[Troy Tiscareno]

Yes fully agree that Mike screwed up BBRY and BB10. My point was THOR and especially JC haven't given BB10 any meanful effort. In terms of app support, development support, marketing support.

That's because by the time JC got involved, BB10 was already out of chances. BB simply didn't have the money to throw at advertising, and as Microsoft's example has shown, even throwing tons of money at both advertising and trying to woo developers won't gain you all that much if you're in third place, much less fourth place.

BB10's biggest problem was that it had no ecosystem. Forget about Snap or Cobalt's solutions - the vast majority of customers will never accept those kinds of work-arounds. In order to count, you have to be able to go to the app store that ships with the phone, click Install, and have the app work. BB10 didn't have that for WAY too many apps, and so no amount of promotion or advertising was going to make buyers buy it (again, witness WinPhone), and without marketshare, developers weren't going to develop for it - except for crap like S4BB's 50,000 junk apps.

BB10 the OS is great, but without an ecosystem, that doesn't matter. JC can't just do whatever he wants - he is fiscally responsible for the health of the overall company, which means he can't just spend BB dry trying to promote BB10 when few are willing to tolerate all of the parts that the BB10 platform is missing. Most people want apps, and most people want cloud services, and most people want tablets and wearables that run the same OS and can share data - all things that BB isn't.

You can't blame JC for not backing a horse that not only couldn't win, but wasn't even going to finish the race. That would just be throwing good money after bad. I'm fully convinced that the BoD had already decided, before they even hired Chen, that they were done with BB10 (in fact, seeking bids to sell the company was really the clearest sign), and Chen's main direction was to keep BB10 going just long enough to keep revenue coming in to help the transition to software. BB10 couldn't even do that - not enough people who share BB's priorities and can accept BB10's limitations - so Chen has accepted the move to Android.

But, really, the BoD and Chen don't much care about the smartphone business anymore - it's been a massive money/value drain on the company, and they are looking forward to the time where software is bringing in enough revenue that the smartphone business can be shut down completely. Those things take time, though, so until then, BB has to be seen selling phones. The move to Android means much lower costs for BB and a higher likelihood of sales - yes, at the expense of diehard BB10 fans - a trade BB is more than willing to make.

You can dream all you like, but at the end of the day, if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense.

[Don P1]

I agree 100%! However, how do WE mobilize to help BlackBerry?

I like BB10 and I don't want to see if disappear. There's a lot of complaining but no campaigning (no, I'm not related to Jesse Jackson). If BlackBerry had a way that we could upload videos testimonials for viewing on their YouTube channel, I'd do it!

...would you?

The Z10 STL 100-3 on 10.3.1.2708 BlackBerry owners on AT&T Channel C0032C652

+1

Posted via CB10

[1Criz]

Are you kidding? Apple owners were given two choice: upgrade or be left behind. Apple has had 3 major systems with the Mac:

- Original MacOS
- OSX on PowerPC
- OSX on Intel

In both of those two upgrades, you either bought a whole new machine and paid to upgrade all of your apps, or you stayed with your old, obsolete machine and whatever apps you already had - which were quickly abandoned. But, still, Apple had a real ecosystem for the Mac, and Mac users were so anti-PC that they were willing to pay whatever it took to stay with Mac, and Apple knew it and took full advantage of it.

That's somewhat true of BB users, except there aren't enough of them and because BB10 never had enough of its own ecosystem to sustain a big portion of its userbase.

Sorry Troy, but you don't remember those well.

Apple did 3 migrations
On Classic OS from Motorola to RISC
On RISC from Classic OS to OS X
On OS X from RISC to Intel.

I actually know, because I was experiencing all those first hand.

I don't have patience to list details of each transition, but bottom line is that Apple bend over backwards to ensure that they not lost single customer during those transitions. The old apps were for two years working on new systems using emulation , the new computers can dual boot to OS9 or OS X during this particular migration. They ported in form of Carbon all the libraries of the old system to OS X to placate developers.

This would actually be BlackBerry allowing to dual boot OS7 and BB10 on new phones as well as letting BB10 to run OS7 apps unmodified as well as putting BIS as option in BB10.

Posted via CB10

[Hendri Hendri]

[QUOTE=1Criz;12039760]They are still valid. But market is small. To be able to use browser instead of apps, you need to have more knowledge of how IT works. Not many people are able to.

Posted via CB10[/QUOTE

With android decision, these statement still valid ? These statement used to be crackberrian magic word and pride to answer questions from some blackberry users who asking for apps, and to mock other os user with their toys

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Hendri Hendri]

I think JC first priority is to save the company , with efficiency and slim down the company to the core business, so they at least can stay "healthy". Handset may (be) not his first priority. It's a tough market. Samsung is not doing good with their handset devision as well. Android handset could be a trial for them to enter software business for android


Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Old_Mil]

The thing is, he doesn't even understand what the core competency of the company is: secure, private communications. There is absolutely a need for this in today's world. The fact that he has let Blackphone meet that need instead of Blackberry is sad. The fact that he decided to use Android as the basis for a new device is worse.

