[ubizmo]

Did the Sidekick support on-device purchasing or updates?

It certainly had on-device purchasing. I don't remember much about app updates. I want to say that it did have them, but I don't recall with any certainty. There was no possibility of sideloading on the SideKick or downloading from web sites. Everything--even ringtones--had to go through the on-device app store. It also had OTA OS updates pushed to the devices.

[n8ter#AC]

I think how long they took to get it out is going to hurt them. If it was coming out in 2-3 months I'd wait in line for one. I can't wait 6 months to upgrade my smartphone, though, so they aren't really giving me a choice. The next phone I get is the one I'm staying with becuase I'm tired losing money on app purchases moving from platform to platform.

I like what I see, but by the time it releases it will no longer be economically feasable for me to buy into their ecosystem because I'm not paying off-contract for their device and I'm not using a bare bones device with no paid apps I need until they release it.

Time is money, and they're losing a lot by taking so long to get their platform out. They should have done this instead of wasting time on the playbook, IMO.

[sam_b77]

I think how long they took to get it out is going to hurt them. If it was coming out in 2-3 months I'd wait in line for one. I can't wait 6 months to upgrade my smartphone, though, so they aren't really giving me a choice. The next phone I get is the one I'm staying with becuase I'm tired losing money on app purchases moving from platform to platform.

I like what I see, but by the time it releases it will no longer be economically feasable for me to buy into their ecosystem because I'm not paying off-contract for their device and I'm not using a bare bones device with no paid apps I need until they release it.

Time is money, and they're losing a lot by taking so long to get their platform out. They should have done this instead of wasting time on the playbook, IMO.

This has to be one of the major advantages or drawbacks of "ecosystems" depending on how one looks at it. If you are a Smartphone platform then you would like it as the user gets locked in, but from a user's point of view what N8ter says is bang on target. If I change platforms I have to buy a lot of the same apps. As an user this constrains choice as I can't freely move from platform to platform.

Maybe this is why Android is selling so well. People can move to a huge variety of hardware choices without abandoning their app purchases. Wit RIM or Apple one gets only what the company makes.

[menaknow]

This has to be one of the major advantages or drawbacks of "ecosystems" depending on how one looks at it. If you are a Smartphone platform then you would like it as the user gets locked in, but from a user's point of view what N8ter says is bang on target. If I change platforms I have to buy a lot of the same apps. As an user this constrains choice as I can't freely move from platform to platform.

Maybe this is why Android is selling so well. People can move to a huge variety of hardware choices without abandoning their app purchases. Wit RIM or Apple one gets only what the company makes.

Just to add to your thought, I learned first hand about the disadvantage of ecosystems. I had a Windows Mobile 6 device (which I loved because it worked well for me. It had Midomi, Shazam and other apps which I paid for and were really well used.

1 year later, Midomi dropped WM6

Soon after that, Microsoft released WP7... and shortly after WM6 was abandon.

Which is fine as a company has to move forward. But then they pretty much closed down the WM6 application store (called Marketplace).

And I had to repurchase those applications twice, once on iPhone then on blackberry.

[leftypepper716]

I have a Sprint Bold 9930, upgraded from a Curve 8330 and a few of my paid apps wasn't able to transfer from OS5 to OS7, and that's within the same OS. Imagine an entirely new OS, I bet 40-50% of my current apps will not be avaible on the new OS10. RIM is hoping to have 100k apps ready for the OS10. Still over 400K behind the iphone. If this device doesn't have native e-mail, BBM, Netflix, SirisXM, Skype, or any other top 10-15 "must have" apps pre-loaded and ready to roll, BlackBerry WILL be 4th in the ecosystem, and possibly out of the public end of selling thier devices (i'm sure RIM will always have a business device of some sort.) in the U.S. within a few years.

[undone]

Apps will be the next evolution. Think of STEAM for phones.

Imagine:

You buy a license for one device using <insert app name>. You register that license with X phone. The app is also supported by M, N and Y phone OS. You can unregister the license from X phone and re-register it with Y phone.

That would make you hardware independent.

Thinking about it though, app devs would probably want to drain you of as much cash as they can.

Still think its a good (for the customers) idea.

[wuulfy]

nothing new, the only places anyone seems wowed are forums dedicated to blackberry. the rest of the tech blog world is just about unanimously "meh" on the subject. literally.

What does "meh" mean?

