[Semantics]

Agreed. Most folks don't want to make a hobby out of their phone. they just want to use it, and get on with their lives.

How is rooting your phone making a hobby out of it? Takes 20-30 mins tops to root a phone and flash a ROM. Then you never have to flash again if you don't want. You can even keep it bone stock and just flash a kernel for superior battery life. There is a reason that people are selling root services on CL and the like, people want better battery life, and they want free hotspots.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

The EVO had horrible battery problems out of the gate. I think you need to understand why HTC has a bunch of Fanboys, and I guess I'm one, I'd never buy a non HTC Android phone for the simple fact that XDA is the greatest developer site on the web. Unrooted EVO went from 6 hours battery time to over 30 with custom ROM's and kernel tweaks. I'd much rather have a phone that is going to be supported like mad, and not have a bs locked bootloader and just wait for kernel tweaks to give me the battery life that HTC didn't implement.

If you buy an HTC device and don't plan to root it, then I can see it would be a frustrating experience and you would probably need spare/extended batteries.

HTC is adding a bigger battery in the EVO 3D, but again, I'm sure it will suck and I'll just root my phone and go back to getting excellent battery life. There is no substitution for having the support of the best dev community for Android in the world. And though Moto is making some killer phones, their admission that they will never make a phone with an unlocked bootloader ensures I'll never own one.

This is EXACTLY how I feel.

[scorpiodsu]

I did address that in my post a little bit.

Yes you did and I agree with what users that don't root have to do. And I just don't like the fact that people have to go purchase extended batteries, adding to their cost of the device. Let's be honest, to get a good extended battery you have to spend a decent amount. Can't get a cheap one off ebay for 10 bucks and expect it to work. So it can potentially have a 200 or 250 dollar device 300+ just to be able to use it all day. It's either buy one or your phone will die unless you know how to manage the system (which most users don't). And personally, I don't like that. But that's just me. I have nothing against the platform. I like Android a lot but the manufacturers need to do something about the power consumption.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

Yes you did and I agree with what users that don't root have to do. And I just don't like the fact that people have to go purchase extended batteries, adding to their cost of the device. Let's be honest, to get a good extended battery you have to spend a decent amount. Can't get a cheap one off ebay for 10 bucks and expect it to work. So it can potentially have a 200 or 250 dollar device 300+ just to be able to use it all day. And personally, I don't like that. But that's just me. I have nothing against the platform. I like Android a lot but the manufacturers need to do something about the power consumption.

Yes they do... I see some manufacturers slapping in bigger batteries but I rather see the chips with fast speeds that have low power consumption

[scorpiodsu]

How is rooting your phone making a hobby out of it? Takes 20-30 mins tops to root a phone and flash a ROM. Then you never have to flash again if you don't want. You can even keep it bone stock and just flash a kernel for superior battery life. There is a reason that people are selling root services on CL and the like, people want better battery life, and they want free hotspots.

I agree. I don't think it's a hobby but it can be if you don't find a ROM that works the way you need it to. For many people they spend a lot of time looking for the best one. While I think many are like you described, flash probably 1 ROM that works better than the stock and stick to that. I know for me I flashed a couple ROMs on my EVO. A couple with Sense still in it and things to improve battery life and stock Android. And that was it for me.

Here's my question: How come the manufacturers don't tweak the stock ROMs on the devices to give better battery life and some of the other things that flashed ROMs can do? I mean the best ROMs don't take away much from device and add great benefits. It seems the manufacturers should be able to do these things as well so that customers who don't root (or have an idea what it is) can experience a great device and those that like to root and flash can experiment as they want. What do you think?

