[togarika]

Turning Loss Leaders Into Profits in Smartphones and Tablets | InvestorPlace

Maybe BlackBerry should learn from this. It can't have it both ways, profit from both hardware and software. One of the two has to be a loss leader. I suggest the hardware.

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!

[early2bed]

If your software is a loss leader then your hardware better be great - like Apple great. If your hardware is the lost leader on your software has to be great � like Google or Microsoft great.

Is Blackberry software really that great?

[Elephant_Canyon]

In order for that to work, software revenue has to be significantly greater than losses from hardware. Additionally, hardware sales have to have something that leads customers to buy or subscribe to software products in large quantities.

How do you propose Blackberry sets that up, utilizing its current product portfolio?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Unlike Amazon... BlackBerry is not a retail giant, they have no catalog of 10's of thousands of consumers goods to sell. And I'm not so sure Amazon's none Kindle Reader devices are actually going to survive. But yes for people who READ a lot, Amazon's vast library of digital content that is for sale, combined with their very good digital book reader are a good example of how hardware can be a loss leader for "content".

Unlike Apple.... BlackBerry has no Apps or Content to drive sales of hardware - not that I agree that Apple uses iTunes or the App Store as a loss leader for hardware, think they make money on everything they do.

Unlike Google... BlackBerry has no marketing machine to feed users eyeballs too. But again I don't think you can call Google's experiments with it's Nexus devices as a loss leader for marketing. It's more of a testing the waters for some long term goal they have in mind...

All BlackBerry has is their EMM and other security offerings... the problem is they would have to compete against other EMM that don't force users to use their hardware. And if that other hardware was better, BlackBerry would risk losing both sales.

[JeepBB]

Maybe BlackBerry should learn from this. It can't have it both ways, profit from both hardware and software. One of the two has to be a loss leader. I suggest the hardware.

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!

I'll be polite and call this "bargaining" rather than "desperately clutching at straws to keep BB10 alive".

As others have said, loss leaders only make sense if you have something else that makes tons of money. That isn't BB, so this makes no sense!

Acceptance is that way ->

Alternatively "Nothing" seems a more likely future for you... because BB10 is NOT coming back!

[anon(9742832)]

I think you are right, the sad part is they could turn around OS 10 very easy. But BlackBerry seems to like the easy out. Android was the easy shot, so what do they do when they do it?? Yup you guessed it nothing. No advertising no product placement.....nothing. I hate to say it Android by BlackBerry will go the same way as OS 10.....a slow and painful death.

Woof!

[StephanieMaks]

I think you are right, the sad part is they could turn around OS 10 very easy

What easy thing could they do now that they haven't already tried or done since 2013?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

You know.... Marketing/advertising their products, building the one devices they never built the Z50, or paying off developers....


It was DOA at launch, nothing within BlackBerry's power could have fixed it after that point....

[StawneyTW]

All BlackBerry has is their EMM and other security offerings... the problem is they would have to compete against other EMM that don't force users to use their hardware.

I agree with all your other statements except this one. BlackBerry's EMM has supported other devices for quite some time now. There's no requirement to use BlackBerry hardware in order to take advantage of BES12 (and they also own Good now). Sure, there might be some settings that only their hardware supports, but it can still manage iOS, Android, and even Windows Phone, in addition to BB10 devices.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I agree with all your other statements except this one. BlackBerry's EMM has supported other devices for quite some time now. There's no requirement to use BlackBerry hardware in order to take advantage of BES12 (and they also own Good now). Sure, there might be some settings that only their hardware supports, but it can still manage iOS, Android, and even Windows Phone, in addition to BB10 devices.

Didn't mean to imply that they couldn't... just that if the tried to use Hardware as a lose leader for BES/Good, that would cripple their ability to be competitive against the other EMM's that aren't having to support a companion hardware product.

It's bad timing... I think once the idea of an all in one solution - BlackBerry and BES was really all anyone considered. But with BlackBerry fumbling the ball and no one really sure what they are going to do - from repeated delays of BB10, to "we're for sale", to "might get out of hardware". I think over the last five years many have come to accept hardware and EMM as two different products that are interchangeable.

[togarika]

I'll be polite and call this "bargaining" rather than "desperately clutching at straws to keep BB10 alive".

As others have said, loss leaders only make sense if you have something else that makes tons of money. That isn't BB, so this makes no sense!

Acceptance is that way ->

Alternatively "Nothing" seems a more likely future for you... because BB10 is NOT coming back!

Chen has been working very hard to turn BlackBerry into a software company. Revenue from software and services is increasing and they target to increase it by a further 30 %. Thier focus is on software and they will need devices to showcase this.

I think everyone agrees BlackBerry phones at release have been overpriced. A reduction in prices to around break even point can increase sales of their devices. A n umber of people on this forum use a number of different devices and cheaper BlackBerrys will encourage purchases. This can work to BlackBerry's advantage by firstly warranting the need for BES12 in the enterprise sector, because BES12 can secure BlackBerry devices, android and ios. Other EMM will have issues on securing BlackBerry devices. It will also be an incentive for developers to develop for BB10 due to the increased number of devices.

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!

[ljfong]

There are two kinds of mistakes a business can make, strategic and tactical mistakes. Tactical mistake is nothing more than short term setbacks, but ultimately the business can recover from, however painful that may be. Strategic mistake is mistake with very long term consequence, for which the business usually cannot recover from. Recovery from strategic mistake is truly an exception rather the norm. BlackBerry 10 is BlackBerry the company's strategic mistake that costed them boat loads of money, reputation and ultimately their future as hardware maker.

