[JohnGrey]

I doubt that BB is going to dump BB10.

A lot of $$$ was spent to build it and even though the O/S has not taken off as expected, it's not due to the fact that it's bad. It happens to be a great O/S.

The rumor that Qualcomm wants a lot of money to create the drivers may be true, however even if they wanted a million $$$ BB would be crazy if they did not do it.

-Jeff

Even if you have the best OS in the world, you do not pay exorbitant development costs when market share is sub-1% and dropping like a stone year-over-year. That's the very definition of throwing good money after bad. R&D costs are a fact of technology, whether or not they bear lasting fruit. If they want to stay in the handset market, BB10 tangibly goes the way of the dodo. Perhaps Android is running in a hypervisor, perhaps it's a custom ROM with a QNX kernel, perhaps it's just stock Android with the Experience Suite. Whatever the case, in a few short months, Android will become the visible face of Blackberry as it'll be the point of direct interface for the majority of its customers, for good or ill.

[advcomputer]

John,

You may be correct, although I hope you are wrong. John Chen has indicated they they would never use a non-secure version of Android. So how will they secure do this with the Venice?

When I read about the need for more apps, I hope he (JC) is talking about BB10 native apps and not Android. Android like IOS already has millions of apps. IMHO his concern about apps and hopefully putting a mechanism in place to mitigate that problem points to BB10.

-Jeff

[BCITMike]

Even if you have the best OS in the world, you do not pay exorbitant development costs when market share is sub-1% and dropping like a stone year-over-year. That's the very definition of throwing good money after bad. R&D costs are a fact of technology, whether or not they bear lasting fruit. If they want to stay in the handset market, BB10 tangibly goes the way of the dodo. Perhaps Android is running in a hypervisor, perhaps it's a custom ROM with a QNX kernel, perhaps it's just stock Android with the Experience Suite. Whatever the case, in a few short months, Android will become the visible face of Blackberry as it'll be the point of direct interface for the majority of its customers, for good or ill.

They have already spent the lions share of BB10 development on up front costs and licensing. The first year would have been the biggest kick in the teeth. Should be less and less each year.

If they targetting BB10 to the government and medical industries, it could work. These need highly secure, locked down ecosystems that likely can't use many consumer applications. Having long support would be ideal, where that isn't happening with iOS (they'd be happy to tell you "sorry, you HAVE to upgrade if you want that feature to work again") or Android, where only Nexus devices tend to get current support and everything else is 'best effort'.

Windows 7 is into extended support now. No new features, just bug fixes. There is still a significant market share with Win 7, and still new installations every day for companies who don't want to or can't transition to a fast moving OS that may/will break from time to time. Or are just concerned that the privacy is constantly under attack.

BlackBerry has the government industry, now they need to BUILD UP the medical industry so that it conquers and owns that space. That will support the BB10 OS support. They are working hard to own the medical industry.

[JohnGrey]

They have already spent the lions share of BB10 development on up front costs and licensing. The first year would have been the biggest kick in the teeth. Should be less and less each year.

I was referring to the Qualcomm driver scenario, not to cost of in-house development.

If they targetting BB10 to the government and medical industries, it could work. These need highly secure, locked down ecosystems that likely can't use many consumer applications. Having long support would be ideal, where that isn't happening with iOS (they'd be happy to tell you "sorry, you HAVE to upgrade if you want that feature to work again") or Android, where only Nexus devices tend to get current support and everything else is 'best effort'.

Windows 7 is into extended support now. No new features, just bug fixes. There is still a significant market share with Win 7, and still new installations every day for companies who don't want to or can't transition to a fast moving OS that may/will break from time to time. Or are just concerned that the privacy is constantly under attack.

BlackBerry has the government industry, now they need to BUILD UP the medical industry so that it conquers and owns that space. That will support the BB10 OS support. They are working hard to own the medical industry.

BBRY is finally realising that even if you do one thing really well, it isn't enough to float a business, to say nothing of making profitable and attractive to investment. But, by all means, continue the BB10-can-flourish-if-X zealotry. Someone far more important than me might be interested.

[JohnGrey]

John,

You may be correct, although I hope you are wrong. John Chen has indicated they they would never use a non-secure version of Android. So how will they secure do this with the Venice?

