[GadgetTravel]

Lol everybody is saying what would have happened and what will happen if BlackBerry and Nokia went android. Nobody knows the future or what would have happened, stop saying your opinions like their facts. I would still love to see a BlackBerry android Q10

From Q10/HTC One aka Batman & Robin

I really wish I had Android on my Q10 as well. I'm already wondering how long I can put up with such a crappy app selection.

[DS1331]

But that's the thing like one of the other users said, just because BlackBerry creates an android based phone doesn't mean it has to go permanent and ALL android, could they not just create one or two phones running android and build on that if they do it correctly?

From Q10/HTC One aka Batman & Robin

[GadgetTravel]

Yes, room for 2-3 ecosystems. But how many OEMs actually even survive in that congested ecosystem? I raised the question yet you choose not to answer, only glossing over that Android will help. Yes it can and it will, but TO WHAT EXTENT? I have already even lined up the scenarios where BlackBerry chooses android, not only in this thread but other threads as well, and I believe I've made my argument clear enough (though as unconvincing it may be) that a full Android powered BlackBerry would kill the old RIM faster than BB10 powered BlackBerry.

Secondly, you're wrong about Symbian. It was a de-facto standard used by Nokia, Sony Ericson and Samsung on a global scale, much like now Android > iOS users on global scale by today's standards.This is true even after Nokia bought Symbian just to choke out on the competition (because Samsung and Sony Ericson were creating better User experiences on their Symbians). Symbian was a giant before Apple iOS took dominance. After Android was introduced, Symbian fell even further down to oblivion.

But back to the so called "real point". I don't think BlackBerry can survive being an Android at all, looking at the track record of hardware history, as well as the way things were done from OS6-BB10. Compare the hardware, the launch execution, and it would be true of the mantra that BlackBerry would be dead by 2012 had they gone the Android route.

I know the story of Symbian, right back to Psion. Everyone said it was a great OS and people at Nokia said it was so much better than Android. So they waited too long to go with the right standard and there they are today. They didnt see the consolidation or which way it was moving.

[BlackBerry Guy]

I still disagree. Looking at how BlackBerry handled the post OS6 to BB10 transition period, and the curious case of HTC's shortcomings in the Android venture, taking that as a parallel example, then you'll see that "identitities" doesn't matter much. The way Samsung steamrolled the competition that HTC was forced to take a loss, BlackBerry would have suffered worst still.

The author may have good romantization of Android per se, but falls short of actually delivering how BlackBerry would actually succeed without even naming the mechanisms, except for the "oh BlackBerry should have gone Android based on my chart of hierachy of smartphone!" which is not a qualify-able statement to raise as an absolute measure-able statement.

Essentially it fails to even attempt to answer how people would react negatively to Android being a closed platform under BlackBerry (do you really think BlackBerry would have allowed rooting for instance, having seen their track record with Playbook's rooting?) and simply glossing over issues as such and make bold claims that Android is the savior.

In hindsight, I could have written a similar article and just changed to say BlackBerry could have just licensed WP and add their layer on top of WP and let MS pay the devs for apps while BB would continue to refine the OS, and it'll work out very good too since BB has the infrastructure to retrieve mails from apple servers, google servers and ms servers just as fine, with or without blockade and sing that WP is the ultimate answer (not that I believe it to be so)

Comparing HTC to BlackBerry, what were their identities during the BBOS6 - BB10 transition period? We all know what BlackBerry's strengths are and what they are known for. They also have the CrackBerry faithful, the hardcore business users etc. People who would've at the time bough the product because it was a BlackBerry branded device first, not because it was an Android and could possibly be rooted. HTC was an ODM to many OEMs for a while, making primarily WinMo devices before latching onto Android. They build gadget porn hardware and hit a few home runs 2009-2010ish. But what defines them? They kind of get lost in the sea of Android manufacturers. They wouldn't stand out like a Nokia, BlackBerry, or Palm (the OEMs with integrated hardware and software solutions that have dominated mobile at one time or another). In fact, I'd almost say that any one of those 3 companies taking up Android would've been equally beneficial for the Android brand at the time.

