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  1. dynot's Avatar
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    Default BES update for BB10 support

    I read somewhere that BES needs to be updated to support BB10. I also read that once done, previous OS's (OS6, OS7) will not be supported for email. Are these statements true?

    Also, will this update be pushed out to all BES servers or do admins have to request it?

    The reason I ask is because I'm not sure my company would upgrade to support BB10, especially if that would require them to replace every device they currently have deployed. Doesn't sound right and I think I'm wrong or misunderstood because if it is true this would severley impede BB10's adoption in the corporate world especially in a down economy.

    Please tell me I'm wrong!
  2. taylortbb's Avatar
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    BES5 will stay as-is for existing devices. BES10 is the new name for Mobile Fusion, and it's based on multiple backends. You install BES10 as a new server, and it has the BB10/PlayBook device service, the universal device service (Android/iOS), and BES5 as its backends.
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  3. dynot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taylortbb View Post
    BES5 will stay as-is for existing devices. BES10 is the new name for Mobile Fusion, and it's based on multiple backends. You install BES10 as a new server, and it has the BB10/PlayBook device service, the universal device service (Android/iOS), and BES5 as its backends.
    So this means if our IT elects not to install it I'm SOL. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. How many businesses out there will invest in a platform that may be perceived as dying. Not that I think it is, but I think that this is just another obstacle in BB10's path to success.
  4. classact's Avatar
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    This is my concern, too. I use BES as a one-man customer of a large Exchange hosting provider (one of the two or three largest). I spoke with a senior tech at RIM a few months ago and he said the time lag from when the first BB10 phones come out to when the Exchange hosting provider adopts and implements the new platform on their server will probably be a "very" long time -- as in could easily be the latter part of 2013, perhaps towards the end of the year. He actually suggested that my best option until that happens would be to, uh, stay with my current 9930 and OS7, since, until they adopt/implement it the only way to have the same features, performance and security I'm accustomed to with BES if I want to use a new BB10 phone will be to... uh... use ActiveSync... which, uh, means I can't have nearly the same performance and security I'm accustomed to. Real bummer if this is true.
    W Bernie Ting likes this.
  5. Blackberrychen's Avatar
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    Pls dont concern much about that, the new version of BES consist of three part, the first part is BlackBerry Device service which use to manage the new blackberry 10 devices, the second BES 5 which use to manage old bb devices, the last use to control all of the non-bb devices.

    So, new versions of BES must support email pushing service for previous models.Just upgrade it !
  6. kill_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberrychen View Post
    Pls dont concern much about that, the new version of BES consist of three part, the first part is BlackBerry Device service which use to manage the new blackberry 10 devices, the second BES 5 which use to manage old bb devices, the last use to control all of the non-bb devices.

    So, new versions of BES must support email pushing service for previous models.Just upgrade it !
    You cannot just upgrade from BlackBerry Enterprise Server 5 to BlackBerry Enterprise Server 10 as though you are applying a maintenance release. There needs to be a separate installation of BlackBerry Enterprise Server on separate hardware or virtual machine container and then depending which back-end components you require there are additional steps to configure the environment. I doubt sufficient testing has been undertaken by Research In Motion to account for every potential issue their clients might encounter in varying circumstances. Additionally, the licensing and support models are changing including the elimination of a BlackBerry Enterprise Server Express version for BlackBerry 10 devices. If BlackBerry Enterprise Server 4 is any indication (production use has continued well beyond the release of version 5 and it remains in use for some organizations), clients will continue using whatever is already installed until there is a compelling reason to get the "latest and greatest." Thorsten has muddied the waters with his vague statements about Microsoft ActiveSync, BIS, and BES requirements in a BlackBerry 10 world.