[gregorylkelly]

I have a Sprint Bold 9930, upgraded from a Curve 8330 and a few of my paid apps wasn't able to transfer from OS5 to OS7, and that's within the same OS. Imagine an entirely new OS, I bet 40-50% of my current apps will not be avaible on the new OS10. RIM is hoping to have 100k apps ready for the OS10. Still over 400K behind the iphone. If this device doesn't have native e-mail, BBM, Netflix, SirisXM, Skype, or any other top 10-15 "must have" apps pre-loaded and ready to roll, BlackBerry WILL be 4th in the ecosystem, and possibly out of the public end of selling thier devices (i'm sure RIM will always have a business device of some sort.) in the U.S. within a few years.

Preloaded?!?!? I don't want that crapware preloaded on my phone! If you mean available to download, thats fine, but keep the bloatware off my phone!

[siddo_d]

Man. What does this company have to do to get positive press?

I am fed up also!

[Blackberry_boffin]

so hardware specs dont matter? and you can develop for the OS without it being the finished product. That's like saying if a car isn't ready to roll out and be driven, what's the point of manufacturing aftermarket parts? sheesh, think before you type.

Also, considering some analysts are still referring to it as bbx, im inclined to think their opinion isn't worth much. If you cant do enough research to know the name has been changed, why would i believe what you have to say about the company?

And one more thing; to all those saying RIM didn't offer anything new or innovative to entice users from apple and google, what did android offer when it launched? it was (and is) pretty much exactly ios, but open source. But that hasn't stopped it from selling like crazy and eating up market share.

There hasn't been "innovation" since apple launched the original iphone and created the app market. And until someone implants the cell phone into the human brain, there wont be 'innovation'. That doesn't mean BB10 wont be successful and offer a pretty sweet looking 3rd option to those looking to change phones. Other then die hard fans who stick with the company they choose (like us here at CB :P), most people when it comes time to upgrade will choose a phone they find interesting, and if BB10 offer something on par with apple/driod it'll be a viable option for them. If it offers something more, even better, but they dont have to out do the competition to remain relevant. Thats what people dont seem to get. A 3rd option is just that, an option. Something enough for the average cellphone user to say "hey, this phone lets me do all the fancy touch things im used to, and its a whole different interface, plus it has BBM. lets give this a try"

Mind you, this is where apps like netflix and skype play a major role, so content is what RIM needs to focus on in the remaing months before the launch.

My thought exactly.
Based on the fact that noone actually mentioned BBX in ANY of those demos/presentation (and haven't done tht for a while) and you have 'analysts' and 'techies' calling it just that, you have a irm indication of what their opinions are worth and how muchwok RIM still has to do.

[n8ter#AC]

Just to add to your thought, I learned first hand about the disadvantage of ecosystems. I had a Windows Mobile 6 device (which I loved because it worked well for me. It had Midomi, Shazam and other apps which I paid for and were really well used.

1 year later, Midomi dropped WM6

Soon after that, Microsoft released WP7... and shortly after WM6 was abandon.

Which is fine as a company has to move forward. But then they pretty much closed down the WM6 application store (called Marketplace).

And I had to repurchase those applications twice, once on iPhone then on blackberry.

Windows Mobile never really had a decent app ecosystem, though, and since Hotmail has supported ActiveSync for years now it has always been easy to move off of Windows Mobile. The only people who were truly stuck with it were corporate users because without Middleware Solutions (like BES) Windows Mobile is the only smartphone platform still in existence that supports pretty much all Exchange Security Policies.

Closing down that App store isn't a big deal. Most Windows Mobile corporate devices are locked down by Exchange Policies. You can't even install third party apps on those phones, Lol. Consumers have generally abandoned that platform - mostly to Android. WP7's user base is comprised mostly of rather light smartphone users so they can't really understand the issues that a lot of heavy users have with that platform. It just doesn't deliver anything for me. Really I think I'd use the <Expletive Striken> out of a Bold 9900 at this point, but the HD7 has really caused me to loath using my phone to the point where I went from always being on my smartphone to consciously trying to avoid using it (I tend to use my iTouch more than my HD7, tethered when out and about). Something is [obviously] wrong with that situation... (Maybe that's what Microsoft meant when they said they'd save us from our phone?).

A lot of friends are starting to notice that I barely post on Facebook and respond to IM; things like that. Well... Those are things that I almost always did from my phone, and since I tend to avoid using it now... There you go!

I had over $100 in app purchases on Android before I left that platform and deleted my Google account. If I move to iOS and want the same apps it will be about that much to repurchase them. On WP7 it's actually more expensive cause many of the same games cost 2-4x more than on iOS/Android. I've only repurchased about $5 worth of apps on WP7 for that reason alone.

