[acadia1106]

Even in emerging markets, bbOS needs to die. Time to consolidate, one OS to rule them all. The Q5 and Z5 need to be the bottom rung period and this is fragmentation is costly and isn't forcing people to learn his great bb10 is. Consolidating devices , focus and cleaning on OS, will go a long way to recapturing mind share.

I would look at what Audi did in the car industry as a model on how to make a successful comeback and how they handled their product lineup , from top to bottom you see a synergy, that can't be beat and even tough each car model is unique you see the lineage. Audi started this with A4 in 1996 by 2001 they were well on their way back and by 2004 had a unified lineup, those A4 owners grew up and A6 and A8 were bringing the craftsmanship they saw in A4.

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[redchilli88]

Agree with you once BB10 is on par with BBOS as a professional communication tool (not talking about the browser and media tools).

It's close but not there yet.

[antoscimento]

I agree with the concept. Blackberry should adopt a unified and homogeneous design language for all its devices from low end to high end, and for both full touch and qwerty physical keyboard.

Posted via my Q10/Playbook/Curve

[Troy Tiscareno]

The problem with that is that most of BB's revenues still come from BBOS. BB used to have 80,000 BES customers, but are now down to 25,000, and of those, about 20,000 are still on BES 5 and BBOS devices. Also, sales in emerging markets over the last several years, which have been instrumental in keeping BB alive, have been BBOS.

I don't see BB being able to stop selling BBOS devices until AT LEAST 2015. They probably won't need to manufacture any more, but they have plenty of stock sitting around, and many of their enterprise customers will expect to be able to buy replacements for at least another year.

Remember, even as of the last quarter, BBOS devices outsold BB10 by 3:1, and that's been true every quarter of last year - since BB10 was released. Until that changes, BBOS is still going to be around, even though there is no long-term future with it. BB doesn't have enough revenue from other sources to shut off the BBOS revenues.

[acadia1106]

The problem with that is that most of BB's revenues still come from BBOS. BB used to have 80,000 BES customers, but are now down to 25,000, and of those, about 20,000 are still on BES 5 and BBOS devices. Also, sales in emerging markets over the last several years, which have been instrumental in keeping BB alive, have been BBOS.

I don't see BB being able to stop selling BBOS devices until AT LEAST 2015. They probably won't need to manufacture any more, but they have plenty of stock sitting around, and many of their enterprise customers will expect to be able to buy replacements for at least another year.

Remember, even as of the last quarter, BBOS devices outsold BB10 by 3:1, and that's been true every quarter of last year - since BB10 was released. Until that changes, BBOS is still going to be around, even though there is no long-term future with it. BB doesn't have enough revenue from other sources to shut off the BBOS revenues.

That's because in those emerging markets, bberry is still shopping bbOS devices. The individuals in the emerging markets will still buy bberrys just they will have bb10. It's not like the emerging market buyer is buying them because it has bbOS on the phone, they are buying it because they want a berry. It's berry which decides what OS they are shopping with. No model below Q5 should exist and if they want a lower model it should be new design with bb10, bbOS should be abolished!


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[acadia1106]

Agree with you once BB10 is on par with BBOS as a professional communication tool (not talking about the browser and media tools).

It's close but not there yet.

Why in your opinion it is not? Everything I did on old berries, I do much better on bb10?


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[glidewells]

Don't see them killing that revenue stream until they have something to replace.

Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

That's because in those emerging markets, bberry is still shopping bbOS devices. The individuals in the emerging markets will still buy bberrys just they will have bb10. It's not like the emerging market buyer is buying them because it has bbOS on the phone, they are buying it because they want a berry. It's berry which decides what OS they are shopping with. No model below Q5 should exist and if they want a lower model it should be new design with bb10, bbOS should be abolished!

And that's where you are mistaken. People in emerging markets bought BBOS phones for two reasons: BBM and BIS. BBM is the main application used, often the ONLY application in fact, because a lot of people carried an Android device, used on WiFi, for apps. And they used BBM because they could get very low-cost BBM-only wireless plans thanks to BIS.