[togarika]

There are two kinds of mistakes a business can make, strategic and tactical mistakes. Tactical mistake is nothing more than short term setbacks, but ultimately the business can recover from, however painful that may be. Strategic mistake is mistake with very long term consequence, for which the business usually cannot recover from. Recovery from strategic mistake is truly an exception rather the norm. BlackBerry 10 is BlackBerry the company's strategic mistake that costed them boat loads of money, reputation and ultimately their future as hardware maker.

BB10, strategic mistake? I don't think so. The mistake in the strategy was lack of promotional activities for the OS. Very few people outside this forum know that BB10 exist.

BB10 is in itself a technological innovation. They haven't even scratched the surface in terms of applications of this OS. BlackBerry management failed to promote it continuously and also to to harness its power and turn it into a profit.

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!

[JeepBB]

BB10, strategic mistake? I don't think so. The mistake in the strategy was lack of promotional activities for the OS. Very few people outside this forum know that BB10 exist.

Of course people outside this forum know BB10 exists. They just don't care!

All but 0.2% of the phone-buying public are perfectly content with Apple/Android. They have no desire to switch from what they currently have to an ecosystem-less OS that is being abandoned even by the company that created it!

How do you "promote" an OS with no apps?

I realise that BB marketing sucks (always has, always will)... but they had to have something to work with! The Hub? Peek & Flow? ... How far do you think you can get with those things?

BB10 is in itself a technological innovation. They haven't even scratched the surface in terms of applications of this OS. BlackBerry management failed to promote it continuously and also to to harness its power and turn it into a profit.

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!

The highlighted part I agree with. Once it became clear to BlackBerry management that BB10 was a turkey. A commercial failure of epic proportions that would never succeed... they pretty much stopped promoting it seriously, and just went through the motions.

The expression is "flogging a dead horse won't make it go faster".

So, opting for "Nothing!" then?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Chen has been working very hard to turn BlackBerry into a software company. Revenue from software and services is increasing and they target to increase it by a further 30 %. Thier focus is on software and they will need devices to showcase this.

I think everyone agrees BlackBerry phones at release have been overpriced. A reduction in prices to around break even point can increase sales of their devices. A n umber of people on this forum use a number of different devices and cheaper BlackBerrys will encourage purchases. This can work to BlackBerry's advantage by firstly warranting the need for BES12 in the enterprise sector, because BES12 can secure BlackBerry devices, android and ios. Other EMM will have issues on securing BlackBerry devices. It will also be an incentive for developers to develop for BB10 due to the increased number of devices.

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!

There is a lot more "COST" besides the actual components and the manufacturing.... Granted there is still a lot of BB10 legacy stuff mudding the waters. But even at $700, the PRIV didn't make BlackBerry any money.

BB10 increased numbers and incentive for developers... Chen's has moved on, you need to also.

[anon(9742832)]

simple update run time to allow play store................

[thurask]

simple update run time to allow play store................

Plus some good lawyers.

[Uzi]

simple update run time to allow play store................

Yes it's called priv by BlackBerry......

[JulesDB]

Yes it's called priv by BlackBerry......

Yet it's name is disappointing... mostly the "by BlackBerry" part...

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

Yet it's name is disappointing... mostly the "by BlackBerry" part...

Yeah, Blackberry should just get out of the phone hardware business.

[JeepBB]

Yeah, Blackberry should just get out of the phone hardware business.

Yeah, and "soon" I reckon.

[huungryshark]

Customers getting screwed over and over again by blackberry.

Playbook - BlackBerry 10 - and most likely the saga continues with the Priv which is running the google.

Maybe we'll see one or two medicore overpriced android devices flop (Z3 and Leap Story told again) and that was it.

The loser at the end is once again the customer.






Posted via CB10

[web99]

Customers getting screwed over and over again by blackberry.

Playbook - BlackBerry 10 - and most likely the saga continues with the Priv which is running the google.

Maybe we'll see one or two medicore overpriced android devices flop (Z3 and Leap Story told again) and that was it.

The loser at the end is once again the customer.



Posted via CB10

I don't think so. Customers are only guaranteed for the warranty on any device that they purchase.

And for those who buy devices, it should be bought for what it can do now, not what it can potentially do in the future. The ones who purchased the PlayBook, knew it's capabilities compared to the iPad and Android tablets, but still chose to buy it.

For those, including myself who owns the Priv, it doesn't matter what other Android device BlackBerry comes up with. If we decide it is not for us, we have the ability to upgrade to any other Android device and have the apps, contacts and other information transfer over without missing a beat.

Posted via my BlackBerry Priv

[Prem WatsApp]

Customers getting screwed over and over again by blackberry.

Playbook - BlackBerry 10 - and most likely the saga continues with the Priv which is running the google.

Maybe we'll see one or two medicore overpriced android devices flop (Z3 and Leap Story told again) and that was it.

The loser at the end is once again the customer.

Posted via CB10

I don't think the described scenario is gonna happen that quickly. Major loss of credibility will also affect software sales and long-term credibility in this sector, which might even be more trust-based than hardware... :-)


�   There's a Crack in the Berry right now...   �

[togarika]

BB10 increased numbers and incentive for developers... Chen's has moved on, you need to also.

Chen moving own is a mistake from my perspective. The hardware unit can still work to BlackBerry's advantage if put to good use. Not enough promotion we done for BB10 and it suffered for it. BB10 still has a lot of room for development and therefore the potential to add shareholder value. Ditching it now because they failed to promote it will be a very big mistake.

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!