People trying to get your money or keep it say lots of things to do so, whether it's a business or a government, and the more vehemently and passionately they're repeated, the more likely that they're categorically false.. Remember that WMDs are in Iraq and BB10 is coming to the PlayBook.

When I read about the need for more apps, I hope he (JC) is talking about BB10 native apps and not Android. Android like IOS already has millions of apps. IMHO his concern about apps and hopefully putting a mechanism in place to mitigate that problem points to BB10.

-Jeff

He isn't talking about native apps, and they aren't coming. It's not about money spent, it's about marketshare. App developers attract VC based on the size of their user base, not their productivity footprint. If John Chen, and BBRY at large, were at all interested in native development, they would not be telling developers to commit their efforts to Android. Native app development is a lost battle.

[BCITMike]

I was referring to the Qualcomm driver scenario, not to cost of in-house development.



BBRY is finally realising that even if you do one thing really well, it isn't enough to float a business, to say nothing of making profitable and attractive to investment. But, by all means, continue the BB10-can-flourish-if-X zealotry. Someone far more important than me might be interested.

I don't have the details on the driver development scenario/rumours, I suspect that's not correct/accurate. What is considered exorbitant? Low few million, at worst. Couple hundred grand at best. Expectation would be that Qualcomm provides documentation and their source code for their drivers. BlackBerry adapts for their platform, reusing or adapting Qualcomm's source code for changes. Qualcomm is garbage for documentation, though.

[anon(8865116)]

Not unless android can get the same certifications as bb10 in nato + DoD... Should be a while before that happens (2 years?)

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Not unless android can get the same certifications as bb10 in nato + DoD... Should be a while before that happens (2 years?)

I know BlackBerry got certifications.... how many BB10 devices have they sold to NATO & DoD?

BB10 might be the best product in the world... but if Chen is losing money on it, he is going to lose it.

Maybe BB10 comes back as part of some $2000 secusmart super secure phone..... But the days of $400 BB10 powered devices is over.

[Tre Lawrence]

Not unless android can get the same certifications as bb10 in nato + DoD... Should be a while before that happens (2 years?)

Which certs? FIPS? Because select Android and iOS devices have had that for a while.

[GadgetTravel]

Which certs? FIPS? Because select Android and iOS devices have had that for a while.

Didn't the U.S. Navy switch to iPhones some time ago? I thought no remembered reading something about that.

[Jordan Gibson1]

If I'm not mistaken, but it sounded like Mr. Chen said flat out that if handsets didn't workout by a time he didn't say outloud he wouldn't keep pushing it. BlackBerry is IOT focused now, not handsets. I do think he's got some ace in the hole in terms of a secure BlackBerry software to secure the android environment and use that to complete the IOT company BlackBerry now is.

Posted via CB10

[maranr]

I think BB10 has some kind of future . I am not sure they would have released the latest Passport if not.

Posted via CB10

[lnichols]

I think BB10 has some kind of future . I am not sure they would have released the latest Passport if not.

Posted via CB10

Bla1ze stated on an Upstream podcast that he was pretty sure the SE Passport was made by mistake. Implied it was developed for a carrier that turned out not to pick it up.

Posted via Z30

[Witmen]

I doubt that BB is going to dump BB10.

A lot of $$$ was spent to build it and even though the O/S has not taken off as expected, it's not due to the fact that it's bad. It happens to be a great O/S.

The saying "cut your losses" exists for a reason. Eventually, you may have to give up and walk away from a project, no matter how much you have already invested.

Look at HP's experiment with WebOS. They spent money, they had a great OS and after it didn't take off, they cut their losses.

The difference is BlackBerry was either to ignorant or to arrogant to do the same. After the PlayBook failure, the popular question was "can they finish and launch BlackBerry 10?", but people should have been asking if they should do it.

Looking back it, clearly the answer was no. BB10 should have never happened. It was a mistake investing all of that money into a platform that had no chance of being successful.

The only way a third platform will be successful and gain significant market share is for Google and Apple to screw up in a huge way.

HP figured that out quick and they dropped WebOS before it could damage them further. BlackBerry kept at it and nearly allowed their unwanted platform to kill them.

