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  1. greyw0lf01's Avatar
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    Default Apps Apps Apps

    I find it exceedingly annoying when people try and defend Blackberry’s lack of Apps by defaulting to the question of how many apps do you really need... and then it leads to “most” people only use x number of apps anyway.

    The idea of a rich ecosystem means that there are many (sometimes duplicate) apps that allows users to pick and chose which app works BEST for them. While there may be 3 apps in a field, it doesn’t mean someone can’t break in and re-imagine the way that function is used... example the new Mail app released yesterday. It’s yet another take on how to manage your inbox. It could be great or it could suck but it’s another option to chose from.

    In NY, we have quite a few (more than 2 dozen) MTA (public transport) apps for iOS and Android users to choose from. This variety was encouraged by the transit authority to come up with the best possible solution besides the official app (which is terrible). Some work better than others, but I pick the one that suits me the best.

    I like to stream my music, should I be limited to just one option or should I be able to cherry pick from. I like Pandora but I might also want to use Rdio for certain features. When people say things like the apps will come, it doesn’t mean anything; Windows Phone 8 just got Spotify!!!... how much longer has it been around for iOS and Android?

    FB updates their app with new features on a regular basis as part of their attempt to monetize their mobile stream. Regardless of the how you feel about FB and privacy, those features roll through to iOS/Droid and then eventually make it to other platforms. How long will it take Vine or Flipboard to make it to BB10, natively?

    The idea of porting apps over is great for increasing the Blackberry app store but it begs the question. If I can get it native on Droid, why shouldn’t I just use a Droid device?

    I’m guessing these comments are from people who never had a rich selection to choose from (large ecosystem) thus they don’t understand the idea that the number of apps available being a direct representation of how good your product is.

    I want BB10 to succeed (as a shareholder) but blaming Google because they don’t offer a native app isn’t going to help sell devices and keep propelling the stock higher.

    After Living With BlackBerry 10, I Went Back To Android – ReadWrite
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    First post...and you're here to bash, hmm...

    Fact is, the BB10 ecosystem is in its infancy, and I'm certain that when the Google app store started out, it was in a similar situation. And once the adoption of the platform took off, so did the app selection. It would have been asinine to wait for exhaustive app selection to launch the platform, since a lot of companies and developers will be waiting to see if the platform is sustainable...chicken and the egg, something had to come first, and I think this was the only way to go.
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    That's why I'm not buying a BB10 phone until it's at least 6 months old.
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    and you are expecting what form a totally new platform.... tell me how many apps Android and Windows had when they launched??.... time to back under the bridge
  5. greyw0lf01's Avatar
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    First post on the forums, have a few posts on the main site.

    In either case, does it make the points any less valid, particularily being a shareholder?

    The big difference between the BB10 ecosystem and the Android one was the cost of the device. If Apple phones were too expensive and you wanted a touch screen smartphone you had a cheaper alternative. When you have a huge user base it becomes much easier for developers to support that platform.

    Samsung based its current strategy off the low end devices creating demand then rolling out higher end devices because support for the platform was established.

    BB’s strategy is to port apps over but does nothing to build a following directly on its own platform. BB has 79mm users worldwide but the turf wars are being fought in the UK and N.A. The fact that the new device doesn’t support BIS for anything other than BBM is a little troubling.
  6. njblackberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netwerx1 View Post
    First post...and you're here to bash, hmm...

    Fact is, the BB10 ecosystem is in its infancy, and I'm certain that when the Google app store started out, it was in a similar situation. And once the adoption of the platform took off, so did the app selection. It would have been asinine to wait for exhaustive app selection to launch the platform, since a lot of companies and developers will be waiting to see if the platform is sustainable...chicken and the egg, something had to come first, and I think this was the only way to go.
    Do you have a Zed10? Did BlackBerry not delay the launch two (or three) times to "get it right". So they launch with a buggy OS and minimal apps.
    Guess that isn't good enough for everyone.
  7. greyw0lf01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmalloy View Post
    and you are expecting what form a totally new platform.... tell me how many apps Android and Windows had when they launched??.... time to back under the bridge
    A new platform isn’t the issue... it’s the slow acknowledgement that apps matter. For year blackberry users claimed their device was designed to get stuff done and that touch screens were toys and joked about fart apps. The new BB is touch screen and now you’re chasing after those same fart apps.