    As for threads about wireless carriers paying a mythical "BIS/BES tax" those carriers pay only a small portion of the BIS/BES data plans fee to RIM in exchange for data compression that saves the carriers considerable bandwidth compared to competitors products and data plans. For example, Rogers Communications accesses a monthly "Government Regulatory and Recovery Fee" along with a monthly "System Access Fee" along with a per device "Activation Fee." All these fees are taxes imposed by the wireless carriers upon their subscribers and they do so with a smile on Ted Rogers' lips as he penetrates their subscribers every day. The wireless carriers should be on their knees licking the balls of Mike and Jim for the data compression afforded by BIS/BES.
  7. classact's Avatar
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    It seems to be beyond debate that in a situation like mine where I'm a small company/user that does not have its own BES server implementation but rather uses the services of a major Exchange hosting company, it's pretty cut-and-dried that until they fully adopt and implement the BB10 server platform I'm SOL and the only two choices will be to stay with my old phone on the old platform or get a new BB10 phone and use ActiveSync. And all indications so far are that we're looking at a considerably long time. As I said, it seems it could very well be as long as a year from now, if not even longer.
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  8. aha
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    I am in the same boat. I talked with our IT guys and they told me they would wait 6 months after launch before making any decisions to go with BES10 and BB10 phones. My plan is to bring my own BB10 to work and use activesync for my work email and calendar (tried on my PB and it worked, the calendar is super slow though because it won't display anything until it talks with the server, even when all events are stored locally and nothing is changed. Someone from dev alpha sub forum told me that RIM has fixed this bug in BB10 by displaying the local events on calendar directly and update changes after it connects with exchange server. This makes it looking much faster).
  9. classact's Avatar
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    A few months ago, and about a month after that, I happened to be in conversations with senior-level techs at RIM on two separate tech-support cases (in one case a "very" senior-level tech). In both cases I took the opportunity to ask their predictions and opinions about all this, and in both cases they said they expect adoption/implementation by the larger Exchange hosting providers (and others?) will take a substantially long time, and that anyone who has come to rely on the tight performance of BES is simply not going to be happy with ActiveSync -- and that I should just stay with my old phone and wait it out.
  10. smoothrunnings's Avatar
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    I am not worried about this. BES10 is more like an MDM service, you will use ActiveSync to connect your BB10 device to Exchange, this is the only way RIM can give you Exchange access while allowing you to connect your iPhone and Android devices to BES10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothrunnings View Post
    I am not worried about this. BES10 is more like an MDM service, you will use ActiveSync to connect your BB10 device to Exchange, this is the only way RIM can give you Exchange access while allowing you to connect your iPhone and Android devices to BES10.
    I'm certain this is not correct. While ActiveSync may be the only way iPhone and Android users can sync to the BB system, I assure you -- and anyone else reading this -- that of course when the new platform is fully implemented users of BB10 phones will not need (or want) to be using ActiveSync. For goodness sake. The idea is ludicrous. BES10 (or whatever they call it) will be infinitely superior to using ActiveSync, just as BES with a BB phone today is infinitely superior to ActiveSync today.
    Last edited by classact; 12-27-2012 at 04:41 PM.
  12. dynot's Avatar
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    I'm actually surprised that this hasn't been made more of a big issue here on CB. I mean, if BES10 adoption will take so long for companies to implement (like the six months mentioned in a previous post), that could impact BB10's success significantly. Yet, everyone is seeing it through rose-colored glasses and seems to be missing this point.
  13. dynot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aha View Post
    ...My plan is to bring my own BB10 to work and use activesync for my work email and calendar (tried on my PB and it worked,
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothrunnings View Post
    ... you will use ActiveSync to connect your BB10 device to Exchange,
    How would I use ActiveSync to connect to my work email? My employer currently allows other devices to connec to email (I've only seen iPhones) so does this mean I should be able to with BB10?
  14. smoothrunnings's Avatar
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    Actually I have installed Fusion Mobile or Mobile Fusion already. It does not interact with Exchange through MAPI at all. It's really only a mobile device management system to lock down your devices, when it comes to email you need to be using ActiveSync. RIM is promising that you will be able to connect to two different BES 10 networks, well the only way to technically do this is through ActiveSync, like you can currently do on other devices including Playbook and I am going say even the BB10.
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    People need to chill a little.

    The truth is, with BB10 a lot of shops won't even need to run BES anymore. If you're an Exchange shop with, say, up to 150 users, I'm not even sure why you'd bother. If ActiveSync is turned on you'll have access to your e-mail, contacts, calendar and tasks anyway.

    Bigger enterprise with an MDM requirement? Different story. If I recall from the brouhaha over the summer, BES10 is going to basically integrate Fusion with MDM and "old-school" BES. THIS will be the product that offers Balance. If it's a larger company and/or one with heavier security requirements than ActiveSync will allow (not sure if AS is FIPS compliant, for instance), then there will be a need to upgrade for sure.
  16. classact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    People need to chill a little.

    The truth is, with BB10 a lot of shops won't even need to run BES anymore. If you're an Exchange shop with, say, up to 150 users, I'm not even sure why you'd bother. If ActiveSync is turned on you'll have access to your e-mail, contacts, calendar and tasks anyway.