Samsung steamrolled everyone else due to sheer volume...they had the money to literally throw everything at the wall and have a few successes along the way. And whether they'll admit it or not, some of their earlier devices (ie. Galaxy S) took a lot of inspiration from Apple, right down to their USB cables. They sort of became the Apple alternative for people who wanted to look the part, but didn't necessarily want an iPhone, or perhaps didn't have one available from their carrier. That was the initial identify they carved out for themselves, and to their credit they've slowly moved away from that into what you're seeing today.

[fteoOpty64]

Agree that romanticizing Android way too much. While Android only poses a threat when it reaches 4.1 maturity, prior to that, the features and functionality were below market expectation. Comparing BB, it is different. BB7 already had all those features and functionaities and more. The key for BB is to enbale a better compatibility layer for Android apps to operate seamlessly (or close to it). Security wise, BB is way better than anything else out there and it was never emphasized as much. So no, BB does NOT need Android but do NEED to innovate forward in newer features functions that people expects and would life to have.

[badiyee]

Comparing HTC to BlackBerry, what were their identities during the BBOS6 - BB10 transition period? We all know what BlackBerry's strengths are and what they are known for. They also have the CrackBerry faithful, the hardcore business users etc. People who would've at the time bough the product because it was a BlackBerry branded device first, not because it was an Android and could possibly be rooted. HTC was an ODM to many OEMs for a while, making primarily WinMo devices before latching onto Android. They build gadget porn hardware and hit a few home runs 2009-2010ish. But what defines them? They kind of get lost in the sea of Android manufacturers. They wouldn't stand out like a Nokia, BlackBerry, or Palm (the OEMs with integrated hardware and software solutions that have dominated mobile at one time or another). In fact, I'd almost say that any one of those 3 companies taking up Android would've been equally beneficial for the Android brand at the time.

Samsung steamrolled everyone else due to sheer volume...they had the money to literally throw everything at the wall and have a few successes along the way. And whether they'll admit it or not, some of their earlier devices (ie. Galaxy S) took a lot of inspiration from Apple, right down to their USB cables. They sort of became the Apple alternative for people who wanted to look the part, but didn't necessarily want an iPhone, or perhaps didn't have one available from their carrier. That was the initial identify they carved out for themselves, and to their credit they've slowly moved away from that into what you're seeing today.

You answered your own question, though I'm not sure you realize it or not.
Can you elaborate how, assuming BlackBerry converted into full Android would "not" (emphasis on not) be lost in the sea of all other Androids?

Mind you, HTC has HTC sense ui, which was in a way compared to be far superior against Samsung's "TouchWiz UI", but ultimately lost the low-end war because Samsung kept releasing more and more low end phones. Even their top end lost against S3s. What theorical basis do you have to claim BlackBerry would survive based on "loyalty to the BlackBerry brand" alone?

Even within the so called HTC enthusiasts, it was plagued with the ever increasing dissenting voice that one cannot unlock the bootloader (the argument was the phone was the user's, and so they can do ANYTHING that they want with it). However that experience is not exactly in line with BlackBerry's philosophy of security first, because rooting itself is fundamentally a process of undermining all that so that the user can do what he / she wants with the phone, not let the phone do what its supposed to be able to do without being hacked / rooted into.

Secondly, no matter how loyal you are to BlackBerry brand, its already very difficult to ignore the 'concerns' of users that constantly harp on insisting to have the latest hardware. One of the very reasons that make Android wonderful for customers, but bad for manufacturers is that the fickleness of brand loyalties. The more value conscious customers won't be sticking with brand if the value is there. If CrackBerry forums are of any indication, the amount of furore every time a new phone is released (often slightly underpowered compared to other Android devices) already gain a lot of traction. That was irregardless it was a OS7, or even BB10. Let alone if this was Android (let's assume it is such since it was the idea of the OP) it would have been ripped apart worse by the reviewers and customers. Loyalty can rose-tint some users, but eventually people would start asking if having an Android powered BlackBerry is worth it against Android powered Samsung, Motorola, Sony, or anything for the matter. The way I see it, android powered BlackBerry would still be drowned in the sea of mass of androids.

