[RyanGermann]

I think the roadmap initiative was simply to put to rest the concerns that BB10 shipped too fast and it was "done"... all of the unfinished business from 10.0.0 was publicly announced and scheduled etc. and everything on that roadmap eventually "landed" and they've since gone beyond what was on the public roadmap so... I think this is a tempest in a teapot.

[BlackberryFan777]

They may simply be playing close to the vest. Just because they haven't made the road map public, does not necessarily mean anything.

Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.680

I agree with this, but I also am starting to believe BB10 may be replaced by Android soon. Why?

(1) Chen never talks about BB10. I mean he talks about "devices" and "hardware," but he doesn't talk about BlackBerry building a platform and the value of BB10 in different mobile computing contexts the way his predecessor and Mike L. did. If he only did it a little bit, it might seem just a little odd, but he never talks about it.

(2) A big part of the BB10 platform was the native Qt 4.8 libraries and the cascades objects built on top of it all. But, Qt has been improved considerably in a somewhat non-backwards compatible update to Qt 5. That means, in some ways, QML is now better for iOS and Android than it is for BB. If BB updates the system to Qt5 for newer apps and retains compatibility for older apps, the OS gets really bloated. If it simply moves to Qt5, it potentially breaks support for older apps. The TAT team was responsible for the cascades layer on top of Qt.

(3) Chen has already announced that he's porting BB10's differentiators to Android: The Hub, PIM, etc. Why would someone buy BB10 if most of the BB10 experience is available on a platform with a larger ecosystem? It sounds as if Chen isn't trying to compete with BB10.

(4) As a corollary to this, it's a little hard to point out the real world benefits of QNX as a kernel. Is there something that my BB10 device can do because it uses QNX that it couldn't do if it used the Android kernel? I'm not sure, but at this point, I kind of doubt it. Performance and technical reasons might argue in support of QNX, but what practical benefit is there to end users? The challenge for this CEO and his predecessor was to turn that technical advantage into a real world benefit, but for all the talk of "IoT and mobile computing" we haven't seen much applicable to end users of BB10. Other than security and Google, why not switch to Android?

(5) BB10 dev support slowed to a crawl after Chen arrived and much of the BB10 team left including the head of developer relations. As the top-poster said, most developer outreach is about Android app development these days.

(6) Chen negotiated to install an Android app store on the devices. (Amazon)

(7) BlackBerry's Gary Klassen no longer holds the title of "Principle Architect" of BlackBerry 10. A *lot* of the team responsible for BlackBerry 10 is gone. Not a few, but a *lot*. This includes: the head QNX kernal programer, the torch web browser team, the Cascades / TAT guys, the people who designed and developed the Hub, the PIM / Calendar guys, the most visible developer relations team members, etc., etc. New job announcements have included "Android app development" as a key skill. If BB10 is still the future, who is building it?

SO, it's definitely not clear that BB10 is doomed, but it kind of looks like it. I would love to see BB10 continue to be developed for a host of reasons, but BlackBerry isn't sending a lot of signals that it is committed to doing so.

[FincoApps]

BB10 is not dead mehn

[Richard Buckley]

I was just asking a hypothetical.

I was more thinking about technologies like SecuTablet and the like.

Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.680

As Chen said, (to paraphrase) he can make others' products more secure, but for the best security he has to produce BlackBerry handsets.

A couple will buy the best security, but more will want some security. So BlackBerry, IBM and Samsung offer a more secure Android tablet. BlackBerry will teach you how to write more secure Android applications, which will run on plain Android, the SecuTablet or BB10. The fact that BlackBerry is being pragmatic about making money in the current market is not evidence that they can't make more money in a future market that they may be able to help shape. This is a bit change from the RIM days where they tried to tell everyone what they needed.



Z10STL100-3/10.3.1.2708 SR 10.3.1.1865

[paulwallace1234]

I agree with this, but I also am starting to believe BB10 may be replaced by Android soon. Why?

(1) Chen never talks about BB10. I mean he talks about "devices" and "hardware," but he doesn't talk about BlackBerry building a platform and the value of BB10 in different mobile computing contexts the way his predecessor and Mike L. did. If he only did it a little bit, it might seem just a little odd, but he never talks about it.

(2) A big part of the BB10 platform was the native Qt 4.8 libraries and the cascades objects built on top of it all. But, Qt has been improved considerably in a somewhat non-backwards compatible update to Qt 5. That means, in some ways, QML is now better for iOS and Android than it is for BB. If BB updates the system to Qt5 for newer apps and retains compatibility for older apps, the OS gets really bloated. If it simply moves to Qt5, it potentially breaks support for older apps. The TAT team was responsible for the cascades layer on top of Qt.

