[crazigee]

Just reading an article from the National Post about how both Apple and Google have recently announced that with their new operating systems they won't be able to bypass the users passcode and access the phone at the request of the government.

Largely lost in the hullabaloo about the release of Apple's new operating system -iOS8 - was the company's boast on its website that with the new system, Apple can't bypass a user's passcode and therefore "it's not technically feasible for us to respond to government warrants for the extraction of this data..."

With its older systems, Apple could unlock some content on devices for police bearing warrants, but not anymore.

The next day, Google made a similar announcement about its new Android operating system, due for release next month.

Considering BlackBerry's focus on data security I'm curious if this is something that BlackBerry will be including in a future update or if it is something that already exists for BB10?

I think it's also worthwhile discussing whether this is a step forward or backward. While nobody wants prying eyes, is it really a good thing that even with a warrant the manufacturer wouldn't be able to access the phone? What if this was for some terrorism matter or some other type of crime? Would it not be a good thing then for there to be a way to access the device, providing there is a warrant?

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[insandouts]

Just reading an article from the National Post about how both Apple and Google have recently announced that with their new operating systems they won't be able to bypass the users passcode and access the phone at the request of the government.

Largely lost in the hullabaloo about the release of Apple's new operating system -iOS8 - was the company's boast on its website that with the new system, Apple can't bypass a user's passcode and therefore "it's not technically feasible for us to respond to government warrants for the extraction of this data..."

With its older systems, Apple could unlock some content on devices for police bearing warrants, but not anymore.

The next day, Google made a similar announcement about its new Android operating system, due for release next month.

Considering BlackBerry's focus on data security I'm curious if this is something that BlackBerry will be including in a future update or if it is something that already exists for BB10?

I think it's also worthwhile discussing whether this is a step forward or backward. While nobody wants prying eyes, is it really a good thing that even with a warrant the manufacturer wouldn't be able to access the phone? What if this was for some terrorism matter or some other type of crime? Would it not be a good thing then for there to be a way to access the device, providing there is a warrant?

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

The FBI Director is not happy and blasted both companies
FBI director blasts Apple and Google for offering encryption | The Verge

[Troy Tiscareno]

Google has had encryption available on the phone since 2010 at least, and Apple added it a couple years ago. BB10 has also had it since it was released. But on all of these platforms, it was OFF by default, and the end-user had to choose to enable device encryption. When you do this, you are forced to use a complex password to unlock your phone, which many people don't like, so many who try encryption end up turning it off so they can go back to a simple code, or no lock code at all.

The difference is that the new iOS and Android L will both turn encryption ON by default, so unless people manually turn it off, their devices will be encrypted. Once encrypted, the only way to decrypt is to know the password. Otherwise, if you forget it, you have to wipe the device.

[BCITMike]

The FBI Director is not happy and blasted both companies
FBI director blasts Apple and Google for offering encryption | The Verge

I suddenly see Microsoft suddenly winning more contracts in the near future... heh

[anon(832122)]

Just reading an article from the National Post about how both Apple and Google have recently announced that with their new operating systems they won't be able to bypass the users passcode and access the phone at the request of the government.

Largely lost in the hullabaloo about the release of Apple's new operating system -iOS8 - was the company's boast on its website that with the new system, Apple can't bypass a user's passcode and therefore "it's not technically feasible for us to respond to government warrants for the extraction of this data..."

With its older systems, Apple could unlock some content on devices for police bearing warrants, but not anymore.

The next day, Google made a similar announcement about its new Android operating system, due for release next month.

Considering BlackBerry's focus on data security I'm curious if this is something that BlackBerry will be including in a future update or if it is something that already exists for BB10?

I think it's also worthwhile discussing whether this is a step forward or backward. While nobody wants prying eyes, is it really a good thing that even with a warrant the manufacturer wouldn't be able to access the phone? What if this was for some terrorism matter or some other type of crime? Would it not be a good thing then for there to be a way to access the device, providing there is a warrant?

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

Good question. I guess the issue is whether or not the government could guarantee that a warrant would always be obtained and therefore no one's rights abused by other sections of the government (and we know they can't guarantee that). The FBI should he speaking out against invasions of privacy rather than people exercising their right to privacy.

Posted via the CrackBerry App

[crazigee]

Google has had encryption available on the phone since 2010 at least, and Apple added it a couple years ago. BB10 has also had it since it was released. But on all of these platforms, it was OFF by default, and the end-user had to choose to enable device encryption. When you do this, you are forced to use a complex password to unlock your phone, which many people don't like, so many who try encryption end up turning it off so they can go back to a simple code, or no lock code at all.

