[_dimi_]

As tariffs can be quite expensive for inflight Wifi, perhaps BlackBerry could look to bring costs down for the airlines and their customers by introducing BIS services for airplanes? Not sure if it's do-able.. but might be worth investigating.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gogo-e...133557037.html

[Troy Tiscareno]

Since I'm assuming that by "BIS", you meant the compression component, which was helpful when most content was text-based and we had slow 2G networks. Today, most web content (by size) is already compressed, and further compression, from BIS or anything else, would make very little difference as far as data savings. It would, however, increase latency a lot, which is one reason why BIS (and other compression schemes for general Internet content) is effectively obsolete - it was made to solve a problem that we no longer have. BIS was great in its day, but technology has passed it by, even with airplane datalinks.

[BCITMike]

Since I'm assuming that by "BIS", you meant the compression component, which was helpful when most content was text-based and we had slow 2G networks. Today, most web content (by size) is already compressed, and further compression, from BIS or anything else, would make very little difference as far as data savings. It would, however, increase latency a lot, which is one reason why BIS (and other compression schemes for general Internet content) is effectively obsolete - it was made to solve a problem that we no longer have. BIS was great in its day, but technology has passed it by, even with airplane datalinks.

That's not true. This is a limited bandwidth connection and there most certainly is compression between the server on the plane and back at the NOC amongst caching and every other trick to reduce bandwidth on airplane hotspots.

It's better for the service provider to use hardware and hardcore algorithms to do this, not for end users to do.

Media is throttled on planes. https is man in the middled so they can do things with https traffic.

The application is correct, just not using BIS.

Posted via CB10

[notafanofyou]

The BlackBerry can't do anything right crowd really spend that much of their free time here? Seems odds to me..... unless they get paid for what they do.



Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

That's not true. This is a limited bandwidth connection and there most certainly is compression between the server on the plane and back at the NOC amongst caching and every other trick to reduce bandwidth on airplane hotspots.

It's better for the service provider to use hardware and hardcore algorithms to do this, not for end users to do.

Media is throttled on planes. https is man in the middled so they can do things with https traffic.

The application is correct, just not using BIS.

Posted via CB10

Been a lot of back and forth on this over the last couple of years.... In the days of 200MB data plans it was great if BlackBerry turn a 80KB email into a 20KB email, but BIS died for a reason as media consumption is now the major bandwidth "hog". As BIS didn't compression media as most of it has already been compressed. Any further compression would kill the quality of the Movies, Music or Pictures. Granted a small smartphone doesn't need the same quality as a 55" TV, a laptop or a tablet... but then you get into needed time and power to do that level of compression on the fly... And that just isn't something that BlackBerry is setup to do.

[BCITMike]

Been a lot of back and forth on this over the last couple of years.... In the days of 200MB data plans it was great if BlackBerry turn a 80KB email into a 20KB email, but BIS died for a reason as media consumption is now the major bandwidth "hog". As BIS didn't compression media as most of it has already been compressed. Any further compression would kill the quality of the Movies, Music or Pictures. Granted a small smartphone doesn't need the same quality as a 55" TV, a laptop or a tablet... but then you get into needed time and power to do that level of compression on the fly... And that just isn't something that BlackBerry is setup to do.

Except that the bandwidth from cell phone to cell tower has increased majorly over the years, where the bandwidth from plane to NOC has not scaled the same. So these are different arguments.

The Internet has many more 10GB-40GBps backbones these days with cell to tower bandwidth up to 100Mbps whereas it was < 1Mbps back when BIS came out. So on the ground, compression loses benefits over time with heavy media consumption.

But ANY connection that is bandwidth starved, compression will have greater positive gain than negative gain (hardware processing power, latency, complexity). On airplanes, the media consumption is throttled so its not 98% of the traffic like some consumer phones are who watch Netflix or whatever on their phones.

So in summary, compression is needed and used for airplane wifi to improve capacity. BIS from BlackBerry implementation would not be the right way to implement when the phones are BYOD.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Except that the bandwidth from cell phone to cell tower has increased majorly over the years, where the bandwidth from plane to NOC has not scaled the same. So these are different arguments.

The Internet has many more 10GB-40GBps backbones these days with cell to tower bandwidth up to 100Mbps whereas it was < 1Mbps back when BIS came out. So on the ground, compression loses benefits over time with heavy media consumption.

But ANY connection that is bandwidth starved, compression will have greater positive gain than negative gain (hardware processing power, latency, complexity). On airplanes, the media consumption is throttled so its not 98% of the traffic like some consumer phones are who watch Netflix or whatever on their phones.

So in summary, compression is needed and used for airplane wifi to improve capacity. BIS from BlackBerry implementation would not be the right way to implement when the phones are BYOD.

Compressing an email or word document is like putting a sponge in a vice... it compress a lot. Pictures and Video is like putting a chunk of steel in a vice....

The problem is still how do you compress, already compressed data - you don't, you can only reduce the quality of that content? Which many sites allow you to choose between low / medium / high quality. But you are still talking about a lot of data and thus a lot of bandwidth to send that data.... it is just too much data for their current systems with very limited bandwidth. What we need is for Netflix to allow some kinda caching of data for a few hours....

Compression ISN'T the answer, increasing the bandwidth is what is needed. This is in the works for the Ground based systems for the Airlines, but it will take a while.

[BCITMike]

Compressing an email or word document is like putting a sponge in a vice... it compress a lot. Pictures and Video is like putting a chunk of steel in a vice....

The problem is still how do you compress, already compressed data - you don't, you can only reduce the quality of that content? Which many sites allow you to choose between low / medium / high quality. But you are still talking about a lot of data and thus a lot of bandwidth to send that data.... it is just too much data for their current systems with very limited bandwidth. What we need is for Netflix to allow some kinda caching of data for a few hours....

Compression ISN'T the answer, increasing the bandwidth is what is needed. This is in the works for the Ground based systems for the Airlines, but it will take a while.

There is no picture/quality loss on compression. You get loss on transcoding. Transcoding isn't being done.

You can also compress already compressed data. Depending on the algorithm, you can make it bigger because there was no additional gain, or smaller because compression algorithm was done for speed, not size optimization. You'll see that in compression software, like 7zip. A phone would compress for speed and RAM it has, a quad core server with tons of ECC RAM could compress it more.

There is most definitely proxies and what not that do resize pictures on the fly to lower resolution. I doubt that happens for music or other content. It probably doesn't do it for all types of pictures.

I imagine that Internet satellite boxes utilize similar technology to reduce the ones and zero's that go across the medium.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

There is no picture/quality loss on compression. You get loss on transcoding. Transcoding isn't being done.

You can also compress already compressed data. Depending on the algorithm, you can make it bigger because there was no additional gain, or smaller because compression algorithm was done for speed, not size optimization. You'll see that in compression software, like 7zip. A phone would compress for speed and RAM it has, a quad core server with tons of ECC RAM could compress it more.

There is most definitely proxies and what not that do resize pictures on the fly to lower resolution. I doubt that happens for music or other content. It probably doesn't do it for all types of pictures.

I imagine that Internet satellite boxes utilize similar technology to reduce the ones and zero's that go across the medium.

Please go take a standard Video file like an MP4 and try compressing it using the maximum setting for compression over speed...

How much were you able to compress it?

[BCITMike]

Please go take a standard Video file like an MP4 and try compressing it using the maximum setting for compression over speed...

How much were you able to compress it?

Wtf is your point? I think you're not getting it.