[GadgetTravel]

You answered your own question, though I'm not sure you realize it or not.
Can you elaborate how, assuming BlackBerry converted into full Android would "not" (emphasis on not) be lost in the sea of all other Androids?

Mind you, HTC has HTC sense ui, which was in a way compared to be far superior against Samsung's "TouchWiz UI", but ultimately lost the low-end war because Samsung kept releasing more and more low end phones. Even their top end lost against S3s. What theorical basis do you have to claim BlackBerry would survive based on "loyalty to the BlackBerry brand" alone?

Even within the so called HTC enthusiasts, it was plagued with the ever increasing dissenting voice that one cannot unlock the bootloader (the argument was the phone was the user's, and so they can do ANYTHING that they want with it). However that experience is not exactly in line with BlackBerry's philosophy of security first, because rooting itself is fundamentally a process of undermining all that so that the user can do what he / she wants with the phone, not let the phone do what its supposed to be able to do without being hacked / rooted into.

Secondly, no matter how loyal you are to BlackBerry brand, its already very difficult to ignore the 'concerns' of users that constantly harp on insisting to have the latest hardware. One of the very reasons that make Android wonderful for customers, but bad for manufacturers is that the fickleness of brand loyalties. The more value conscious customers won't be sticking with brand if the value is there. If CrackBerry forums are of any indication, the amount of furore every time a new phone is released (often slightly underpowered compared to other Android devices) already gain a lot of traction. That was irregardless it was a OS7, or even BB10. Let alone if this was Android (let's assume it is such since it was the idea of the OP) it would have been ripped apart worse by the reviewers and customers. Loyalty can rose-tint some users, but eventually people would start asking if having an Android powered BlackBerry is worth it against Android powered Samsung, Motorola, Sony, or anything for the matter. The way I see it, android powered BlackBerry would still be drowned in the sea of mass of androids.

The term "drowned in a sea of Androids" is perhaps accurate but also subjective. Quantitatively several Android makers are selling more phones than BB10 from what I can tell. It seems that that is the bottom line.

[badiyee]

The term "drowned in a sea of Androids" is perhaps accurate but also subjective. Quantitatively several Android makers are selling more phones than BB10 from what I can tell. It seems that that is the bottom line.

and thus the question, is the numbers (of Android competition) that edges out BlackBerry's own BlackBerry (powered by BBOS) to BlackBerry (powered by Android) upgrade quantifiable, in let's say, guaranteed numbers? I have posted already a few, repetitively speaking, the risks, and even parallels that how BlackBerry/RIM reacted, and how it would meant MORE trouble. Would that numbers be concretely achievable? If you can prove that, I'm sure there would be others in the investors (who seem to be implying that they're investors in BBRY) that can and will push this agenda again.

Though let me reiterate, i'm not against BlackBerry going Android. I'm only saying had BlackBerry gone FULL ANDROID in the beginning, it would have been disaster for them.

Since this is ARMCHAIR CEO forum anyway, the best way I can think of not alienating the subscriber base that REALLY wanted Android is to wait for say another BB10, before dual-releasing a BBRY BB10 phone and a BBRY Android phone. Though, if you ask me, there aren't any incentives enough for BBRY to really go into that route (dual launching of BB10 OS and Android-BB OS on two exact same hardware, just different OS). Because the moment they move into Android, whatever they did with Android is free game for other competition to copy-paste and implement into their own Android phones.

[BlackBerry Guy]

You answered your own question, though I'm not sure you realize it or not.
Can you elaborate how, assuming BlackBerry converted into full Android would "not" (emphasis on not) be lost in the sea of all other Androids?

Mind you, HTC has HTC sense ui, which was in a way compared to be far superior against Samsung's "TouchWiz UI", but ultimately lost the low-end war because Samsung kept releasing more and more low end phones. Even their top end lost against S3s. What theorical basis do you have to claim BlackBerry would survive based on "loyalty to the BlackBerry brand" alone?

