[captain_tinker]

Hey Everyone,
Ok, I'm really curious... Now that RIM has allowed the QNX OS (Playbook OS, BB10, etc.) to run Android programs, I have to admit, I like that feature, and I'd like to see it developed further and really put to good use. The problem that I am seeing with it right at the moment is the lack of integration with Google Play (Android Market). I understand that the apps must be "converted" into a file that the OS can use, in this case .APK to .BAR file. Ok, I can live with that a little bit, but what I want to really see is the Playbook OS and BB10 be able to log into the android market and actually be able to use it. Giving us this little taste, and yet not allowing full functionality in my opinion, may be a poor idea, as it shows me what is possible, but prevents me from "Doing". Unfortunately for me, giving me a taste of Android, and not letting me use it on my BB to its full potential is kind of making me consider looking at an Android someday if the new BB10 devices still cannot use all the Android apps that are out there in an easy and functional way. Here is what I want to see in the way of Android integration:

- Full integration with and access to Google Play
- Full integration with and access to Amazons App Store
- to have ALL Android apps work, not just some of them. Especially multimedia apps, that I would actually use.
- no more having to "convert" an APK to a BAR file with often arcane and difficult to use methods (apk2bar) and then sideload it with non official software (DDPB).
- Want to be able to see that there are updates to currently installed android apps, and get them updated by pressing a single button, not by manually checking periodically, downloading the new apk, if you can find it, converting it and sideloading it. It takes way too much time to do this.

Does anyone know if these things are anywhere near being on RIM's radar? Or do they have another way to solve the issues? Of course the best way to do it is have everyone that writes apps write them for BB as well as apple and android, but I am suppose that that may be wishful thinking?

capT

[anon(2757538)]

So what you want...is an Android phone..clearly not BB10.

PS. simple answer...no, Google Play will never be on a BlackBerry device.

[mrmartis]

Hey Capt.

I think you have a great idea and it would be amazing, but i think its wishful thinking. RIM wants to make its own Operating System and its own ecosystem of apps. Similar to Apple's iOS, Blackberry 10 is gonna be hardware and software seamlessly built for one another for max OS integration with hardware.

The problem is not the programming behind connecting to Google Play or even downloading apps. (see point *android apps at the bottom of the page for more info.) Although, its about branding and marketing, blackberry is working hard to create flow, peek, invoke so the blackberry app experience is all consistent. They don't want to have people keep downloading android apps, they want android developers to make blackberry apps.

Think about this: if you have a weather app running and you want to share ur current weather as a tweet, on BB10 you simply click on the share to twitter and it invokes twitter sharing feature without leaving the weather app and without even opening the full twitter app. This is the magic of the invoke experience on BB. Now say the same weather app on android was downloaded onto bb10, pressing share would call the full twitter app to be opened and sent by jumping out of the weather. This becomes inconsistent with users, because in most cases they expect the fluidity of an app to be one way but it isn't. This fragmentation confuses users and why blackberry wants devs to make blackberry apps. The sole purpose of the android apps being on the playbook was to bring android devs back to blackberry and get them reinterested so that one day when the glorious BB10 drops they will consider coding for it.

*Android Apps all of us have can already side loaded the android market onto our playbook and dev alphas and browse it and view many things. If you sideload a converter app into BB10 and give invoke permissions to the android market to invoke .apk to .bar conversion before you download, you can even download apps from android onto this theoretically.

[captain_tinker]

So what you want...is an Android phone..clearly not BB10.

Please don't be so quick to dismiss me, I'm a long time BB user, and defender. I'm just looking to make the experience more useable.

mrmartis, you have some good things to say. Thank you for the well thought out reply, it's nice not to have people jump down one's throat at the slightest hint of being out of lock step with the fanboys. I guess I just need to actually hold a BB10 in my hands and use it for a while so that I can make an informed decision. I guess I see your point about the point of the android apps being on playbook so that the devs would start coding again for BB, but at the same time I guess it kind of caused me to get the wrong idea about it. I still think that if they are going to keep allowing android apps, they should really integrate it properly. Otherwise, remove the option altogether and get the devs to write the programs natively. Frankly, that's the route I'd rather have them go in.

capT

[Xopher]

Although Google has allowed some Android ROMs to access Google Play, manufacturers have to meet specific things to be Google approved. Some things include Google Framework, which is the gApps backbone (allows account access), and other things. There are several hardware vendors that run Android who aren't approved and don't have access (Amazon for one). It's not just about running Android.

Plus, not all Android apps run on the PlayBook. The Android Player supports the Android SDK, but I don't think it fully supports the Android NDK. Lots of Android apps crash on the Playbook because of this, and I don't think Google would want to give access to a device that doesn't fully support the full Android platform. Can you imagine all the negative reviews apps would get for crashing on the PlayBook when it is really a limit of the Android Player?

