1. danprown's Avatar
    An old article about Jim B.'s plan before it was scuttled by Mike and the board. I really liked this plan. Is there a chance Jim B will be back bidding for the NOC if there is a parts sale, or even return a la Steve Jobs?
    Exclusive: Former RIM boss sought strategy shift before he quit | Reuters
    Exclusive: Former RIM boss sought strategy shift before he quit

    Research In Motion (RIM) Co-Chief Executive Officer Jim Balsillie arrives at the annual general meeting of shareholders in Waterloo July 12, 2011. REUTERS/ Mike Cassese

    By Alastair Sharp

    TORONTO | Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:51am EDT

    (Reuters) - Former Research In Motion co-chief executive Jim Balsillie sought to reinvent the BlackBerry smartphone maker with a radical shift in strategy before he stepped down, two sources with knowledge of his plans said.

    Balsillie hoped to allow major wireless companies in North America and Europe to provide service for non-BlackBerry devices routed through RIM's proprietary network, a major break with the BlackBerry-only strategy pursued by RIM since its inception.

    The plan would have let the carriers use the RIM network to offer inexpensive data plans, limited to social media and instant messaging, to entice low-tier customers to upgrade from no-frills phones to smartphones.

    But the talks with carriers led to discord at the highest levels of the troubled Canadian company, and Balsillie resigned as a director soon after he stepped down as co-CEO. His former partner at the helm, Mike Lazaridis, still has an active role.

    The veto leaves RIM's focus squarely on a new generation of BlackBerry gadgets it promises will wow consumers. The devices will have to do just that, analysts say, to arrest the precipitous decline in market share suffered by RIM, the company that virtually invented mobile email more than a decade ago.

    Balsillie's plan may have heralded a broader strategic move by RIM to define its high-margin network services - which bring in around $1 billion a quarter - as a business that's distinct from building and marketing the BlackBerry. That hardware business may have lost money last year.

    Carriers may have seen value in the plan, which would have encouraged lower-value talk-and-text customers to upgrade to entry-level smartphone plans, with access limited to Twitter, Facebook, messaging and other social media platforms.

    The package would have included RIM's BlackBerry Messenger application, a powerful tool that has kept many BlackBerry users faithful even as flashier gadgets from Apple Inc and running Google Inc's Android software beckon.

    That said, the arrangement would have relied on RIM's private network, which crashed painfully last year, adding a layer of risk that some carriers might have shied away from.

    The RIM network is integrated with cellular networks across the world. Managed from a string of data centers, RIM encrypts and compresses massive amounts of data it then pushes out to BlackBerry devices. It charges carriers a monthly subscription fee per user for the service.

    The system allows the BlackBerry - and in theory other devices - to gobble up much less bandwidth. So routing non-BlackBerry traffic through RIM's servers would help carriers by easing strain on their networks.

    RIM took a first step toward establishing the network as a standalone operation late last year with its Mobile Fusion software that gives corporate and government customers the option of linking iPhones and Android devices to their existing BlackBerry management systems.

    But that does not offer outsiders the unique technology that encrypts data and pushes it out to the BlackBerry.

    CLOSE RELATIONSHIPS

    Balsillie developed close business relationships with hundreds of telecoms executives as RIM's chief salesman and dealmaker in the years of BlackBerry's most prodigious growth.

    He was talking to AT&T Inc and Verizon Communications Inc in the United States, and Vodafone Group Plc, Deutsche Telekom AG, Telefonica SA and France Telecom SA in Europe, as well as at least one major Canadian carrier, the sources said.

    RIM, which declined comment, already offers basic messaging and social media plans to BlackBerry users in many countries, something that has helped it drive growth, particularly in emerging markets.

    The plans restrict Internet access to a few popular sites and are typically cheaper than the smallest per-gigabyte plan available for other gadgets.

    RIM was well along the path, having developed software to deliver the service to users of the latest versions of Apple and Android operating systems. It had also studied the global potential of selling the service, one source said.

    But before that could happen, RIM's new CEO Thorsten Heins, backed by Lazaridis and the board, rejected Balsillie's initiative in favor of a focus on next-generation BlackBerry 10 phones due later in the year, two sources said.

