvements" mixed in with security updates. Mostly these updates include more intrusive tracking like Apples Siri and cloud integration. After each update I have to go through every setting menu to turn off unwanted options. Apple wants nothing less that tie you into their universe (phone, watch, fitness, cloud, tablet, computer, IOT, email, text, talk, etc etc. Competition follows. It's better to spread things around - like MS email on Android or Apple etc.

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