[Bla1ze]

So what you want...is an Android phone..clearly not BB10.

PS. simple answer...no, Google Play will never be on a BlackBerry device.

It's fun to dream but eventually you wake up.

[xsacha]

When Android Player first came out you could install .apk's from Play Store as-is on Playbook.
They since removed that (prevented it). They want you to get them from AppWorld only.

Android .BAR is just a zipped .APK.

[captain_tinker]

When Android Player first came out you could install .apk's from Play Store as-is on Playbook.
They since removed that (prevented it). They want you to get them from AppWorld only.

Android .BAR is just a zipped .APK.

Now that's interesting. I'm glad to be getting all this information. Lots to think about. In any case, I really think that if they are going to allow Android apps at all, they should go all in and make it work right. If they are not willing to do that, or unable, they really ought not do it at all. It is obvious to me that the best way to handle this is to have all the apps released as BB native apps through app world, but up until now, and likely for a while, this is not realistic. So few people are caring about BB outside of the few real enthusiasts anymore that it's likely not profitable for them to release a BB version of their software. That and for some, I think that it's likely that they feel if they refrain from releasing their app for BB then soon BB will cease to exist. I know, it's a bit of a conspiracy theory, but I think that it is highly realistic that that is exactly what is going on with many. Keep BB from getting any good apps, and eventually the users will leave. ??? I dunno...

[fabio984]

Bb10 will have apple store, google play, appworld, symbiam, and windows phone
They are just with a delay launch the phones cause they want to put a beer machine too

[missing_K-W]

Less Android code in BB10 the better. Too much clunky code and Android doesn't allow devs the extent of direct hardware access as BB10 will. If RIM was to build a Google specific app offering only Google essential services that may be ok. Very limited and only to the extent that multi platform users would use Google software. Basically just a decent google search engine, including Gmail etc. Just the essential services.

I'm not sure how RIM's Android Player engineers are going about the code. I imagine there is a strategy to remove the bloated code and optimize the performance.

[missing_K-W]

Less Android code in BB10 the better. Too much clunky code and Android doesn't allow devs the extent of direct hardware access as BB10 will. If RIM was to build a Google specific app offering only Google essential services that may be ok. Very limited and only to the extent that multi platform users would use Google software. Basically just a decent google search engine, including Gmail etc. Just the essential services.

I'm not sure how RIM's Android Player engineers are going about the code. I imagine there is a strategy to remove the bloated code and optimize the performance.

[missing_K-W]

Less Android code in BB10 the better. Too much clunky code and Android doesn't allow devs the extent of direct hardware access as BB10 will. If RIM was to build a Google specific app offering only Google essential services that may be ok. Very limited and only to the extent that multi platform users would use Google software. Basically just a decent google search engine, including Gmail etc. Just the essential services.

I'm not sure how RIM's Android Player engineers are going about the code. I imagine there is a strategy to remove the bloated code and optimize the performance.

[Ian Rae]

Already is on BlackBerry PlayBook so suck out hahahaha

[Richard Buckley]

Hey Everyone,
(SNIP)

- Full integration with and access to Google Play
- Full integration with and access to Amazons App Store
- to have ALL Android apps work, not just some of them. Especially multimedia apps, that I would actually use.
- no more having to "convert" an APK to a BAR file with often arcane and difficult to use methods (apk2bar) and then sideload it with non official software (DDPB).
- Want to be able to see that there are updates to currently installed android apps, and get them updated by pressing a single button, not by manually checking periodically, downloading the new apk, if you can find it, converting it and sideloading it. It takes way too much time to do this.

Does anyone know if these things are anywhere near being on RIM's radar? Or do they have another way to solve the issues? Of course the best way to do it is have everyone that writes apps write them for BB as well as apple and android, but I am suppose that that may be wishful thinking?

capT

I don't see what you're asking for as ever being a possibility. While early leaked or beta version of the Android runtime for PlayBook did allow you to run (some) full APKs right off Google Play that was never the production goal for BlackBerry. Those environments worked that way because they essentially ran Android in a virtual machine on the PlayBook, like VMWare, VirtualBox, etc. This is a very powerful paradigm but it is limited for what most smartphone users are looking for. How do you allow integration between Android applications in the VM, and native apps outside it, or system resources but still maintain the level of security that is BlackBerry's hallmark and expected by users (and much better than Android)?

The issues you point out about locating, installing and upgrading Android applications on BB10 only exist for those applications vendors have not officially ported to BB10. The fact that third parties can do it, or users can do it at home, should be a wake up call to those vendors of how low the cost of providing service to the, admittedly comparatively smaller, BB10 user base can be. I buy books from Amazon to read on the Kindel app someone else ported to the PlayBook because Amazon couldn't be bothered. I have lots of ported android apps on my PlayBook, and on my Dev Alpha that install, upgrade and operate just like (from the user point of view) a native BB10 application.

