1. chrysaurora's Avatar
    I think only way to get people (including enterprises/companies) buy or adopt BlackBerry is by getting a lot of apps.

    Sure, you may say, enterprise users don't care about apps. But that's not true. All enterprise users are ALSO consumers (although all consumers are not enterprise users).

    The whole BYOD trend started because employees (also regular consumers) told their employers that they want to use their PERSONAL device (iPhone/Android) because the company issued device (usually a BlackBerry) is slow and has no apps.

    So, I was thinking: how much would it cost BlackBerry to give away 20M BlackBerry devices at cost? At $275/device - let's say BlackBerry is able to sell 1M Leap devices. I am guessing Leap costs around $125 to manufacture? So, (1M leap devices x $275) - ($125 x 1M) = $150M profit; and full year profit = $600M.

    1. what if BlackBerry gave away 20M leaps at cost each? It'd basically mean BlackBerry is foregoing $600M in profit for the whole year. Let's think of it as ad-spend.

    2. At the same time, heavily advertise in developed countries US/Canada/EU - TV and radio channels. Say, another $300M for the year.

    I think if BlackBerry did above two things:

    1. Get additional 20 M BlackBerry 10 OS based devices out in the wild in people's hand. When these 20 M users start using their phones, it'd start showing up in analytics, browser stats and so on. For eg: if you visit a bank site, bank usually tracks what device you used to visit their site. And if a lot of people are using a particular device, bank would optimize their site for THAT device.

    2. It'd increase general awareness. People would know there is a new and IMPROVED BlackBerry in town. It's not the same old slow device anymore.
    -> Some of these people, watching advertisements, are also employees of big companies with influence over what device their company purchases
    -> Some of these people, watching advertisements, are also app-developers or work for companies that produce apps (eg: employees of NetFlix, Instagram etc).

    I think this will lead to:

    1. With 20M devices out there in the wild showing increasing device penetration in stats/analytics PLUS visible advertising seen by developers would make developers curious. Lot of developers would start evaluating cost-benefit of developing for BB. At first, they might simply port-over their Android app and make sure it works on BB 10 (by removing dependency on Google Services) and later might start developing full native apps.

    As apps start coming to BlackBerry, BlackBerry can continue to incorporate this in their ad-campaigns.

    2. With app developers coming to BlackBerry, BlackBerry will start to gain better reviews. And when a company issues a BlackBerry, the employee would not be so resistant to it. And would not insist on iPhone or Android.

    Right now, it seems employees are generally so resistant to BlackBerry devices (issued by their companies) simply because they feel, if they accept a BlackBerry device, they'd lose out on lot of day-to-day things they do on their phones (eg: banking, entertainment , google apps etc). So, they go back to their IT department and request a non-BlackBerry device. If the company refuses, they say, ok, I have my own device can you activate it?

    So, the company thinks.. ok, fine, let me see what I can do. Then the company goes out and buys Mobile Iron, Air Watch, Good Technologies or something (because the company thinks BBRY is going out of business, BES starts with negative points in evaluation score) and activates employee's personal (non BBRY) device on company network.
    03-31-15 01:19 AM
  2. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I think only way to get people (including enterprises/companies) buy or adopt BlackBerry is by getting a lot of apps.

    Sure, you may say, enterprise users don't care about apps. But that's not true. All enterprise users are ALSO consumers (although all consumers are not enterprise users).

    The whole BYOD trend started because employees (also regular consumers) told their employers that they want to use their PERSONAL device (iPhone/Android) because the company issued device (usually a BlackBerry) is slow and has no apps.

    So, I was thinking: how much would it cost BlackBerry to give away 20M BlackBerry devices at cost? At $275/device - let's say BlackBerry is able to sell 1M Leap devices. I am guessing Leap costs around $125 to manufacture? So, (1M leap devices x $275) - ($125 x 1M) = $150M profit; and full year profit = $600M.

    1. what if BlackBerry gave away 20M leaps at cost each? It'd basically mean BlackBerry is foregoing $600M in profit for the whole year. Let's think of it as ad-spend.

    2. At the same time, heavily advertise in developed countries US/Canada/EU - TV and radio channels. Say, another $300M for the year.

    I think if BlackBerry did above two things:

    1. Get additional 20 M BlackBerry 10 OS based devices out in the wild in people's hand. When these 20 M users start using their phones, it'd start showing up in analytics, browser stats and so on. For eg: if you visit a bank site, bank usually tracks what device you used to visit their site. And if a lot of people are using a particular device, bank would optimize their site for THAT device.

    2. It'd increase general awareness. People would know there is a new and IMPROVED BlackBerry in town. It's not the same old slow device anymore.
    -> Some of these people, watching advertisements, are also employees of big companies with influence over what device their company purchases
    -> Some of these people, watching advertisements, are also app-developers or work for companies that produce apps (eg: employees of NetFlix, Instagram etc).

