[BeowulfTheGeat]

Just creating this thread as a place to dump my own questions and concerns...feel free to join in, or not, as the spirit moves you...

In my mind at the moment is the continuing conversations regarding a consumer focus v an enterprise focus. On one side, we have consumers crying out for no pins on BBM, and plenty of 'super phones' for the touchscreen fans, etc., and on the other, we have folks calling for a retreat from the consumer space almost entirely, with a focus on software.

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle. BlackBerry need to secure their base, which is on enterprise. However, I think a lot of the enterprise crew underestimate how important the consumer space is to the enterprise space. BlackBerry didn't go into cardiac arrest simply because of enterprise problems, and much of the challenge in securing enterprise has been a lack of presence in the consumer space.

So, what is the right balance? In my view, it is a solid and evolving enterprise space, with a strong focus simultaneously on growing the consumer user base. This is something the Passport cannot do, and something the Classic cannot do either. Those phones are very important, but we should also be hoping for an underpriced touchscreen that consumers will casually go for because it's cheaper than the spec-equivalent Android or iPhone, and has a different and perhaps attractive (to them) OS.

Not everyone can be expected to be a mobile phone buff, and BlackBerry need to make it easy for people to choose BlackBerry 10. Do we think the next touchscreen will be targeted at these people. I think it will, actually. The question, I think will be the price. If BlackBerry are brave enough to release a touchscreen basically at cost, in addition to a couple high end devices, I think they'll be in their way back into the consumer space in 2015 in a slow but steady way.

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

Just creating this thread as a place to dump my own questions and concerns...feel free to join in, or not, as the spirit moves you...

In my mind at the moment is the continuing conversations regarding a consumer focus v an enterprise focus. On one side, we have consumers crying out for no pins on BBM, and plenty of 'super phones' for the touchscreen fans, etc., and on the other, we have folks calling for a retreat from the consumer space almost entirely, with a focus on software.

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle. BlackBerry need to secure their base, which is on enterprise. However, I think a lot of the enterprise crew underestimate how important the consumer space is to the enterprise space. BlackBerry didn't go into cardiac arrest simply because of enterprise problems, and much of the challenge in securing enterprise has been a lack of presence in the consumer space.

So, what is the right balance? In my view, it is a solid and evolving enterprise space, with a strong focus simultaneously on growing the consumer user base. This is something the Passport cannot do, and something the Classic cannot do either. Those phones are very important, but we should also be hoping for an underpriced touchscreen that consumers will casually go for because it's cheaper than the spec-equivalent Android or iPhone, and has a different and perhaps attractive (to them) OS.

Not everyone can be expected to be a mobile phone buff, and BlackBerry need to make it easy for people to choose BlackBerry 10. Do we think the next touchscreen will be targeted at these people. I think it will, actually. The question, I think will be the price. If BlackBerry are brave enough to release a touchscreen basically at cost, in addition to a couple high end devices, I think they'll be in their way back into the consumer space in 2015 in a slow but steady way.

Posted via CB10

The size of the business at its heydays was clearly relying on a lot of purchases from the consumer space, so once that fell away due to the rise of iPhone and Android, BBRY (RIM) started to get in trouble, because revenue dropped.

Now the new BlackBerry more clearly reflects the size of the (underlying corporate focused) business. Just a thought. Maybe that's the size that is achievable in Enterprise / government right now. As the importance of mobile and security grows, so will BlackBerry, but as you said, to vastly grow beyond the current size, the consumer or prosumer market will need to be tackled again...

:-)


�   A berry good start and God's blessing to all in 2015 ...   �

[BeowulfTheGeat]

Yeah, it seems that there is still a great deal of apprehension regarding BlackBerry from enterprise. I've always understood why BlackBerry declared that they will focusing on the enterprise space instead of the consumer space. This is a good line for the public, but this anti-bb public sentiment, which stems from a lack of consumer success, remains like a cast iron lid on the development and growth of the company as a whole.

