BES update for BB10 support
I read somewhere that BES needs to be updated to support BB10. I also read that once done, previous OS's (OS6, OS7) will not be supported for email. Are these statements true?
Also, will this update be pushed out to all BES servers or do admins have to request it?
The reason I ask is because I'm not sure my company would upgrade to support BB10, especially if that would require them to replace every device they currently have deployed. Doesn't sound right and I think I'm wrong or misunderstood because if it is true this would severley impede BB10's adoption in the corporate world especially in a down economy.
Please tell me I'm wrong!
- CrackBerry Addict
12-22-2012, 12:23 PM #2
- 797 Posts
- PM me
BES5 will stay as-is for existing devices. BES10 is the new name for Mobile Fusion, and it's based on multiple backends. You install BES10 as a new server, and it has the BB10/PlayBook device service, the universal device service (Android/iOS), and BES5 as its backends.Taylor Byrnes
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- 12-24-2012, 12:32 AM #4
This is my concern, too. I use BES as a one-man customer of a large Exchange hosting provider (one of the two or three largest). I spoke with a senior tech at RIM a few months ago and he said the time lag from when the first BB10 phones come out to when the Exchange hosting provider adopts and implements the new platform on their server will probably be a "very" long time -- as in could easily be the latter part of 2013, perhaps towards the end of the year. He actually suggested that my best option until that happens would be to, uh, stay with my current 9930 and OS7, since, until they adopt/implement it the only way to have the same features, performance and security I'm accustomed to with BES if I want to use a new BB10 phone will be to... uh... use ActiveSync... which, uh, means I can't have nearly the same performance and security I'm accustomed to. Real bummer if this is true.
- CrackBerry User
12-25-2012, 08:53 PM #5
- 32 Posts
Pls dont concern much about that, the new version of BES consist of three part, the first part is BlackBerry Device service which use to manage the new blackberry 10 devices, the second BES 5 which use to manage old bb devices, the last use to control all of the non-bb devices.
So, new versions of BES must support email pushing service for previous models.Just upgrade it !
- CrackBerry Genius of Geniuses
12-26-2012, 10:37 AM #6
- 5,017 Posts
As for threads about wireless carriers paying a mythical "BIS/BES tax" those carriers pay only a small portion of the BIS/BES data plans fee to RIM in exchange for data compression that saves the carriers considerable bandwidth compared to competitors products and data plans. For example, Rogers Communications accesses a monthly "Government Regulatory and Recovery Fee" along with a monthly "System Access Fee" along with a per device "Activation Fee." All these fees are taxes imposed by the wireless carriers upon their subscribers and they do so with a smile on Ted Rogers' lips as he penetrates their subscribers every day. The wireless carriers should be on their knees licking the balls of Mike and Jim for the data compression afforded by BIS/BES.
- 12-26-2012, 11:15 AM #7
It seems to be beyond debate that in a situation like mine where I'm a small company/user that does not have its own BES server implementation but rather uses the services of a major Exchange hosting company, it's pretty cut-and-dried that until they fully adopt and implement the BB10 server platform I'm SOL and the only two choices will be to stay with my old phone on the old platform or get a new BB10 phone and use ActiveSync. And all indications so far are that we're looking at a considerably long time. As I said, it seems it could very well be as long as a year from now, if not even longer.
- CrackBerry Master
12-26-2012, 11:20 PM #8
- 1,321 Posts
I am in the same boat. I talked with our IT guys and they told me they would wait 6 months after launch before making any decisions to go with BES10 and BB10 phones. My plan is to bring my own BB10 to work and use activesync for my work email and calendar (tried on my PB and it worked, the calendar is super slow though because it won't display anything until it talks with the server, even when all events are stored locally and nothing is changed. Someone from dev alpha sub forum told me that RIM has fixed this bug in BB10 by displaying the local events on calendar directly and update changes after it connects with exchange server. This makes it looking much faster).
- 12-27-2012, 12:53 AM #9
A few months ago, and about a month after that, I happened to be in conversations with senior-level techs at RIM on two separate tech-support cases (in one case a "very" senior-level tech). In both cases I took the opportunity to ask their predictions and opinions about all this, and in both cases they said they expect adoption/implementation by the larger Exchange hosting providers (and others?) will take a substantially long time, and that anyone who has come to rely on the tight performance of BES is simply not going to be happy with ActiveSync -- and that I should just stay with my old phone and wait it out.