The difference is that the new iOS and Android L will both turn encryption ON by default, so unless people manually turn it off, their devices will be encrypted. Once encrypted, the only way to decrypt is to know the password. Otherwise, if you forget it, you have to wipe the device.

Does BlackBerry have a way to bypass the user's encryption?

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[mithrazor]

Does BlackBerry have a way to bypass the user's encryption?

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

Curios to know this as well

Posted via CB10

[crazigee]

Curios to know this as well

Posted via CB10

I suspect they do. If this was a security features that BlackBerry already has they would have said something when Apple and Google made their announcement. They would have said something along the lines of, "BlackBerry had had that feature for years. Apple and Google are playing catch up. "

Since they didn't say anything I tend to think they have a back door. And that might be a good thing under certain circumstances, such as a major criminal investigation.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[bobshine]

This password bypass is all smoke... I mean governments typically install spywares on phones and computers to sneak on them.

Also regarding BlackBerry security, remember when BlackBerry was banned by some countries cause it was impossible for the government to sneak into the device??? That should tell you something.

Posted via CB10

[crazigee]

This password bypass is all smoke... I mean governments typically install spywares on phones and computers to sneak on them.

Also regarding BlackBerry security, remember when BlackBerry was banned by some countries cause it was impossible for the government to sneak into the device??? That should tell you something.

Posted via CB10

Wow. Conspiracy theories?

BlackBerry was banned because the government had no way to "sneak a look". We're discussing whether BlackBerry has a way in, with a valid warrant as part of a criminal investigation.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[bobshine]

Wow. Conspiracy theories?

BlackBerry was banned because the government had no way to "sneak a look". We're discussing whether BlackBerry has a way in, with a valid warrant as part of a criminal investigation.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

Recall that the reason why BlackBerry was banned was that they couldn't provide a way in for the government. Comes down to saying that BlackBerry didn't have a way in.

Posted via CB10

[anon(832122)]

Recall that the reason why BlackBerry was banned was that they couldn't provide a way in for the government. Comes down to saying that BlackBerry didn't have a way in.

Posted via CB10

Didn't BB provide that access to some of the governments that requested it?

Posted via the CrackBerry App

[zocster]

Moved to apple subforums for now...

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

[crazigee]

Didn't BB provide that access to some of the governments that requested it?

Posted via the CrackBerry App

It was that they "wouldn't" give unfettered access to BlackBerry servers for illegitimate purposes. This was in non-western countries that wanted to monitor their own citizens.

That's far different was a criminal case with a legitimate warrant to access individual BlackBerry devices to gather evidence for a criminal case. We're also talking about whether BlackBerry "can" bypass a user's encryption, not whether they are willing to.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[crazigee]

Didn't BB provide that access to some of the governments that requested it?

Posted via the CrackBerry App

I think they did, but I think that was to BlackBerry records and servers. I don't know if that was to the user's device itself.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[insandouts]

Also regarding BlackBerry security, remember when BlackBerry was banned by some countries cause it was impossible for the government to sneak into the device??? That should tell you something.

Posted via CB10

The NSA sneaks into everything as it has been proven many times. To think that BB is immune, it is pretty stupid.

[insandouts]

Recall that the reason why BlackBerry was banned was that they couldn't provide a way in for the government. Comes down to saying that BlackBerry didn't have a way in.

Posted via CB10

Yeah right...users thought the same way about Hushmail that claimed they could not decry-pt users email then when a FBI warrant was served, all of a sudden they had a way.

[nah.uhh]

I think they did, but I think that was to BlackBerry records and servers. I don't know if that was to the user's device itself.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

I remember reading BlackBerry opened up a "solution" for ALL carriers
Let me see if I can pull it up

Couldn't find the press release, but here's BlackBerry page that says that BlackBerry isn't actively trying to protect consumers and will bow to the whatever the norm is.

Yup, definitely wasn't just for India etc.
Not sure about physical device access though, but they shouldn't - since that is the new norm.


http://us.blackberry.com/company/abo...ic-policy.html

Read section on lawful access. .. tried posting the text but can't seem to get it to post in plain text instead of html

Attachment 300818
Attachment 300810

[BCITMike]

I remember reading BlackBerry opened up a "solution" for ALL carriers
Let me see if I can pull it up

Couldn't find the press release, but here's BlackBerry page that says that BlackBerry isn't actively trying to protect consumers and will bow to the whatever the norm is.

Yup, definitely wasn't just for India etc.
Not sure about physical device access though, but they shouldn't - since that is the new norm.