Even within the so called HTC enthusiasts, it was plagued with the ever increasing dissenting voice that one cannot unlock the bootloader (the argument was the phone was the user's, and so they can do ANYTHING that they want with it). However that experience is not exactly in line with BlackBerry's philosophy of security first, because rooting itself is fundamentally a process of undermining all that so that the user can do what he / she wants with the phone, not let the phone do what its supposed to be able to do without being hacked / rooted into.

Secondly, no matter how loyal you are to BlackBerry brand, its already very difficult to ignore the 'concerns' of users that constantly harp on insisting to have the latest hardware. One of the very reasons that make Android wonderful for customers, but bad for manufacturers is that the fickleness of brand loyalties. The more value conscious customers won't be sticking with brand if the value is there. If CrackBerry forums are of any indication, the amount of furore every time a new phone is released (often slightly underpowered compared to other Android devices) already gain a lot of traction. That was irregardless it was a OS7, or even BB10. Let alone if this was Android (let's assume it is such since it was the idea of the OP) it would have been ripped apart worse by the reviewers and customers. Loyalty can rose-tint some users, but eventually people would start asking if having an Android powered BlackBerry is worth it against Android powered Samsung, Motorola, Sony, or anything for the matter. The way I see it, android powered BlackBerry would still be drowned in the sea of mass of androids.

Would a BlackBerry running Android, with full access to Google Play, enterprise ready, has BBM and one of those delightful physical keyboards not sufficiently stand out on it's own in the sea of Androids? Would it not have made those BlackBerry users (consumer and enterprise) who were considering jumping ship to another manufacturer due to lack of apps or old hardware/OS, think twice and reconsider? This is the user group that was close to 80 million at it's peak. You're right that Android owners can be somewhat fickle with brand loyalties. The reason behind this is due to a general lack of identity when looking at Android. They all can access Google Play and Google services, so it's of little consequence if they move from Samsung, to Motorola, or HTC or LG, because it's all Google on the back end for the most part. Now if BlackBerry came in a few years ago, used Android to address their aging OS and app issues (also freeing itself from the hardware constraints due to BBOS), and on top of that put on all the services (BBM, BES etc) and hardware keyboard they are known for....you really think that would've they would've been worse off than doing what they did between 2010-13 when people started jumping ship?

[badiyee]

Would a BlackBerry running Android, with full access to Google Play, enterprise ready, has BBM and one of those delightful physical keyboards not sufficiently stand out on it's own in the sea of Androids? Would it not have made those BlackBerry users (consumer and enterprise) who were considering jumping ship to another manufacturer due to lack of apps or old hardware/OS, think twice and reconsider? This is the user group that was close to 80 million at it's peak. You're right that Android owners can be somewhat fickle with brand loyalties. The reason behind this is due to a general lack of identity when looking at Android. They all can access Google Play and Google services, so it's of little consequence if they move from Samsung, to Motorola, or HTC or LG, because it's all Google on the back end for the most part. Now if BlackBerry came in a few years ago, used Android to address their aging OS and app issues (also freeing itself from the hardware constraints due to BBOS), and on top of that put on all the services (BBM, BES etc) and hardware keyboard they are known for....you really think that would've they would've been worse off than doing what they did between 2010-13 when people started jumping ship?

Aha, but you see, you're making the comparison on the basis that BlackBerry itself as a brand and a flavour, not as an ecosystem.

IF, per say, BlackBerry continued making OS7, then BB10, but at the same time forks it into Android, for example BB9900, then Z10 BB10 and Z10-AOS, then the argument MAY be plausible, though its full of loopholes left and right.

But one may not forget the moment you become part of an ecosystem, you're just another part of the ecosystem. You're NOT the ecosystem. In this case, let us look at your proposal. You say that BBM will be differenciator. You said enterprise ready is a differenciator. You claimed that Google Play in Android powered BlackBerry is a differenciator. I think you're at this point, while romanticizing on the various benefits, you choose to close one eye or both to the various pitfalls and pittraps of BlackBerry being a part of a greater Android ecosystem.