    I think this will lead to:

    1. With 20M devices out there in the wild showing increasing device penetration in stats/analytics PLUS visible advertising seen by developers would make developers curious. Lot of developers would start evaluating cost-benefit of developing for BB. At first, they might simply port-over their Android app and make sure it works on BB 10 (by removing dependency on Google Services) and later might start developing full native apps.

    As apps start coming to BlackBerry, BlackBerry can continue to incorporate this in their ad-campaigns.

    2. With app developers coming to BlackBerry, BlackBerry will start to gain better reviews. And when a company issues a BlackBerry, the employee would not be so resistant to it. And would not insist on iPhone or Android.

    Right now, it seems employees are generally so resistant to BlackBerry devices (issued by their companies) simply because they feel, if they accept a BlackBerry device, they'd lose out on lot of day-to-day things they do on their phones (eg: banking, entertainment , google apps etc). So, they go back to their IT department and request a non-BlackBerry device. If the company refuses, they say, ok, I have my own device can you activate it?

    So, the company thinks.. ok, fine, let me see what I can do. Then the company goes out and buys Mobile Iron, Air Watch, Good Technologies or something (because the company thinks BBRY is going out of business, BES starts with negative points in evaluation score) and activates employee's personal (non BBRY) device on company network.
    I agree with your biggest point: "business folks" are consumers, and in some cases, are regular consumers more than they are business folks.

    I believe that gets lost here sometimes in the rush to believe we have the market cornered on getting stuff done because we use BB devices.

    Business is changing too. In the last day or so, someone mentioned how he/she couldn't use BB10 for business because it didn't allow for him/her to manage social network accounts. Very valid concern, IMHO, and it reflects newer way of conducting business. Not that new, but hey.

    Consumer or enterprise, BBRY needs to figure out how to figure out the ecosystem problem if it wants to move hardware.
    MikeX74 and nt300 like this.
    03-31-15 01:57 AM
  3. pbfan's Avatar
    Need to have return/home/menu buttons to help reduce code changes for porting to BB devices. This will also help new BB users.
    03-31-15 06:41 AM
  4. moosbb's Avatar
    Need to have return/home/menu buttons to help reduce code changes for porting to BB devices. This will also help new BB users.
    BB10 don't need this!!!! That's Blackberry 10 specific and I hope it still remain as is.

    Posted via CB10
    03-31-15 07:00 AM
  5. early2bed's Avatar
    If the hardware is only marginally profitable then isn't Blackberry already selling their devices pretty much at cost? I mean, it's not like the company is realizing a ton of profit in hardware.
    03-31-15 07:05 AM
  6. birdman_38's Avatar
    Maybe I missed something... give away 20 million devices at cost to whom?
    anon(9188202) likes this.
    03-31-15 07:13 AM
  7. birdman_38's Avatar
    $300 million in advertising is unrealistic considering they only spent $90 million in the US for BB10 launch in 2013.
    03-31-15 07:14 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    We had 80 million BlackBerry users in 2011. Now we have about 40-45 million, of which less than 15 million are BB10. In a year from now, with 20 million more Leaps (as you suggest), you'd only be replacing the expected BB7 losses over roughly the same period.

    The revenues will not come from device sales. Enterprise service revenues are the solution, and for that, it doesn't matter what device people own.

    They have to focus. You can't go "all in" on two fundamentally different strategies.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.281
    03-31-15 07:19 AM
  9. gvs1341's Avatar
    You've got some rather good strategies, but, ahem, the facts from the next nearest competitor suggest otherwise...

    1. Nokia - Microsoft did actually try the sell at cost idea; and still are - trying to gain market share/ traction.

    2. Windows App Store purportedly had/ has more big name apps than BB10.

    Still, it took a lot more than $900M for WP to get the current quite underwhelming results.

     Q5 / Z30
    anon(9188202) and TGR1 like this.
    03-31-15 08:02 AM
  10. EchoTango's Avatar
    What looks logical on paper may not yield the results you want.

    This is the old "loss leader" strategy that says in essence, get my product now at a bargain basement price and I'll upsell you other products on the back end. Sounds reasonable. However, what happens is that the "give away" product's perceived value will never return to it's normal cost + profit price and will effect the device handset margins for years to come, if not forever. This would also create such a price disparity across all the other product lines, you wouldn't be able to sell regularly price items. Also, if you get a any device for a really cheap price, you lose respect for the product and really don't care what happens to it because you didn't pay much for it in the first place. Your brand loyalty would go out the window.