It gets expensive. That's over half my phone bill, and I have two lines on my account.

Seriously I carried two smartphones and an iTouch for over a year to try to avoid this issue, and it just didn't work out. Too much "stuff" all the time. I had to get rid of one of the phones (still use the iTouch, case the music playback battery life is phenomenal as is the sound quality).

[OzarkaTexile]

RIM has a huge hole. And the analysts are correct in that nothing they announced changed that. That's not really a knock on the analysts or on RIM, it's just a fact that the health of the company and their prospects for growth did not change based on the keynote. That keynote was for developers. If they can get people writing apps, it will make the launch more successful.

Personally, I think RIM is doing all the right things and I would like to see them succeed. But I also think that when the BB10 device is released it will be a competitor to iPhone and Android devices, though not a market leader. I don't think they're leapfrogging anyone in 2012.

[husainpatan]

What else NEW do u want?
They brought up multitasking as like NEVER before (even my XP can't do THAT much).
Brought up a Keyboard like NEVER before. which virtual keyboard gives up prospect words even before u start typing it? Anyone? predictive text now seem so yesterday.
Had an camera app which was WICKED! yeah yeah, there are gonna be people ranting it being an adapted/integrated 3rd party app. But the question is: how many of us knew about it before rimm showed it to the world? it appreciated a well worth technology potential to grab eyes ... And yeah good smiling pics too.
It has an screen to put retina to shame. Viewing angle is almost 170 degrees , ofcourse. Can't be more that unleSs u r more interested in the bazel.
The Alpha device has a 4.2-inch screen with an stunning
resolution of 1280 x 768. This means more horizontal
pixels than the standard 720p panels; easy to conlclude that this may maybe the best display industry has to see. The screen is top notch.
Whatelse does they need to do now? Slit their throats and serve on plates for u!

If now can someone counter this; especially those with "rim hasn't done anything NEW"

[berklon]

They may have announced new stuff, but outside of the BB faithful - there's no real WOW factor for consumers. That's what they need.

What makes it worse is that this non-WOW factor device is being shown after years of RIM sitting on their tushy - and it still won't be out for another 6 months at the earliest. Meanwhile the Galaxy III will be announced tomorrow... and an iPhone 5 will be out before the BB10 device.

[sinsin07]

Just to add to your thought, I learned first hand about the disadvantage of ecosystems. I had a Windows Mobile 6 device (which I loved because it worked well for me. ...snip

If you were on WM6, you stayed one OS to long (or brought into WM to late). By the time WM6, that platform was stale.

Apps will be the next evolution. ...snip

LOL Really? You may be a little late to the party. First Bud's on me, just to get you up to speed.

[leftypepper716]

They may have announced new stuff, but outside of the BB faithful - there's no real WOW factor for consumers. That's what they need.

What makes it worse is that this non-WOW factor device is being shown after years of RIM sitting on their tushy - and it still won't be out for another 6 months at the earliest. Meanwhile the Galaxy III will be announced tomorrow... and an iPhone 5 will be out before the BB10 device.

My thoughts exactly. What they needed was a full complete device that had that "Man o man! I cant wait to get this phone!" Everything RIM is still doing is half-...I know, I'm an apple fanboi and wait another year and a half and BlackBerry will be #1 all around the world.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[ubizmo]

I'm more than a little perplexed by all this talk of the need for RIM to do something so mind-blowingly innovative and different that it causes jaws to drop, in parallel with the requirement that BB10 should have all the same apps that the other platforms have.

I think most users pretty much know what they want their smartphones to do. They just want them to do those things well. They want things to work, without too much struggle. The fact that there are apps that are popular on every platform says that users want their phones to do those things that the apps do. We call these systems "platforms" because, like a performing stage, what matters is the featured act. The platform should make the apps look good, and otherwise stay the out of the way.

Apart from serving as a platform, the OS and hardware should enable the user to get things done, in a way that's intuitive, efficient, and pleasing. It's not supposed to set the user's hair on fire.

And there should be ample opportunity for the user to personalize and let the device express some of his/her personality. In a world in which almost everything we touch is mass-produced, people crave individuality. And mobile phones have become more than just devices; they are personal accessories, just as watches were always more than just timepieces. Ironically, BBOS has always been good with respect to personalization, but a lot of people don't know it. BB10 shouldn't neglect this, but it's too soon to expect to see how it will work.

