[lnichols]

I dont know how much these phones vary within a model, but you heard the exact opposite of what I heard. Would it be practical for you to repeat that test to see if you get the same results?
To see if I was mistaken, I retested my bold 9930 which I have had for years [I have had 3 bolds and all performed the same] against the classic and htc again today.
Again, the bold is louder, has a better clearer tone, and a cleaner sound.
For what it is worth, the verizon rep told me that is because mine is a business phone [implying correctly that the others arent].
I think probably if Blackberry would put an audio system on the classic that is superior to iphone and android phones, and at least equal to the bold 9930, that they would have a popular phone for business use.

Go try one at a different carrier that supports HD Voice. Does Verizon still use that antiquated CDMA network for all voice calls, or did they migrate over to Voice on the LTE side yet? Have you played any music files on the speakers for comparison?

Posted via Z30

[boldisbetter2]

Verizon is my carrier. It doesn't matter what technology they use. The phone has to perform where it is used.
I compared iphone and androids which were also all on verizon. that's apples to apples.
I use my phone for phone, text and email. Music is not relevant. Real world work and communication is what matters on a business phone.

[lnichols]

Verizon is my carrier. It doesn't matter what technology they use. The phone has to perform where it is used.
I compared iphone and androids which were also all on verizon. that's apples to apples.
I use my phone for phone, text and email. Music is not relevant. Real world work and communication is what matters on a business phone.

The music is to test the quality of the speaker. It is possible that since BlackBerry and Verizon are not in great terms, that BlackBerry isn't putting too much R&D into CDMA side any more, in fact most companies are not. At the time of the Bold the technology was a little more prevalent. I know that the call quality on my Z10 and Z30 destroys the Bold 9900. Just to trying to help, but I think you have other agendas here. Hope you find a solution.

Posted via Z30

[boldisbetter2]

my agenda is to find an acceptable phone.
verizon is the only practical carrier in my area and for my usage nationwide and occasionally international.

[lnichols]

my agenda is to find an acceptable phone.
verizon is the only practical carrier in my area and for my usage nationwide and occasionally international.

OK so do the music test to see if if is the speaker that is the issue, or if it is an actual radio issue. If the speaker sounds the same or better with Music, then the issue is with the radio and/or a codec issue or non optimization in the OS or something. The speaker can't be fixed, but an OS issue could be addressed in a future update. Also add the phone in display to a phone capable of BBM voice and try to do that. The BBM Voice codecs are much higher quality on both BBOS and BB10 compared to codecs and compressions used on the cell networks. This again will narrow down to issue with speakers or the optimizations in the OS and/or radio itself.

Also may want to test a Z30 out for a call quality comparison since Verizon has carried these too. Plus the BlackBerry 10 OS is way more efficient in all touch, even with the VKB, over PKB form factor. You might actually like it. I used PKB devices all the way back to the Treo 600 then BlackBerry to the 9900 swearing I would always have a PKB, but the Z10 and Z30 have made me never want a PKB that will fail device again, and my 9900 and flaky optical trackpad never want me to have of those horrid things on my device again.

Traditional Cell phone call quality stinks compared regular phones especially on older networks like CDMA. Newer networks are capable of HD Voice which can actually deliver better than PSTN call quality as long as both endpoints don't traverse a PSTN in the middle.

I'm mean really how much of a difference are you talking about. I mean can you not understand people over the phone or is just not a THX certified experience that you think your Bold has. Also if you are on the phone that much I'd recommend a high quality Bluetooth device to limit your exposure to phone signal at the side of your head.

Posted via Z30

[Norg]

The Classic is not an improvement over the Bold. Here is the plain truth.
In my opinion V10 is a disaster.
When q10 and z10 came out I tried both out.
Neither was satisfactory. V10 was not ready for prime time.
Today I checked out the Classic. It is still not an improvement over the Bold.
Voice quality is not as good with the Classic as the Bold.
The speaker is not as good as the Bold. The Classic is not satisfactory as a speakerphone. It makes no sense for you to downgrade speaker and microphone capabilities for a work tool. It is a telephone and work tool you should remember. Tool first, toy second. That is Blackberry's place in the world.
The Classic phone vibrates when on speaker indicating a substandard chassis.
The hub is no substitute for the messages page on the bold. This messages page is one of the substantial advantages blackberry still has over the competition. Remember the kiss philosophy: keep it simple stupid.
The classic has a bigger screen. But you have wasted much precious real estate for the dubious privilege of pasting your name [Blackberry] on the front. It could have been put on the back. Screen space should not be compromised. You had room for a lot more screen if efficiently used. However screen size is not the most important thing.
Most important you as a company had the best phone in the world in the bold, when considered as a telephone, email, text and work tool. You could have updated the software and the hardware for a fraction of what you spent on a dubious v10, and had a fine phone.
You abandoned the best in favor of an operating system not ready for prime time, and which abandoned many fine organizational features of the bold in favor of a disorganized and lacking v10.
Even today with all the new phones on the market, when judged objectively as a work tool for making phone calls, sending and receiving text, and sending and receiving emails, the bold is still the best. It is better in this respect than the iphone, the android, the z30, and the so called Classic.
Return to and improve on your roots, if you want to succeed again.
It is time for an update and reissue of the Bold.