Now, where does that leave Jakarta/BB10? BIS is no more, so BB10 phones will lose their low-monthly-wireless-cost advantage, and now that BBM is available on Android, people in emerging markets have been ditching BB phones like crazy and going all-in with Android. They can still communicate to their friends who are still using BBOS phones (via BBM), but now they have full app capabilities, and much better phones at much lower prices. People can buy, TODAY, phones with better specs than the Z30 for less than what Jakarta will cost, and Jakarta will come with sub-Z10 specs and won't be able to run many Android apps.

It will sell some, but I think many people over-estimate the brand loyalty people feel, when, really, most people's primary motivation is to get the most bang for the least buck. BB isn't going to be winning very often by that metric. Jakarta was a good idea, but like everything with BB10, it's at LEAST two years too late. BB has been bleeding users very rapidly in emerging markets, and Jakarta isn't even out yet. Don't expect the Chinese Android manufacturers to sit around either; they'll keep putting out better, cheaper phones to capture that market, making it harder and harder for BB to compete.

[acadia1106]

So the mistake was bberry killing bis. Either way bb10, should have replaced bb7 period, who the f...buys and iPhone with iOS 6, even an iPhone 4 will come with iOS7.



Posted via CB10

[JustUgochukwu]

I still don't get why bis never made it to bb10. It was a major selling point for BlackBerry devices

Posted via CB10

[trsbbs]

I still don't get why bis never made it to bb10. It was a major selling point for BlackBerry devices

Posted via CB10

BIS, in its current form (legacy), could not be made to work with BB10. This is why BES users must upgrade to the new BES10 also.

BGR posted an article on this a long time ago and folks didn't think it was true. (not really defending BGR).

Turns out it was. BlackBerry would have to run to two completely different NOC's. One for legacy phones and one for BB10.
Mike L. messed up and didn't think things through. (shocker, shocker, not!)

BlackBerry did not and does not have the billions to build all news NOC's.


Also with the old BIS you could not use apps like Netflix as the IP of the phone showed Canada. No license for that there.


From one article:

"Our source has communicated to us in no uncertain terms that the PlayBook 2.0 OS developers have been testing is a crystal clear window into the current state of BlackBerry 10 on smartphones. No email, no BlackBerry Messenger ? it?s almost identical. ?Email and PIM is a better on an 8700 than it is on BlackBerry 10,? our contact said while talking to us about RIM?s failure to make the company?s new OS work with the network infrastructure RIM is known for.

We also have some more background on why RIM?s BlackBerry 10 smartphones are delayed, and it has nothing to do with a new LTE chipset that RIM is waiting on. In what is something of a serious allegation, our source told us that Mike Lazaridis was lying when he said the company?s new lineup was delayed for that reason. ?RIM is simply pushing this out as long as they can for one reason, they don?t have a working product yet,? we were told."

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ailure-680936/

CB10 via Verizon Z10. 10.2.1.1925

[Troy Tiscareno]

So the mistake was bberry killing bis.

BIS was becoming obsolete on its own. While it solved problems that existed when data was all 2G and mobile web services were limited, it was holding the platform back in a lot of ways once mobile technology transformed with 4G and a greatly increased level of mobile services that required faster, direct connections in order to work. BIS was extremely limiting in mature markets in 2010-2011, but still had value in emerging markets until recently, but those emerging markets are maturing quickly, and BIS is now holding them back too. Data prices are falling and speeds are increasing even in those markets, so the fact that BIS retained value for longer couldn't change the fact that it was always on the same trajectory that it was a few years earlier in mature markets.