    How does that make anyone a troll by questioning the strategy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmalloy View Post
    and you are expecting what form a totally new platform.... tell me how many apps Android and Windows had when they launched??.... time to back under the bridge
    Neither Google nor Microsoft rely on their phones as their major source of income. Neither has seen their market share drop dramatically and bed the ranch on a new "ecosystem" (sorry, it's a phone; a good phone with minimal apps). I think the circumstances are different. Google makes billions on ads and Microsoft, well, they could lose millions a year on phones and not notice or care.

    BlackBerry had better pay attention. Even if the True Believers north of the border feel all is well.
  9. netwerx1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyw0lf01 View Post
    First post on the forums, have a few posts on the main site.

    In either case, does it make the points any less valid, particularily being a shareholder?

    The big difference between the BB10 ecosystem and the Android one was the cost of the device. If Apple phones were too expensive and you wanted a touch screen smartphone you had a cheaper alternative. When you have a huge user base it becomes much easier for developers to support that platform.

    Samsung based its current strategy off the low end devices creating demand then rolling out higher end devices because support for the platform was established.

    BB’s strategy is to port apps over but does nothing to build a following directly on its own platform. BB has 79mm users worldwide but the turf wars are being fought in the UK and N.A. The fact that the new device doesn’t support BIS for anything other than BBM is a little troubling.
    The BB10 ecosystem is literally 8 days old...if it gains strong adoption, then the missing app support will be resolved, if it doesn't then it probably won't...are you saying they would have had a better chance by releasing a lower cost entry-level device first? Because waiting for widespread app support before launching was not an option, simply not possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by netwerx1 View Post
    First post...and you're here to bash, hmm...

    Fact is, the BB10 ecosystem is in its infancy, and I'm certain that when the Google app store started out, it was in a similar situation. And once the adoption of the platform took off, so did the app selection. It would have been asinine to wait for exhaustive app selection to launch the platform, since a lot of companies and developers will be waiting to see if the platform is sustainable...chicken and the egg, something had to come first, and I think this was the only way to go.
    I don't think he's here to "bash", I think the OP raises some legitimate issues here.

    I see three tiers of apps. On the top tier are the big name, big audience apps. Skype, Songza, Instagram, etc. In a way, these are kind of easy to get, since there aren't THAT many of them. It's easy to concentrate an effort. I'd say we haven't seen all of BB's cards on these, btw; I suspect that there are a number of moving parts on this particular issue, and that there may be some interesting surprises in store before the US launch.

    The "third tier" are the real low-end stuff. Small utilities, hobby/student efforts, that kind of thing, and BB has been doing a fantastic job of bringing new devs into the fold there.

    The "middle tier" is where BB10 is likely to be weak for a while, and that's where I'd classify the kinds of apps you're talking about. They may have a huge audience, but they're kind of local in scope. There may not be a lot of BB10 users needing these apps, and that may be where either third parties take the APKs and convert them (not ideal by any stretch, but it gets the job done), the publisher decides to do an Android port, or (best of all) they decide to support BB10.

    That's going to be an uphill climb unless we miraculously see BB10 gain a quick 20% market share in the US.





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  11. njblackberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netwerx1 View Post
    The BB10 ecosystem is literally 8 days old...if it gains strong adoption, then the missing app support will be resolved, if it doesn't then it probably won't...are you saying they would have had a better chance by releasing a lower cost entry-level device first? Because waiting for widespread app support before launching was not an option, simply not possible.
    For months now people on this forum have been saying that the PlayBook was the beginning of the Ecosystem, and the PlayBook is the beta/1.0 that the Zed10 is based on.
    So was the PlayBook a disaster in its own right (sales < 1.5mm = disaster) or was it a harbinger of the "ecosystem" that is 8 days old or 20 months old?
  12. netwerx1's Avatar
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    I'm not one of those apologists that ask "how many apps does a person need", so I agree with that point...but the expectation that a brand new app ecosystem be fully stocked prior to launching is unrealistic no matter how you look at it. Any new platform, no matter how much money and planning is thrown into it, is going to need to see user adoption before the apps will come in force.
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  13. greyw0lf01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netwerx1 View Post
    The BB10 ecosystem is literally 8 days old...if it gains strong adoption, then the missing app support will be resolved, if it doesn't then it probably won't...are you saying they would have had a better chance by releasing a lower cost entry-level device first? Because waiting for widespread app support before launching was not an option, simply not possible.
    Suggesting that Blackberry should have done a few things differently:

    1. Launch both the flagship z/q10 at the same time (satisfy your base) & price it less than the established players;
    2. Cross license BBM;
    3. Spend the money used for Alicia Keys to convince a big name developer to sign on at launch, suggestions such as Twitter, FB or pay through the nose for something like being the only smartphone to offer office 365 on a mobile phone;
    4. Ensure that in emerging/developing countries that BIS in some form was always an option
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    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    For months now people on this forum have been saying that the PlayBook was the beginning of the Ecosystem, and the PlayBook is the beta/1.0 that the Zed10 is based on.
    So was the PlayBook a disaster in its own right (sales < 1.5mm = disaster) or was it a harbinger of the "ecosystem" that is 8 days old or 20 months old?
    PlayBook is not the BB10 ecosystem...that was a disaster, and they basically put it on the shelf to get BB10 out the door in my opinion.
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  15. netwerx1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyw0lf01 View Post
    Suggesting that Blackberry should have done a few things differently:

    1. Launch both the flagship z/q10 at the same time (satisfy your base) & price it less than the established players;
    2. Cross license BBM;
    3. Spend the money used for Alicia Keys to convince a big name developer to sign on at launch, suggestions such as Twitter, FB or pay through the nose for something like being the only smartphone to offer office 365 on a mobile phone;
    4. Ensure that in emerging/developing countries that BIS in some form was always an option
    Okay, only #3 has anything even remotely to do with your original post, but I'm in agreement with these ideas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by netwerx1 View Post
    I'm not one of those apologists that ask "how many apps does a person need", so I agree with that point...but the expectation that a brand new app ecosystem be fully stocked prior to launching is unrealistic no matter how you look at it. Any new platform, no matter how much money and planning is thrown into it, is going to need to see user adoption before the apps will come in force.
    How long will all this take though? That is the neverending question. The PlayBook is the perfect example, it's been on the market how long now, and it's app ecosystem is absolutely terrible in comparisons to others. Seeing as how this was supposed to be the Beta for BB10, coupled with the fact that everyone was saying the delay to bring BB10 to market was good because then it would allow more time for app develpers to get on board, just goes to show me that it seems very few are interested.

    I'm sure over the next year, developers might slowly jump on board, but how long can RIM BB afford to wait?
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  17. greyw0lf01's Avatar
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    The other thing I want to note is as great as the BB10 is, how long do you think it’ll take another device maker to copy those features?

    The keyboard is great but Apple will soon offer a similar experience. Android has something in swiftkey, that’ll get better.

    The hub feature will force iOS/Droid to improve and they can and rather quickly.

    The other thing is the lack of a home button. The Galaxy S IV being released shortly lacks a home button...

    The BB10 features are patentable right. In 6 months or less, anything that makes one device great will be copied ad nauseam.
  18. njblackberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netwerx1 View Post
    PlayBook is not the BB10 ecosystem...that was a disaster, and they basically put it on the shelf to get BB10 out the door in my opinion.
    There are several long time Apologists here who have insisted that the PlayBook was the basis for BB10.
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  19. #19  

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    I went from Android (Nexus 4) to a Z10. I didn't write an article about it. Drama queen.

    I love how on your website, you have:

    "I went back to Android:
    - list all negative points of BB10" without a single mention of the many things it does better than Android.

    * Don't forget to tell us next time you use the washroom too!
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    Thorsten announced there are over 70 000 apps available for BlackBerry OS 10. I have not waded through BlackBerry World extensively but I am hard-pressed to find 70 000 apps currently in BlackBerry World...I explore the various categories and estimate a few hundred apps at most. Maybe my BlackBerry Z10 is filtering them considering it already knows what I want to type after only a few days with the virtual keyboard.
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    I am really tired of seeing the same type of thread repeated over and over by the same people trying to make the same points, over and over and then over again. Most of the blackberry bashing should be done in the Android or iphone forums. This particular one looks like it is meant to score some blog hitpoints, as are most. I don't see a contribution to the forum or any sense of community when I see titles like After living with Blackberry 10 I went back to Android. With 4 post, you started an account to post a link to your blog and then pick a fight to drive traffic. I find this exceedingly annoying. Take it to Android Central!
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  22. #22  

