[MarsupilamiX]

I do believe that regardless of the issue, BBRY's inability to get those legacy OS users to get with BB10 is a reason the new platform struggled out the gate.

It definitely didn't help.
But when most of your customers buy something like a 200$ curve, you won't please this crowd with a 650$ Z10/Z30/Q10.
And the Q5 price at its launch, was completely bananas as well.

Since most of these users come from emerging markets, you shouldn't ignore the trend of consumers "buying locally" now.
http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/06/2...annual-growth/

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[RubberChicken76]

It is frustrating.....but I do believe they failed to understand what consumers wanted.

I don't know if I agree that they completely failed. When I look at those guys, I see them accused of that a lot, but I see more atrocious execution being the bigger issue.

People often say things like:

"They ignored touch screens". They didn't ... they had a touch screen device a year or so after the iPhone ... but it sucked. They tried again with a Storm 2, a touch torch, a touch curve. But they never quite worked.

"They ignored the need for a good browser". They didn't. They tried to reply using existing browser technology but it sucked. Then they went and acquired Torch, but that took a while to implement.

"They ignored apps". again, they didn't. They always had apps on BlackBerry. They came out with an App Store pretty quickly and a developer conference quickly. But they had a hard time getting developers to develop, and developers to put apps in the App Store. To this day, try and find the legacy Kindle app in App World. It exists, but Amazon couldn't be bothered to put it in.

"They ignored the need for the modern OS". They kept trying to upgrade BlackBerry OS. Remember that whole liquid graphics thing? Bolting on the torch browser. They thought they could do it under their own steam, and it ultimately didn't work.

I live in the area and I know many people working for the company (past and present). They grew obscenely fast ... 4000-6000--8000-12000-16000-20000. And then stumbled under the weight of it.

It's made extra problematic by the fact that Google and Apple are designed to be extremely fast, focused companies ... they move at lightning speed and were different than slow moving competitors of the past.

[Bbnivende]

Yes it is the phones. The Z10 has a big body but a small screen. The device looks very cheap compared with the leaders. The Q10 screen is too small to attract new fans and yet fails to provide a trackpad to compensate the small screen size.

The Z30 has a good design but other manufacturers have figured out how to put a big screen in a smaller lighter body.

[stackberry369]

I already posted this article.

[Nine54]

Great post. So, what does the fact that BlackBerry didn't ignore these things mean? Was it just an execution problem? Your post emphasizes that rather than have a vision for the next/future BlackBerry experience it wanted to deliver, the company simply reacted to each of these mobile trends and took a piecemeal approach towards implementing the functionality. And to users, the whole was not greater than the sum of its parts.

I don't know if I agree that they completely failed. When I look at those guys, I see them accused of that a lot, but I see more atrocious execution being the bigger issue.

People often say things like:

"They ignored touch screens". They didn't ... they had a touch screen device a year or so after the iPhone ... but it sucked. They tried again with a Storm 2, a touch torch, a touch curve. But they never quite worked.

I think it's because touch is somewhat inherently counter to what makes a BlackBerry a BlackBerry. The whole UX paradigm was driven around physical keys and a trackpad/trackball, which are what made it so fast and efficient in many respects. It would be like trying to integrate a mouse within a CLI.

"They ignored the need for a good browser". They didn't. They tried to reply using existing browser technology but it sucked. Then they went and acquired Torch, but that took a while to implement.

Again, although not a UI issue, modern browsers were just somewhat counter to the BIS portion of the BlackBerry experience. I actually didn't mind navigating pages on my Bold as the trackpad and T and B keys were handy. What made it frustrating were the load times and challenges with non-mobile sites. BlackBerry should have made BIS optional in the browser...like a proxy mode.

"They ignored apps". again, they didn't. They always had apps on BlackBerry. They came out with an App Store pretty quickly and a developer conference quickly. But they had a hard time getting developers to develop, and developers to put apps in the App Store. To this day, try and find the legacy Kindle app in App World. It exists, but Amazon couldn't be bothered to put it in.

Supposedly the platform was more difficult to develop for. I can't really attest to that, though I can see how apps couldn't easily be ported between platforms since BlackBerry requires a different memory-based storage architecture.

"They ignored the need for the modern OS". They kept trying to upgrade BlackBerry OS. Remember that whole liquid graphics thing? Bolting on the torch browser. They thought they could do it under their own steam, and it ultimately didn't work.

I think it was a combination of BlackBerry taking too long to achieve feature parity and user preferences changing more quickly than BlackBerry expected.

I live in the area and I know many people working for the company (past and present). They grew obscenely fast ... 4000-6000--8000-12000-16000-20000. And then stumbled under the weight of it.

It's made extra problematic by the fact that Google and Apple are designed to be extremely fast, focused companies ... they move at lightning speed and were different than slow moving competitors of the past.

Not only did BlackBerry grow very quickly, but they grew around a business carrier-centric and enterprise sales model that was quickly becoming obsolete.

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[Nine54]

loyal? or tied to?

Many users didn't upgrade because they are in contracts, many do not have funds that allow for new device just whenever they want them, many NEED cheaper BlackBerry data plans that are only available to BIS devices, many are using corporate provided devices - and these corporations are slow to make change and wary of jumping on "new" technology.