If BB10 gets these things right, that'll be more than enough Wow.

[Justthecrack]

They may have announced new stuff, but outside of the BB faithful - there's no real WOW factor for consumers. That's what they need.

What makes it worse is that this non-WOW factor device is being shown after years of RIM sitting on their tushy - and it still won't be out for another 6 months at the earliest. Meanwhile the Galaxy III will be announced tomorrow... and an iPhone 5 will be out before the BB10 device.

Firstly, you should not read ANYTHING into what any ONE analyst has to say right now. You will not see them make any bold statements until AFTER the fact, when sales numbers start rolling in. If you listened to them in 1998, Apple was supposed to be dead by 2000 thanks to that behemoth Microsoft.

Whether there was any "WOW" factor is simply in the eye of the beholder. If someone can consider Siri a "WOW" (something that has been around for at least 20 years already), then the camera most certainly could. You really shouldn't try and speak for consumers because until this gets closer to launch, with full marketing, you simply have no idea and neither do most analysts. They are not going to change sales and growth forcasts based on a simple prototype device with only a few features leaked. Analysts have as much a sheep mentality as the general pubilc.

[maddie1128]

This is exactly why I called it vaporware in another post. That may not be technically correct, but we don't know what the product, or OS will look like. Therefore, it is just as premature to love it as it is to hate it. It's hard to know what we've really seen.

What investors wanted to see was a Siri moment. They want to see something game changing, new, outside the slab thinking. All we saw was iterations on every Android, iOS, WP7 slab. There is no Siri style innovation to capture the imagination. That is why they are being punished in the media and in the stock market.

A "Siri moment"??? Seriously??? Have you ever watched Hoda and KathieLee in the morning? Hoda tried for about 2 weeks to show Kathie how innovative Siri was and was not able to get it to perform correctly even once. Now that my friend is a "Siri Moment". haha

[menaknow]

If you were on WM6, you stayed one OS to long (or brought into WM to late). By the time WM6, that platform was stale.

When I buy a phone, its to look for an OS that lets me get **** done. I bought the HTC TyTN (WM 5) device and it was one of the longest lasting phones. It also gave the ability to change OS ROM etc.

To this day I don't buy a phone until my current device does not meet my needs. Even with BB10, I probably will be with my 9900 for a few years before I upgrade.

It depends on the person I guess, I used to have time to change, reconfigure phones (hence the WM rom changes). Now I just need things to work. And thats my Blackberry Bold.

[menaknow]

First off, you put some effort in your post. I have to give you that.

Windows Mobile never really had a decent app ecosystem, though, and since Hotmail has supported ActiveSync for years now it has always been easy to move off of Windows Mobile.

Never said it wasn't easy to move off of WM (ie Windows Mobile). It is easy to move off of any device imo. Because I've done it several times.

I guess I should have made it more clear that I was with Windows Mobile from 2006 to 2010 (two devices both WM). Move off to iPhone 3gs in late 2010 and in 2011 been in blackberry bliss since.

To be clear, apps were available and were NOT a problem for Windows Mobile. But you had to get the "cab file" (exe equivalent) from a 3rd party site. Basically the delivery system was the problem. When they introduces the app "marketplace" however they didn't really follow through with it.

The only people who were truly stuck with it were corporate users because without Middleware Solutions (like BES) Windows Mobile is the only smartphone platform still in existence that supports pretty much all Exchange Security Policies.

No, there was a BIG consumer following also. Windows Mobile allowed customization of the OS. And allowed dual boot of Android and WM. And as such was very popular to the end.

Research xda-developers and you'll know what I mean.

Closing down that App store isn't a big deal. Most Windows Mobile corporate devices are locked down by Exchange Policies. You can't even install third party apps on those phones, Lol. Consumers have generally abandoned that platform - mostly to Android. WP7's user base is comprised mostly of rather light smartphone users so they can't really understand the issues that a lot of heavy users have with that platform. It just doesn't deliver anything for me. Really I think I'd use the <Expletive Striken> out of a Bold 9900 at this point, but the HD7 has really caused me to loath using my phone to the point where I went from always being on my smartphone to consciously trying to avoid using it (I tend to use my iTouch more than my HD7, tethered when out and about). Something is [obviously] wrong with that situation... (Maybe that's what Microsoft meant when they said they'd save us from our phone?).

A lot of friends are starting to notice that I barely post on Facebook and respond to IM; things like that. Well... Those are things that I almost always did from my phone, and since I tend to avoid using it now... There you go!