    HARDWARE STRUGGLES

    Balsillie's plan might have resonated with investors and analysts who have urged RIM to sell its hardware business as a way of salvaging some value from the company, whose shares have shed 80 percent since February last year.

    RIM's BlackBerry devices have struggled to compete with Apple's iPhone and iPad and a slew of Android devices. RIM slashed more than $750 million from the value of its smartphone and tablet inventory in each of its last two quarters.

    The company likely lost money on hardware sales in the fiscal year just ended, an analyst said on Tuesday.

    Yet with the global smartphone boom showing no signs of abating, RIM could target a market six times larger than its existing BlackBerry base, former RBC Capital Market analyst Mike Abramsky wrote in a note last year advocating RIM split in two.

    Some 1.55 billion mobile phones were shipped worldwide in 2011, of which less than one third were smartphones, according to research firm IDC. Only about 51 million were BlackBerries.

    But smartphones will likely account for more than half of the 2.17 billion phones shipped in 2016, IDC said.

    Assuming that RIM could sell its services for even a tiny portion of the new smartphones, while retaining its existing subscribers, its services business would expand meaningfully.

    Verizon, Vodafone, France Telecom and Telefonica declined to comment. A Deutsche Telekom spokesman said the company was not aware of such a proposal.

    Verizon Wireless is a joint venture of Verizon and Vodafone, while Deutsche Telekom also owns T-Mobile USA. France Telecom, Telefonica and Vodafone all have operations in emerging economies where RIM has notched most of its recent growth.

    "OPEN TO ALL OPTIONS"

    Balsillie and Lazaridis stepped down from their shared CEO roles in late January, and gave up roles as co-chairman of the board.

    Lazaridis stayed on as vice-chair and head of a newly created innovation committee.

    The pair, who together built Lazaridis' 1985 start-up into a global business with $20 billion in sales last year, handed the CEO job to Heins, a German-born former Siemens AG executive.

    Heins initially said it would be wrong of RIM to focus on licensing its software or abandoning its integrated stance - where RIM ran its own software on its own phones, supported by its own network - and he certainly wasn't considering a sale.

    But in late March, while reporting RIM's first quarterly loss since 2005, Heins abruptly said he was reviewing options such as partnerships, joint ventures, licensing and other ways to leverage RIM's assets. He did not rule out a sale.

    "I did my own reality check on where the entire company really is," he said. "It is now very clear to me that substantial change is what RIM needs."

    Those comments don't rule out talks with carriers about a plan like the one Balsillie proposed.

    "There hasn't been any inconsistent 'back-and-forth' between Thorsten and carriers," a separate source familiar with the situation said, without confirming or denying that any talks had taken place.

    Balsillie cut his last professional tie to the company on the day Heins opened the door to all those options, stepping down as a board director. He remains one of RIM's largest shareholders, with a 5 percent stake.

    (Editing by Frank McGurty and Janet Guttsman)
    just_luc likes this.
    08-19-13 09:56 AM
  2. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    Huh... guess Jim B might have been on to something.... makes you think...
    08-19-13 10:19 AM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Why would a customer moving to a smartphone want one that limited their access to the Internet? Especially when inexpensive devices already exist with full access to the Internet (and plenty of options for tiers of mobile data)?
    08-19-13 10:58 AM
  4. FFR's Avatar
    They wouldn't
    08-19-13 04:13 PM
  5. ranzabar's Avatar
    Not a chance

    Posted via CB10
    08-19-13 04:30 PM
  6. mathking606's Avatar
    This could have worked. In NA plans are very expensive with the cheapest for data starting at about 60 dollars.
    just_luc likes this.
    08-19-13 09:49 PM
  7. just_luc's Avatar
    Why would a customer moving to a smartphone want one that limited their access to the Internet? Especially when inexpensive devices already exist with full access to the Internet (and plenty of options for tiers of mobile data)?
    We used to sell a lot of blackberry social plans to entry level smartphone customers, or to parents for their kids.. 10 bucks a month for the data add on instead of 25 but it didn't allow browsing, streaming, YouTube etc. Just BBM and other IM services (MSN, Gtalk, Facebook etc) and unlimited email.

    I could definitely see a market for that on other devices.