For two years now, many of us have been railing against the the corrupt, anti-bb media, et al., but the world is what it is and we all have to play on the field in front of us, and not a greener one somewhere over a horizon or rainbow. I do worry that despite all the great things Chen has done, he hasn't perhaps put the consumer space in its proper context at times. Overall, he is obviously doing very well, but I am hoping to see a device lineup in March that clearly aims to satisfy both enterprise and the common consumer. I think many of us would be surprised by how much the average person doesn't know about these little smartly wars. Millions of people simply aren't aware, and that actually a good thing for BlackBerry in 2015. I could be wrong, but I think entreprise is going to face a continued resistance until BlackBerry regains a decent place, if small, in the consumer world.

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

Consumers want:

- Apps
- Social
- Music
- Video
- Entertainment in general
- ease of use
- specs ...?
- reputation / brand name / status
- battery life
- design
- ...

Can BlackBerry deliver...?


�   2015 - already in full swing - berry good ...   �

[BeowulfTheGeat]

I think so. Apps is the problem. The deal with Amazon helped, but the challenge is getting native apps as a norm of course. That's got to come from a proper user base. BlackBerry are going to have to pay for this. If I were them, I would release the Z3 or whatever it is to be called at cost. They don't need to make money on that particular phone. They should continue with high end, and perhaps unique devices like the Passport, but also have a really cheap consumer device out there priced to expand the user base, not to make money.

I think they also need to loosen up on the supply chain. These sellouts are not great news, even though some of us in here get excited about them. It's one thing to sellout your pre-order lot, but another to keep having problems keeping up with sales.

I think BlackBerry CAN do it. The question I have is whether they have the confidence to do so. They've been shaken by the consumer side of things and seem quite hesitant to take on such risk. A cheap Z3 soon would be a good start to 2015. Hopefully it will happen soon, and actually be cheap. I suspect that they will price it just a bit too high to be honest.

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

.....
A cheap Z3 soon would be a good start to 2015. Hopefully it will happen soon, and actually be cheap. I suspect that they will price it just a bit too high to be honest.

Posted via CB10

... as long as it's not
"Too d*nm high...!" ;-)

Let's stay serious in this thread. Yeah, a cheap phone for a bit of market share wouldn't hurt. But those 1.5GB RAM with 4 only apps open have to go. I could use a second page or a few more split Active frame halves on my Passport...

It's got 3GB, currently sitting at 2.5 with over 60 tabs open, CB, Amazon Appstore, Settings, Phone, Printhand...




�   2015 - already in full swing - berry good ...   �

[BeowulfTheGeat]

Yes, I do agree that releasing a sub-par cheap phone is a terrible idea. The Z3 is basically a Z30 in a different coat, though, which isn't too bad. I'm thinking of a phone that they can sell at cost for �199 cash. There are a lot of people here in the UK who will definitely go for a �199 BlackBerry phone.

Exactly what specs BlackBerry can put into such a phone for that price, I am not sure, but, again, I think the idea needs to be from the beginning that they have no intention of making a penny off of the thing as a device. They would make money from the apps, stickers, and advertising, etc., but it is really just about selling phones and building the user base.

The major retailers might not want to sell it, so I would look to give it exclusively to Carphone Warehouse. Their staff are the most neutral salepeople I've come across. They tend not to trash BlackBerry nearly as much as the others do. I know that the Canadian government is giving a bunch of money to Vodafone, but their staff are horrible. In every shop I've gone into, they have laughed or hissed at the idea of selling me a BlackBerry. That's a bit rich coming from a company voted the worst service provider in the UK, but that's what it is.