    Given, that hardware is currently Blackberry's biggest source of revenue, this move would truly put them in the ditch and clearly has a sense of desperation about it.
    nglfmark, gvs1341, TGR1 and 3 others like this.
    03-31-15 08:54 AM
  11. chrysaurora's Avatar
    What looks logical on paper may not yield the results you want.

    This is the old "loss leader" strategy that says in essence, get my product now at a bargain basement price and I'll upsell you other products on the back end. Sounds reasonable. However, what happens is that the "give away" product's perceived value will never return to it's normal cost + profit price and will effect the device handset margins for years to come, if not forever. This would also create such a price disparity across all the other product lines, you wouldn't be able to sell regularly price items. Also, if you get a any device for a really cheap price, you lose respect for the product and really don't care what happens to it because you didn't pay much for it in the first place. Your brand loyalty would go out the window.

    Given, that hardware is currently Blackberry's biggest source of revenue, this move would truly put them in the ditch and clearly has a sense of desperation about it.
    Good point. But without pushing out devices, we are not going to get apps. Without apps, consumers won't buy and employees will be resistant to company issued BlackBerry.

    So, it's not completely analogous to loss-leader strategy used by various stores. To get more apps, you need more devices out in the wild. App developers will be attracted to growing penetration of BB10 OS and invest time/money in developing for BB 10.

    Windows Phone tried selling WP at cost - but WP is not already in enterprise. BlackBerry is. Companies issue BlackBerry to their employees but employees cringe, cry, whine, complain because BlackBerry doesn't have apps. If it did, employees would be ok with it.

    So, it's not completely analogous to strategy used by Nokia/Windows Phone.


    03-31-15 10:34 AM
  12. pbfan's Avatar
    BB10 don't need this!!!! That's Blackberry 10 specific and I hope it still remain as is.

    Posted via CB10
    This is the worst part of BB10 spec. It requires two steps to close an application. In addition, minimizing an application by swiping-up may not work correctly for some applications like the built-in camera.
    03-31-15 10:47 AM
  13. birdman_38's Avatar
    Maybe I missed something... give away 20 million devices at cost to whom?
    Still waiting for an answer to this question, OP.
    TGR1 and nick13b like this.
    03-31-15 10:52 AM
  14. ljfong's Avatar
    BlackBerry does not have to actually be so desperate and start giving out handsets for free. Just price the handsets appropriately but I like the rest of OP's post. This reminds me of firesale HP did for the TouchPad (in terms of fail power, this one rivals the PlayBook), and the TouchPad sold like hotcakes at firesale prices. They were not free, mind you, you still had to pay to get one, but, at the psychological price point that people will simply pay to get once because it was so cheap. Breaking a self-perpetuating negative cycle is extremely hard for any business.
    03-31-15 11:40 AM
  15. nt300's Avatar
    I agree with your biggest point: "business folks" are consumers, and in some cases, are regular consumers more than they are business folks.

    I believe that gets lost here sometimes in the rush to believe we have the market cornered on getting stuff done because we use BB devices.

    Business is changing too. In the last day or so, someone mentioned how he/she couldn't use BB10 for business because it didn't allow for him/her to manage social network accounts. Very valid concern, IMHO, and it reflects newer way of conducting business. Not that new, but hey.

    Consumer or enterprise, BBRY needs to figure out how to figure out the ecosystem problem if it wants to move hardware.
    03-31-15 12:43 PM
  16. nt300's Avatar
    I agree with your biggest point: "business folks" are consumers, and in some cases, are regular consumers more than they are business folks.

    I believe that gets lost here sometimes in the rush to believe we have the market cornered on getting stuff done because we use BB devices.

    Business is changing too. In the last day or so, someone mentioned how he/she couldn't use BB10 for business because it didn't allow for him/her to manage social network accounts. Very valid concern, IMHO, and it reflects newer way of conducting business. Not that new, but hey.

    Consumer or enterprise, BBRY needs to figure out how to figure out the ecosystem problem if it wants to move hardware.
    Also those business folk also have family and friends that also have family and friends. It's a chain reaction. What I believe John Chen is doing is coming up with BB10 devices that will cater to the business class but also be more than enough for the consumer class. Such as the Passport and Classic. For example, and how about the Slider? That seems more geared toward the Consumer Class IMO. Especially if it comes with high end hardware and a Touch Capacitive Keyboard like the Passport but as a 4 row instead of a 3.
    https://n4bb.com/blackberry-10-slide...bled-keyboard/
    03-31-15 12:46 PM
  17. imz's Avatar
    Developers didn't look at Android market share before developing for it when it first started, they simply found the OS fun, the hardware mainly thanks to Samsung gave them a great playground with lots of features.

    Majority of the apps initially were impractical but users would show their friends and say look how cool is this, I can scroll with my eyes, the phone pauses video when I look away, controlling the TV with the IR blaster etc etc, these are features and apps that aren't used but clearly demonstrate a forward thinking platform that appears ahead of its time.