    Posted via CB10
    BoldPreza and mathking606 like this.
    08-19-13 10:21 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    We used to sell a lot of blackberry social plans to entry level smartphone customers, or to parents for their kids.
    I'm sure you did, but you don't anymore, right? Because the market has changed a lot in just the last 3 years, and hardly anyone would be satisfied with a "partial" smartphone experience today. Even if they did, there's nothing to stop the carriers from offering their own version of that; they really don't need BB to do it.
    08-19-13 11:42 PM
  9. just_luc's Avatar
    I'm sure you did, but you don't anymore, right? Because the market has changed a lot in just the last 3 years, and hardly anyone would be satisfied with a "partial" smartphone experience today. Even if they did, there's nothing to stop the carriers from offering their own version of that; they really don't need BB to do it.
    I should have qualified that statement. When I say "we used to" I meant when I used to run a chain of Wireless carrier stores. I don't do that anymore, but the store does still sell those plans.

    Again, parents footing the bill for young teens are definitely the target market. And that's still very much a thing. A 10 dollar data add on is much more attractive to a parent then 25, and if the kids don't like it they can get a job and pay their own bill.

    Posted via CB10
    08-20-13 12:53 AM
  10. danprown's Avatar
    Yes, this is what I was thinking. There will always be teenagers. And in between the lines is getting BBM cross platform. This is absolutely the best way to organically grow BBM.

    I should have qualified that statement. When I say "we used to" I meant when I used to run a chain of Wireless carrier stores. I don't do that anymore, but the store does still sell those plans.

    Again, parents footing the bill for young teens are definitely the target market. And that's still very much a thing. A 10 dollar data add on is much more attractive to a parent then 25, and if the kids don't like it they can get a job and pay their own bill.

    Posted via CB10
    just_luc likes this.
    08-20-13 10:43 AM
  11. iN8ter's Avatar
    I should have qualified that statement. When I say "we used to" I meant when I used to run a chain of Wireless carrier stores. I don't do that anymore, but the store does still sell those plans.

    Again, parents footing the bill for young teens are definitely the target market. And that's still very much a thing. A 10 dollar data add on is much more attractive to a parent then 25, and if the kids don't like it they can get a job and pay their own bill.

    Posted via CB10
    Doesn't matter. No one will want that since they can get all of that on a Feature Phone WITH data that at least allowed them to go to Facebook and do stuff. Feature Phones do have browsers, they're actually better than they used to be, and if you get something that runs Symbian (like some eSeries) many times you can put a (super cheap, unlimited data) Feature Phone plan on it and still have a decently capable smart device with apps and everything (like Offline Mapping, etc.). Kids these days don't just IM and email. That's for the 90s. They require - at the very least - a web browser to view the content that is shared to them through those IM networks or email. A device so crippled has little to no value to them.

    Additionally, unless everyone used the same IM networks things like Group Messaging just didn't work properly on those smartphones because they didn't properly support Group MMS (Up Until ~2013 only iOS and Windows Phone supported that reliably).

    At that point, you're better off just getting the kid an iPod touch and a dumb phone. Most would opt for that instead of a crippled blackberry or any other smartphone which was so limited in connectivity.

    A 13 year old kid cannot hold a job, so that statement has no place in this discussion, never mind it's just a ******** thing to say.

    In the US, parents would just get their children a Galaxy SII 4G ($199) or GS3 ($299) from Boost, Virgin, or wherever with a lot of data and unlimited everything for $45-60/month and call it a day - assuming they aren't on a Share Everything plan with Verizon/AT&T and don't just use that (where a GS3, Lumia 920/928, or iPhone 4S is cheap on contract).
    08-20-13 10:55 AM
  12. just_luc's Avatar
    LOL

    45-60 dollars a month for a child. Good greif.. IF a parent chooses to give their child a cell phone at all.. let alone a smartphone it's their prerogative whether or not that phone has a full data plan, a limited data plan or no data at all. Likewise with how much they spend on it. It's not something they are entitled to. No one said a 13 year old could hold down a job (although I personally had a lucrative paper route at that age) my point was simply that while they aren't yet paying the bill, they can be happy with whatever they get, or get nothing at all. It's the parents choice and theirs alone.
    08-20-13 11:17 AM
  13. danprown's Avatar
    I do not think you are understanding the value proposition of Jim B.'s plan correctly.

