[docgasberry]

Looking at the initial 1 hour of trading volumes, and the direction of stocks movement, my guess is that there is still a huge amount of shorting on BBRY.

There are very good postulations going around that Blackberry may just partner with Sony on BB10, imagine an Xperia with BB10 If this should be the case, what would be an estimated fair market value of BBRY?

[Fubaz]

sony is horrible. I would disown the brand if they started making smart devices together

[aniym]

sony is horrible. I would disown the brand if they started making smart devices together

Sony makes the best designed phones right now next to Apple. Their music and movie ecosystem would be a great boost for BB10. I seriously doubt however that there is any chance of a Sony-BB tie-up as their new strategy has been to integrate their company's strengths on one platform, which is Android. If Sony can pull that off, then maybe they'll think about others. Sony is primarily a consumer-oriented company, so BB's business-focused branding doesn't seem like a good match for them.

[docgasberry]

Sony makes the best designed phones right now next to Apple. Their music and movie ecosystem would be a great boost for BB10. I seriously doubt however that there is any chance of a Sony-BB tie-up as their new strategy has been to integrate their company's strengths on one platform, which is Android. If Sony can pull that off, then maybe they'll think about others. Sony is primarily a consumer-oriented company, so BB's business-focused branding doesn't seem like a good match for them.

Well, BBRY has pulled the plug on BIS. My guess is that if they decide to license BB10, it'll be without the BES10 features, i.e. BB10 on a consumer orientated phone. As it is now, without a BES10 subscription, the Z10 is no different from any other smartphone in terms of sales to a Telco. Previously they had to sell a BB subscription as well. This way, BBRY still keeps a hand on its crown jewels and Sony gets to use the latest consumer orientated mobile OS with a well develop eco system that is in Sony's interest to promote (Sony Music and Pictures).

[Dapper37]

A deal for Sony to build BB10 phones for the Japanese market could work for both companies!

[docgasberry]

BBRY probably appeals more now to the enterprise market whereas Sony probably appeals to the young, mobile and hip market so they may not be cannibalizing each other. More of sales synergy.

The greater volume of BB10 devices shipped, the greater potential for BB World, incorporating Sony Music and Pictures. Again win-win synergy for both BBRY and Sony. Without BES10 feature, a "lite" BB10 could make its way into the lower end market and Sony may actually ship more units here than BBRY. This would leave BBRY with the high to mid-level market and maybe Sony to the mid to lower end market segments. Again a more define market share than the present cut throat scenario in Android.

[cgk]

A hook-up with Sony wouldn't be a strength, it would be a sign of weakness.

[lnichols]

I don't know why people are negative on this. Imagine a PS4 or PSP running BB10 and having your BlackBerry device talking fully to your PS4. Sony still has recognition in Europe as a quality phone.

[docgasberry]

Well, the top volume shipper today is Samsung on Android. On the contrary, Google is not doing as well with Motorola mobility even though they originated Android. However together it is still a win-win situation for both Samsung and Google. I certainly don't see this hook up as a sign of weakness for either.

[randall2580]

without the fees now, the profit for BB is essentially in the sale of the phone. If Sony license it would only bring in a small fee and then the Z10 and Q10 would be competing with a new Sony phone? Don't see it, and again when I hear Thorsten talk about licensing its usually about devices that are not phones (medical, auto, appliances, etc). Although he always says he would "listen" if you watch his body language and the way he says it it's never with any enthusiasm and I doubt BB wants to compete with BB10 on someone else's phone.

[cgk]

Well, the top volume shipper today is Samsung on Android. On the contrary, Google is not doing as well with Motorola mobility even though they originated Android. However together it is still a win-win situation for both Samsung and Google. I certainly don't see this hook up as a sign of weakness for either.

Different model that emerged under different conditions, originally Google did not compete directly with Samsung and now that they do, Samsung is already the market leader - this would place Blackberry competiting directly against a licensee during the period when they are trying to build share and margins.

[docgasberry]

The reality, as I see it, is that BB10 can not hope to dethrone iOS or even take a significant part of its market share. I doubt a BB device will appeal to the general pop 'n mom crowd coz it sounds too "smart" (what would they do with the most modern enterprise driven OS) whereas a Sony device may coz they are used to Sony consumer products.

The present Android market is largely owned by Samsung with the rest fighting for scraps. And not turning a profit. A Sony branded BB10 device may conceivably take market share from both iOS and Android market. As already mentioned here, the die hard BB users will stay with BBRY. And the bottom line is that market share is still important for survival of BB10. Or any OS for the matter.

[Dapper37]

A hook-up with Sony wouldn't be a strength, it would be a sign of weakness.

Why, because of your perceived impression of Sony, They like BlackBerry have a lot of unleveraged strengths. The Japanese market to start is interesting. Perhaps just the key!

[docgasberry]

without the fees now, the profit for BB is essentially in the sale of the phone. If Sony license it would only bring in a small fee and then the Z10 and Q10 would be competing with a new Sony phone? Don't see it, and again when I hear Thorsten talk about licensing its usually about devices that are not phones (medical, auto, appliances, etc). Although he always says he would "listen" if you watch his body language and the way he says it it's never with any enthusiasm and I doubt BB wants to compete with BB10 on someone else's phone.