You must be a psychologist, you simply have to start accepting yourself as who you are today!!

Posted from my Kick@ss AT&T Passport.

[Valker]

I agree. I got my Bold out and activated it - now I can clearly hear phone conversations and callers can hear me. I like the hub on the Z30, but the Bold messages do the same thing. I went to great efforts to download apps on my Z30 but wound up almost neve using them. Agree- for phone, emails, texts it is still the best

[boldisbetter2]

OK so do the music test to see if if is the speaker that is the issue, or if it is an actual radio issue. If the speaker sounds the same or better with Music, then the issue is with the radio and/or a codec issue or non optimization in the OS or something. The speaker can't be fixed, but an OS issue could be addressed in a future update. Also add the phone in display to a phone capable of BBM voice and try to do that. The BBM Voice codecs are much higher quality on both BBOS and BB10 compared to codecs and compressions used on the cell networks. This again will narrow down to issue with speakers or the optimizations in the OS and/or radio itself.

Also may want to test a Z30 out for a call quality comparison since Verizon has carried these too. Plus the BlackBerry 10 OS is way more efficient in all touch, even with the VKB, over PKB form factor. You might actually like it. I used PKB devices all the way back to the Treo 600 then BlackBerry to the 9900 swearing I would always have a PKB, but the Z10 and Z30 have made me never want a PKB that will fail device again, and my 9900 and flaky optical trackpad never want me to have of those horrid things on my device again.

Traditional Cell phone call quality stinks compared regular phones especially on older networks like CDMA. Newer networks are capable of HD Voice which can actually deliver better than PSTN call quality as long as both endpoints don't traverse a PSTN in the middle.

I'm mean really how much of a difference are you talking about. I mean can you not understand people over the phone or is just not a THX certified experience that you think your Bold has. Also if you are on the phone that much I'd recommend a high quality Bluetooth device to limit your exposure to phone signal at the side of your head.

Posted via Z30

I have never used my phone for music. It is a work tool. The sound of music is irrelevant. Quality of voice transmission on existing Verizon network is the issue.
I dont have time to be a technologist. Performance is all that counts. A: it works or B: it dont.
Blackberry knew and knows what technology Verizon uses. What is, is.
It is up to blackberry to build a phone that works on Verizon's network. Not the reverse. Verizon is a, if not the, dominant cell phone company.
Bold works well with respect to voice. Other phones including classic are mediocre.
Blackberry made a phone once that had good voice transmission. I doubt they forgot how.

[lnichols]

I have never used my phone for music. It is a work tool. The sound of music is irrelevant. Quality of voice transmission on existing Verizon network is the issue.
I dont have time to be a technologist. Performance is all that counts. A: it works or B: it dont.
Blackberry knew and knows what technology Verizon uses. What is, is.
It is up to blackberry to build a phone that works on Verizon's network. Not the reverse. Verizon is a, if not the, dominant cell phone company.
Bold works well with respect to voice. Other phones including classic are mediocre.
Blackberry made a phone once that had good voice transmission. I doubt they forgot how.

Good luck! $#/+:;#

Posted via Z30

[boldisbetter2]

Good luck! $#/+:;#

Posted via Z30

Genius takes apparently complex problems and finds simple solutions. Right?

[anon(6038817)]

It's all subjective. Everyone has different needs and requirements and if the Bold 99XX meets those requirements then more power to you.

That said, technology has evolved beyond the 99XX and most people do not have the minimal requirements you do. So should BlackBerry cater to a small and shrinking minority with minimal, stagnant requirements? Or should they cater to the evolving needs of the majority?

The answer is obvious.