    What you are saying is basically a parent will not upgrade "social networking" plan for their child for 10 bucks per month (so they can BBM, facebook, etc.) but will jump 50+ more for unlimited everything, so no sense in the plan to begin with.

    One, many parents do not want their 13 year olds to download movies, watch youtube, porn, and what have you; Two, as pointed out, they may not be able to afford that. It may very well be that the market for these social plan is diminishing long term, if not short term. Sure, but if you can milk it, do it. Remember, we are talking about things in 2011 that were killed in early 2012.

    Secondly, the beauty of the plan is Jim B was providing a cost-cutting proposition to the carriers and it would have been up to the carriers how they planned to market or implement it, e.g. they could have used the NOC to route the traffic for all "social websites" independent of the the youtubes, etc., while still charging the consumers for unlimited etc. If anyone can invent a "government access fee" you can trust them to invent another way to pay BBRY their cost +profit for the compression, and charge the consumers handsomely for the pleasure. But the trojan horse would have BBM coming preloaded as part of the "social networking sites" from the carrierds and not as an app that people would have to install etc. Compare this to TH's plan to bring BBM cross platform now in Sept. 2013.

    Doesn't matter. No one will want that since they can get all of that on a Feature Phone WITH data that at least allowed them to go to Facebook and do stuff. Feature Phones do have browsers, they're actually better than they used to be, and if you get something that runs Symbian (like some eSeries) many times you can put a (super cheap, unlimited data) Feature Phone plan on it and still have a decently capable smart device with apps and everything (like Offline Mapping, etc.). Kids these days don't just IM and email. That's for the 90s. They require - at the very least - a web browser to view the content that is shared to them through those IM networks or email. A device so crippled has little to no value to them.

    Additionally, unless everyone used the same IM networks things like Group Messaging just didn't work properly on those smartphones because they didn't properly support Group MMS (Up Until ~2013 only iOS and Windows Phone supported that reliably).

    At that point, you're better off just getting the kid an iPod touch and a dumb phone. Most would opt for that instead of a crippled blackberry or any other smartphone which was so limited in connectivity.

    A 13 year old kid cannot hold a job, so that statement has no place in this discussion, never mind it's just a ******** thing to say.

    In the US, parents would just get their children a Galaxy SII 4G ($199) or GS3 ($299) from Boost, Virgin, or wherever with a lot of data and unlimited everything for $45-60/month and call it a day - assuming they aren't on a Share Everything plan with Verizon/AT&T and don't just use that (where a GS3, Lumia 920/928, or iPhone 4S is cheap on contract).
    just_luc likes this.
    08-20-13 12:28 PM
  14. iN8ter's Avatar
    LOL

    45-60 dollars a month for a child. Good greif.. IF a parent chooses to give their child a cell phone at all.. let alone a smartphone it's their prerogative whether or not that phone has a full data plan, a limited data plan or no data at all. Likewise with how much they spend on it. It's not something they are entitled to. No one said a 13 year old could hold down a job (although I personally had a lucrative paper route at that age) my point was simply that while they aren't yet paying the bill, they can be happy with whatever they get, or get nothing at all. It's the parents choice and theirs alone.
    It's $40 to add a phone to a Mobile Share/Share Everything account unless you already have a few phones on that line...

    What are you talking about? Your statements just seem pompous and ignorant.

    If they aren't happy, and don't use it, then what is the point of getting it anyways.

    Samsung has their flagships on Pre-Paid carriers. Even the iPhone is there. You can get at least a GS3 for less than a Q5 off-contract and a Virgin Mobile 2.5GB Data LImit (then throttled - no overages - with 1200 Anytime Minutes and Unlimited SMS/MMS is $45/mo. It uses the Sprint Network. That's where the child has to make a compromise.

    Sorry the quality of life here is higher than in some other places. $45 is enough to make sure you have a ton of ways to get in touch with your child and he/she can do something as simple as Google for Suicide Counseling or something on their device should that be necessary.

    A super limited $10 data plan sounds cute at first but it's all sorts of stupid.