Ultimately I agree that it would be nice to be able to log onto Play and get apps from there, or iTunes and run apps from there on my Z10 but I don't see that being any more realistic than getting onStar or Ford Sync on a Honda.

[Pestus]

I'd absolutely love to see BB take off. The hardware is now finally up to standards, and there's no doubt that anyone within government, sensitive work environments like intelligence or foreign affairs... or the corporate world would rue the day that this secure platform goes away. Not withstanding the various agencies that have moved already, or are considering it... it still remains true that when the Waterloo Ontario data centers go down, the stock markets don't function. I've heard it said that Canada would never allow the sale of RIM, as it would be a massive security issue for the western system. See, in the enterprise sector, I think they'll find themselves a successful niche, like they always have had.

In the consumer market, I wonder if it's too late. The iOS and Android ecosystems are so heavy and rich at this point, that it still remains to be seen if app developers will begin to remember to write more than 2 versions of their apps. The same issue comes up with Nokia's Windows phones. I see it constantly in my work. I do all sorts of elaborate and exotic residential security systems, automation systems, camera systems, NAS systems, and such. What I'm finding is that all of the new smart home technology out there is in ascendency partially because of the proliferation of smart phones. Yet, for all the sophistication and forward thinking nature of these companies, they do not write for BB, or Windows Phone. I find myself in a quandary whenever I run into a person with a BB, version 10 or otherwise. Half the feature sets of the hardware they might be interested in, simply won't work for them. I don't like seeing the disappointment on their face when I tell them BB isn't supported. I know many people here would not want to see full Android adoption, due to very good reasons relating to the quality and design approach inherent in BB 10. (No doubt it's superior). My problem is, the smart phone phenomenon isn't over yet. It's still changing our world. The next wave will be interoperability with a myriad of other house hold electronics. They might be smart if they built a robust VM, or something, and got Google acceptance. Whatever it takes. Remember when Apple dropped Motorola for the sake of Intel and x86? People saw that as cheapening the brand. In the end, it was more simply accepting reality and going with it. They survived it and did well despite siding with the enemy.

In the end, looking back on better times for RIM, I almost wonder if the enterprise market was always their goal from the beginning, and the consumer adoption of their phones prior to the iPhone was accidental. If this is true, it might explain how long it took for them to realize they waited too long, and that the consumer market can not be ignored if they wish to keep their ecosystem relevant.

[russworman]

The most likely reason you will never see Google Play on BlackBerry is because that would take away profit from BlackBerry... they want you to buy music, movies, and programs from BlackBerry World .

Posted via CB10

[Nemory Studios]

Hey Everyone,
Ok, I'm really curious... Now that RIM has allowed the QNX OS (Playbook OS, BB10, etc.) to run Android programs, I have to admit, I like that feature, and I'd like to see it developed further and really put to good use. The problem that I am seeing with it right at the moment is the lack of integration with Google Play (Android Market). I understand that the apps must be "converted" into a file that the OS can use, in this case .APK to .BAR file. Ok, I can live with that a little bit, but what I want to really see is the Playbook OS and BB10 be able to log into the android market and actually be able to use it. Giving us this little taste, and yet not allowing full functionality in my opinion, may be a poor idea, as it shows me what is possible, but prevents me from "Doing". Unfortunately for me, giving me a taste of Android, and not letting me use it on my BB to its full potential is kind of making me consider looking at an Android someday if the new BB10 devices still cannot use all the Android apps that are out there in an easy and functional way. Here is what I want to see in the way of Android integration:

- Full integration with and access to Google Play
- Full integration with and access to Amazons App Store
- to have ALL Android apps work, not just some of them. Especially multimedia apps, that I would actually use.
- no more having to "convert" an APK to a BAR file with often arcane and difficult to use methods (apk2bar) and then sideload it with non official software (DDPB).
- Want to be able to see that there are updates to currently installed android apps, and get them updated by pressing a single button, not by manually checking periodically, downloading the new apk, if you can find it, converting it and sideloading it. It takes way too much time to do this.

Does anyone know if these things are anywhere near being on RIM's radar? Or do they have another way to solve the issues? Of course the best way to do it is have everyone that writes apps write them for BB as well as apple and android, but I am suppose that that may be wishful thinking?

capT

Will never be possible. BB10 can only run .BAR files. not .APK

[Nemory Studios]

But maybe if I will gave the time in the future, maybe I can make an app that can do similar like that. Since there is a web service that can convert APK to BAR then this is really possible. Also if BB will allow installing BAR apps in the device itself. Then this will be 100% possible.

[b1gbleu]

This may be an old thread but since getting my Z10 I see we're still relying on a website to convert apps. Whatever apps I submit for conversion ask for permissions for basically everything. The permissions give the website converters of the app my info? It reminds me of my Android phone.