(3) Chen has already announced that he's porting BB10's differentiators to Android: The Hub, PIM, etc. Why would someone buy BB10 if most of the BB10 experience is available on a platform with a larger ecosystem? It sounds as if Chen isn't trying to compete with BB10.

(4) As a corollary to this, it's a little hard to point out the real world benefits of QNX as a kernel. Is there something that my BB10 device can do because it uses QNX that it couldn't do if it used the Android kernel? I'm not sure, but at this point, I kind of doubt it. Performance and technical reasons might argue in support of QNX, but what practical benefit is there to end users? The challenge for this CEO and his predecessor was to turn that technical advantage into a real world benefit, but for all the talk of "IoT and mobile computing" we haven't seen much applicable to end users of BB10. Other than security and Google, why not switch to Android?

(5) BB10 dev support slowed to a crawl after Chen arrived and much of the BB10 team left including the head of developer relations. As the top-poster said, most developer outreach is about Android app development these days.

(6) Chen negotiated to install an Android app store on the devices. (Amazon)

(7) BlackBerry's Gary Klassen no longer holds the title of "Principle Architect" of BlackBerry 10. A *lot* of the team responsible for BlackBerry 10 is gone. Not a few, but a *lot*. This includes: the head QNX kernal programer, the torch web browser team, the Cascades / TAT guys, the people who designed and developed the Hub, the PIM / Calendar guys, the most visible developer relations team members, etc., etc. New job announcements have included "Android app development" as a key skill. If BB10 is still the future, who is building it?

SO, it's definitely not clear that BB10 is doomed, but it kind of looks like it. I would love to see BB10 continue to be developed for a host of reasons, but BlackBerry isn't sending a lot of signals that it is committed to doing so.

I have a bad feeling they are going to go down to the Nokia Symbian Path and outsource the development to an external company, it's actually looking like the route Nokia took.

[ozdezignr]

.... and here we are with another "we are all doomed" thread...

[pkcable]

[LuvULongTime]

These kinds of threads seem popular around here. We have seen them a number of times already. It particularly reminds me of a thread that stated that there will be no BB10 10.3, because there was "no evidence of such". Previously we had received advanced notice of an upcoming 10.2, and because we were not getting advanced notice of 10.3 - that proved it wasn't coming. That was the proof that the development was halted and there would be no 10.3. Of course 10.3 came - and 10.3.1, and now 10.3.2 on the way. Here was the thread -
http://forums.crackberry.com/general...10-3-a-860652/

The premise behind that thread - in my opinion - is similar to this thread. A change in policy by BB about disclosure of plans in advance, and people reading a lot into that. (The must be NO plans then)

There were threads that BBM cross-platform was CANCELLED, because that thread starter saw no evidence that is was coming. All the proof he needed - but wrong as we now know.

I don't know why the road map is not there. It could mean something. It might mean nothing. The road map could be in flux - maybe even being heavily debated internally - who knows. I do know that changes in BlackBerry policy about such "advanced notice" - as history has shown - is not really proof of much. Time will tell.

Posted via CB10

Great post! :clap:

Folks need to go and read the thread that jhimmel linked. I did, and could not stop laughing and shaking my head. All the reasons why we would not see an OS 10.3, and yet we are all now running it on our devices. This thread is no different. As others have stated, please show me Apple and Google's detailed road maps for iOS and Android. I would love to see them. Chen is not a fan of leaks, and by extension I would also guess public road maps that give away your plans to the competition.

[Norg]

Great post! :clap:

Folks need to go and read the thread that jhimmel linked. I did, and could not stop laughing and shaking my head. All the reasons why we would not see an OS 10.3, and yet we are all now running it on our devices. This thread is no different. As others have stated, please show me Apple and Google's detailed road maps for iOS and Android. I would love to see them. Chen is not a fan of leaks, and by extension I would also guess public road maps that give away your plans to the competition.

Well said and solid logic. Once worked for a guy like him...

Posted from my Kick@ss AT&T Passport.

[Bluenoser63]

Great post! :clap:

Folks need to go and read the thread that jhimmel linked. I did, and could not stop laughing and shaking my head. All the reasons why we would not see an OS 10.3, and yet we are all now running it on our devices. This thread is no different. As others have stated, please show me Apple and Google's detailed road maps for iOS and Android. I would love to see them. Chen is not a fan of leaks, and by extension I would also guess public road maps that give away your plans to the competition.

