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  1. terrycotant's Avatar
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    Exclamation BB10 for Croproate users - not a sure thing

    So, like many current BB users (I have a 9700 that's been on life support - had it about a hear too long), I've been eagerly awaiting the eventual release here in the states, especially by T-mo. I have to admit, I've been on the fence over the past 6 months, looking at the Nexus 4 and other 'droids. When I saw the BB10 announcement, I figured I'd give them one more shot, since I'm a corporate user, multitasking and security are very important to me, and I'd generally like to see them succeed.

    However, after talking to many corp IT folks who are responsible for setting up the BES servers, etc. - I started to worry a bit. Even though the licenses of BES may not be an issue from what I've seen in press releases, setting up new servers for BES10 certainly is. In addition, since the BES10 BYOD / admin is so late to the game for administering iphone / droid / Windows phone, chances are most companies have already implemented things like Mobile Iron or some other solution. From what I've read online, MI doesn't yet have BB10 on their roadmap, so that would mean 2 systems to set up / manage.

    For this, and many other reasons, talking to my friends around town, I hear most corporations are in an continuous "wait and see" mode for demand on BES. What that means is that it's likely to be a catch-22 for users... You want the BB10 for corporate email, calendars, etc. and all of the great things we've gotten used to that make BB what it is (plus the new features), but until companies jump on board and build out the new BES 10 servers and fire them up, you may actually be "worse off" than iphone / droid users for corporate access. The catch 22 is that companies will wait for demand from their employees before implementing, but they may well not ever get the demand if the potential BB users never get the features turned on that they need to succeed...

    Has anyone else asked around to see what their company will do?
    Last edited by terrycotant; 02-27-2013 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Typo in subject line
  2. pabs77's Avatar
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    Hey there I know all too well what you are talking about. My company has been slowly phasing out BES as the user base dropped off over the last few years. At this stage they are pretty much decomissioning the remaining BES that we have to cut down on costs. Most of the BB users are being told to get iPhone or Android because they are easier to manage according to our IT department and don't require a server to connect to email, we just use Active Sync. I went out on a limb and picked up to the Z10 thinking that it would have no issues connecting into Active Sync I have since learned that BB10 lacks one critical capability making it impossible for it to connect to our corporate mail. If you are at all interested in my specific issue there is a whole thread on it http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...e-email-769439

    As it stands now BB10 is a serious disadvanatge when it comes to organizations that don't have plans to deploy new BES10 servers.
  3. r0v3rT3N's Avatar
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    Check out my app: CChecker
  4. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Actually, you kind of have it backward. If a company implements BES10 they don't actually NEED Mobile Iron, Good, or any other MDM platform, since iOS and Android devices can be administered from BES10 as well.





    "Max Power doesn't 'cuddle'! You strap yourself in and feel the Gs!"
    jstirtzinger and r0v3rT3N like this.
  5. jstirtzinger's Avatar
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    "Easier to manage" = hands-off no management happening

    Not sure the whole BYOD issue is that solved as you infer and from what I see is a bit of a time bomb waiting to happen. There will be a pendulum swing back from the past 2 yrs where IT departments got beat up pretty bad with the onslaught of "I wanna connect this device and this device so don't be a bureaucrat!" But BES10 is a very robust multi-OS mgmt tool, plus MI has aleady stated they will support BB10 so I think you will see a reversal of "ActiveSync is good enough for us." There is MUCH more to securing a device than email policies. Look at all the heartache iOS6 has caused Exchange/Activesync admins the past month. This battle is not over, not by a long shot.

    http://ca.blackberry.com/business/software/bes-10.html
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    Last edited by jstirtzinger; 02-27-2013 at 03:41 PM. Reason: Added links
  6. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by pabs77 View Post
    Hey there I know all too well what you are talking about. My company has been slowly phasing out BES as the user base dropped off over the last few years. At this stage they are pretty much decomissioning the remaining BES that we have to cut down on costs. Most of the BB users are being told to get iPhone or Android because they are easier to manage according to our IT department and don't require a server to connect to email, we just use Active Sync. I went out on a limb and picked up to the Z10 thinking that it would have no issues connecting into Active Sync I have since learned that BB10 lacks one critical capability making it impossible for it to connect to our corporate mail. If you are at all interested in my specific issue there is a whole thread on it http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...e-email-769439

    As it stands now BB10 is a serious disadvanatge when it comes to organizations that don't have plans to deploy new BES10 servers.
    I went and looked at the thread concerning your issue. You understand that your situation isn't extremely common, right? Your employer is cheaping out and deciding to let users put their own devices on his network, but he can't be bothered with the effort or expense to manage them. What he may not get is that BES10 itself is free, and it's just a matter of buying a 1-time CAL for each user. BES10 can manage iOS and Android as well as BB10, too.

    Anyway, enough of the ad. BB just hasn't implemented cert import on the phones yet is all. It might be down on the list of priorities considering everything else they're doing right now. Might even be available as soon as the 10.1 update due in March.