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    Quote Originally Posted by greyw0lf01 View Post
    Suggesting that Blackberry should have done a few things differently:

    1. Launch both the flagship z/q10 at the same time (satisfy your base) & price it less than the established players;
    2. Cross license BBM;
    3. Spend the money used for Alicia Keys to convince a big name developer to sign on at launch, suggestions such as Twitter, FB or pay through the nose for something like being the only smartphone to offer office 365 on a mobile phone;
    4. Ensure that in emerging/developing countries that BIS in some form was always an option
    1) They were trying to rebrand the company and change their image. How well do you think that would've worked out if the average uneducated purchaser saw a Blackberry with a keyboard?

    2) I agree with this

    3) They still have a lot of money. It's not like they spent all their money on Alicia Keys so they have none left -.- They paid a ton to developers. How much convincing do you think they had to do to get Microsoft to approve Skype (even just a port) to a rival OS? Office 365 exclusive for BB10? Let me get this right; you want a *Microsoft* product to be made exclusively for their direct competitor?

    4) Getting rid of BIS was so that more carriers would carry the phones. Many carriers were fed up with having to pay for BIS infrastructure since the cost rarely made it to the user. I think they did a good job prioritizing ease of access/availability of the phones, especially when BBOS 7 phones will still be sold in developing countries. It is clear that their main goal with BB10 is to target developed countries.

    It is exactly people like you that said "oh ya, Android will NEVER take off. Compared to iOS, it doesn't have apps, it doesn't have this blah blah blah."
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffsdad View Post
    I am really tired of seeing the same type of thread repeated over and over by the same people trying to make the same points, over and over and then over again. Most of the blackberry bashing should be done in the Android or iphone forums. This particular one looks like it is meant to score some blog hitpoints, as are most. I don't see a contribution to the forum or any sense of community when I see titles like After living with Blackberry 10 I went back to Android. With 4 post, you started an account to post a link to your blog and then pick a fight to drive traffic. I find this exceedingly annoying. Take it to Android Central!
    Sorry buddy but I’m not the author of the article. I follow a number of tech blogs and say it as an interesting read. I'm a shareholder and since I’m in the market to make money (not lose), the points of someone who has an article discussing why they aren't sticking with BB10 is of concern.

    I started this post because I get sick and tired of people claiming: we'll get those apps or who really needs that many apps anyway or anything not BB10 is a toy. In the real world, those things matter. If I’m not mistaken (and I’m not), Kevin was at the launch here in NY so obviously the Blackberry team values this community... where else would you like me to post this.

    The post was intended as a discussion, not grand illusions of what will come and when it'll get here.

    You want to talk about plusses of BB10, great... the keyboard is amazing, bar none. The hub is great as well.... but how long before those things get replicated out of existence?

    Blackberry should have offered something that no other platform had... the ability to truly create content like word & excel documents. That I think would have blown the door off the competition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    How long will all this take though? That is the neverending question. The PlayBook is the perfect example, it's been on the market how long now, and it's app ecosystem is absolutely terrible in comparisons to others. Seeing as how this was supposed to be the Beta for BB10, coupled with the fact that everyone was saying the delay to bring BB10 to market was good because then it would allow more time for app develpers to get on board, just goes to show me that it seems very few are interested.

    I'm sure over the next year, developers might slowly jump on board, but how long can RIM BB afford to wait?
    This problem may solve itself faster than you think.

    Let's figure there's 2.5 million Playbooks out there (and that's being a bit liberal). If early sales are good, we might see that many Z10s out there before it even launches in the US, so the market for QNX-based apps will have suddenly doubled. That may be an optimistic assessment, but I'm not sure it's that far out.

    Regardless, by summer I'm pretty sure we'll be looking at a QNX device population of upwards of 10 mil worldwide. Suddenly, the ecosystem is WAAAAY more attractive.





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    Quote Originally Posted by greyw0lf01 View Post
    Blackberry should have offered something that no other platform had... the ability to truly create content like word & excel documents. That I think would have blown the door off the competition.
    How ironic that it actually *does* have both of those things
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