[app_Developer]

Other than a few gadget geeks, does anyone really want Google to know when you come and go when a five dollar timer will also turn your lights on and off? You don't need an Android app to raise and lower the temperature in your home - old school programmable thermostats work just fine.

So I don't really enjoy programming multiple timers individually. I've built a very crude version of presence detection using my family's phones and it really is nice to control the states of our homes based on who is where. We don't all come and go at the same time, so fixed timers really don't work for my family at least.

Now I can look at my app and I know what's on, what's off. I know the garage doors are all closed. I know my son is not home yet. I know my car is on its tender. I know the temp is elevated because no one is home. I can change that from here if I like, etc.

Having google or apple do this makes it more accessible to people who don't want to (or can't) roll their own solutions to this.

I think most people don't worry so much about the privacy aspects. Maybe they worry too little, but most people I know just look at Google Now, for example, and just love what it does for them.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

[dbq10]

The whole need for timers really goes back to a time when it was expensive to leave the lights on. Remember parents saying "we don't own the power company"? With newer LED and CFL technology it's one less concern.

[Hende Nicolas]

Well, we have waited a while to see how the enterprise first play would pan out, and we are still waiting. Ages ago, it was about waiting for BES10 to come out. That would be the driver we needed. Then it was BES12. BES12 was the big deal what would drive the stock upwards. Now it's...what?

Just imagine if BlackBerry had spent $300 million or so on tactical consumer advertising and marketing over the past year and a half. You wouldn't want to go wild, but seeing as they've got a massive PR problem, it might have been a start. I would have gone for a BBM advertising push, and a big push for the Classic and Passport, the Passport especially.

Yes, there is the app gap. Yes, money is tight...but they also would have sold more phones, and the BBM user base would be larger. Even an increase of market share from 1% to 3% would have been well worth it. Instead, BlackBerry have been marketing 'downstream' in the East, when - no offence to the East - trends and fashions start in the Western epicentres and radiate outwards.

You go back in time, you spend $300 million, and you hit London, New York, Toronto, etc hard. What happens? It's impossible to tell how many phones you'd sell exactly, but you could absolutely guarantee that almost everyone that commutes to work in the major cities knows that BlackBerry 10 exists and is different from the old BlackBerrys they remember, and you absolutely guarantee that a whole lot more people download BBM.

Then, you get the knock on effect of positive news regarding an increase in sales, even if it's a small one. You start to look more like a turnaround, more like a winner.

OR...you sit on your hands and give cheeky smiles at the camera and talk about secret stuff you've got up your sleeve...Chen...

Posted via CB10

[Hende Nicolas]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-a...its-1-billion/

It makes a difference, this advertising thing. It's not an optional 'add-on' to running a business.

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/apples-a...its-1-billion/

It makes a difference, this advertising thing. It's not an optional 'add-on' to running a business.

Posted via CB10

The question is how much should BB spend? Apple's budget may be $1B, but that's actually a very small percentage of their revenue.

If you apply a similar percentage to BB revenue, that may be more than they are even spending now.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Apple's ad budget hits $1 billion - CBS News

It makes a difference, this advertising thing. It's not an optional 'add-on' to running a business.

Posted via CB10

. However, measured as a percentage of Apple's massive revenue, the numbers are modest: 8 percent of revenue in FY2010, 7 percent in FY2011 and 6 percent in FY2012. Even as expenses increase, Apple keeps a tight rein on how much of the company's money goes out the door.

It does make a difference.... But so does having the product that your customers want to begin with.

I think too many think BlackBerry gave up on consumers because the wanted too. They retreated to enterprise because they faced the fact that they had a product that didn't meet the needs of end users. Which they learned from all of the returns during the launch, which also accounted for all the carrier sales people wanting to make sure people "really" wanted a BB10 device.

Granted that today BB10 is much more mature and stable, and with the addition of Amazon there are a lot more apps. And for the hobbyist there are even more apps available via SNAP and Cobalt's fixes. But sadly, I don't think even that is enough for the average consumer - and it's not like BB can advertise these "hacks" into Google Play.

[Hende Nicolas]

It does make a difference.... But so does having the product that your customers want to begin with.

I think too many think BlackBerry gave up on consumers because the wanted too. They retreated to enterprise because they faced the fact that they had a product that didn't meet the needs of end users. Which they learned from all of the returns during the launch, which also accounted for all the carrier sales people wanting to make sure people "really" wanted a BB10 device.

Granted that today BB10 is much more mature and stable, and with the addition of Amazon there are a lot more apps. And for the hobbyist there are even more apps available via SNAP and Cobalt's fixes. But sadly, I don't think even that is enough for the average consumer - and it's not like BB can advertise these "hacks" into Google Play.

This is true. For a while, they didn't have the product. They didn't have the apps. That's why they needed to get out of the blocks with the Z10 by going aggressively for user base over profit. Instead, they launched a �500+ Z10...virtually the same price as the iPhone 5. That was an act of severe incompetence. They should have put the thing out cheap enough to people to forgive the app gap for the time being. At �350 on launch, the Z10, with some half decent marketing, would have sold in far greater numbers, and they would have gained not only Whatsapp but at least a few other major apps. They needed to build momentum, and forget about huge profits for the first round of BlackBerry 10 phones. The Z10 and Q10 should have been released together, and the Q5 should never have been made. It's a piece of garbage.