Posted via CB10

[BeowulfTheGeat]

I'll add that in pricing, the small margins make a huge difference for a lot of customers. Buying a phone - or shopping in general - activates all kinds of emotion and irrationality in people's brains. When they look at a BlackBerry device, and see that they can get the one the sales rep is pushing for the same price, it's a no brainer, literally. However, when they look at a price that is significantly lower, and have a friend who owns a BlackBerry 10 device and likes it, that's powerful too. In many cases they will save the cash and walk away with the BB.

I think the Classic (�350) is at the right price, because the business folks who will want it can afford it, and will consider it cheap. The Passport, should have been �499 instead of �529 on launch, but oh well. The Z30 was priced by a crazy person at �529 at the same time the new Galaxy came out at just about the same price. I have no idea what BlackBerry were thinking there. The Z10 was perhaps the worst, at �500+ at the same time the new iPhone and Galaxy were released. At �349 brand new, the Z10 would have sold quite well, in my view, but there is no way of proving that one either way now.

As a formula, I think BlackBerry need to make devices over the next 12 - 18 months that evade direct comparison. That means Passport-like devices that are so unique they can't be compared to anything else on the market, and Z3-like devices that can't be compared by both price and specs/apps at the same time. This way, we avoid a lot of the slaughter in the reviews by highly-biased media. You give the Z3 specs that compare to a �250 Android device, and sell it at �199. That's a more difficult one to manage, but, again, if the decision is made to literally sell it for zero profit, I think it can be done.

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

I'll add that in pricing, the small margins make a huge difference for a lot of customers. Buying a phone - or shopping in general - activates all kinds of emotion and irrationality in people's brains. When they look at a BlackBerry device, and see that they can get the one the sales rep is pushing for the same price, it's a no brainer, literally. However, when they look at a price that is significantly lower, and have a friend who owns a BlackBerry 10 device and likes it, that's powerful too. In many cases they will save the cash and walk away with the BB.

I think the Classic (�350) is at the right price, because the business folks who will want it can afford it, and will consider it cheap. The Passport, should have been �499 instead of �529 on launch, but oh well. The Z30 was priced by a crazy person at �529 at the same time the new Galaxy came out at just about the same price. I have no idea what BlackBerry were thinking there. The Z10 was perhaps the worst, at �500+ at the same time the new iPhone and Galaxy were released. At �349 brand new, the Z10 would have sold quite well, in my view, but there is no way of proving that one either way now.

As a formula, I think BlackBerry need to make devices over the next 12 - 18 months that evade direct comparison. That means Passport-like devices that are so unique they can't be compared to anything else on the market, and Z3-like devices that can't be compared by both price and specs/apps at the same time. This way, we avoid a lot of the slaughter in the reviews by highly-biased media. You give the Z3 specs that compare to a �250 Android device, and sell it at �199. That's a more difficult one to manage, but, again, if the decision is made to literally sell it for zero profit, I think it can be done.

Posted via CB10

Chen will tell you, he wants / needs to make money... :-)

The Rio is coming, with about the same specs you mention. And one "unique device" per year has also been stated as a plan of going forward by BBRY.

Selling devices at pretty much cost works for Google (see Nexus 4 et.al.), because they have advertising revenue and an ecosystem, but BlackBerry's consumer ecosystem is just not powerful enough to pull in these dollars at this stage. That's why Chen is going to sell the enterprise services (pun intended, BESt in class...), video conferencing, BES Cloud, etc.

There's more money in the short term and they are more likely to gain a significant market share than if dealing with fickle consumer tastes and the fad / app of the week...



�   2015 - already in full swing - berry good ...   �

[lnichols]

Yes, I do agree that releasing a sub-par cheap phone is a terrible idea. The Z3 is basically a Z30 in a different coat, though, which isn't too bad. I'm thinking of a phone that they can sell at cost for �199 cash. There are a lot of people here in the UK who will definitely go for a �199 BlackBerry phone.

Exactly what specs BlackBerry can put into such a phone for that price, I am not sure, but, again, I think the idea needs to be from the beginning that they have no intention of making a penny off of the thing as a device. They would make money from the apps, stickers, and advertising, etc., but it is really just about selling phones and building the user base.