Apple and Google have their developers conferences shortly. Please tell me when the next BlackBerry developers conference is and check when the last one was. That will tell you the future of BB10.

[BCITMike]

Really? I am running Windows 10 on a laptop and started developing Windows 10 apps for mobile devices on emulators. I guess you don't call that a road map.

No, that is not a road map. In fact, your reply makes no sense and tells me you don't know what a roadmap is. A roadmap isn't you "developing", its a rough plan of what THEY are developing and when they think it will be released. On top of that, you are using the argument of an unreleased product that needs heavy development, which is the same reason BlackBerry had public roadmap for developers! This is a point made many times now...

Any "roadmaps" from Microsoft are accidental leaks. They haven't even provided an official release date for Win10 (ETA due in 2 months!), only a leak of a roadmap by a partner tells us!

I can't show you any proper road maps from very large companies because I am under NDA. As will most road maps be in technology. Think of it as a powerpoint presentation, showing a timeline with products/features over the timeline, with strategies or additional info (ie, competitive feature/advantage) in the margins to give a narrative of the product launch.

A lot of us are getting frustrated, like we're talking to a wall. Just post the current roadmaps from Android, Microsoft and Apple and I think we'll all shut up. I'll wait.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_roadmap

A technology roadmap is a plan that matches short-term and long-term goals with specific technology solutions to help meet those goals.[1] It is a plan that applies to a new product or process, or to an emerging technology.[2] Developing a roadmap has three major uses.[3] It helps reach a consensus about a set of needs and the technologies required to satisfy those needs; it provides a mechanism to help forecast technology developments and it provides a framework to help plan and coordinate technology developments.

[Bluenoser63]

https://developer.blackberry.com/nat...loads/roadmap/

TBD..

And I will wait to see your answer on when the next developer conference is for BlackBerry. Apple and Google have them coming up.

No, that is not a road map. In fact, your reply makes no sense and tells me you don't know what a roadmap is. A roadmap isn't you "developing", its a rough plan of what THEY are developing and when they think it will be released. On top of that, you are using the argument of an unreleased product that needs heavy development, which is the same reason BlackBerry had public roadmap for developers! This is a point made many times now...

Any "roadmaps" from Microsoft are accidental leaks. They haven't even provided an official release date for Win10 (ETA due in 2 months!), only a leak of a roadmap by a partner tells us!

I can't show you any proper road maps from very large companies because I am under NDA. As will most road maps be in technology. Think of it as a powerpoint presentation, showing a timeline with products/features over the timeline, with strategies or additional info (ie, competitive feature/advantage) in the margins to give a narrative of the product launch.

A lot of us are getting frustrated, like we're talking to a wall. Just post the current roadmaps from Android, Microsoft and Apple and I think we'll all shut up. I'll wait.

Technology roadmap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Uzi]

I agreed with bluenoser native app kind of abandoned by BlackBerry, no new api/sdk, bad relationship with developer.
Disappointed with the progress of native apps

Z30STA100-2/10.3.2.680

[BCITMike]

https://developer.blackberry.com/nat...loads/roadmap/

TBD..

And I will wait to see your answer on when the next developer conference is for BlackBerry. Apple and Google have them coming up.

Future releases are still in planning stages. Check back again for updates.

When they change TBD to "cancelled", you will be right. Until then, you're just Chicken Little ranting.

When they close down the beta site rather than sending out fresh invites, then you'll be right. But guess what? I get fresh invites frequently, the last one this past week.

Developer conferences are expensive. They cancelled the last one last year and scaled down the event before that over the previous year. Does that mean BB10 stopped development last year and died 6+ months ago?

When you are targeting consumer users, it makes sense to have a public developer conference. When they are focusing on secure enterprises, is a developer conference needed, or just amongst partners?

Ok, so now your problem isn't the lack of roadmap, because BB had one and Apple and Google do not, you change your argument to when developer conference is being held next? Thin man, thin.

[BCITMike]

I agreed with bluenoser native app kind of abandoned by BlackBerry, no new api/sdk, bad relationship with developer.
Disappointed with the progress of native apps

Z30STA100-2/10.3.2.680

You have a point. 10.3.1 Gold was released Nov 18, 2014 and 6 months would be the longest time between an SDK update. But it's not like its way behind, it just missing a 10.3.2 SDK of a few months late... But I hate it when there is releases just for the sake of it without much need. If there isn't anything requiring a new SDK, its not likely to have a hard release date.