Moving to BB10 was the right thing - the only thing - to do. The big problem was the timing - BB10 came way too late, and the time BB took to respond to the iPhone/Android threat, and then the time they wasted messing around with the Playbook tablet, may be what ultimately causes the end of BB phones. BIS wasn't going to save BB, because the market has changed and made BIS more of a liability than an asset. BIS wasn't saving BB's marketshare in mature markets in 2011, and wouldn't save BB's marketshare in emerging markets in 2014.

Today's contest is all about the ECOSYSTEM, not the phone hardware or OS. It doesn't much matter how good the hardware or the OS is, what matters to just about all consumers is the ecosystem support: compatible tablets and other hardware, accessories, cloud services, apps, and media support. OS upgrades and minor new features, however nice, aren't going to make any measurable difference without substantial ecosystem growth. BB10 phones, especially with recent updates, are quite usable in and of themselves, but that's just a piece of the puzzle, not the whole story.

[acadia1106]

BIS was becoming obsolete on its own. While it solved problems that existed when data was all 2G and mobile web services were limited, it was holding the platform back in a lot of ways once mobile technology transformed with 4G and a greatly increased level of mobile services that required faster, direct connections in order to work. BIS was extremely limiting in mature markets in 2010-2011, but still had value in emerging markets until recently, but those emerging markets are maturing quickly, and BIS is now holding them back too. Data prices are falling and speeds are increasing even in those markets, so the fact that BIS retained value for longer couldn't change the fact that it was always on the same trajectory that it was a few years earlier in mature markets.

Moving to BB10 was the right thing - the only thing - to do. The big problem was the timing - BB10 came way too late, and the time BB took to respond to the iPhone/Android threat, and then the time they wasted messing around with the Playbook tablet, may be what ultimately causes the end of BB phones. BIS wasn't going to save BB, because the market has changed and made BIS more of a liability than an asset. BIS wasn't saving BB's marketshare in mature markets in 2011, and wouldn't save BB's marketshare in emerging markets in 2014.

Today's contest is all about the ECOSYSTEM, not the phone hardware or OS. It doesn't much matter how good the hardware or the OS is, what matters to just about all consumers is the ecosystem support: compatible tablets and other hardware, accessories, cloud services, apps, and media support. OS upgrades and minor new features, however nice, aren't going to make any measurable difference without substantial ecosystem growth. BB10 phones, especially with recent updates, are quite usable in and of themselves, but that's just a piece of the puzzle, not the whole story.

Dead on. Which is why bbOS should be kicked to the curb like a junkie child!!!! Bberry can't figure out why bbOS outpace bb10, here is plan, stop selling bbOS devices and problem solved. I almost wanted to shoot their product dev team when trey released another bbOS 7 device after bb10 launch!!! I was like what the f is going on with their decision making skills.


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[Troy Tiscareno]

Make no mistake: BBOS phones will only be sold for another year or so, and no new models will be made. Even in emerging markets, sales of BBOS are dropping like a rock, and there are plenty of used phones available for holdouts who must have one. Heck, there's still plenty of new-old-stock too. But BB needs to milk BBOS for every penny it can - it doesn't have enough other sources of income to do what is best for the company long-term (dumping BBOS immediately), because it wouldn't survive in the short-term if it did.

[FeitaInc]

If you're coming at it from an enterprise side, BBOS still has its use as BBOS phones are still email machines and highly effective communication devices that can be deployed on existing BES servers. And for change adverse smartphone in a big company it is a known and trusted tool.

In addition the reduction in data consumption that BES/BIS provides come in handy for businesses who travel the world.

And the lack of features might in itself be a future for some companies in that if there are no distractions available, SnapChat/instagram/and so on, then that isn't an option.

I am working for a Norwegian industrial company, and we were visited from a manufacturer of protection glasses after a new policy which said that glasses had to be worn in certain areas came into effect. They told us of two companies that were customers. Company A wanted the old school glasses since they didn't want the employees to bring the glasses home. The other company had the exactly opposite view, and the logic they communicated was that the result for the company was the same regardless of the location of where the employee sustained the eye injury; one less worker the next day.