    At one point BlackBerry had 80 million users, that was not enough to get devs on board, we now have way less users, definitely won't see any devs coming across anytime soon.

    The OS needs to be positioned to wet the appetite of developers, the consumers will come, the same consumers will take their devices into the business world (byod), this whole focus on enterprise doesn't swing well with me.

    Posted via CB10
    nick13b likes this.
    03-31-15 01:06 PM
  18. djtim's Avatar
    This is very true. I gave the Passport a shot. I love the physical keyboard. Only reason why I loved using a Blackberry. I too realized that it's time to move on. At any given time my speed is just as fast on a virtual keyboard vs a physical keyboard. This will be my last blackberry device. I also had a z10, q10 z30 and a bold.
    03-31-15 01:17 PM
  19. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Also those business folk also have family and friends that also have family and friends. It's a chain reaction. What I believe John Chen is doing is coming up with BB10 devices that will cater to the business class but also be more than enough for the consumer class. Such as the Passport and Classic. For example, and how about the Slider? That seems more geared toward the Consumer Class IMO. Especially if it comes with high end hardware and a Touch Capacitive Keyboard like the Passport but as a 4 row instead of a 3.
    https://n4bb.com/blackberry-10-slide...bled-keyboard/
    I don't disagree.

    I think JC is heading his bets, which isn't a bad strategy.
    03-31-15 01:27 PM
  20. abwan11's Avatar
    They should focus on developing BBM function and incorporate more features into it, get development started on and including (if possible) a new experience through BBM, animated gif stickers, some light game play through messages, BBM music share and BBM money.

    Get your sh*t together waterloo or I'll just do it myself.


    Posted via CB10
    03-31-15 02:14 PM
  21. tufcustomer's Avatar
    This is the worst part of BB10 spec. It requires two steps to close an application. In addition, minimizing an application by swiping-up may not work correctly for some applications like the built-in camera.
    Except when your press a home button it's not closed either. It's still running in the background albeit paused.

    Posted via CB10
    03-31-15 02:16 PM
  22. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I'd like to remark that Microsoft practically "gives" away Windows Phone from a price standpoint and the situation, while better than Blackberry, is not much improved. Microsoft literally gave away Windows Phones in the "Smoked by Windows Phone" Challenge, many of which were high end at the time, and many recipients still did not keep them.

    Consumers in the US (or other developed nations) won't be salivating over the LEAP when much better phones can be had for just 200 USD off contract. The type of individual who would use a free/low cost phone aren't the demographic that would be coveted by app developers, anyway.

    If you could solve all your smartphone marketshare problems by throwing money at it, Microsoft would have done it already. Heck, Microsoft bought Nokia for billions of dollars. There's no doubt in my mind Microsoft would happily cough up a couple billion dollars for 10% US marketshare.
    03-31-15 02:30 PM
  23. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    We had 80 million BlackBerry users in 2011. Now we have about 40-45 million, of which less than 15 million are BB10. In a year from now, with 20 million more Leaps (as you suggest), you'd only be replacing the expected BB7 losses over roughly the same period.

    The revenues will not come from device sales. Enterprise service revenues are the solution, and for that, it doesn't matter what device people own.

    They have to focus. You can't go "all in" on two fundamentally different strategies.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.281
    Actually, replacing BBOS users with BB10 would be a game-changer. If all of those users could be retained that would get a ton of attention from developers.

    That's BlackBerry's biggest problem now, actually. BBOS is a dead OS. Nobody is developing for it anymore, because we all know there will be no further devices and it's essentially EOL. So really, those users aren't doing BlackBerry much good. In some ways they're weighing the company down.

    BB10 is an excellent OS, but between the damage BlackBerry did to their own reputation and the low initial sales numbers, the platform just isn't attractive to developers now.

    If they could pick up 20 million users overnight it would change the equation. But just handing out phones won't do it.



    Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64
    03-31-15 02:30 PM
  24. chopachain's Avatar
    I always believed and still do believe that if more people could get a BB into their hands, they would see how awesome BB10 is. There is something way more sinister happening to BB. I see a lot of apps in 10.3.2 that people on other platforms would have to download. I can see what BB is trying to do here. Take any other country where BB has a minimal userbase. There is none of that disproportionate abject hate and bashing of BB taking place. Sadly its not just about the apps. Other than that i agree with the OP. Sell all the phones at one dollar profit. Build the userbase.
    03-31-15 02:35 PM
  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    The Leap is a new lower-priced phone that's meant for the volume market. Hopefully they can find a way to market it so that it can be at least a modest hit.

    Get BB10 to 20-30 million users, and demonstrate sustainable growth, and the developers will come back.

    Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64
    03-31-15 02:48 PM
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