[StephanieMaks]

Sorry Troy, but you don't remember those well.

Apple did 3 migrations
On Classic OS from Motorola to RISC
On RISC from Classic OS to OS X
On OS X from RISC to Intel.

I actually know, because I was experiencing all those first hand.

I don't have patience to list details of each transition, but bottom line is that Apple bend over backwards to ensure that they not lost single customer during those transitions. The old apps were for two years working on new systems using emulation , the new computers can dual boot to OS9 or OS X during this particular migration. They ported in form of Carbon all the libraries of the old system to OS X to placate developers.

This would actually be BlackBerry allowing to dual boot OS7 and BB10 on new phones as well as letting BB10 to run OS7 apps unmodified as well as putting BIS as option in BB10.

Posted via CB10

This is how I remember it too. I've used Macintosh since System 7 on a Motorolla 68040 chip. From that to the early Power PC chips, to the PPC G3 and G4 then to Intel.

For the transition from PPC to Intel, I remember specifically that the new machines had a 'runtime/emulator' in the OS to allow them to seamlessly run apps designed for the old architecture. And devs could produce new apps with 'fat binaries' that would support both old and new, natively.

IMHO, Apple made those transitions as painless as possible for their customers, and their developers.

[kbz1960]

I understand the Software push such as IoT and securing all devices and OS's. But he's done some major harm to BlackBerry and he continues to Ignore his Customers and those that are curious about the BB10 Platform that want something other than the likes of Android and iOS.

John Chen Major Mistakes ever since he came on board as CEO of BlackBerry: Not in order of importance. They are all important.

1) Garbage BB10 Hardware MARKETING. Then blames the platform for crap sales.
2) No High End Full Touch BB10 phone. Yes comes out with a 2011 Spec'ed Leap.
3) Destroying BB10 Development and screwing all BB10 Dev's. That was Foolish.
4) Signing up with Amazon for Android Apps. Yes the apps we no longer get that most want.
5) Releasing the most innovative Smartphone on the Planet with Zero Marketing. i.e.: Passport
6) Not releasing a 10" BB10 Tablet, the same tablet Government wanted, but were forced to go with iPads due to BBRY's negligence & incompetence
7) Ignoring the consumer market, which in turn forces the Enterprise to ignore BB10 Hardware. ( Enterprise are Consumers and Visa Versa, people talk)
8) A lot more, don't get me started.

1) What was there to market that would be of interest? A good OS with barely any apps or workarounds to get them. Then not all work? What is there to market that would get users to switch?

Wasted money!

2) Again, how would a high spec BB10 device get people to switch?

3) Screwing devs? I guess but seems most devs for BB10 are small time / part time devs. You do remember hardly anyone was porting their apps, the easy thing to do.

4) Amazon was better than BlackBerry World alone. If you want android apps, besides what forked versions get you have to play by the rules. It's up to the dev again.

5) No marketing again. Refer to 1.
6) No BB10 tablet. You really thing people were begging for one? They already failed miserably once with that. Guess why? No freaking apps!

7) Kind of agree.

So basically all your complaints revolve around marketing and apps. Not much to promote esp when no one was writing native apps, big players - popular. So again, what should an expensive marketing campaign revolve around to get people to switch? PKB?

[Prem WatsApp]

No it wasn't. It was the fault of Mike & Jim (mostly Mike) for sitting on their asses for 3 full years without even starting work on a next-gen OS, and then making decisions that ensured that OS wouldn't be seen for 3 more years (and not really viable for 4 years) after work began on it.

You can't blame Thor and JC for those issues - they had no control over the circumstances that lead them to a no-win situation. So many people here want to blame Thor and JC for things that weren't fixable by the time they came into the picture - when nearly all of BB10's issues are directly a result of Mike Lazaridis.

"They put a Mac computer in there....!" ;-P

(how could that have ever happened!!)

�   Ahoy, Privateers...! :-)   �

[sportline]

If JC kills BB10 then he is the one..we have seen before..Elop..Rubenstein..

Passport SE

[RubberChicken76]

"They put a Mac computer in there....!" ;-P

(how could that have ever happened!!)

•   Ahoy, Privateers...! :-)   •

Actually, if you've read the book, the quote was "How did the carriers let them get away with it, when no one else has ever been able to do that before?"

That was Apple's real disruption because it gave them freedom to move fast when others were tied down by carrier contracts.

[Prem WatsApp]

Actually, if you've read the book, the quote was "How did the carriers let them get away with it, when no one else has ever been able to do that before?"

That was Apple's real disruption because it gave them freedom to move fast when others were tied down by carrier contracts.