Adapt or don't. But legacy BBs are obsolete.

[boldisbetter2]

the new phones are much improved in most respects.
the market says they are missing something.
one thing they are missing is high quality voice transmission. it is not sufficient to match voice quality of iphone and android in a business tool.
voice quality is rather important in business communications. understanding and being understood is paramount in factual complicated discussions.
blackberry phones are or at least should be business tools. iphone and android are play toys.
blackberry should cater to the market it serves best.

[mhg0157]

it is not sufficient to match voice quality of iphone and android in a business tool.

I respect your opinions above but I have a completely different perspective on this point.

My brother and other friends on iPhones and Androids sound like they're talking on a tin can with a string. I avoid phone calls whenever possible. Even my non-discerning mother has noticed that talking on her land line to me on my Q10 is leagues beyond when she speaks to my brother on the iPhone.

I had the Bold 9650 for a year and change, the 9930 for 8 months, and the Q10, Z10, Z30 and Classic, and they all had awesome voice quality, and that's to say nothing of BBM calls. I've never felt there was a drop-off in quality when BB10 came out.

Posted via CB10

[boldisbetter2]

I respect your opinions above but I have a completely different perspective on this point.

My brother and other friends on iPhones and Androids sound like they're talking on a tin can with a string. I avoid phone calls whenever possible. Even my non-discerning mother has noticed that talking on her land line to me on my Q10 is leagues beyond when she speaks to my brother on the iPhone.

I had the Bold 9650 for a year and change, the 9930 for 8 months, and the Q10, Z10, Z30 and Classic, and they all had awesome voice quality, and that's to say nothing of BBM calls. I've never felt there was a drop-off in quality when BB10 came out.

Posted via CB10

I use verizon. which carrier do you use? is that a possible explanation of the difference?

[Prem WatsApp]

I respect your opinions above but I have a completely different perspective on this point.

My brother and other friends on iPhones and Androids sound like they're talking on a tin can with a string . I avoid phone calls whenever possible. Even my non-discerning mother has noticed that talking on her land line to me on my Q10 is leagues beyond when she speaks to my brother on the iPhone.

I had the Bold 9650 for a year and change, the 9930 for 8 months, and the Q10, Z10, Z30 and Classic, and they all had awesome voice quality, and that's to say nothing of BBM calls. I've never felt there was a drop-off in quality when BB10 came out.

Posted via CB10

It's the Tim Can, and it's called iPhone...
Full Aluminium jacket... :-)




�   Passposted while waiting for the Z-lider....   �

[Supa_Fly1]

Which model of the Bold is the op claiming is better?

9000 OG
9700
9780
9790
9900
Whatever freak version for 7mths after that then
9900 remix for 3/4mths?

Which Bold on a 2G or 3G network with less quality radios antenna and chips et not to mention legacy networks was better?

BlackBerry, accept no substitute nor compromise!

[lnichols]

Which model of the Bold is the op claiming is better?

9000 OG
9700
9780
9790
9900
Whatever freak version for 7mths after that then
9900 remix for 3/4mths?

Which Bold on a 2G or 3G network with less quality radios antenna and chips et not to mention legacy networks was better?

BlackBerry, accept no substitute nor compromise!

Appears to be a 9930 on Verizon's CDMA network that he is doing the comparison on. I'm not sure if they are doing Voice over LTE on the Classic now, or any device for that matter, or still relying on the CDMA network for all calling like they were earlier in the LTE rollout. My Z10 and Z30 on T-Mobile destroyed my 9900 on the same network, especially when HD Voice kicks in. But I don't use the phone often either and prefer written comms on my smartphone.

My feeling is that if there is an issue, it is either BlackBerry didn't put as much effort into CDMA optimization in 10.3.1 due to it being phased out and a tiny fraction of their business, or the phone is running VoLTE and Verizon hasn't worked out the bugs on that yet. Maybe some other Verizon user can chime in on quality that have had both devices.

Posted via Z30

[anon(6038817)]

Appears to be a 9930 on Verizon's CDMA network that he is doing the comparison on. I'm not sure if they are doing Voice over LTE on the Classic now, or any device for that matter, or still relying on the CDMA network for all calling like they were earlier in the LTE rollout. My Z10 and Z30 on T-Mobile destroyed my 9900 on the same network, especially when HD Voice kicks in. But I don't use the phone often either and prefer written comms on my smartphone.