Yes, BBRY has done away with BIS. And yes, they need to sell hardware now to increase bottom line. But that is not the whole story. My take is that they have decided to forgo the BIS service fees (it may not be worth it for the cost of maintaining it as witnessed by the increasing recent disruptions. And as total subscribers increases, it'll get more complicated) and make it up via BB World. With BB World, the total number of BB10 devices matters. Even from other manufacturers.

[cgk]

Why, because of your perceived impression of Sony, They like BlackBerry have a lot of unleveraged strengths. The Japanese market to start is interesting. Perhaps just the key!

Have Sony suddenly become a mobile powerhouse rather than just another also-ran who couldn't turn a profit if they fell over it?

[RubberChicken76]

Sony makes the best designed phones right now next to Apple

Well - you think they do.

Sony is primarily a consumer-oriented company, so BB's business-focused branding doesn't seem like a good match for them.

Far, far, far more people use BlackBerrys for personal use than business. This is a common misconception

Yes, BBRY has done away with BIS

No. The BlackBerry 7 devices still being sold utilize it. And IIRC, there are some circumstances in which Blackberry 10 does as well.

[tiziano27]

If Sony is having trouble making a profit in the many times bigger android market, how do you expect them to make profit licensing BB 10 that is a tiny share of the smartphone market?.
Nobody even knows if BlackBerry will survive.

[Bbnivende]

Currently Sony is the third place in the market selling twice as many smartphones as BB ( before BB10) . After BB 10 I presume they might be equals. I see no downside for Sony to add BB10 to their stable ( like HTC with WP8) . I do see some loss in sales from BB to Sony . The point though to make sure that BB10 is a viable alternative and to increase the numbers of devices using QNX software. On the hardware side BB needs competition to improve it's products.

Sony could use BB10 to differentiate and diversify their products from all the other android phones out there.
Japanese brand products would not sell well in China ( big post WWII issues still between Japan and China that I saw on a recent visit to China ) and BB would do well to partner up with Lenovo for that market. Many Lenovo store fronts in China just like our Apple stores (but not fancy).

Sony CEO Hirai: Firm Aims to Be a Top Smartphone Maker - WSJ.com

[EauRouge]

all this talk of BBRY not being able to take over marked share from iOS and android. Everything is cyclical, they cannot be kings for ever.

[cgk]

all this talk of BBRY not being able to take over marked share from iOS and android. Everything is cyclical, they cannot be kings for ever.

No this is wrong because it makes the assumption that people come back, they *might* come back but there is nothing to suggest that the sector is cyclical in that everyone takes their turn at the top - it is just as likely that once you fade, you don't come back and the replacement for iOS and Android is from a company we don't know at this moment.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Currently Sony is the third place in the market selling twice as many smartphones as BB ( before BB10) . After BB 10 I presume they might be equals. I see no downside for Sony to add BB10 to their stable ( like HTC with WP8) . I do see some loss in sales from BB to Sony . The point though to make sure that BB10 is a viable alternative and to increase the numbers of devices using QNX software. On the hardware side BB needs competition to improve it's products.

Sony could use BB10 to differentiate and diversify their products from all the other android phones out there.
Japanese brand products would not sell well in China ( big post WWII issues still between Japan and China that I saw on a recent visit to China ) and BB would do well to partner up with Lenovo for that market. Many Lenovo store fronts in China just like our Apple stores (but not fancy).

Sony CEO Hirai: Firm Aims to Be a Top Smartphone Maker - WSJ.com

While being different is a good thing sometime in business... the problem is that currently BB10 is still too different.

[bk1022]

sony is horrible. I would disown the brand if they started making smart devices together

Lol. Actually, I was thinking the converse of the thread subject: How much is Sony worth if it licenced BB10? Maybe Sony would stop sucking so bad.

[sentimentGX4]

I don't think it would impact the value that much. On one hand, it would prove BBRY is capable of licensing their OS. On the other hand, it's Sony. Regardless if you appreciate Sony designs or not, I think it could be agreed they are a complete non factor in the smartphone market.

I really don't see any partnerships BBRY can make with any of the major OEMs that could propel BB10. Samsung, HTC, and LG have already experimented with Windows Phone with negigible impact and there aren't any major OEMs left like Nokia that could go all-in Blackberry.

The truth is that licensing your own OS is a tough sell. Look at WebOS. Even Microsoft with its deep coffers gets constantly flaky partners. More than one partner has supported Windows Phone, pulled support, and then come back.

[adrenaline_x]

Heh. BIS service fees will lower the income for sure. But this can mitigated with licensing/CALS for their MDM solutions/connections for Android and IOS along with bb10. There is ALOT of money to be made in the MDM market and its exploding with BYOD. BYOD is great because users can buy their own devices and pay for their one mobile services. This makes it cheaper for the businesses that would otherwise be providing devices. But with BYOD the devices still need to be secured and managed by the company to ensure the security. BB sees this and had addresses it. Lots of interesting things will be coming down the pipe that lot of people fail to see it and are still stuck looking at current issues such as bis going away.. But MDM is ramping up.

[RubberChicken76]

Currently Sony is the third place in the market selling twice as many smartphones as BB ( before BB10) .

Sony shipped 9.8 million in the most recent quarter. Not sure what sellthrough was. In the last reported quarter, RIM shipped 6.9 and sold through 8.4. Sony's doing better but not at "twice as many"


Smartphone shipments surge in 4th quarter | UTSanDiego.com