    "Max Power doesn't 'cuddle'! You strap yourself in and feel the Gs!"
  7. notfanboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: BB10 for Croproate users - not a sure thing

    Crop rotate users? You mean farmers?
  8. pabs77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    I went and looked at the thread concerning your issue. You understand that your situation isn't extremely common, right? Your employer is cheaping out and deciding to let users put their own devices on his network, but he can't be bothered with the effort or expense to manage them. What he may not get is that BES10 itself is free, and it's just a matter of buying a 1-time CAL for each user. BES10 can manage iOS and Android as well as BB10, too.

    Anyway, enough of the ad. BB just hasn't implemented cert import on the phones yet is all. It might be down on the list of priorities considering everything else they're doing right now. Might even be available as soon as the 10.1 update due in March.
    I completely understand that my issue isn't common in fact perhaps very unique. And you don't have to sell me on the value of BES, when I worked at RIM in sales I sold many organizations on the value of BES. If only I could sell my current company on it, trying but not having success. That being said both iOS and Android work seamlessly at my organization and have capabilities for certificate imports during active sync account set up, it seems like something that should have been included in BB10.

    It just feels weird seeing having both a Z10 and Andorid device sitting on my desk and reaching for the Android because it integrates better with our corporate mail.

    I hope this feature comes with 10.1 but from what I have been told its not currently a feature listed on the roapmap.
  9. dbmalloy's Avatar
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    BB10 platform will not fit for every company... unsure why so many think customer base will remain static... if BBis losing corporate customers... it put the onous on them to improve the product in which case we all win... otherwise they will languish and be out of business eventually....
  10. pabs77's Avatar
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    I completely agree the fact that I am also having issues syncing with Gmail calendar and corporate email only adds to the problems. That being said everyone on CrackBerry and on these forums for the most part are loyal to BB and will live with lack of functionality or find workarounds. A typical corporate user who buys a Z10 will give up very quickly if things don't work and move to iPhone or Android. I have already seen a few colleagues who got there Z10 on opening day return them becuase of this same email issue.

    I love the phone maybe its becaues I the hardware is just sexy and better then most of the Android crap out there but the OS does have some gaps that need to be filled and hoepfully sooner then later.
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
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    Setting up a BES 10 (Blackberry Enterprise Services) is not the same as BES 5 (Blackberry Enterprise Server). We have had BES 10 (Mobile Fusion as it was once called) since the Beta. We now have the latest BES 10 in place and it works great for Balance and MDM management. The server is free and you pay $99 for each license which is a one time cost. You can manage BB10 devices (Playbooks and Z10), iOS and Android devices. We use ActiveSync to connect to Google Apps which works in conjunction with our BESX server. We compared the most popular MDM solution (AirWatch). Their solution is to install a client on each device and they don't support BB10 devices yet. BES10 requires a client on iOS and Anrdoid, but integrated into Playbook and Z10. It really is the best solution for IT.
    R Field likes this.
  12. GTiLeo's Avatar
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    whats easy to manage when iOS takes down your exchange server because of a bug
    southlander likes this.
  13. canderson85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Crop rotate users? You mean farmers?


    Posted via CB10
  14. DivideBYZero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenoser63 View Post
    Setting up a BES 10 (Blackberry Enterprise Services) is not the same as BES 5 (Blackberry Enterprise Server). We have had BES 10 (Mobile Fusion as it was once called) since the Beta. We now have the latest BES 10 in place and it works great for Balance and MDM management. The server is free and you pay $99 for each license which is a one time cost. You can manage BB10 devices (Playbooks and Z10), iOS and Android devices. We use ActiveSync to connect to Google Apps which works in conjunction with our BESX server. We compared the most popular MDM solution (AirWatch). Their solution is to install a client on each device and they don't support BB10 devices yet. BES10 requires a client on iOS and Anrdoid, but integrated into Playbook and Z10. It really is the best solution for IT.
    Airwatch will support BB10 in release 6.4.
    iPhone 5S, Space Black on O2 UK
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  15. DivideBYZero's Avatar
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    I work for a corporation that sells an MDM solution, yet, through simply asking for it, I got to be the first of many users to be provisioned on our BES10 pilot.


    Ask, just ask. The entire MDM movement has been powered by employees asking, so if you sit there and cry about iOS or Android support being stronger you only have yourself to blame. Ask them.
    iPhone 5S, Space Black on O2 UK
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    Plus a bunch of other pre-production devices, including the only RED Pearl Flip ever made.
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivideBYZero View Post
    Airwatch will support BB10 in release 6.4.
    Yes. But it will require a client installation. Something that can be removed by the user. I don't like client installs for MDM management. With BES10 and BB10 smartphones and Playbooks, it is all built in. I do have to install BES10 clients on iOS and Android, but why would I choose a solution that requires three clients when I only need two with BES10. Will that support also do Playbooks and implement Balance?