Think different.

...? :-)

�   There's a Crack in the Berry right now...   �

[RubberChicken76]

Think different.

Indeed. They did an incredible coup by "thinking different". NO ONE had been able to wrench out from under the carriers before. And it was the gift that kept giving because Apple had contracts that didn't require them to bow to the carriers in the same way as competitors, and could move faster.

Great companion piece to losing the signal because it covers the same material from Apple and Google's point of view (BlackBerry is actually hardly mentioned really)

http://www.amazon.com/Dogfight-Apple...UvbUpU12108080

[qwerty4ever]

The single most important mistake that the management team made was taking Research In Motion public. As a privately held company maybe it could have returned to its engineering roots instead of giving in to the whims of a fickle market and investors turned casino players.

BlackBerry Priv with CrackBerry App for Android

[Tien-Lin Chang]

I agree 100%! However, how do WE mobilize to help BlackBerry?

I like BB10 and I don't want to see if disappear. There's a lot of complaining but no campaigning (no, I'm not related to Jesse Jackson). If BlackBerry had a way that we could upload videos testimonials for viewing on their YouTube channel, I'd do it!

...would you?

The Z10 STL 100-3 on 10.3.1.2708 BlackBerry owners on AT&T Channel C0032C652

Well, the basic to help a company is to creat cash flow for it to get solid profit.

So instead reloading some BB video on youtube for over 10,000 times to get 20USD for BBRY, maybe you can start with buying a BB phone at least every two year?

Oh wait, you're still in the 1st gen BB10 device....

[Troy Tiscareno]

The single most important mistake that the management team made was taking Research In Motion public. As a privately held company maybe it could have returned to its engineering roots instead of giving in to the whims of a fickle market and investors turned casino players.

Without public money, BB would have never reached the heights it did. The truth is that public investors tend to be much more forgiving for far longer than private investors. Yes, going public is a double-edged sword, but so is staying private.

[RubberChicken76]

My point was THOR and especially JC haven't given BB10 any meanful effort. In terms of app support, development support, marketing support.

Thor didn't? He only launched the fracken thing ...

[app_Developer]

Without public money, BB would have never reached the heights it did. The truth is that public investors tend to be much more forgiving for far longer than private investors. Yes, going public is a double-edged sword, but so is staying private.

Totally true! Or put another way, I'm always happier to be accountable to 1,000 idiots than 5 or 1.

[qwerty4ever]

Without public money, BB would have never reached the heights it did. The truth is that public investors tend to be much more forgiving for far longer than private investors. Yes, going public is a double-edged sword, but so is staying private.

BlackBerry stock price proves otherwise.

BlackBerry Priv with CrackBerry App for Android

[Troy Tiscareno]

BlackBerry stock price proves otherwise.

Just the opposite. Private investors would not have tolerated BB's 5-year slide to obscurity for nearly as long. It was public money that gave BB that much leeway. If BB was funded by, say, 10 large investors, it's likely that more than half of them would have sold off or shut down BB long ago, or at the very least, forced the shuttering of the hardware business years ago.

[qwerty4ever]

Just the opposite. Private investors would not have tolerated BB's 5-year slide to obscurity for nearly as long. It was public money that gave BB that much leeway. If BB was funded by, say, 10 large investors, it's likely that more than half of them would have sold off or shut down BB long ago, or at the very least, forced the shuttering of the hardware business years ago.

By not taking the company public I meant keeping it private and free of investors except the owners. You are suggesting the equivalent of a cabal, not exactly beneficial to the company only to their greedy selves.

[app_Developer]

By not taking the company public I meant keeping it private and free of investors except the owners. You are suggesting the equivalent of a cabal, not exactly beneficial to the company only to their greedy selves.

If the company were "free of investors" you and I would never have even heard of RIM or BlackBerry.

They took a significant round of funding from a few funds in 1996. I believe that was their second round. Once you've done that, you have to provide a return to those investors and some liquidity event (an IPO or acquisition)

RIM without investors would have been an interesting student project and nothing more. They could never have taken early pagers to market at any noticeable scale. And without the pagers, there would have never have been phones.

The premise seems to be that if it weren't for those pesky investors, there wouldn't be this pressure to make money. There is always the pressure to make money. It doesn't matter if there is 1 owner or 10 or 10 million. No business can stay solvent by investing in products that aren't making money.

[RubberChicken76]

If the company were "free of investors" you and I would never have even heard of RIM or BlackBerry.

Sssshhh. Stop making sense.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Where did JC go wrong.... answering the phone when Prem Watsa called him a couple years ago.

[TGR1]

By not taking the company public I meant keeping it private and free of investors except the owners. You are suggesting the equivalent of a cabal, not exactly beneficial to the company only to their greedy selves.

A private company is under less scrutiny and perhaps less open to broad market effects but your description is pretty well what any company is. Investors = owners.