So yeah.. BBOS has had its day in the sun, and BB10 is the future, but the CTO might want to hang on to the BBOS device a little while longer.

Posted via CB10

[web99]

So the mistake was bberry killing bis. Either way bb10, should have replaced bb7 period, who the f...buys and iPhone with iOS 6, even an iPhone 4 will come with iOS7.



Posted via CB10

I don't think there was anyway for BBRY to keep BIS with the new BB10 platform. The carriers were not on board and with cheaper data plans available many customers were not prepared to pay the extra fee on their data plans. The fact that you see many people in the emerging markets migrating to Android, which has no BIS, shows that it is no longer as big as a factor that it once was,

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy Note Tablet

[interrupteIO]

Does anyone know which bbos devices are still being produced?

Posted from Q10SQN100-1/10.2.1.1925

[Troy Tiscareno]

Does anyone know which bbos devices are still being produced?

None. The BBOS phone that came out in the middle of last year (9760?) was the last one produced, and those were manufactured in the 2nd quarter of last year. Nothing new has been produced since, but BB has plenty of old stock available, including 9930 Bolds and some Curves. BB has had zero manufacturing since the Z30 production run ended in October and Jabil Circuit canceled BB's manufacturing contract due to inactivity.

The Jakarta phone, made by Foxconn, will be the first production run since October, when it goes into production in a month or two.

[interrupteIO]

Wow ok good to know. I should buy some more bbos phones for collectibles.

Posted from Q10SQN100-1/10.2.1.1925

[acadia1106]

None. The BBOS phone that came out in the middle of last year (9760?) was the last one produced, and those were manufactured in the 2nd quarter of last year. Nothing new has been produced since, but BB has plenty of old stock available, including 9930 Bolds and some Curves. BB has had zero manufacturing since the Z30 production run ended in October and Jabil Circuit canceled BB's manufacturing contract due to inactivity.

The Jakarta phone, made by Foxconn, will be the first production run since October, when it goes into production in a month or two.

Is ridiculous they built a new bbOS device last year !

Crazy though. That they had so much inventory that they could wait 4 months before starting manufacturing again


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[Bbnivende]

None. The BBOS phone that came out in the middle of last year (9760?) was the last one produced, and those were manufactured in the 2nd quarter of last year. Nothing new has been produced since, but BB has plenty of old stock available, including 9930 Bolds and some Curves. BB has had zero manufacturing since the Z30 production run ended in October and Jabil Circuit canceled BB's manufacturing contract due to inactivity.

The Jakarta phone, made by Foxconn, will be the first production run since October, when it goes into production in a month or two.

Wow ! I did not know that . You should pass that Tidbit on to our Belfast friend.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

What's ridiculous is that BlackBerry didn't plan for the transition from BBOS to BB10.



Posted via CB10

[acadia1106]

What's ridiculous is that BlackBerry didn't plan for the transition from BBOS to BB10.



Posted via CB10

The fact that they had any bbOS devices coming out after bb10 pretty much summed that up. Even for emerging markets , shouldn't have been . Some say BIS was the reason bbOS is still alive in emerging marketers but they should have had a better plan to somehow keep that service alive and force everyone to bb10.


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[cfoxx]

I think launching the Z10 as an expensive premium phone was another massive mistake. By doing so they attracted only a handful of loyal early adopters. The Z10 and Q5 should have been cheaper, aimed at selling to the masses, with a premium offering on the way later once BB10 had bedded in.

[acadia1106]

I think launching the Z10 as an expensive premium phone was another massive mistake. By doing so they attracted only a handful of loyal early adopters. The Z10 and Q5 should have been cheaper, aimed at selling to the masses, with a premium offering on the way later once BB10 had bedded in.

They should have had a z5? I think having a premium phone was correct, showing up with an inferior spec phone compared to what Samsung and others offered would have been suicide. for sure if they only introduce a low budget phone it would not sell in at least markets like US.


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