Most likely, it's gated by new device support and will be seen just before the next device gets launched.

[ljfong]

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Give me a rundown of what's planned for iOS 9 and the roadmap for example. Sure, there's rumours but nothing official. Does that mean that Apple is abandoning iOS?

Incomparable. No one knows for sure but the chance of BB10 abandonment by BlackBerry is simply much much higher than say iOS by Apple don't you think? One is modestly successful at best for which its existence the CEO seems to be reluctant to acknowledge. One is so successful that it is propping its maker to be one of the most valuable companies on planet earth.

Posted via CB10

[Bluenoser63]

You have a point. 10.3.1 Gold was released Nov 18, 2014 and 6 months would be the longest time between an SDK update. But it's not like its way behind, it just missing a 10.3.2 SDK of a few months late... But I hate it when there is releases just for the sake of it without much need. If there isn't anything requiring a new SDK, its not likely to have a hard release date.

Most likely, it's gated by new device support and will be seen just before the next device gets launched.

Problem is that there are a lot of features that are needed for programming Enterprise applications for native BB10 apps. Do you know that there isn't any good charting or graphing in Cascades? How do you write good enterprise applications without charting and graphing? SVG support is partial. Qt5 has been out for a while and Cascades is Qt4.8. QNX Car supports Qt5 ( this points to BB10 future features being abandoned ) JavaScript performance in Native apps is not very good so charting in that is poor.

Chen rarely talks about BB10 and all focus is on Amazon and Android apps. All signs in the developer community and I have followed BB10 app development since the beginning. I have my LE Red Z10. The writing is on the wall and BB10 will be limited to bug fixes and small changes, but new development tools and updated libraries like Qt5 are not going to happen. I would love to be proved wrong, but a year from now, nothing will have changed in developing native apps for BB10. It has been abandoned.

[Norg]

I agree with this, but I also am starting to believe BB10 may be replaced by Android soon. Why?

(1) Chen never talks about BB10. I mean he talks about "devices" and "hardware," but he doesn't talk about BlackBerry building a platform and the value of BB10 in different mobile computing contexts the way his predecessor and Mike L. did. If he only did it a little bit, it might seem just a little odd, but he never talks about it.

(2) A big part of the BB10 platform was the native Qt 4.8 libraries and the cascades objects built on top of it all. But, Qt has been improved considerably in a somewhat non-backwards compatible update to Qt 5. That means, in some ways, QML is now better for iOS and Android than it is for BB. If BB updates the system to Qt5 for newer apps and retains compatibility for older apps, the OS gets really bloated. If it simply moves to Qt5, it potentially breaks support for older apps. The TAT team was responsible for the cascades layer on top of Qt.

(3) Chen has already announced that he's porting BB10's differentiators to Android: The Hub, PIM, etc. Why would someone buy BB10 if most of the BB10 experience is available on a platform with a larger ecosystem? It sounds as if Chen isn't trying to compete with BB10.

(4) As a corollary to this, it's a little hard to point out the real world benefits of QNX as a kernel. Is there something that my BB10 device can do because it uses QNX that it couldn't do if it used the Android kernel? I'm not sure, but at this point, I kind of doubt it. Performance and technical reasons might argue in support of QNX, but what practical benefit is there to end users? The challenge for this CEO and his predecessor was to turn that technical advantage into a real world benefit, but for all the talk of "IoT and mobile computing" we haven't seen much applicable to end users of BB10. Other than security and Google, why not switch to Android?

(5) BB10 dev support slowed to a crawl after Chen arrived and much of the BB10 team left including the head of developer relations. As the top-poster said, most developer outreach is about Android app development these days.

(6) Chen negotiated to install an Android app store on the devices. (Amazon)

(7) BlackBerry's Gary Klassen no longer holds the title of "Principle Architect" of BlackBerry 10. A *lot* of the team responsible for BlackBerry 10 is gone. Not a few, but a *lot*. This includes: the head QNX kernal programer, the torch web browser team, the Cascades / TAT guys, the people who designed and developed the Hub, the PIM / Calendar guys, the most visible developer relations team members, etc., etc. New job announcements have included "Android app development" as a key skill. If BB10 is still the future, who is building it?

SO, it's definitely not clear that BB10 is doomed, but it kind of looks like it. I would love to see BB10 continue to be developed for a host of reasons, but BlackBerry isn't sending a lot of signals that it is committed to doing so.