    Bigger enterprise with an MDM requirement? Different story. If I recall from the brouhaha over the summer, BES10 is going to basically integrate Fusion with MDM and "old-school" BES. THIS will be the product that offers Balance. If it's a larger company and/or one with heavier security requirements than ActiveSync will allow (not sure if AS is FIPS compliant, for instance), then there will be a need to upgrade for sure.
    Okay, now I'm very confused. Why are the very senior RIM techs who I have spoken with themselves telling me ActiveSync with a BB10 phone won't hold a candle to what BES currently does with BB phones, and that we will have to wait for the BB10 version of BES (whatever it's called) for the same performance we get now? Yes, with ActiveSync you can "access" your email, contacts, calendar and tasks, but the "speed" is not even close (let alone security). "Instant" doesn't even remotely exist with ActiveSync, while it's the standard with BES. For instance, most of the time I get my emails on my phone "before" they even hit my Outlook Inbox on my desktop. (This is one of the key reasons I use a BB phone -- with BES -- and won't even take a second look at an iPhone or Android.)

    What am I missing here?
  17. aha
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    I don't understand why people keep saying that active sync is slower than BES. When I receives an email on my blackberry phone, my playbook gets it too in +/-1 second.
  18. classact's Avatar
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    Okay, here's another benefit of BES "the way I understand it": total redundancy for secure archiving of all emails etc. A crash with ActiveSync could mean a massive loss of data, but not so with BES. That's separate from the superior speed, which I can only judge based on what RIM techs and my Exchange hosting techs keep telling me.

    I'm still open to learning, but I'm so far not at all seeing anything I feel I can rely on that would cause me to decide that all the techs I speak with at RIM and at my Exchange hosting company are all wrong.
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    This whole discussion has me concerned as well about BB10's deployment in the enterprise environment, but if companies are like mine they aren't in a rush to deploy new tech especially when there's no big demand for it. That's probably why RIM is focusing on getting the handhelds themselves as polished as possible right now and hopefully getting a strong marketing message to stimulate sales. Once devices are out there the demand for BES10 will increase (similar to the push that caused companies to allow iOS support).

    Classact I too want a BB10 device close to launch but my company won't be supporting it anytime soon (we just finished our BB7 deployment, and the majority of new handheld setup requests are now for iOS). I hooked up my PlayBook to Exchange and was not at all happy with the performance, so I'm in the same boat as you. Most likely will have to stick with my 9930 for a while. Good thing that phone is a champ!
  20. mapsonburt's Avatar
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    I spent some time talking with our IT department about this. RIM has been giving them the latest drops of BES10 (which is really just Fusion). As others have said, it will run alongside BES7 and be managed by the same console. It really does require a separate PHYSICAL server which may result in some time lag before IT departments roll it out. Ours is doing a limited pilot (just like they are doing with the PlayBook on BES). Both the PlayBook and BB10 run using ActiveSync vs native BES. RIM is eventually going all in on ActiveSync. That said, their MDM platform is second to none for managing BB's, iPhones and Androids. As I've been on the BES PlayBook pilot for a while now, I've not noticed ANY issues with speed or updating with my PlayBook compared to my BB6 Torch. - and we're on Lotus Notes! They both ding within +/- a second of each other when new mail comes in. Perhaps that will change when loaded up with thousands of users but for now, as a user, I really don't care. The email client on the PlayBook is quite good with Fusion and I've not noticed any real losses compared to BB6/Torch.

    I do think that SOME IT departments will lag behind but if you can connect using ActiveSync you won't notice it beyond the fact that IT departments won't be able to set policies or remotely wipe your new BB. I'm concerned because we have to buy our devices through Bell using the corporate plan and experience tells me that it'll be a month of Sundays before BB10 is available on that - especially if the IT department doesn't officially bless BB10 until 1-2 quarters after GA.
  21. smoothrunnings's Avatar
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    I would be nice to see RIM come out with support for their 7.x devices on BES10 to help migrate the old BES users. This would force a lot of IT shops to either upgrade peoples devices to 7.x or replace them with new devices. It ends up being a win-win situation for RIM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by classact View Post
    Okay, now I'm very confused. Why are the very senior RIM techs who I have spoken with themselves telling me ActiveSync with a BB10 phone won't hold a candle to what BES currently does with BB phones, and that we will have to wait for the BB10 version of BES (whatever it's called) for the same performance we get now? Yes, with ActiveSync you can "access" your email, contacts, calendar and tasks, but the "speed" is not even close (let alone security). "Instant" doesn't even remotely exist with ActiveSync, while it's the standard with BES. For instance, most of the time I get my emails on my phone "before" they even hit my Outlook Inbox on my desktop. (This is one of the key reasons I use a BB phone -- with BES -- and won't even take a second look at an iPhone or Android.)