    And I'm talking about the entire plan costing $45, not JUST the data plan.
    08-20-13 02:32 PM
  15. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Jim's off on a boat somewhere with BlackBerry being the very last thing on his mind.
    08-20-13 02:35 PM
  16. njblackberry's Avatar
    Sold all his shares. Doesn't own an NHL team. Kicking back and living large.
    08-20-13 02:44 PM
  17. iN8ter's Avatar
    I do not think you are understanding the value proposition of Jim B.'s plan correctly.

    What you are saying is basically a parent will not upgrade "social networking" plan for their child for 10 bucks per month (so they can BBM, facebook, etc.) but will jump 50+ more for unlimited everything, so no sense in the plan to begin with.

    One, many parents do not want their 13 year olds to download movies, watch youtube, porn, and what have you; Two, as pointed out, they may not be able to afford that. It may very well be that the market for these social plan is diminishing long term, if not short term. Sure, but if you can milk it, do it. Remember, we are talking about things in 2011 that were killed in early 2012.

    Secondly, the beauty of the plan is Jim B was providing a cost-cutting proposition to the carriers and it would have been up to the carriers how they planned to market or implement it, e.g. they could have used the NOC to route the traffic for all "social websites" independent of the the youtubes, etc., while still charging the consumers for unlimited etc. If anyone can invent a "government access fee" you can trust them to invent another way to pay BBRY their cost +profit for the compression, and charge the consumers handsomely for the pleasure. But the trojan horse would have BBM coming preloaded as part of the "social networking sites" from the carrierds and not as an app that people would have to install etc. Compare this to TH's plan to bring BBM cross platform now in Sept. 2013.
    https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=_nNzs7Zm also exists...

    It doesn't change what the child can do over WiFi, which completely invalidates this argument. It doesn't stop them from sexting, or sharing port over BBM (photos, videos), etc. None of that. All it does is limit what they can do OFF of WiFi on the Cellular network. What you wrote is no reason to rally behind a limited plan like that.

    As for affording it, then they shouldn't have a smartphone if they can't afford it. Smartphones kind of lose value without full data plans. With such limitations off-WiFi you're probably better off opting for a feature phone instead of the crippled blackberry. That's part of the reason people have grown to hate blackberries. These type sof limited data plans made possible by the NOC/BIS and corporate lockdowns via BES.

    The GS2 and the Unlmited Plan (2.5GB Data before throttling) is a much better value proposition.
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 08-20-13 at 03:04 PM.
    08-20-13 02:45 PM
  18. Huey Newton's Avatar
    Wasn't he the guy that didn't want to put a camera on a phone? Let's be honest how can you offer phones at a lower price that are not selling with the same old software that lagged way behind the competition.

    Posted via CB10
    08-22-13 07:59 AM
  19. ranzabar's Avatar
    Don't see Verizon or AT&T going for that in the USA. Developing countries maybe, but cutting into revenue to accommodate low enders, not a chance

    Posted via CB10
    08-22-13 09:07 AM
  20. ranzabar's Avatar
    Well, is there really a point to having BlackBerry at all? From a market standpoint, what does it bring to the table that sells sufficient product?

    Not being rhetorical, I really wonder why any company would bother against AppleDroid. Except Microsoft, since WP is just a part of their overall computing dominance strategy.

    Posted via CB10
    08-22-13 09:18 AM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Back in 2006 a very big company tried to create a comprehensive mobile phone service specifically developed to meet the needs of parents and their kids. With innovative features that, for the first time, allow parents to directly manage their family's wireless experience.

    • set spending allowances and track usage for voice minutes, text messaging, picture messaging and downloadable content, receiving alerts when allowances have been reached;
    • determine the hours of the day and days of the week when kids can use their phones;
    • program restricted and always-on phone numbers to manage with whom kids may communicate;
    • prioritize important family messages; and
    • locate kids' phones with GPS capabilities
    Their pricing at the time was reasonable, but didn't include data plans - very few people in 2006 were worried about data on 1G networks. But still, if The Walt Disney Company couldn't make it work back then....
    08-22-13 09:57 AM
  22. Huey Newton's Avatar
    I had a Disney phone lol they were 20 bucks a month

    Posted via CB10
    09-13-13 09:33 AM

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