I have repeated a whole lot, and I don't want to. What I want to press on here, is that its not as rosy as it thinks. To your statement that "you really think that would've they would've been worse off than doing what they did between 2010-13 when people started jumping ship?" My answer is a definite YES.

While I don't think I can quantify nor qualify that statement concretely, I would say it like this, to give you the image that I see.

1a) If you are a BlackBerry user, you're in BlackBerry ecosystem for that device.
1b) If you're an Android user, you're fundamentally an Android user, not a OEM-brand loyalist. You just prefer the brand, but ultimately you're still an Android user. Thus, BlackBerry will relegate its status from an ecosystem to a mere "dumbpipe" of hardware.

2) Rooting is considered, as far as I think and observed; as a 'right' of an Android-powered phone owner to their Android powered phones. No matter the debate of this, if memory serves me right BlackBerry does not see 'rooting' as a 'right' nor 'priviledge'. They see it as a fundamental security threat. Therefore the challenge is to create an Android that is fundamentally unroot-able, to the point that any attempts in doing so will either brick / lock the phone to un-usable status. If I remember correctly it will also force the data to be unrecoverable (by design). These aren't core strengths of Android. Now, assuming that BlackBerry is able to do this, there is a risk of that 'technology' being stolen. (point 3)

3. If memory serves me right, any contributions to the Android OS is considered 'free-game' for other manufacturers to include / not include. I'm not sure how propietary pieces are treated, for example Samsung Knox, but as far as I remember its not Samsung's Android that's FIPS certified, it was their hardware that was certified, as long as it wasn't rooted. If anything, everything that BlackBerry adds into the Android OS will be a double edged-sword in the sense that competitions can and will use that to empower their variants / skins of the Android OS. Then compound in the "BlackBerry used inferior specs" into the equation, it would be game over.

3a. In your argument, you posted this:
"Would it not have made those BlackBerry users (consumer and enterprise) who were considering jumping ship to another manufacturer due to lack of apps or old hardware/OS, think twice and reconsider?" It would have mattered very little. They are essentially jumping from BBOS / BB10 to Android OS.

There is a sub-argument to this that Jolla Sailfish supporters claim that Jolla can run Android fully, down right to the App store. Therefore it would be popular. There is some weight to this, as represented in MIUI-Android OS (its a super heavily skinned Android, and the framework actually removes all traces of GAPPS, and it'll still work, with the chinese alternatives, weird, I know) or FlymeOS, but if you reverse the position, BlackBerry can actually support Android apps. The only thing it refuses to do is to let GAPPS run, (it'll be weird, funny but interesting to see what if, a BlackBerry phone has BBWorld and Google Play Store in it) and because android apps is sideloaded instead of 'direct installed' via a store, perceptions are against BlackBerry.

(another side argument to the sub argument is to just let BlackBerry allow Google Play Store to run, and voila! all problems solved, but its... not something that Google would allow, I think, and its a separate topic to that, my best guess for it).

putting BES and BIS and BBM, I think you may be right, but I think BlackBerry took the BETTER WAY of separating BES and BBM and making it cross platform, although it may be too late to save BlackBerry (as per the announcement to sell the company, assuming its to be sold to be cannibalized for parts and pieces). Now if we look at BBM and BES as part of Android (exclusive to only BlackBerry Androids), then I'll say it still WON'T STOP people from leaving BlackBerry flavoured Android to other flavours of Android. It wouldn't turn the tide, I sus

[BlackBerry Guy]

1a) If you are a BlackBerry user, you're in BlackBerry ecosystem for that device.
1b) If you're an Android user, you're fundamentally an Android user, not a OEM-brand loyalist. You just prefer the brand, but ultimately you're still an Android user. Thus, BlackBerry will relegate its status from an ecosystem to a mere "dumbpipe" of hardware.

BlackBerry with BBOS had almost no app ecosystem to speak of. People generally used them because of their communication abilities and hooks like BBM. They started leaving when other platforms, including Android, offered a richer ecosystem and user experience. Again, if BlackBerry could offer all their traditional "goodness" but on top of the Android OS and with access to Google Play, do you really think long time BlackBerry users would pick up a Samsung or LG if they can pick up an Android powered BlackBerry? They would still be much more than a hardware downpipe because they are offering BlackBerry specific hardware design, software and services on top of Android.