The major retailers might not want to sell it, so I would look to give it exclusively to Carphone Warehouse. Their staff are the most neutral salepeople I've come across. They tend not to trash BlackBerry nearly as much as the others do. I know that the Canadian government is giving a bunch of money to Vodafone, but their staff are horrible. In every shop I've gone into, they have laughed or hissed at the idea of selling me a BlackBerry. That's a bit rich coming from a company voted the worst service provider in the UK, but that's what it is.

Posted via CB10

Z3 is not a Z30 at all. Z30 SOC is by far superior. More RAM. Build is purely BlackBerry where you can tell the Z3 is made by someone else (Foxconn). If BlackBerry had launched Bb10 on the Z30 and not the the Z10, they would probably be sitting better now, and I owned the Z10.

Posted via CB10

[BeowulfTheGeat]

Just a quick thought that came to me. I really think BlackBerry should make a bid to sponsor Chelsea Football Club. Their decision to sponsor the Mercedes team was a good one, and a Chelsea deal would be even better. They are currently, and perhaps ironically, sponsored by Samsung, but that contract has run out and they are looking for a new deal. I don't know if BlackBerry have the money for such a deal, but it would be an amazing advertising opportunity.

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

Just a quick thought that came to me. I really think BlackBerry should make a bid to sponsor Chelsea Football Club. Their decision to sponsor the Mercedes team was a good one, and a Chelsea deal would be even better. They are currently, and perhaps ironically, sponsored by Samsung, but that contract has run out and they are looking for a new deal. I don't know if BlackBerry have the money for such a deal, but it would be an amazing advertising opportunity.

Posted via CB10

All players would have to commit using only BB10 / BBM in public. Otherwise there's no deal. No Galaxies in the locker room and funky tweets from iPhones... :-)

�   2015 - already in full swing - berry good ...   �

[BeowulfTheGeat]

Ha. I wonder what the deal is currently - whether players have any incentive to carry Samsung devices in public...

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

Ha. I wonder what the deal is currently - whether players have any incentive to carry Samsung devices in public...

Posted via CB10

No more Alicia Keys -style debacles. I'd rather prefer no sponsoring than sponsoring gone bad with negative publicity. BlackBerry will need to make sure this doesn't happen anymore. Don't give the vultures any fodder...

�   2015 - already in full swing - berry good ...   �

[BeowulfTheGeat]

That's very true. I think a sports deal with one of the top clubs in the world is a different thing than the celebrity mascot thing, though. Like the Mercedes deal, Chelsea would be a deal with a top franchise with huge global exposure - and no one has to actually say anything or do anything creative lol.

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

That's very true. I think a sports deal with one of the top clubs in the world is a different thing than the celebrity mascot thing, though. Like the Mercedes deal, Chelsea would be a deal with a top franchise with huge global exposure - and no one has to actually say anything or do anything creative lol.

Posted via CB10

Chelsea?

We should get Fistmaster in here, LOL :-)

�   Telstra + Classic, Optus + PP, AT&T + PP , Verizon + Classic... why the mix, Mr. Fix?   �

[MollyMorton]

Well, I'll drop a line in here, and come back to voice my views on the good bad and ugly. I think it's far more more useful to have no limits on discussion or debate. Bad arguments can be defeated in open debate, and good arguments can become better ones. Feel free to join in.


Posted via CB10

[MollyMorton]

Look, let's open things up a bit. Trolls and goblins and orcs are welcome, along with BlackBerry fans who also have worries, concerns, or anything else to talk about. I think it's a bit to focus only on the positive and welcome as many problem arguments as possible as I can come up with the sunshine stories myself.

I, for one, am concerned that BlackBerry's trending incompetence with general consumers (PR and marketing/advertising, etc) will continue to be a drag on the company as a whole. That doesn't mean I am a mystical creature. I just think it's been an obvious problem. Anyone think BlackBerry have spent time trying to address this, starting internally?