Still, ignoring the somewhat distant past, and skipping over the completely neglected Z30, the Classic and Passport needed advertising regardless of whether the app gap was solved. As I suggested above, advertising isn't optional. It's not just about sales: it's about brand awareness and perception and image.

But you're right: releasing some cracking devices is also important.

Posted via CB10

[Hende Nicolas]

The question is how much should BB spend? Apple's budget may be $1B, but that's actually a very small percentage of their revenue.

If you apply a similar percentage to BB revenue, that may be more than they are even spending now.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I think the isn't how much BlackBerry SHOULD spend, so much as how much BlackBerry HAVE TO spend. There is a very significant difference there, I think. They can't just took at Apple and work out how much they are spending in relation to their profits.

Unless, of course, the plan is a controlled crash landing, with Chen tidying up the company and putting it on the block. Some people like that idea, but it's not a winning attitude. It's the game plan of a professional loser.

But to finish on topic...

Forget the Apple advertising ratio. BlackBerry could do a simple thing. Go out in the street and ask people whether they have head of BlackBerry 10. Ask if they know that their new phones - forget it: as whether they even know their new phones exist. It's amazing how many people still haven't heard of BlackBerry 10 three years later.

That's the measure of how much you need to spend. You need to spend at least enough to let potential consumers know you exist. That's the bare minimum. Otherwise, you may as well go home and watch your stock price and figures go downhill skiing.

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

I think the isn't how much BlackBerry SHOULD spend, so much as how much BlackBerry HAVE TO spend. There is a very significant difference there, I think.

So to that don't we also have to add how much BB can AFFORD to spend? They can't, for example, spend $250MM on advertising. That would be incredible for a company with only $2.5B in revenue and barely breaking even as it is.

It's not a losing mentality to understand which battles to invest in. Chen has already said he will take more money away from hardware and invest it instead in the products that he believes in. Selling hardware to consumers is not something that he seems interested in, and I understand why. It's not a business where BB can do well at all. So why not invest what resources they do have in areas where they hope to be more successful?

[Hende Nicolas]

So to that don't we also have to add how much BB can AFFORD to spend? They can't, for example, spend $250MM on advertising. That would be incredible for a company with only $2.5B in revenue and barely breaking even as it is.

It's not a losing mentality to understand which battles to invest in. Chen has already said he will take more money away from hardware and invest it instead in the products that he believes in. Selling hardware to consumers is not something that he seems interested in, and I understand why. It's not a business where BB can do well at all. So why not invest what resources they do have in areas where they hope to be more successful?

Well, you certainly agree with him. Respectfully, I think they CAN sell devices, and need to desperately in order to help sale across all parts of the business. We will have to wait and see, of course, but the path he has decided to take has not been that amazingly fruitful yet. Perhaps it will be in the future, but it certainly isn't a proven success. The marketing of devices isn't just about selling them, though. It's about brand awareness and confidence in general. What IS happening is that they are releasing devices that are failing and making them look hopeless. The Passport is a great device and would have sold well. I can't put an exact number on how much they should have spent, but they have $3 billion in cash sitting around. Using a chunk of that to kick start the recovery properly, and look like a player instead of a chronic loser would be a good idea in my view. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. Time will tell, but it certainly isn't telling a great story at the moment.

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

Well, you certainly agree with him. Respectfully, I think they CAN sell devices, and need to desperately in order to help sale across all parts of the business. We will have to wait and see, of course, but the path he has decided to take has not been that amazingly fruitful yet.

I agree that it isn't clear that Chen's strategy will work. It has its own set of risks. We shall see!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Bbnivende]

Well, you certainly agree with him. Respectfully, I think they CAN sell devices, and need to desperately in order to help sale across all parts of the business. We will have to wait and see, of course, but the path he has decided to take has not been that amazingly fruitful yet. Perhaps it will be in the future, but it certainly isn't a proven success. The marketing of devices isn't just about selling them, though. It's about brand awareness and confidence in general. What IS happening is that they are releasing devices that are failing and making them look hopeless. The Passport is a great device and would have sold well. I can't put an exact number on how much they should have spent, but they have $3 billion in cash sitting around. Using a chunk of that to kick start the recovery properly, and look like a player instead of a chronic loser would be a good idea in my view. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. Time will tell, but it certainly isn't telling a great story at the moment.

Posted via CB10

No one I know want to buy a PKB phone. Do you know any one that does?

The Passport may be the best BlackBerry ever but it is a tad too wide and it has a PKB. Sadly, it might make a really nice Tablet if it was larger. No amount of advertising will help the sales of the Classic or Passport. Those who want them will buy them.


Posted via CB10

[Hende Nicolas]

No one I know want to buy a PKB phone. Do you know any one that does?