- 12-27-2012, 03:44 PM #10
I am not worried about this. BES10 is more like an MDM service, you will use ActiveSync to connect your BB10 device to Exchange, this is the only way RIM can give you Exchange access while allowing you to connect your iPhone and Android devices to BES10.
- 12-27-2012, 03:54 PM #11
Last edited by classact; 12-27-2012 at 04:41 PM.
I'm actually surprised that this hasn't been made more of a big issue here on CB. I mean, if BES10 adoption will take so long for companies to implement (like the six months mentioned in a previous post), that could impact BB10's success significantly. Yet, everyone is seeing it through rose-colored glasses and seems to be missing this point.
- 12-27-2012, 06:22 PM #14
Actually I have installed Fusion Mobile or Mobile Fusion already. It does not interact with Exchange through MAPI at all. It's really only a mobile device management system to lock down your devices, when it comes to email you need to be using ActiveSync. RIM is promising that you will be able to connect to two different BES 10 networks, well the only way to technically do this is through ActiveSync, like you can currently do on other devices including Playbook and I am going say even the BB10.
- 12-27-2012, 06:34 PM #15
People need to chill a little.
The truth is, with BB10 a lot of shops won't even need to run BES anymore. If you're an Exchange shop with, say, up to 150 users, I'm not even sure why you'd bother. If ActiveSync is turned on you'll have access to your e-mail, contacts, calendar and tasks anyway.
Bigger enterprise with an MDM requirement? Different story. If I recall from the brouhaha over the summer, BES10 is going to basically integrate Fusion with MDM and "old-school" BES. THIS will be the product that offers Balance. If it's a larger company and/or one with heavier security requirements than ActiveSync will allow (not sure if AS is FIPS compliant, for instance), then there will be a need to upgrade for sure.
- 12-28-2012, 01:11 AM #16
What am I missing here?
- CrackBerry Master
12-28-2012, 01:29 AM #17
- 1,321 Posts
I don't understand why people keep saying that active sync is slower than BES. When I receives an email on my blackberry phone, my playbook gets it too in +/-1 second.
- 12-28-2012, 01:35 AM #18
Okay, here's another benefit of BES "the way I understand it": total redundancy for secure archiving of all emails etc. A crash with ActiveSync could mean a massive loss of data, but not so with BES. That's separate from the superior speed, which I can only judge based on what RIM techs and my Exchange hosting techs keep telling me.
I'm still open to learning, but I'm so far not at all seeing anything I feel I can rely on that would cause me to decide that all the techs I speak with at RIM and at my Exchange hosting company are all wrong.
- CrackBerry User
12-28-2012, 11:05 AM #19
- 48 Posts
This whole discussion has me concerned as well about BB10's deployment in the enterprise environment, but if companies are like mine they aren't in a rush to deploy new tech especially when there's no big demand for it. That's probably why RIM is focusing on getting the handhelds themselves as polished as possible right now and hopefully getting a strong marketing message to stimulate sales. Once devices are out there the demand for BES10 will increase (similar to the push that caused companies to allow iOS support).
Classact I too want a BB10 device close to launch but my company won't be supporting it anytime soon (we just finished our BB7 deployment, and the majority of new handheld setup requests are now for iOS). I hooked up my PlayBook to Exchange and was not at all happy with the performance, so I'm in the same boat as you. Most likely will have to stick with my 9930 for a while. Good thing that phone is a champ!
- CrackBerry Abuser
12-28-2012, 11:25 AM #20
- 314 Posts
I spent some time talking with our IT department about this. RIM has been giving them the latest drops of BES10 (which is really just Fusion). As others have said, it will run alongside BES7 and be managed by the same console. It really does require a separate PHYSICAL server which may result in some time lag before IT departments roll it out. Ours is doing a limited pilot (just like they are doing with the PlayBook on BES). Both the PlayBook and BB10 run using ActiveSync vs native BES. RIM is eventually going all in on ActiveSync. That said, their MDM platform is second to none for managing BB's, iPhones and Androids. As I've been on the BES PlayBook pilot for a while now, I've not noticed ANY issues with speed or updating with my PlayBook compared to my BB6 Torch. - and we're on Lotus Notes! They both ding within +/- a second of each other when new mail comes in. Perhaps that will change when loaded up with thousands of users but for now, as a user, I really don't care. The email client on the PlayBook is quite good with Fusion and I've not noticed any real losses compared to BB6/Torch.