Posted via CB10

[3MIKE]

Look, let's open things up a bit. Trolls and goblins and orcs are welcome, along with BlackBerry fans who also have worries, concerns, or anything else to talk about. I think it's a bit to focus only on the positive and welcome as many problem arguments as possible as I can come up with the sunshine stories myself.

I, for one, am concerned that BlackBerry's trending incompetence with general consumers (PR and marketing/advertising, etc) will continue to be a drag on the company as a whole. That doesn't mean I am a mystical creature. I just think it's been an obvious problem. Anyone think BlackBerry have spent time trying to address this, starting internally?

Posted via CB10

Before BlackBerry starts to do some marketing it has to have a good foundation and starting with BES and by concurring back enterprises I think then, it will be time to win back consumers.

[MollyMorton]

I've heard that argument, and I do agree that they need to focus on a specific, and smaller market for now, but one of the problems they have faced is that their unpopularity in the consumer space, and their damaged brand image in general, has made their enterprise goals more difficult to reach. Just look at all the complaint posts about 'FUD', etc. Yes, we could rants and cry about 'FUD', and curse the masses for 'doing what they are told' and not being able to think for themselves, etc., but that's the same thing people have been saying about the general public since the beginning of democratic civilisations. It's not going to change lol.

The 'masses' are not going to wake up one morning and decide to start making all their purchasing decisions using only logic and reason. Besides, if they all just do what they are told, why don't they do what BlackBerry tell them to do and buy their products?

Even the enterprise markets haven't simply nodded their heads and don't what they are told by BB. Somehow or some way, BlackBerry need to fix their image in 2015, and stamp out the general trend of BlackBerry bashing in the media or general culture. One way of doing that is buy focusing on enterprise and sticking to phones like the Classic and Passport that are designed for a specific audience, and BlackBerry have don't a good job there. The other thing they also need to to, is come at things from the other side and kill off some of the negativity from the consumer side, thereby making enterprise progress less difficult. What we are seeing is a lot of migration in enterprise away from BlackBerry device and onto Apple and Android. That's okay to an extent if they are also using BES, but it's really not ideal.

Posted via CB10

[fishlove73]

My very simple perspective as a smartphone user since 2006. Socially...BlackBerry has it ...Facebook, Twitter, linked in ..any social app I want.

Apps..lacking, but I made the compromise on apps in exchange for not giving my info to Google or Apple and being able to control app permissions without having to root or jailbreak a device and risk bricking it. If I want to share my info I can...if not I can lock it down. Between BlackBerry World and Amazon I have plenty and at least 5 new apps are coming every week.
Specs...Do I have a 50mp camera?..no..do I need one? No...I'm not a professional photographer. And I honestly can't tell the dif between a 5 and 8mp camera. But I will say I have a z10....and yet somehow it does everything faster and better than my s3...I have time shift which is nice and my photos are clear...z30 and passport they are even better.
Gesture and hub is better and faster than tap tap tap, buggies, tap tap which has been my experience with droids since the beginning.

Now...one feature is missed from when I owned an iphone....Facetime...that program simply rocks...not enough for me to get another iphone...but it is a nice feature.

Blackberry does lack marketing...Apple and Droid will play a cool alternative song and show some hotties and all of a sudden every teenager wants one and they don't give a crap about privacy until it's too late when naked pics of their girlfriends can't be removed from G+...just look a facebook...everyone thinks they are a rock star and special in their own little world...even though they are not and are being used by corporate data mining without even caring or realizing it.

Carrier...BlackBerry just needs to get phones in stores, regardless if anyone buys them...there are a lot of people who dislike g+ and Google keeps trying to suck em into it at every turn. IPhone I cloud with celeb photo leaks and thinking people actually want to give their fingerprint to that stuff is just silly. I get comments on my z10( and it's even old) saying " well I didn't know blackberry could do that?"