My feeling is that if there is an issue, it is either BlackBerry didn't put as much effort into CDMA optimization in 10.3.1 due to it being phased out and a tiny fraction of their business, or the phone is running VoLTE and Verizon hasn't worked out the bugs on that yet. Maybe some other Verizon user can chime in on quality that have had both devices.

Posted via Z30

I'm a Verizon user and have used a 9930, Z10, Q10, and Z30. I consider myself more than moderately perceptive when it comes to differences in sound quality. All of the above devices have had exceptional call quality.

The Z30 did seem to have a problem with call volume when I first got it. Even at maximum it was difficult to hear sometimes. But when I upgraded to 10.2.1 it seemed to resolve that issue.

The 9930 is certainly among the best phones I have ever used when it comes to call quality, but I include all BlackBerry devices I've used among the best.

Typed with much precision and clicky-ness on my BlackBerry Bold 9930

[jmo712]

The Classic is awesome! Only issue I have is the double typing..thats it. Its def annoying, but not enough of a problem for me to jump ship!

[mhg0157]

I use verizon. which carrier do you use? is that a possible explanation of the difference?

I've been on Verizon forever as well, but to be fair I never sat down and did a side-by-side comparison on any of these devices. In addition I always seem to have amazing reception. But it gets hard to determine where the problem is because of all the variables - my reception, their reception, the carriers involved, which device is on the other end...the vast majority of the time I'm speaking to someone who is using an iPhone or Android. The best way I've been able to judge has been talking to someone on a land line so I know it's not them, and in that case it sounds great to me and to them as well.

Anyway, just personal anecdotal experience, nothing concrete I can offer!



Posted via CB10

[boldisbetter2]

try this, which i did [except there was no z30 available]:
go to the verizon store with your bold 9930. call from the bold to a classic, z30, iphone, samsung, htc1 etc.
try speakerphone and speaker on each . compare side by side. one in one hand. the other in the other.
then tell me what you hear.

[boldisbetter2]

On reexamination [at the Verizon store. I do not own one] I would like to modify my initial criticism of the Classic phone. Here are my latest impressions:
classic is approaching an acceptable business multitasking phone now.
I agree the hub is acceptable and useable.
Classic needs a side physical button to enable one to go straight to the phone calls page, which i use constantly. the side button facilitates multitasking by going straight to the required page. by having a physical button, one doesn't have to take one's eyes off the other task [ie driving] to find it.
On reexamining the classic, I agree that the speaker volume is higher than on the bold. However the speaker sound has a tinny quality that is less pleasing to the ear. As I constantly use the phone on speaker both to avoid either the phone constantly in my ear, and to avoid focusing all sound into one ear through bluetooth, I require a high quality loudspeaker. I find it easier on and less damaging to hearing. Not to mention the value of being able to share calls by using the speakerphone. This is a very valuable asset to the business man, as it facilitates communication and lessens the necessity to repeat what one hears.
This time I found speaker quality when on normal speaker to be better than bold.
Obviously a high quality noise cancelling microphone is also needed, to facilitate the usefulness of the speakerphone.
It is a big advantage to have a removeable battery. But I dont equate this with the need for a side button and highest quality microphone and speaker or speakers.
For a few dollars more it appears that Blackberry could have had a first class phone.
In the pictures the Passport appears that it is too big to use with one hand. a good phone must be operable easily in one hand. If it is too wide this cant be done. The screen can be a bit taller, and a rectangular screen makes reading easier when turned sideways.
The classic width seems acceptable, but I believe the bold width is ideal for a multi tasking business phone.
I would like to buy a new phone, but I find no phone that for my purposes justifies changing from my old and outdated bold. My sensitive ears, and my need to multitask tell me bold is still better, though by a decreasing margin.
I, and i predict a lot of others, are not looking for a cheap phone. I am looking for a high quality phone at a fair price.
I hope this gives Blackberry execs some clarification and additional insight into what businessmen need in a phone. I hope to see this phone soon. But I am tired of waiting.

[MarsupilamiX]

I, and i predict a lot of others, are not looking for a cheap phone. I am looking for a high quality phone at a fair price.

Buy a Chinese Android phone then?

[jonyip]

I had the bold, upgraded to Q10 and then the Classic. And each time I felt it is a better device. No regrets on following the intended upgrade path.

Now if only they'll put the trackpad on the passport...

Posted via CB10

[nt300]

This is a silly thread IMO. BB10 is an improvement over BBOS. BB10 is an improvement over iOS and Android too.
As for the actual hardware and its internals, that is a different story.