You're basically painting all Android users with a single brush and you're projecting that singular identity on to BlackBerry owners that would switch to an Android powered Berry. A BlackBerry user upgrading to said hypothetical BB-Droid device I would think would be more "loyal" to the brand first.

2) Rooting is considered, as far as I think and observed; as a 'right' of an Android-powered phone owner to their Android powered phones. No matter the debate of this, if memory serves me right BlackBerry does not see 'rooting' as a 'right' nor 'priviledge'. They see it as a fundamental security threat. Therefore the challenge is to create an Android that is fundamentally unroot-able, to the point that any attempts in doing so will either brick / lock the phone to un-usable status. If I remember correctly it will also force the data to be unrecoverable (by design). These aren't core strengths of Android. Now, assuming that BlackBerry is able to do this, there is a risk of that 'technology' being stolen. (point 3)

Again you're painting all Android users as the same. Someone coming from BBOS would likely have little interest in rooting and would be use to having a locked down handset anyway.

3. If memory serves me right, any contributions to the Android OS is considered 'free-game' for other manufacturers to include / not include. I'm not sure how propietary pieces are treated, for example Samsung Knox, but as far as I remember its not Samsung's Android that's FIPS certified, it was their hardware that was certified, as long as it wasn't rooted. If anything, everything that BlackBerry adds into the Android OS will be a double edged-sword in the sense that competitions can and will use that to empower their variants / skins of the Android OS. Then compound in the "BlackBerry used inferior specs" into the equation, it would be game over.

3a. In your argument, you posted this:
"Would it not have made those BlackBerry users (consumer and enterprise) who were considering jumping ship to another manufacturer due to lack of apps or old hardware/OS, think twice and reconsider?" It would have mattered very little. They are essentially jumping from BBOS / BB10 to Android OS.

There is a sub-argument to this that Jolla Sailfish supporters claim that Jolla can run Android fully, down right to the App store. Therefore it would be popular. There is some weight to this, as represented in MIUI-Android OS (its a super heavily skinned Android, and the framework actually removes all traces of GAPPS, and it'll still work, with the chinese alternatives, weird, I know) or FlymeOS, but if you reverse the position, BlackBerry can actually support Android apps. The only thing it refuses to do is to let GAPPS run, (it'll be weird, funny but interesting to see what if, a BlackBerry phone has BBWorld and Google Play Store in it) and because android apps is sideloaded instead of 'direct installed' via a store, perceptions are against BlackBerry.

(another side argument to the sub argument is to just let BlackBerry allow Google Play Store to run, and voila! all problems solved, but its... not something that Google would allow, I think, and its a separate topic to that, my best guess for it).

putting BES and BIS and BBM, I think you may be right, but I think BlackBerry took the BETTER WAY of separating BES and BBM and making it cross platform, although it may be too late to save BlackBerry (as per the announcement to sell the company, assuming its to be sold to be cannibalized for parts and pieces). Now if we look at BBM and BES as part of Android (exclusive to only BlackBerry Androids), then I'll say it still WON'T STOP people from leaving BlackBerry flavoured Android to other flavours of Android. It wouldn't turn the tide, I sus

I don't believe you have to contribute back to AOSP, but someone more familiar with that end of things could probably tell us.

Again, they are not jumping from BBOS to Android. They are jumping from BBOS to a BB made Android device with BlackBerry features and hooks in it. Big difference.

The blog post I think was written from the perspective that BlackBerry and Nokia never dipped into BB10 and Windows Phone, but rather went straight to Android. Going to Android now wouldn't save them in their current condition, but it may have 3 years ago. They have to split off BES10 and BBM now because they have no other choice. They've lost their advantage already. If they switched OS earlier, they could've quite possibly kept BES and BBM as BlackBerry Android exclusive.