BB10 is not really what most users see as a BlackBerry.... so if you have to go to something new, why not look at what Android and Apple have to offer. Android can do much more and is available in a much wider range of prices (it cost less).

BlackBerry did NOTHING to leverage these 70- million users, which was just another of the mistakes they made in migrating to this new OS.

Agree. While many users might see BB 10 as an upgrade, they don't necessarily see it as any more of an upgrade than Android or iOS... especially since little of what they might have liked about BlackBerry was carried over.

I don't think BlackBerry expected many of BBOS users in certain markets to upgrade in the short term, which is why they released a new BBOS phone. But not being able to leverage this existing installed base to boost your burgeoning platform was a huge missed opportunity. And of course, there's the ecosystem fragmentation.

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[RubberChicken76]

I think it's because touch is somewhat inherently counter to what makes a BlackBerry a BlackBerry. The whole UX paradigm was driven around physical keys and a trackpad/trackball, which are what made it so fast and efficient in many respects. It would be like trying to integrate a mouse within a CLI.

Oh I agree. I tried touch only based BlackBerry devices and always gave up because it felt like that hole UI paradigm was so not intended for a touch experience. Too many clicks, too slow to react, menus on menus ... i found it slowed me down immeasurably not to have the keyboard shortcuts. To me, anyway, it felt like trying to graft an unnatural experience onto a platform meant for a click and scroll UI input. The iPhone was clearly designed from the beginning with a touch screen in mind and it felt it. BlackBerry 10 and PlayBook OS were the right approach, but obviously had their own issues.

Again, although not a UI issue, modern browsers were just somewhat counter to the BIS portion of the BlackBerry experience.

And also a different era. When the BlackBerry browser was made, networks were awful and this was a way to provide some web browsing in that world. It took a while to catch up actually. Even the first iPhones showed that networks weren't ready for a desktop like browser - all the AT&T outages, slowdowns, coverage issues initially showed that. But it took BlackBerry a bloody long to react. Again, the Z10 browser is pretty good in my experience ... but would have been nice to see something like this a few years earlier.

Supposedly the platform was more difficult to develop for.

My developer friends have often screamed about how fragmented the platform was. So many different screen types, so many different input methods, so many different OS versions with corresponding different APIs and services, devices with hardware capabilities etc that the development costs were obscene. Plus the platform as a whole had serious limitations in the modern "app era", specifically around things like the limited file sizes and needing to reboot in most cases ... that put it at a disadvantage. The first time I saw "Resident Evil 4" on an iPhone, I did an "uh oh" when I looked at my 9700.

I think it was a combination of BlackBerry taking too long to achieve feature parity and user preferences changing more quickly than BlackBerry expected.

For sure. And again, it can't be re-iterated enough: Apple and Google are fast moving, focused companies. Faster than competitors that came before them which BlackBerry was used to. Apple came with a disruptive platform that pulled in their competitive advantages and ran.

Not only did BlackBerry grow very quickly, but they grew around a business carrier-centric and enterprise sales model that was quickly becoming obsolete.

The carriers turned on them pretty quickly too. They kissed the carriers butts and were quite quickly cast aside.

[mset]

You know all you did was agree with the article right? He was talking about perception if the company (same thing you are doing) and touched on the app selection. I'm on and android device now and I recently looked at BlackBerry world because I was looking at getting at z30 and was actually amazed by how many apps, there are now. Only three big names that are critical right now and that is Vine, Instagram, and Netflix that are actually missing. If BlackBerry had those three, they would for sure be on par with other ecosystems. Plenty games and productivity apps to check out. It can only get better (app-wise) from here.

It's truly remarkable that anyone could believe this type of nonsense, after all that's been written here. The proof that this is completely wrong is actually directly above, in this very thread (and about 200 others) but people don't read, they just post this type of rhetoric.

The app issue has little to do with Vine or Netflix.

So all you did was pick out one section of my post, making it seem like that's all I said? I said the problem with the company is perception which is touched on in the article.

I'm sorry, you absolutely were not saying it's a perception that 3 big-name apps are all that are missing, and that if BB10 had them, they would be on par with other ecosystems. You were stating this as a matter of fact. I have quoted your entire post above just to be clear.

Your initial statement was weak, but it's even weaker to try to disclaim it after the fact. We've all been wrong. I've been wrong on these forums and posted retractions.

This is the type of thing that invites so much ridicule around here.

[cgk]

We have gone past the tipping point where the handset side can be saved, regardless of what fixes people suggest. wp8 has solidly pasted bb10 and although is far behind android and iOS is now the clear number three in terms of market share. At the same time, carrier support for bb10 has gone completely off the cliff, look at the feeble launch of the z30.

[TGR1]

We have gone past the tipping point where the handset side can be saved, regardless of what fixes people suggest. wp8 has solidly pasted bb10 and although is far behind android and iOS is now the clear number three in terms of market share. At the same time, carrier support for bb10 has gone completely off the cliff, look at the feeble launch of the z30.

Not just carrier disinterest. The state of the launches and pricing give me the overwhelming impression that BlackBerry itself doesn't care and is just going through the motions, relying upon diehards to prop them up just long enough.