Funny, I'm actually debating whether to close my Facebook account right now. As I consider it more a distraction and waste of my valuable time. I could be playing sports/having a coffee etc rather than reading farmville updates.

I had over $100 in app purchases on Android before I left that platform and deleted my Google account. If I move to iOS and want the same apps it will be about that much to repurchase them. On WP7 it's actually more expensive cause many of the same games cost 2-4x more than on iOS/Android. I've only repurchased about $5 worth of apps on WP7 for that reason alone.

It gets expensive. That's over half my phone bill, and I have two lines on my account.

I never buy and application unless I will really use it heavily. My 3GS thought me that especially as I have several purchase apps.... And the most and almost only used application ended up being..... SHOUTCAST

Seriously I carried two smartphones and an iTouch for over a year to try to avoid this issue, and it just didn't work out. Too much "stuff" all the time. I had to get rid of one of the phones (still use the iTouch, case the music playback battery life is phenomenal as is the sound quality).

Used to always carry around my WM device as an PDA with my iPhone as my talk device for a while. So I know what you mean. It was a pain in the . So much so, that I ended up going back to the WM device for 2 months and dropping the iPhone.

In which was a step back considering it was and EDGE device!

2 months later the Bold 9900 came out and I got it day one and replace my WM device.

Anyways, thanks for the trip down memory lane, I actually had to check my emails to figure out what dates when I had what phone....lol

[Rello]

My thoughts exactly. What they needed was a full complete device that had that "Man o man! I cant wait to get this phone!" Everything RIM is still doing is half-...I know, I'm an apple fanboi and wait another year and a half and BlackBerry will be #1 all around the world.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

I fail to see how people don't give RIM credit for doing anything correct. So let's get this correct...Apple introduces Siri, and it becomes known that nuance is the big contributor to the technology, and yet it is still innovative to consumers and blots alike, but when RIM introduces a new tech and its known that someone else helped develops the tech, people say that it's not innovative since RIM didn't do it themselves. It's ridiculous. Show me another company that even remotely has a feature in their camera close to what RIM showed in their new camera app...even my sides on android said that was an amazing feature they'd like to see come to their devices.

Sure they might not have shown anything earth shattering, but did you really expect them to when the devices using the OS are still 4 months out? U people want them to do exactly what's been hurting them for so long...announce a product in its entirety, yet release 4 months later when there will be absolutely no hype left. You don't think that just maybe they've held back their best hand to be shown off at a later date?

At least let them show off the whole product before u start saying they have nothing consumers want which is completely ridiculous.

[Economist101]

I fail to see how people don't give RIM credit for doing anything correct. So let's get this correct...Apple introduces Siri, and it becomes known that nuance is the big contributor to the technology, and yet it is still innovative to consumers and blots alike, but when RIM introduces a new tech and its known that someone else helped develops the tech, people say that it's not innovative since RIM didn't do it themselves. It's ridiculous.

Well, to be fair, Nuance's contribution to Siri is voice recognition, but Siri is really a combination of that recognition with an ability to understand commands regardless of format. Does Apple get better treatment than RIM? Sure. But that's because they have the performance to back it up. Back in the late 90s, Microsoft got better press than Apple because Apple was floundering and MS wasn't. That's just how it goes.

[kevinnugent]

WOW... check this out, some guys post on the BGR article:



THAT IS TRUTH right there... yes he may work for RIM, but can you deny ANYTHING that is said there?

I'll bet you $5 he gets nowhere NEAR 4,500 emails a day.

[Rello]

Well, to be fair, Nuance's contribution to Siri is voice recognition, but Siri is really a combination of that recognition with an ability to understand commands regardless of format. Does Apple get better treatment than RIM? Sure. But that's because they have the performance to back it up. Back in the late 90s, Microsoft got better press than Apple because Apple was floundering and MS wasn't. That's just how it goes.

Yes sir'......u are correct and I don't want anyone in here thinking I'm trying to take anything away from apple and their achievements. Unlike many in here I appreciate that Apple keeps others innovating thru competition...I guess I would just others to even be slightly fair. I love my 9900 and PlayBook but am by no means a BB fanboi and can easily point out many weaknesses of RIM but some are just acting like RIM showed nothing at all even remotely interesting. I guess what I'm saying is that if they feel what RIM showed was simple just "meh"...then I need to see their definition of innovative when its a tech that no other manufacturer is using. Sure it was earth shattering, but I would definitely say it's was innovation.