[badiyee]

BlackBerry with BBOS had almost no app ecosystem to speak of. People generally used them because of their communication abilities and hooks like BBM. They started leaving when other platforms, including Android, offered a richer ecosystem and user experience. Again, if BlackBerry could offer all their traditional "goodness" but on top of the Android OS and with access to Google Play, do you really think long time BlackBerry users would pick up a Samsung or LG if they can pick up an Android powered BlackBerry? They would still be much more than a hardware downpipe because they are offering BlackBerry specific hardware design, software and services on top of Android.

Nope. I fail to see how BlackBerry can give out "goodness" without having other companies copy-pasting their own equivalents into it in matter of 3-6 months. Once that 'grace period' is over, competitors will release their own phones with similar goodies, lower prices, and steal the customer base faster than before. Hindsight aside, BlackBerry still holds on to what, double digit millions of subscribers despite losing out so much in the years. They will lose MORE, because they can't compete in the cheap-phones segment. BlackBerry has always leveraged their BIS to offset the so-called "high and fast data consumption" perception of Androids, and was able to hang on. BIS is not yet available for non-BBOS users yet (and still isn't, if I remember correctly). Even then, Android has products like Onavo and (a whole lot of others, if i'm not mistaken) that are already offering BIS-like services for FREE. It gains a lot of headlines, but not in the way that they would dominate 50% of BIS-like services for Android.

Secondly, you're gunning everything on brand loyalty, and brand loyalty, is not a majority in Android. Pinning everything on that perception, then accusing me of painting everyone in Android with one brush, are you not doing the same as well? How can you guarantee that BlackBerry-fied Android users won't ditch BlackBerry because of the poor specs? (Look at the OS6 versions and then put them in COMPARISONS of Android devices till today).

You're basically painting all Android users with a single brush and you're projecting that singular identity on to BlackBerry owners that would switch to an Android powered Berry. A BlackBerry user upgrading to said hypothetical BB-Droid device I would think would be more "loyal" to the brand first.

I respectfully disagree. I beg to really differ on the part about being "loyal to the brand first".

Again you're painting all Android users as the same. Someone coming from BBOS would likely have little interest in rooting and would be use to having a locked down handset anyway.

perhaps you missed the excitement over the couple of times when PlayBook was root-able, you know, the one that actually lit up the forums here in crackberry? I think it was called jingleberry?

I don't believe you have to contribute back to AOSP, but someone more familiar with that end of things could probably tell us.

Again, they are not jumping from BBOS to Android. They are jumping from BBOS to a BB made Android device with BlackBerry features and hooks in it. Big difference.

I'll like to entertain you on this one, ONLY if you write in spesifics what makes a BlackBerry made Android device with BlackBerry features and hooks, and what is Android. I would then see if this is a valid argument. However, as I have pointed over, and over again, there are 3 factors:
a) vanila-android experience.
b) hardware per price factor
c) control over the phone (rooting, skinning, etc)
this have already plagued a lot of Android manufacturers and I don't see how BlackBerry would have been exclusively "mitigated" from such issues. Even Kindle Fire, the so called best selling 7" consumption tablet, had users trying to root it and change the tablet's functions as Amazon-spesific device to whatever the user wants it to be device. Or are you saying that BlackBerry users on that Android are magically "oh no we don't want to root you see, cuz we're BlackBerry!" -esque kind of herded mentality users?

The blog post I think was written from the perspective that BlackBerry and Nokia never dipped into BB10 and Windows Phone, but rather went straight to Android. Going to Android now wouldn't save them in their current condition, but it may have 3 years ago. They have to split off BES10 and BBM now because they have no other choice. They've lost their advantage already. If they switched OS earlier, they could've quite possibly kept BES and BBM as BlackBerry Android exclusive.

Exactly the reason if BB went exclusively Android, BB would have killed itself faster than they can throw in the towel. I have been vehemently critical of the OP post because going full Android is not the magical "save BlackBerry" mojo that many pro-Android romanticizers are saying.