    We did a trial comparison between AirWatch and BES10. BES10 won. BDS and BB10/Playbook integration is a superior solution for business MDM management of BB devices. Nothing can come close.
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
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    That is rich.. You do know this information was from Good Technology (a MDM provider) which doesn't support Blackberry devices. I could write an article that states, with BES5, Blackberry devices have 100% market penetration. When people post stuff like this and don't take the time to check the source or understand the content, it makes them look foolish.
  18. njblackberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    I went and looked at the thread concerning your issue. You understand that your situation isn't extremely common, right? Your employer is cheaping out and deciding to let users put their own devices on his network, but he can't be bothered with the effort or expense to manage them. What he may not get is that BES10 itself is free, and it's just a matter of buying a 1-time CAL for each user. BES10 can manage iOS and Android as well as BB10, too.

    Anyway, enough of the ad. BB just hasn't implemented cert import on the phones yet is all. It might be down on the list of priorities considering everything else they're doing right now. Might even be available as soon as the 10.1 update due in March.
    I disagree with your conclusions here. Many other companies will choose not to implement BES 10. They already may have an established MDM (which will control BB10s eventually) and see no need for redundant systems. BlackBerrys MDM is still new. Like the new OS and new hardware. Why gamble on it. One less device to maintain (and if you have 20, 30, xxx BES, it is a maintenance issue). One BES is easy. Dozens is more difficult - especially when management long ago traded in their BlackBerrys.
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    I disagree with your conclusions here. Many other companies will choose not to implement BES 10. They already may have an established MDM (which will control BB10s eventually) and see no need for redundant systems. BlackBerrys MDM is still new. Like the new OS and new hardware. Why gamble on it. One less device to maintain (and if you have 20, 30, xxx BES, it is a maintenance issue). One BES is easy. Dozens is more difficult - especially when management long ago traded in their BlackBerrys.
    Those other MDM solutions will try and control BB10s, but will have to install a client which most likely not have the same functionality of BES10. I doubt that they will be able to implement Balance, which is the best solution for business. Actually having BES10 implemented and controlling Z10 and Playbooks along with a couple iOS and Android devices, it is quick to see that any client based MDM solution is weak. The tight integration of BES10 (BDS) and BB10/Playbook really shines and any company using BB devices and which want to use MDM, they would be foolish not to use BES10. The current solution can be implemented along side old BES(s). We were able to install BES10 and not even touch our BES5, but able to manage BB10/Playbook/iOS/Android and Legacy BB devices from one console.
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    I disagree with your conclusions here. Many other companies will choose not to implement BES 10. They already may have an established MDM (which will control BB10s eventually) and see no need for redundant systems. BlackBerrys MDM is still new. Like the new OS and new hardware. Why gamble on it. One less device to maintain (and if you have 20, 30, xxx BES, it is a maintenance issue). One BES is easy. Dozens is more difficult - especially when management long ago traded in their BlackBerrys.
    Curious.. Do you manage any BES machines? Have you tried to implement BES10?
  21. pabs77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    I disagree with your conclusions here. Many other companies will choose not to implement BES 10. They already may have an established MDM (which will control BB10s eventually) and see no need for redundant systems. BlackBerrys MDM is still new. Like the new OS and new hardware. Why gamble on it. One less device to maintain (and if you have 20, 30, xxx BES, it is a maintenance issue). One BES is easy. Dozens is more difficult - especially when management long ago traded in their BlackBerrys.
    This isn't completely incorrect. Many companies deployed BES 5 and below to manage existing BBOS devices and needed another solution for iOS and Android so they went out and puchased the likes of Mobile Iron, Airwatch, and a host of other solutions. The MDM market is crowded everyone and their dog has an MDM solution you are even seeing Norton and McAfee get into this space. The problem is RIM went out and purchased Ubitex basically an unknown player outside of Germany and a few other parts of Europe. Although it had a solid foundation there were a lot of featuers it lacked against the competition. Perhaps BES10 has caught up but when I was still working for RIM we had a hard time going up against Mobile Iron because on the iOS and Android side we were weak.

    It does remain to be seen how successful BES10 will be, I have no doubt that in companies where RIM is still strong BES10 is a no brainer but the bulk of mid-market companies where security is perhaps not as important, where active sync is good enough or another solution is in place its a tougher sell. Almost a catch 22 because a company won't deploy BES10 unless the user base is demanding it but the users can't switch if BES10 isn't already deployed.
  22. njblackberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenoser63 View Post
    Curious.. Do you manage any BES machines? Have you tried to implement BES10?
    No, people several levels down manage dozens of BES globally.
    There is no DESIRE to implement BES10. Not on our roadmap. C levels won't even entertain using a BlackBerry, so why bother.
    We've had EAS in for many years now. No new BES.
  23. Bluenoser63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    No, people several levels down manage dozens of BES globally.
    There is no DESIRE to implement BES10. Not on our roadmap. C levels won't even entertain using a BlackBerry, so why bother.
    We've had EAS in for many years now. No new BES.
    OK. Your loss. If you have BB10/Playbooks, it is really the only MDM solution.
  24. njblackberry's Avatar
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    No loss to me. I have lots of phones to use that I like.
    There is one (1) Playbook connected via EAS. One. Mine. Not sure I would classify that as a loss.
    We are not going to be supporting BB10, so it is no loss to me. To BlackBerry, perhaps.
    I lost that battle.
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