OS... out of the 3..iOS and BlackBerry are the most stable and fluid..just a fact. Every Droid I owned except for 2.2 and kit kat had bugs..including the new lollipop which stinks...inho.
In the states at least..if I call blackberry corporate...someone actually answers the phone listens to suggestions and helps me if I need it...other phones like Apple and android..i don't get that personal response and if I do its similar to the old Dell days where you call...and get broken un-understadable broken English. Now Apple does have a store in urban areas here in the states, but the employee's are far from genius's.

Why would blackberry come out with new phones and a new OS and a new Link/blend if they were not interested in consumers?... I have heard this question on here repeatedly and I suspect it's just about managing cash.
Marketing, Some more apps and stocking carriers would be a good start.

There are hard core niche users like me who like Blackberry, like privacy and no buggies in the software....more marketing and recruiting developers would go a longway to build this company to where it once was.


Music and entertainment...it works, good enough for me I get music off YouTube and I don't have to pay for I tunes...and I can listen to my faves while using my BlackBerry as a netflix remote...at the same time with no lag or bugs.

Posted via the pure awesomeness of blackberry.

[3MIKE]

and BlackBerry have don't a good job there. The other thing they also need to to, is come at things from the other side and kill off some of the negativity from the consumer side, thereby making enterprise progress less difficult. What we are seeing is a lot of migration in enterprise away from BlackBerry device and onto Apple and Android. That's okay to an extent if they are also using BES, but it's really not ideal.

Posted via CB10

The first thing you should do is do like YOU said clearly; is stop posting negatively about BlackBerry !

[MollyMorton]

I've never owned an iPhone or Android, so all that is interesting. I agree with you in thinking that BlackBerry do just need to get a few phones back into stores. Obviously it depends on what the phones are. Passport and Classic are safe because they are what they are and can't really be compared to anything Apple or Android. They've continued to hold off the release of the Z3 or whatever they will call it in the Europe and America, which is interesting. I suppose they know they don't want another avalanche of articles and reviews slaughtering the brand. I'm interested in seeing what ends up getting released as a cheap touchscreen when it finally happens.

Posted via CB10

[3MIKE]

I've never owned an iPhone or Android, so all that is interesting. I agree with you in thinking that BlackBerry do just need to get a few phones back into stores. Obviously it depends on what the phones are. Passport and Classic are safe because they are what they are and can't really be compared to anything Apple or Android. They've continued to hold off the release of the Z3 or whatever they will call it in the Europe and America, which is interesting. I suppose they know they don't want another avalanche of articles and reviews slaughtering the brand. I'm interested in seeing what ends up getting released as a cheap touchscreen when it finally happens.

Posted via CB10

The first thing you should do is do like YOU said clearly; is stop posting negatively about BlackBerry ![/QUOTE]

[MollyMorton]

The first thing you should do is do like YOU said clearly; is stop posting negatively about BlackBerry !

[/QUOTE]

Putting aside the incorrect semicolon use, I do want to make something clear:

THIS PARTICULAR THREAD WELCOMES ALL COMMENTS, AND DOES NOT WISH TO BE A CHANTING ROOM. IT IS FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT FRIGHTENED OF WORDS. ALL VIEWS ARE WELCOME, AND PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ATTACK ANYONE'S ARGUMENTS RATIONALLY AND RESPECTFULLY.

To put something to you directly, what exactly in the post you responded to was 'negative about BlackBerry?'

Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you give me your view as to whether you think restricting our thinking and our consideration to only 'positive' news and perspectives is a good thing for potential BB or BBRY investors, or fans in general?

If you like thinking like a communist, by all means enjoy one of the other threads that may be better suited to you, but if you can embrace discussion with a wide range of views, opinions, etc., please do come back and share your thoughts.

Posted via CB10