Chen and BlackBerry's other leaders are even stupider than I could have ever imagined if BB10 isn't dead at this point.

[GadgetTravel]

The saying "cut your losses" exists for a reason. Eventually, you may have to give up and walk away from a project, no matter how much you have already invested.

Look at HP's experiment with WebOS. They spent money, they had a great OS and after it didn't take off, they cut their losses.

The difference is BlackBerry was either to ignorant or to arrogant to do the same. After the PlayBook failure, the popular question was "can they finish and launch BlackBerry 10?", but people should have been asking if they should do it.

Looking back it, clearly the answer was no. BB10 should have never happened. It was a mistake investing all of that money into a platform that had no chance of being successful.

The only way a third platform will be successful and gain significant market share is for Google and Apple to screw up in a huge way.

HP figured that out quick and they dropped WebOS before it could damage them further. BlackBerry kept at it and nearly allowed their unwanted platform to kill them.

Chen and BlackBerry's other leaders are even stupider than I could have ever imagined if BB10 isn't dead at this point.

Nokia made the same mistake in keeping Symbian. It was doomed but they rode it until it took out the whole company. They kept saying how superior it was to Android the whole time as well.

[sentimentGX4]

Nokia made the same mistake in keeping Symbian. It was doomed but they rode it until it took out the whole company. They kept saying how superior it was to Android the whole time as well.

Symbian didn't take out the whole company. Nokia is still around as a networking giant (worth ~$23 billion) and it successfully sold its mobile handset division for 5.4 billion euros. That's more than what the entire BBRY is worth!

In retrospect, Elop was actually a excellent, visionary CEO due to his ability to broker deals with MSFT. BBRY wishes it got billions of dollars for its handset division and it probably could have at some point. Also, if Nokia had went Android there would be a high chance it would go the way of either Motorola or HTC.

Nokia quit the handset business while it was ahead and knew when to cut losses. It simply didn't have the talent to compete with Samsung, LG, or the hoards of cutthroat Chinese OEMs. (It couldn't churn out good devices at breakneck 1-year cycles like the Asians.)

[howarmat]

Bla1ze stated on an Upstream podcast that he was pretty sure the SE Passport was made by mistake. Implied it was developed for a carrier that turned out not to pick it up.

Posted via Z30

yep something like that

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

yep something like that

Now that makes sense... sort of.

Can't really see the purpose of the SE... but then I can't see making a devcie without someone paying for it in advance.

[howarmat]

Now that makes sense... sort of.

Can't really see the purpose of the SE... but then I can't see making a devcie without someone paying for it in advance.

thats why its something like that lol

[DrBoomBotz]

thats why its something like that lol

Does that mean someone paid for it and then didn't carry it?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Too bad it wasn't Verizon....

[howarmat]

Thought this would be relevant to put here

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-10-os-f269/native-sdk-product-manager-just-left-bbry-1039475/

[Uzi]

Thought this would be relevant to put here

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-10-os-f269/native-sdk-product-manager-just-left-bbry-1039475/

#RIP BB10

[Fernando Martin]

Symbian didn't take out the whole company. Nokia is still around as a networking giant (worth ~$23 billion) and it successfully sold its mobile handset division for 5.4 billion euros. That's more than what the entire BBRY is worth!

In retrospect, Elop was actually a excellent, visionary CEO due to his ability to broker deals with MSFT. BBRY wishes it got billions of dollars for its handset division and it probably could have at some point. Also, if Nokia had went Android there would be a high chance it would go the way of either Motorola or HTC.

Nokia quit the handset business while it was ahead and knew when to cut losses. It simply didn't have the talent to compete with Samsung, LG, or the hoards of cutthroat Chinese OEMs. (It couldn't churn out good devices at breakneck 1-year cycles like the Asians.)

The problem that Blackberry is facing is that the masses could care less about productivity and security. Smartphones are toys for the masses and Blackberry is not a toy. Apple has penetrated into its business market and Android is also starting to do the same. My hope is that Blackberry does bring out an ordinary android line of phones no more secure than any other android phone, and then hopefully BBOS can be carried on the back of their android line.

[Elephant_Canyon]

but tools not toys!

Oh, please. How many times has this argument been refuted? I lost count a long time ago.