    What am I missing here?
    I doubt that speed will really be much of an issue.

    The main reason to stay with BES will be for device management (MDM). BES/Fusion allows for MUCH finer control of the security on the device, and yes, theoretically will be more secure overall. ActiveSync does allow for some remote wipe capabilities, but BES can wipe the entire device (just as an example). Some companies have security requirements that just can't be met by ActiveSync in its current form.

    Past that, some enterprises have proprietary apps or required apps that need to run on either their own hardware or some kind of sandbox on an employee-owned device. My work BB can browse my company's intranet, for instance; ActiveSync wouldn't allow that.

    Where it starts getting REALLY cool is Balance. Balance provides a sandbox that essentially DOES belong to my employer, but it can be removed if I leave the company. Fusion will do this with iOS and Android devices as well, now, but from the looks of it the experience will be much nicer on a BB10.

    Bottom line: RIM still owns the enterprise market, and is in an excellent position to take the MDM market in general. Fusion doesn't require BlackBerry phones necessarily, but users will have the best experience with a BB10 device. I think this is RIM's strategy going forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothrunnings View Post
    I would be nice to see RIM come out with support for their 7.x devices on BES10 to help migrate the old BES users. This would force a lot of IT shops to either upgrade peoples devices to 7.x or replace them with new devices. It ends up being a win-win situation for RIM.
    BES10 will support current devices. I'll admit I'm not completely clear on how that will work, but my understanding right now is that BES5 will run either alongside BES10 and integrate with it, or will run as a subsystem. And that includes Balance.
  24. lnichols's Avatar
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    Default Re: BES update for BB10 support

    According to RIM, the BES10 released on January 30, will not support BBOS devices and you need two servers. But also according to RIM, an update for BES10 that will be available in May will allow both to be supported on a single BES10 server. Why they didn't make this available from the get go is unknown and a dumb decision IMHO that will delay BB10 uptake in BES shops.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    According to RIM, the BES10 released on January 30, will not support BBOS devices and you need two servers. But also according to RIM, an update for BES10 that will be available in May will allow both to be supported on a single BES10 server. Why they didn't make this available from the get go is unknown and a dumb decision IMHO that will delay BB10 uptake in BES shops.
    Is there a “BES10 release” being planned for January 30th? Are you sure you don’t mean just the new BB10 phones with basic support? I don’t think there will be BES at that time. Remember, BES means BB Enterprise Service.

    Whatever they do or don't "release" in May (or at any other date) for supporting "enterprise-level" usage, the lag time between that "release" date and the time the IT departments and, as in my case, the Exchange hosting companies, adopt, integrate, troubleshoot, and finally launch that new system will be a substantial time period. It's not the same as "releasing" a phone at the carrier and the next day you can buy it and use it, or like releasing a new feature that you just call the carrier and tell them to add to your service. We're talking enterprise-level systems here, and the "enterprise" has to first get their hands on the new system, take it out of the box, read the instruction manual, figure out how to use it, install it, make sure it's working reliably, and "then" the end-users can start to have access to it.

    Minimum of months in a best-case scenario.

    And I have no idea what that is that's supposed to be launched in January or in May. As far as I know, from – again – repeated talks with senior techs at RIM in Waterloo, none of what is being released January 30th supports “enterprise-level” usage like we’re used to with BES. You’ll have a BB10 phone and can use ActiveSync. And if what they release in May just makes the January 30th release work side-by-side on a BES server, that still may not mean any of that supports the "new" BES10 to work with the new BB10 phones.

    This may be awhile, folks. RIM has been diligently working on an entirely new platform based on QNX for a few years now, and I'm expecting wonderful things to come from it. But it will not all get released early in 2013. That's just not gonna happen. It's not possible. They're making really cool new things at a foundational level and will, I hope and expect, again command a substantial part of the business-user community for years to come as a result (not a dominant portion, but certainly substantial). But for now, January 30th is to release the new "phone" and basic user interface. The reason they're going with the full-screen version first is to cater to the general user community that is not hard-core business -- the general iPhone and Android users. That doesn't require the same level of intense enterprise-level sophistication BlackBerry is really about. Yes, the sophisticated level of enterprise-usage systems is coming, but it won't be there when BB10 first gets released. This will take time.
    Last edited by classact; 12-29-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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