[scorpiodsu]

Yes they do... I see some manufacturers slapping in bigger batteries but I rather see the chips with fast speeds that have low power consumption

Some do but not all. HTC put out a phone almost a year after the EVO with boosted specs with a slightly smaller battery. Now of course, the processor in the TB is supposed to be more efficient than the EVO to offset battery usage but still..... do something with your devices to preserve it. It obviously can be done since developers achieve it with all the custom ROMs. This is why Apple always exceed everyone in user experience. Whether they are Nazis or not about their platform LOL (we can all agree or disagree) but they care about the stuff that most people care about. They've been constantly working on technology to improve battery life. Remember when the original iPhone came out? Battery was terrible. Now use the iPhone 4. It's arguable that many manufacturers haven't improved in this area from 2 years or even a year ago.

I mean go on Android Central and they have thread dedicated to learning out to tweak your device to get better battery life. And I know it's different depending on the user but just the fact they have these threads over there is ridiculous. I just don't see why people have to worry or think about these things. Have to shut off all connections to the device in order for it to last and just simply not something a basic user should have to deal with. And some of the tips are just dumb:

Turn Vibrate off.... really? Bump charge? Come on man. Just craziness.

Thunderbolt Problems & Solutions Tracker + Battery Tips (3/23 Update) - Android Forums

[ThaGeNeCySt]

The size of the Thunderbolt battery was ALWAYS a head scratcher to me... I'm not a manufacturer so I don't know anything about the process, material costs, staying in budget, etc... but I always figured... if you put out a super phone, and the main complaint is battery life... then the next phone that seems similar to the previously released phone, you raise the specs and either keep the same size battery or up it (regardless of how much more efficient the CPU is).

At least I wish that's how HTC worked... the EVO 3D coming with a 1700+ mAH battery is giving me slight hope though... but it doesn't kill my enthusiasm for HTC though... thanks to XDA-Devs

[avt123]

I agree with you guys, XDA is awesome. The thing is, you should not have to rely on a third party, non-official software support in order to get good battery life out of your device. There manufacturers should be including a battery that should at least last a full day with light to moderate use, and most are not. Especially with 4G tech since we know as of right now it does a number to the battery.

I however will buy a device even if I know it has bad battery life but know it will have good developer support. It is extremely easy to load root and flash ROMs/kernels.

Thank god for XDA though because if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't even consider HTC devices when I research future devices to buy.

[papped]

^^ Problem is all the android manufacturers are cutting each others margins every month... There won't be any margins left to put in larger batteries.

[scorpiodsu]

Come on, this is funny

[howarmat]

lmao yes it is!

[avt123]

^^ Problem is all the android manufacturers are cutting each others margins every month... There won't be any margins left to put in larger batteries.

Then Google needs to enter the game and release their own device. A device not made by Samsung, not made by HTC, not made by Moto, but made by Google to really set the standard. I have total confidence that Google can enter the manufacturing market. They have the cash, and they can easily find the talent if they don't have it already.

If the manufacturers can't create devices with decent battery life, and Android start seeing a decline because people do not want phones that only last 6-8 hours, Google will step in a do something.

[papped]

If the manufacturers can't create devices with decent battery life, and Android start seeing a decline because people do not want phones that only last 6-8 hours, Google will step in a do something.

It's not that simple though... Manufacturers are playing spec leapfrog due to consumer demand. Impossible for battery tech to keep up with that... Just wait till you are running 4g network data on a 4.6" screen + 3d + dual core (probably quad core in 2012)....

Even if google made a device with better battery life, better battery life comes at a sacrifice, and consumers are not prioritizing battery life over everything else...

Either you fatten the device, increase costs, and increase weight with larger batteries, or you tone down the specs... You can't have both. Considering how highly aesthetics are valued (reference ip4 + ipad2), this will not happen... It simply won't.

The spec leapfrog game will continue at the cost of battery life, displays will get larger, and network speeds will increase. All killing battery life... And battery tech isn't progressing at even 1/100th the rate...

[avt123]

It's not that simple though... Manufacturers are playing spec leapfrog due to consumer demand. Impossible for battery tech to keep up with that... Just wait till you are running 4g network data on a 4.6" screen + 3d + dual core (probably quad core in 2012)....