Keeping BES and BBM as BlackBerry Android exclusive wasn't in the grand scheme of the old RIM. Keeping BES users, increasing BES users, I suspect was their main goal all along. In fact they released BES10 much earlier demonstrates this point, over BlackBerry 10. They were gunning on the hopes of having every BlackBerry users 'magically' upgrade their aging BBOS to BB10. Sure, with the double digit subscribers that they have, last was 70 million, no? Having 50% of that, say 35million to upgrade in a span of 6 months (January to June) would have allowed the company to really post a lot of good results on BlackBerry10 being a stellar seller. But how many BlackBerry legacy users were converted into BlackBerry 10 users? I'm one of them that did not, because of the price-point factor (not that I have another phone, as of matter of fact I don't, and I'm still using the trusty Torch 9800 of mine), and there are plenty of factors more. If BlackBerry was gunning for this (we all know the numbers that switched are LOW), how would you EXPECT a so called "blackberry loyalist" to even stay with BlackBerry Android?

Just to point you to a direction as an another parallel argument, look at the newly launched Samsung Galaxy Note 3 versus the just moments ago leaked FCC documents on Google Nexus 5, and already the partisan sides are engaged furiously, despite being of the Android OS. Nitpicking over removable battery, having an S-pen, RAM, vanilla Android and whatnot. Sure, you can have people arguing till the cows go home, but the sales itself would be a better indicator if loyalty means anything in a rapid-ever-upgrading-spec-wars that everyone can see in Android.

Just another: You know the price for a Q5, unlocked right? Let's say it runs Android (so it should compare it hardware wise to HTC Cha-Cha). But let's say you have a heavily BlackBerry skinned Android. Would anyone pay BIS except for those who want it / need it? Besides, the price of that could have buy somebody a frickin Xiaomi MI3 (priced at USD375) which has even better specs, and almost a very good skinned Android to boot. You can even root it to dual boot, change everything that you want to, root it, etc etc. While the Q5 is so locked down, but since its Android, there will be some Android loopholes. At this point all BlackBerry users are part of the Android ecosystem, what can stop an average customer who may want to use a Blackberrified Android Q5 over the Xiaomi Mi3? Loyalty? (when the person's just another average customer, and may not be loyal to anything in particular)


BlackBerrry would have continued to bleed, and would have even lost the war of approaching new customers.

If you really can point out what qualifies as a "BlackBerry-fied Android" in very spesific details, and you can show that it works, I will concede and agree that it will work. Otherwise, its just pure romanticization of Android as a hypothetical messiah that remains hypothethical, romanticized and unpractical. I may even use the word delusional, because I don't see how sentiments alone is capable of saving BlackBerry when it can't even use that to upgrade 50% of its BBOS user-base to BB10.

[BlackBerry Guy]

I fear we are just going round and round, saying the same things in different ways. Your point is understood. I happen to disagree but can still respect what you have to say...you don't need to concede anything. You can ask me for specific details on what a BlackBerry Android device would be like (to which I've already given some ideas in previous posts) and show that it works - but how would I do that with a hypothetical device in a hypothetical situation? I can prove that it works as much as you can prove that it would be a flaming failure.

The great thing about this whole "what if" situation, no one would really know what would've happened...

[badiyee]

I fear we are just going round and round, saying the same things in different ways. Your point is understood. I happen to disagree but can still respect what you have to say...you don't need to concede anything. You can ask me for specific details on what a BlackBerry Android device would be like (to which I've already given some ideas in previous posts) and show that it works - but how would I do that with a hypothetical device in a hypothetical situation? I can prove that it works as much as you can prove that it would be a flaming failure.

The great thing about this whole "what if" situation, no one would really know what would've happened...

You're right. But i'm ONLY vehemently opposed to BlackBerry going full Android in the beginning. I'm not opposed to BlackBerry doing 2 OS, BB10 and BlackBerry-fied Android OS, though going full Android OS in the beginning (as the the OP post) was something I felt that would kill off BlackBerry faster.

I have some very drastic ideas as to what can be done if the BlackBerry runs on 2 OS-es, without killing each another, but then again, its PRETTY DRASTIC. That is not something do-able in the beginning (during that transition period), but with current resources, I believe its do-able. Though, its not to say that it isn't risky (and i'll use my own points against mine) it isn't a guaranteed "safe path".