Public Policy and Government Relations - US

Read section on lawful access. .. tried posting the text but can't seem to get it to post in plain text instead of html

Attachment 300818
Attachment 300810

Did you read what you are referring to? This quote is in direct opposition to your claim:

BlackBerry lawful access principles

The carriers’ capabilities are limited to the strict context of lawful access and national security requirements as governed by the country’s judicial oversight and rules of law.
The carriers’ capabilities must be technology- and vendor-neutral, allowing no greater access to BlackBerry consumer services than the carriers and regulators already impose on BlackBerry’s competitors and other similar communications technology companies.

TL;DR: They do the minimum they are legally required (keyword) to do in each Country, and they don't do anything above what their competitors must also do.

[nah.uhh]

Did you read what you are referring to? This quote is in direct opposition to your claim:



TL;DR: They do the minimum they are legally required (keyword) to do in each Country, and they don't do anything above what their competitors must also do.

Exactly what I said. Did YOU read?
I said BlackBerry will bow to whatever the norm is, which is the same as to say " They do the minimum they are legally required " but "they don't do anything above what their competitors must also do"

Which part don't you understand? What claim are you referring to?

YES, tthe lawful access principal to access consumer bis, bbid and/or bbm etc. Is not just a solution for India.

Is BlackBerry actively trying to protect consumers? Hell no. "Well, we'll do it if google does it" sound secure to you?

[A_Aviator_A]

The future play by the NSA, FBI and other authorities is no longer to try and directly decrypt people's phones. The new strategy is to back-door into phones by using the agreed upon terms of access which almost everyone gives to Facebook LinkedIn, Whatapp, twitter, instagram and other services when you install these services on your devices. There are reasons why Facebook is worth $100 per user even though 99.9% of all its users will never spend $100 through the website.

Security is like a chain, to quote the timeless cliche, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

My $0.02.

[crazigee]

The future play by the NSA, FBI and other authorities is no longer to try and directly decrypt people's phones. The new strategy is to back-door into phones by using the agreed upon terms of access which almost everyone gives to Facebook LinkedIn, Whatapp, twitter, instagram and other services when you install these services on your devices. There are reasons why Facebook is worth $100 per user even though 99.9% of all its users will never spend $100 through the website.

Security is like a chain, to quote the timeless cliche, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

My $0.02.

Forgetting about the conspiracy theories that are listed. Facebook is $100 per user due to advertising, not just how much each individual user is spending.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

[A_Aviator_A]

Forgetting about the conspiracy theories that are listed. Facebook is $100 per user due to advertising, not just how much each individual user is spending.

Posted using my Z10 via CB10

How many facebook or twitter ads have you clicked on in your lifetime?

There's a great documentary available on NETFLIX called "Terms and Conditions". I recommend anyone watch it. It is about the various partnerships formed between governments and today's social media websites to bypass privacy laws in order to access your data. You see, governments cant access your data without warrant, however if you consent to FB accessing it, nothing legally prevents the government from forming a partnership with FB to gain access as well.

We're not talking conspiracy theories anymore, we're talking about how the government uses existing infrastructures in today's world. Why is it every time something like this is pointed out, some of you dismiss it as "conspiracy theory"? Is it honestly that hard to believe?

[insandouts]

How many facebook or twitter ads have you clicked on in your lifetime?

There's a great documentary available on NETFLIX called "Terms and Conditions". I recommend anyone watch it. It is about the various partnerships formed between governments and today's social media websites to bypass privacy laws in order to access your data. You see, governments cant access your data without warrant, however if you consent to FB accessing it, nothing legally prevents the government from forming a partnership with FB to gain access as well.

We're not talking conspiracy theories anymore, we're talking about how the government uses existing infrastructures in today's world. Why is it every time something like this is pointed out, some of you dismiss it as "conspiracy theory"? Is it honestly that hard to believe?

and those partnerships exist with Blackberry too. Do you really think that the US government cut Blackberry a break?

[BCITMike]

Exactly what I said. Did YOU read?
I said BlackBerry will bow to whatever the norm is, which is the same as to say " They do the minimum they are legally required " but "they don't do anything above what their competitors must also do"

Which part don't you understand? What claim are you referring to?

YES, tthe lawful access principal to access consumer bis, bbid and/or bbm etc. Is not just a solution for India.

Is BlackBerry actively trying to protect consumers? Hell no. "Well, we'll do it if google does it" sound secure to you?

but here's BlackBerry page that says that BlackBerry isn't actively trying to protect consumers and will bow to the whatever the norm is

That is just a wrong statement. "Isn't" is incorrect. "Required" isn't "bowing". If I follow the law every day by not committing crimes, and I "bowing" down to the law?

Anyways, ignoring this.