Spec leapfrogging doesn't matter when you have the complete Google experience. I am sure Google would market their device seriously. You have a device complete designed and made by Google, the support and upgrade will be much better.

Even if google made a device with better battery life, better battery life comes at a sacrifice, and consumers are not prioritizing battery life over everything else...

What sacrifice? Vanilla Android is known to run better than all of these devices with skins. Vanilla Android has good battery life.

Either you fatten the device, increase costs, and increase weight with larger batteries, or you tone down the specs... You can't have both. Considering how highly aesthetics are valued (reference ip4 + ipad2), this will not happen... It simply won't.

Why? Phones are starting to get bigger and bigger. Devices like the Bionic and Atrix are packing proper batteries. I'm sure Google can do the same.

The spec leapfrog game will continue at the cost of battery life, displays will get larger, and network speeds will increase. All killing battery life... And battery tech isn't progressing at even 1/100th the rate...

I understand this. I still feel that Google can make the experiences better for their OS if they created a device completely in house. Keep HTC the **** away from it because they can't make devices with battery life that is worth a damn without rooting. Keep Moto away because they will lock it down unless Google says no. Keep Samsung away because they basically **** everything up and just use nice hardware.

Their best bet if not to go in house would be to partner with Moto for Vanilla Android smartphones and make sure they stay unlocked, but even that doesn't matter because the majority of people do not root. Moto devices have the best battery life even with Moto Blur. I'm sure it can be even better stock. The Droid had pretty good battery life running stock Froyo.

[papped]

You're looking at it backwards though... that phone manufacturers drive consumer priorities...

Consumer priorities drive manufacturers... You can't fix it from the opposite end. If battery life were a priority, I don't think the HTC phones or iphone would be doing very well at all...

Also looking at the mah of the battery isn't exactly a direct indication... Different phones with completely different hardware and varying software drain differently. Packing a 1950mah battery for example can be an attempt to restore "passable" battery life to a device that insanely poor battery life on 1400mah or whatever... Doesn't exactly mean it's going to be "good" battery life just because it's a larger battery. And again "good" is subjective because of priorities... 5 hour battery life might be fine if you prefer insanely smooth 3d games 24/7 instead...

[avt123]

You're looking at it backwards though... that phone manufacturers drive consumer priorities...

Consumer priorities drive manufacturers... You can't fix it from the opposite end. If battery life were a priority, I don't think the HTC phones or iphone would be doing very well at all...

I really wouldn't include the iPhone in this discussion at all. Apple is a totally different animal. If all they created was a pager I'm sure it would still sell well.

If I'm not mistaken, HTC has the most Android models out, and has a flagship device on each carrier. HTC also makes the most attractive skin for Android.

I know specs are what drive consumers, but who is saying Google wouldn't be able to compete with the specs all while having a bigger battery than the rest like Moto is doing with the Atrix/Bionic. It really isn't that hard.

Also looking at the mah of the battery isn't exactly a direct indication... Different phones with completely different hardware and varying software drain differently. Packing a 1950mah battery for example can be an attempt to restore "passable" battery life to a device that insanely poor battery life on 1400mah or whatever... Doesn't exactly mean it's going to be "good" battery life just because it's a larger battery. And again "good" is subjective because of priorities... 5 hour battery life might be fine if you prefer insanely smooth 3d games 24/7 instead...

I understand this. But Vanilla Android is known to have better battery life. I believe the battery in the Droid X is 1500mah. it is able to get 15 hours of pretty heavy use stock. This is with Moto Blur which is known to be ****ty softare and always has useless **** running in the background. Moto also uses TI hardware.

If Google stays away from Qualcomm, it seems like sufficient battery life can be achieved.

[papped]

If google releases a competing phone with specs rivaling what is about to come out this year and significantly increases battery life, I will be thoroughly impressed (mostly because I know they won't...).

Dual core, 3d, 4.3" (or larger) qHD (or higher) screen, 4g network support, all with good battery life...

I wish anyone luck.