Seriously, you should have a career as an an investigative reporter or a conspiracy theorist... do you always read between the lines?? Give it a break already...whether it happens or not, it is what it is man and will be will be!! Deal with it...and guess what, the sun still rises in the east the day after whatever happens.

Posted from my Kick@ss AT&T Passport.

[Norg]

Seriously, you should have a career as an an investigative reporter or a conspiracy theorist... do you always read between the lines?? Give it a break already...whether it happens or not, it is what it is man and what will be will be!! Deal with it...and guess what, the sun still rises in the east the day after whatever happens.

Posted from my Kick@ss AT&T Passport.

[Norg]

I truly admire your passion for BlackBerry, I share it too, but at the end of the day it's nothing more than a business and so long as it's viable and gets airplay, it will exist. I too took everything so personally once upon a time, buts let's face it, the people at the top don't seem to give a rats arse. Just saying...

Posted from my Kick@ss AT&T Passport.

[Soapm]

do you always read between the lines?? .

The letters give me headaches...

[Brewer James]

I think BlackBerry is exiting the consumer market and only focusing the business side.

[eyesopen1111]

Problem is that there are a lot of features that are needed for programming Enterprise applications for native BB10 apps. Do you know that there isn't any good charting or graphing in Cascades? How do you write good enterprise applications without charting and graphing? SVG support is partial. Qt5 has been out for a while and Cascades is Qt4.8. QNX Car supports Qt5 ( this points to BB10 future features being abandoned ) JavaScript performance in Native apps is not very good so charting in that is poor.

Chen rarely talks about BB10 and all focus is on Amazon and Android apps. All signs in the developer community and I have followed BB10 app development since the beginning. I have my LE Red Z10. The writing is on the wall and BB10 will be limited to bug fixes and small changes, but new development tools and updated libraries like Qt5 are not going to happen. I would love to be proved wrong, but a year from now, nothing will have changed in developing native apps for BB10. It has been abandoned.

^^THIS^^

Man, it is time to connect the dots already. All signs have pointed, and continue to point, to the conclusion that Chen wants out of BB10 and the loss-making handset bushiness. I started a thread asking how long people thought Chen would stay in handsets and the answer appears to be �not very long.�

Let's review some highlights. First, Chen tells us that BlackBerry is �still losing money� in handsets. Next, he complains about how expensive BlackBerry's handset effort is. Then, in news that only surprised those who still believe that Chen wants to stay in the handset business, Chen announces a surprise round of layoffs in the, wait for it, HANDSET business. But Chen had been so steadfast in his protests that he meant for BlackBerry to stay in the handset business, why ruin the �illusion� now? Here's a thought:

The purpose of Chen's strategic deception of pretending to be committed to handsets was to give software more time to grow revenue. Importantly, last earnings report, handsets accounted for 42% of BlackBerry's revenue, so Chen is in a delicate situation of needing to appear committed to handsets (so the market doesn�t freak out and devalue BlackBerry) while actually needing to divest away from loss-making handsets that eat resources. Chen knows that he cannot finance a smartphone contender with the meager sums brought in by software's 60 million in revenue as of the last earnings report, and smartphones are losing the company money, so time is not on his side.

So why would Chen blow his cover now? The gig is up. BB10 is dead/stagnant and Chen knows that he can�t sell any more BB10 phones to enterprise because it�s clear that BlackBerry's leaving the space, has a weak device portfolio, and is running the weakest OS/ecosystem. Chen knows how bad the sales numbers are and that they are getting tougher and tougher to hide as BBOS sales diminish and BB10 PKB phones (Classic and Passport) and Leap just aren�t selling nearly enough. At this point, why pay good money to try and maintain a hopeless illusion of keeping handsets going when he can try to focus on selling BES or whatever.

We�ll see, but that's what it looks like to me...

[KermEd]

...Do you know that there isn't any good charting or graphing in Cascades? How do you write good enterprise applications without charting and graphing? SVG support is partial. Qt5 has been out for a while and Cascades is Qt4.8. QNX Car supports Qt5 ( this points to BB10 future features being abandoned ) ...

Just adding they abandoned QT5 development. Which, interestingly, is the backbone for Cascades and the only way for them to upgrade Cascades to have graph and chart support.

Posted to CB via my Passport | FileArchiveHaven

[Hazo]

BB10 is officially dead. I heard it from the 3rd cousin of the wife of an Executive Assistant's Gardener.

I can't decide if you guys are really on the Short Bus, or simply don't have a life, and need some validity to your lives to overcome the fact that you know nothing, but need to be "right". Wow.