I do think that SOME IT departments will lag behind but if you can connect using ActiveSync you won't notice it beyond the fact that IT departments won't be able to set policies or remotely wipe your new BB. I'm concerned because we have to buy our devices through Bell using the corporate plan and experience tells me that it'll be a month of Sundays before BB10 is available on that - especially if the IT department doesn't officially bless BB10 until 1-2 quarters after GA.
- 12-28-2012, 12:05 PM #21
I would be nice to see RIM come out with support for their 7.x devices on BES10 to help migrate the old BES users. This would force a lot of IT shops to either upgrade peoples devices to 7.x or replace them with new devices. It ends up being a win-win situation for RIM.
- 12-28-2012, 12:20 PM #22
The main reason to stay with BES will be for device management (MDM). BES/Fusion allows for MUCH finer control of the security on the device, and yes, theoretically will be more secure overall. ActiveSync does allow for some remote wipe capabilities, but BES can wipe the entire device (just as an example). Some companies have security requirements that just can't be met by ActiveSync in its current form.
Past that, some enterprises have proprietary apps or required apps that need to run on either their own hardware or some kind of sandbox on an employee-owned device. My work BB can browse my company's intranet, for instance; ActiveSync wouldn't allow that.
Where it starts getting REALLY cool is Balance. Balance provides a sandbox that essentially DOES belong to my employer, but it can be removed if I leave the company. Fusion will do this with iOS and Android devices as well, now, but from the looks of it the experience will be much nicer on a BB10.
Bottom line: RIM still owns the enterprise market, and is in an excellent position to take the MDM market in general. Fusion doesn't require BlackBerry phones necessarily, but users will have the best experience with a BB10 device. I think this is RIM's strategy going forward.
- 12-28-2012, 12:23 PM #23
- 12-29-2012, 10:15 AM #24
Re: BES update for BB10 support
According to RIM, the BES10 released on January 30, will not support BBOS devices and you need two servers. But also according to RIM, an update for BES10 that will be available in May will allow both to be supported on a single BES10 server. Why they didn't make this available from the get go is unknown and a dumb decision IMHO that will delay BB10 uptake in BES shops.
- 12-29-2012, 11:41 AM #25
Whatever they do or don't "release" in May (or at any other date) for supporting "enterprise-level" usage, the lag time between that "release" date and the time the IT departments and, as in my case, the Exchange hosting companies, adopt, integrate, troubleshoot, and finally launch that new system will be a substantial time period. It's not the same as "releasing" a phone at the carrier and the next day you can buy it and use it, or like releasing a new feature that you just call the carrier and tell them to add to your service. We're talking enterprise-level systems here, and the "enterprise" has to first get their hands on the new system, take it out of the box, read the instruction manual, figure out how to use it, install it, make sure it's working reliably, and "then" the end-users can start to have access to it.
Minimum of months in a best-case scenario.
And I have no idea what that is that's supposed to be launched in January or in May. As far as I know, from – again – repeated talks with senior techs at RIM in Waterloo, none of what is being released January 30th supports “enterprise-level” usage like we’re used to with BES. You’ll have a BB10 phone and can use ActiveSync. And if what they release in May just makes the January 30th release work side-by-side on a BES server, that still may not mean any of that supports the "new" BES10 to work with the new BB10 phones.
This may be awhile, folks. RIM has been diligently working on an entirely new platform based on QNX for a few years now, and I'm expecting wonderful things to come from it. But it will not all get released early in 2013. That's just not gonna happen. It's not possible. They're making really cool new things at a foundational level and will, I hope and expect, again command a substantial part of the business-user community for years to come as a result (not a dominant portion, but certainly substantial). But for now, January 30th is to release the new "phone" and basic user interface. The reason they're going with the full-screen version first is to cater to the general user community that is not hard-core business -- the general iPhone and Android users. That doesn't require the same level of intense enterprise-level sophistication BlackBerry is really about. Yes, the sophisticated level of enterprise-usage systems is coming, but it won't be there when BB10 first gets released. This will take time.
Last edited by classact; 12-29-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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