The Passport may be the best BlackBerry ever but it is a tad too wide and it has a PKB. Sadly, it might make a really nice Tablet if it was larger. No amount of advertising will help the sales of the Classic or Passport. Those who want them will buy them.


Posted via CB10

I won't dwell, but look at your final two sentences again. In order for people to want the Classic or Passport, they (at the very least) need to know that they exist. So then we need to look at your second to last paragraph and ask ourselves whether advertising could have any influence whatsoever on making people aware that a given product exists.

I'll leave you to reflect on what makes sense there.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

I won't dwell, but look at your final two sentences again. In order for people to want the Classic or Passport, they (at the very least) need to know that they exist. So then we need to look at your second to last paragraph and ask ourselves whether advertising could have any influence whatsoever on making people aware that a given product exists.

I'll leave you to reflect on what makes sense there.

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry does spend money on advertising just not very effectively. I would probably spend more money on having working units in carrier stores for customers to try out.

You could spend lots of money on advertising but ultimately Joe consumer is not interested in the Classic or Passport because either the screen is too small, or the device is too large or there is not a viable app solution.

I might have been persuaded to buy a PKB if it did not have a square screen. Like many here I have moved on to a VKB BlackBerry and would be looking for an upgrade.




Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

BlackBerry does spend money on advertising just not very effectively. I would probably spend more money on having working units in carrier stores for customers to try out.

You could spend lots of money on advertising but ultimately Joe consumer is not interested in the Classic or Passport because either the screen is too small, or the device is too large or there is not a viable app solution.

I might have been persuaded to buy a PKB if it did not have a square screen. Like many here I have moved on to a VKB BlackBerry and would be looking for an upgrade.




Posted via CB10

BlackBerry Classic at my local store finally works...




.

(this is the outsiders' or stepchild phone corner, haha... **every**thing else is Android or iOS)

�   Pastaporto aglio e olio... Mmmhhh!   �

[leejayh]

The strategy is right - focusing on a segment of the market like the secure business user. However the execution has been flawed - which was partially there before Chen arrived, partially due to not knowing how the market was going to evolve, and in very large part due to self inflicted wounds.

It should always have been known that phones require Apps. I am tired of hearing "I don't need apps". Perhaps on this forum we know how to "make do". Most people don't. And for sure most people don't want to bother when two easy alternatives are staring them in the face. This was the mistake prior to Chen's arrival. Bb10 is great. But, they needed an app strategy and it is not credible, even today. All business apps reside on iphone and android.

The main change since the launch of z10 is the continued lock up of the android ecosystem with Google Play Services. Google is evil - or shrewd or both. It will be interesting to see how MSFT and Cyanogen try and unshackel the Android app world from Google. But it is not going to be easy or likely. Note, in the long run I see android killing Apple unless iOS changes significantly.

The self inflicted wound however, has been the phone strategy. Poorly done on every level. BlackBerry has been able to grab defeat from the jaws of victory every time. Poor hardware choices, poor design choices, and poor follow through. Even after all this time and countless threads, there is still no 5in all touch successor to the z30. It is totally within their power to simply take the Leap design and put Passport internals into it and make it with premium materials like the passport. Instead we continue to get underpowered devices with screens that don't really support the android apps that do work on BlackBerry - back to point 1.

I hope they do get this Android device out, put the bb10 experience on it, and have it on respectable hardware. I am writing this on my awesome Passport, but I recognize that I am the minority.

Posted via CB10

[Hende Nicolas]

It's been all short term thinking and a lack of talent or intelligence if we are honest. Terrible strategical thinking. Good devices, underpriced, lead to user base increases and that leads to more app power and then the cycles turnover and feed into each other.

The past is done, though, and even though they will probably mess up the future, it's still fun to think about and discuss. This is what I would do:


Release a high end touch around April next year...really high end, but priced to break even.

Release the (BlackBerry 10) slider in the fall, priced 20% lower than whatever BlackBerry want to actually price it at.

Reduce the Passport and all other BlackBerry 10 phones very significantly starting from Boxing Day.

Advertise aggressively from the fall, but not for all devices. Market the slider aggressively in New York, London, Toronto, and Berlin. You also want to aggressively advertise BBM. Focus on those centres and sacrifice the rest for the most part. I'd pour resources into those cities so that anyone and everyone who leaves their house knows about BlackBerry 10 and the new device. You'd want the ads to show the swiping and Hub, etc.

The goal is to increase the user base significantly over a twelve month period. Making huge profits on HW isn't the goal. At the end of that period, you want significantly better awareness of BlackBerry 10 and the Hub, multi-tasking, etc. From there, you can start to hopefully charge more for your devices and get some apps on board now that you are showing real user growth.




Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

The Americans have Black Friday sales rather than boxing day sales. This year that will be on November 27, 2015. ( going back to OP)

It is rather silly of BlackBerry not to be making an all touch version of the slider.
Many people do not want a heavier and probably more unreliable PKB. Perhaps the deal they made with Samsung prevents an all touch curved screen. Still make it flat screen then.

BlackBerry seems to have incredibly slow phone development times and yet their phones are not perfected on launch (see Leap speaker and camera).

Posted via CB10